Many if not all porn stars will speak to how different porn sex is from regular sex. They'll talk about how it's not anywhere near as sexy and hot as real sex. We've seen ex-pornstars like Devon and Ashlynn Brooke state on blogs and interviews how they didn't really like working with "some strange man" (Ashlynn Brooke's words on a blog). And all of it should make sense to anybody with a brain. You think about what it's like on most porn sets and how they basically put whatever bloke into a shoot with a girl whether there is any attraction/chemistry there or not. You've got film crew people traipsing around the set where sex is happening. Directors yelling cut or yelling instructions on where to lay. The scenes are often shot in places that could only be described as tacky or uncomfortable (desks, cramped couches or worse). I myself would have a hard time really enjoying sex in such circumstances no matter how hot my partner was. But, here we have these beautiful girls showing up willing to get naked and fuck on camera. Might we be able to setup scenarios where there would be a much greater chance of the girl actually enjoying the sex? Sure, there are some limitations and not every scene will work no matter what you do. But couldn't directors create an environment and set of circumstances more conducive to hot sex than what mostly exists today? Here are some of my ideas: For one, let the girls not just have a "no" list of who they won't work with, but let them actually request actors. Companies can open their doors to new male talent. The ones who get to work are those who get picked by the girls. Not by the director. Major ego blow to most directors I'm sure. But, if a girl gets to pick the guy-and has a much bigger number of options to pick from-I think that would be a good start. Second, stop filming scenes in non-sexy environments. Any scene starting on a desk needs to end on a bed. You can have foreplay on a desk but then have them meet up later in bed. Scenes in empty warehouses..wtf?? That's not a sexy place to have sex except in very rare circumstances. Sex on stairways and on other tables. Same as the office stuff I mention above. Nobody fucks for very long on stares. After a little while, you just go up to a bed where it's 100 times more comfortable. Instead, there are so many sexy places you could film in which would enhance the scene. Third, use less invasive filming and editing techniques. Having a camera man standing on top of you and sticking his camera right on your genitals is not hot. Stick a couple cameras in the room and get out of the way. Interestingly enough, if you did this, part one above would be easier to do as well. Most directors say they don't want to hire new male talent because very few guys can "perform" like they want them to. Well, if you just put a guy in a room with a hot babe and said "go have sex" and that's it, I'm quite sure you'd have no problem finding guys who could do that. The problem comes when you as a director keep giving instructions on what to do how to move etc, yell cut at random times and have camera dudes walking up and sticking a camera in there. I think the above would be a good start and we'd see girls start to enjoy the sex more often. We keep saying we want girls to be "in to it" and yet we don't think about what they actually would be in to. Any other ideas? I'd be interested to hear from stars and directors as well if they read this.
Just picking up on these two ideas. First, I'm sure some companies do try to pair the women with men that they want to perform with. However, I think it safe to assume that the needs of the schedule come first. Second, from what I can tell, companies hate auditioning male talent. The ratio of success to failure is pathetic, so if they know somebody who can do the job they are going with him.
Well your preaching to the choir here. Been saying a lot of what you said for years. A lot of directors simply aren't interested in creating sex that is mostly comfortable and enjoyable. In truth I do think they are under pressure to not create scenes that often look the same, but putting people in uncomfortable positions, whether place or with other people, is hardly inducive to happy times. Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with trying places or positions out first, instead of just trying to adapt to everything.
Do the job? My point is "the job" should change a little. More natural sex rather than odd positioning to allow the camera to see every inch etc. If the job was "have sex with a hot girl while we film" it would be much easier. Problem is that's often not the job.
You might want to talk to Tony Comstock about that. Film doesn't play by your rules, it has rules of its own. Sure, if you're really, really good you can break the rules and make it work, but if you're that good why in God's name would you be shooting porn?
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 5:11PM
Ashlynn Brooke, to name a pornstar mentioned by the thread starter, never gave me the impression that she was enjoying herself on screen. Which is why, even though physically she was extremly attractive (based on what I find good looking), I never really got into her scenes. Maybe the solution is to give the scenes to the girls that either really enjoy porn sex (and look like it) or the ones who are good enough actors to make us think they are enjoying it. Of course the problem might be that finding attractive pornstars who love porn sex or can act like they do is difficult because they are rare commodities.
Bingo. I've found that a woman's looks (while still vital) aren't nearly as important to me as her actually liking porn sex. And this generally means that she is a natural submissive. The OP is right in that porn sex is different from real life sex but that's because it's not supposed to be real life sex. It's generally made to cater to people who want a fantasy. And that fantasy usually involves a woman who loves nasty, "vulgar" sex as much as many (I want to say most but that might offend some) men do. Porn sex doesn't need to change. They need to find women who enjoy it for what it is. But that will invariably mean there won't be as much porn and we will be watching the same women in every movie. I do think some of the men just shouldn't be making porn but as long as they can get hired, that's just my opinion.
well a good way to start out is by having young goodlooking male talent, to be frank there are many old and ugly male talent in porn which I suppose the girls wouldn't wanna touch if it wasn't for the $$$
To the OP, shit or get off the pot. If you know what needs to be done, start directing. Pretty much a no-brainer. Do you really think directors hang around ADT looking for advice? This thread is ridiculous. You can't just show up on any set, at any given time, and just have good enjoyable sex. It's just not gonna happen. Porn is about putting on a performance, plain and simple.
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Hesperus Deactivated User
49 Posts 8/11
Posted - Aug 29 2011 : 7:11PM
By definition, paying women for sex is a joke. Guaranteed to make them laugh. Wait, how does that explain all those female orgasms?
When there are so many directors who don't even bother to consider what porn stars actually enjoy, it's no wonder the scenes end up lackluster. Let's start by considering what they actually genuinely enjoy. I freely acknowledged there are some limitations or constraints that mean not all scenes will be hot. But, as long as we have ugly out of shape dudes being paired with hot girls, and have girls do things that simply aren't sexy, there's no chance the scene will actually be good.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Aug 29 2011 : 9:59PM
I'll jump on the bandwagon and say that Ashlynn Brook was just there for the paycheck.
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David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User
Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10
Posted - Aug 30 2011 : 10:04AM
Well if it was solely left to the starlets to choose which male talent they'd work with, there'd be alot less porn being made as it would probably be only a few guys (Manuel Ferrara and a couple of others,perhaps)that fit the bill. And these guys would probably burn out pretty quick under that kind of schedule.
While the OP has a couple good points, I think he forgets that the magic of ANY filmmaking is the magic of editing. See, when you have to stop, start, stop again, start again, and stop again... how do you really get into it? It's why there are so few guys who can actually do porn, and so many girls who don't enjoy scene sex as much as real sex. Real sex is spontaneous and crazy. Porn scene sex is scripted and gets tedious after a while. That said, my favorite scenes have been the ones where the director just roles the camera and lets whoever is there get down to it. :)
I think everyone feels they can tell if the girl is truly enjoying the sex vs the girls who don't but I tend to think some girls are just better performers than others and can look/act like they're more into it and there are girls who are truly into it but just don't emote in a way that shows that they are into it. There have been girls I thought were totally into the sex but once I heard them talk about it in a candid interview they admitted it's just a job to them and they are just trying to get through it. and there've been others who claim to love having sex on film but their performances don't come across that way. Nothing wrong with either senario but just shows that as a viewer we can't always be sure on who's really into it based on what we think we see on camera. Case in point...People say "let the girls pick the guys they want to work with" as if that automatically means those will be the best scenes. Consider this: I don't think I've ever seen a pornstar who's best work was done with her husband/boyfriend. You gotta figure the hubby would be the partner they like the most or are most comfortable with. Yet, I don't think most girls do their best work with their husband/boyfriends. I'm sure there are exceptions but from what I've seen it's almost never the case. Boyfriend...maybe. Husband...almost never.
You're kidding me, right? It's a business, stupid. Most of them are in it for the cash, and those are the ones who come and go, poof. Only a few - not many, but a few - actually don't mind being used like Kleenex, know the big paycheck is a plus, enjoy sex, and have the smarts to make a career out of this filthy work we make and watch - longevity is their choice, and it's by their own re-invention. Anyone who comes back after "retiring" from the biz needs the money, plain and simple. If I'm wrong, please - let me know. But I don't think I am.
Just because it's "business" doesn't mean the girl can't enjoy it. Yes, it's a job to get paid but it's entirely possible to like or be comfortable at your job. Police and firemen risk their lives doing their jobs but many of them like their job. Of course people are in porn to make money but that doesn't automatically mean that they can't enjoy performing or making porn. At the end of the day it's sex. If the girl isn't doing crazy stuff or working with a guy they don't like how horrible can it be having sex? Sure there's people around and lots of starting and stopping but in the grand scheme of things that's not a bad way to make a living. The thing that makes it bad is people being judgemental about it.
^ That's why I said "not many, but a few." Please take the time to read my entire missive again, please don't gloss over anything. Report to the principal's office for your tutor, too, as you cannot read very well. [mod edit: quote removed. please do not quote the post directly above your own. just use an "up arrow". thx. Oh, and please be nicer. No more calling people "stupid" and such. Read the ADT forum etiquette.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/4/2011 12:15:04 AM
Isn't that the OP's point. Don't have people around and lots of starting and stopping, in addition to the OP's suggestions, and maybe /more/ performers will enjoy themselves. It works for the studios/directors I prefer, and would like to see more effort put into realistic and passionate sex. Many studios now produce one continuous shoot. Next step, less intrusive camera work and less posing for the camera. There is a fine line between being judgemental and offering constructive criticism.
It's not so cut and dry. Most times the starts and stops are needed to give the performers a break or a chance to regroup. Sometimes the girls need to catch their breath, give their private parts a break, drink some water, or whatever. If the performers are doing an intense scene breaks/stops are needed to give performers a break to be able to keep the intensity up. If the scene calls for them to be agressive, intense and hard it would be hard to keep that up with out stopping every so often. It works both ways...not being able to stop could make shooting a hassle to deal with too. I don't believe having people around when shooting makes any difference to pornstars who've done more than 3 scenes. It's part of the gig and I'd imagine they get usedd to it very quickly.If there's a big enough audience to support that type of approach it would be good if some/more porn was shot as you describe but I don't think it would go over as well as you might think. I think most people like to see certain positions and that requires hitting certain poses to get them. If you take those positions away for the sake of not posing many people wouldn't like it at all. The same is true for the camerawork. Some people like to see certain angles and be up close to the action. What you're talking about would mean backing away from that and even perhaps doing more far away and medium shots. That's okay but many people like the closeup shots that gives them more intimate views of the action. Some/you may disagree but I think many people would consider what you're discribing as boring porn. You're taking away perhaps popular positions...or at least making it harder to shoot them in a way that makes them work. You're talking about having the camera back off and not capture certain angles and shots. That's not to say that it's the wrong way to make porn or that some people wouldn't like it but I just think it wouldn't be as big a hit as some might think it would.I wasn't talking about what's being disccussed here. I was talking about people who judge pornstars and make them feel bad about being in the porn industry. Those people are responsible for chasing away many performers from the porn biz and making many of the ones who stick around and make porn feel bad for doing it. Edited by - draxxx on 9/5/2011 10:00:37 AM
That's only if they do NOT open up the casting process. Yes, if you just stuck with the existing small talent pool, only a few would get selected. But, if you opened things up, brought basically random guys in and hang out and then the girls choose, it's different. It could be like speed dating that ends up with people fucking on camera lol.
Agree with the end. Who said porn sex HAS to involve stopping and starting? Obviously the ego maniacs filming/directing seem to think it does. Maybe they're full of shit.
Yeah I'm not necessarily saying I want to see girls bring in their boyfriends husbands etc. You can get that in amateur porn (ok, with shitty cameras and audio). My idea is to bring in dudes to "audition". They're guys that the girls don't necessarily know. Agreed that many times the hottest scenes are with people other than couples. Not always-i.e. Ashlynn Brooke's best scenes were with Tommy Gunn when they were together. But the idea of people meeting relatively recently, building up lust and then hooking up is hot. But as long as you have dudes like Mark Wood still boning the hottest babes, ya know the porn world doesn't have a clue.
Dufus, I get it. I really do. I think I acknowledged what you say in my OP. But, again, let's get back to the question. Might we (the porn producers) be able to take these hot girls who are having sex and, dare I say it, create an environment that they might actually enjoy? Again, I get that they are in porn for the money. We get to watch them get naked and fuck because they want to make money. They don't walk through "that door" without the almighty dollar being out there. But, might we be able to set things up to where they can also get off? Not always, obviously. But the bottom line is I see a lot of dudes that women simply don't find attractive and/or are creeps in porn. I see a lot of scenes shot in places that are neither sexy or comfortable. I'd just like to see things done in a way that are much more likely to get a girl off than most of what we see today. Thankfully, I see more and more of that type of porn being made. But, it's still like 10% of what's made today, with 90% being garbage. I'd like to see those numbers reverse. Obviously, bad porn will always be made. Just look at what people on the main forum here say they want: It's mostly all really bad, tasteless "sex". I'd like that shit to be the 10% instead of the hot sex (New Sensations Romance, some Sweet Sinner etc) being the small part.
Exactly. Exactly. And somebody elsewhere said I should watch amatuer porn. Well, that's fine. Except you end up with downright shitty, 1980s caliber camera and audio. And finding hot girls is much harder. You could take many of the attributes of amateur porn..and then have an HD camera (or two), quality audio and hot people and I'd love it.
Good sex requires nothing more than very simple breaks. Which could be left in the final scene. Sure, if one of the performers has to take a leak, we don't need to see that. But a girl that's enjoying sex and just needs to give her V a rest can always make out with or blow the guy for a while. If it's so intense that it hurts a girl, it's no good. Agreed that one can get used to having others in the room..to an extent. There are times the cameraman or director can be so invasive that it kills any real heat for anybody. Yes, I want more further away/medium shots. Doesn't have to be THAT far away. Just far enough that I can see all of a girl's body. And feel like the cameraman is not so close that it's distracting. Important point at the end about chasing away talent. If porn was shot in a way that was more natural and enjoyable, you'd be able to get a lot more talent to enter and stay in the industry. Why do you think many of the hottest girls in porn only do girl-girl or used to do only girl-girl? It's not because there's more money in girl-girl. Nor is it because the girls are full lesbians. It's because the way girl-girl porn is shot is more comfortable. In many ways.
I think more build up ( clit work, vibe) AND for cunt and ass, some deeply planted lube. Girls get turned off quick when its dry, and some can get excited if not but hard fucking IF they are lubed. Not every hot chick willing to fuck gets wet enough to fuck.
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Jan 1 2012 : 6:15PM
This is why I much prefer amateur titles over seeing prolific porn stars. I've noticed over the years how dry girls are in adult movies compared to past decades. It was common for girls to be wet during sex in the 70s and 80s and I hardly see it these days. Obviously they are not enjoying themselves but as other members point out, it is a business. The purpose of the business is to make money, crank out products that they can market and make a profit. The directors for the most part care nothing about whether a girl is enjoying herself. They should care because it will come across to the viewer and makes for good sex but they do not think that way. I think the Original Poster should take my approach and that is to look at Amateur titles or Pro-Am (professional/amateur) titles where you will still get much of the same directors barking out instructions, stops and restarts during scenes but they are more often less intrusive than what the seasoned porn stars have to endure repeatedly on set. The studio Platinum Media has a lot of amateur titles, which are hit or miss as far as quality but the girls are usually not jaded and seem to be enjoying themselves compared to what you see typically with porn stars. Regardless of what a girl looks like, if she is not into the sex you can clearly tell and it is a scene killer for me every time.
I agree with Peoples. I watch some Amateurs too, and even ugly ones with wet cunt lips, easily fucked, looks hot and the girls can take it harder and deeper, which the Amateurs usually have no trouble with. Could do comparisons to facial expressions with girls dry, and with girls wet.
Introducing Lady LorReign
Posted - Aug 28 2011 : 12:30PM