The current financial model dictates that for every scene the adult actors participate in, get paid in front a certain amount of money depending on the nature of their portrayed sexual acts. Although an adult actresses can get a pretty good deal of money in a given period, depending on her brand, the real earning profit is much less than most of them initially planned. If you calculate the taxes, the percentage to their agencies, the regular medical tests there is not much left to the actress. Taking count of the physical tiredness, the health risks, the fearsome competition and the severe social impact their job might have, it makes many of them regret their decision to expose their sexuality on sets. Of course there are alternative sources of income which in the course of time can become more important like photoshoots, club dancing, advertisement, webcaming, sex chatting and gift lists but it is still not their job main task as sensual performers. (Although many of them do practice, I do not personally consider escorting a part of an adult actress repertoire, since is not a part of the adult showbiz at all) So, I was wondering if a different financial model could give greater motivation to the adult models and a considerable push to the industry itself. One of this would be to give the models a percentage from the overall profit of a title release. This practice is not foreign to the show biz (musicians, mainstream acting). I do consider that it wouldn't be a bad idea. I think it would be fairer (considering the nature of the job) and might prompting them to make more scenes, to make better scenes and also to make an essential promotion to all social media and not think of it as a compulsive drudgery. What do you think? Alternatives?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 3 2017 : 4:38PM
Never going to happen. More likely is for the performer to produce her own scenes for her website, like Angela White did. But many performers say they are going to do their own site and it never materializes as they need to find a competent and relible webmaster and crew for shooting the scenes. Edited by - BlackSix on 2/5/2017 4:21:16 PM
I'm all for it but it will never happen. But yes think about it, let's say a girl gets paid $900 for a BG scene (standard industry rate). Out of that $900 15% or more goes to the agent, plus a girl has to pay $150-165 for her STD test. So that leaves the girl with literally less than $500 in pocket. Also to factor in transportation costs to get to and from the scene. And many amateur producers pay even less for BG, $500-700 It's shitty because so many girls think that they can get rich quick doing porn, but it never pans out that way at all. And on top of that, they're usually paying about $250 a week out of pocket to stay at a "model" house close to their shoots. Usually signing a multiple year contract with agencies (illegal) that stop getting them work after the first few months, usually leaving the girls broke and homeless. So all that being said I truly would like to see porn take a step in hollywoods direction and start paying their actors royalties. But it will never happen and the meatgrinder will just keep on grinding. Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO
As in royalties? Someone asked that question here. My answer is the same, and reflects what those have already said--yes, that would be ideal but it isn't going to happen. In a perfect world, porn would be valued and paid for in a manner equal to the amount it is valued and consumed in private. Sadly, this is not the case. As a result, workers are underpaid compared to the equivalent in mainstream, and people simply do not pay for porn. I am teaching porn studies and my students never even considered paying for porn until I told them that, in my class, they have to. If mainstream streaming sites started carrying adult titles, I truly believe the entire landscape would change. Then perhaps performers would get their due in the form of royalties. Ok, soapbox over. Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 2/3/2017 8:31:36 PM
^^ Thanks for the info, Maci! From a performer's POV it really adds to the debate. Just for our knowledge, what was your motivation when you started porn? ^ Gore Gore, you teach porn studies to students? What does it consist of and what kind of research do your students have to do? Edited by - lone wolf on 2/3/2017 8:31:56 PM
I tend to agree with everyone else that it will never happen but I think we also all agree that it would be nice if it did. The fact is that unless I am seriously mistaken than aren't most companies barely making a profit as it is and therefore it makes it very hard for them to redistribute profits when they don't really have any to begin with. About the only viable way that I can see porn performers get a piece of those profits is if a group of them got together, built their own network of sites, produce their own content and then share in the profits the network earns from memberships. Not sure how lucrative this option is but it would be worth asking Vicky Vette since this is basically what she did when she left the industry.
TBH and I'm going to share something really personal here, it was because my mom had a stroke and I wanted a quick and easy way to pay for her medical bills because she was uninsured and unemployed at the time. I quickly discovered that I could barely afford to support myself let alone her. I had ten shoots my first month of doing porn. Since then, I'm lucky to get 3 shoots a month and most of these shoots are amateur shoots for clips sites, not professional productions which means I'm doing my own hair and makeup and also providing my own wardrobe for about $500 a pop, if that. Actually I haven't worked for a professional production since last September which should tell you something since it's February now. My rent is $1000 a month. My phone bill is $70 a month. My food is about $250 a month (if I'm living off ramen and canned veggies and 99 cent store food with the occasional fast food meal thrown in). Testing (if I have work) costs me $165 (I live in downtown Los Angeles and am closer to Sherman oaks instead of north ridge where the slightly ($150) cheaper talent testing is). So all together, not including transportation I'm paying $1485 rounded up to $1500 a month just for basic living expenses. My entire porn "career" (since last April), I've probably not even made 15k. That's poverty wages right there. Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO
^ Thanks for sharing such personal experience, Maci. I think it really puts things into perspective. Very often, we think of the top tier girls getting so many scenes and enjoying a great life when talking of our porn girls. But what of the majority of the girls in the middle of the table who are struggling to get scenes and paying high costs of living in LA just to have a better chance of shooting? Your income derived from porn is not even allowing you to save anything for your after-porn career, so I believe you must be doing alternative jobs to make things slightly better for you. It's quite a sad state of facts.
I do. It consists of reading about and watching porn and discussing it. We study the history, genre, technology, theories, trends, etc. They have to write research papers--one about a director or performer from a list that we are studying and another about any topic related to porn.
I think royalties for performers is a great idea but the only way they could get it is if they acted as a single entity. Companies aren't going to do it out of the kindness of their hearts and a single performer can't compel them to fork over more money. But all of them acting together potentially could. That's why I was so disappointed to see the IEAU completely self-destruct. Hopefully the next attempt at unionization won't be a complete clusterfuck. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 2/3/2017 10:41:48 PM
So basically none of us really make any money? I find that hard to believe- I know personally for a fact that Andre Madness from Wicked drives around in a jaguar... Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO
Andre started 25 years ago, the big slump is from the last 5 years. We all used to make good money, a lot less now. Jacco
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Feb 5 2017 : 9:47AM
Thank you all for the answers, especially Maci for your personal confession as well as your insight opinion. There are very interesting posts to start with...I very much agree about the unionization of all adult performers under a certain widely recognized powerful organization. Btw it is the first time I hear about IEAU. I 've heard of APAC and FSC and they did a good job uniting many adult industry insiders against the controversial prop60 and other matters that concerned actors safety in the past, (like postponing porn production in case of HIV positive rumors). But the issue here is a lot more serious than putting or not a condom on set. The newcomers have to join their forces with their older colleagues and mainly with their agents and try to find a common solution with the producers and the Czars of the industry. Their profession is in severe danger. Many ambitious girls enter the industry as sensual performers, wishing to expose their sexuality on public in a protected professional environment, but they quickly end up doing everything but that, including offering their services to wealthy gentlemen on private. I am not trying to judge what these girls do off sets. I am just trying to show the degree of the porn profession decline and the severe implications which this might have generally in the industry and in society. This is an interesting article portraying the dimension of the problem . And the irony is that if the booming of off set sex services by adult performers continues, might lead the state and the industry itself to impose the usage of condom on sets. (much to prop60 fighters)
^Interesting article. Thanks. It's been discussed on this forum that it's now very difficult to make substantial money from porn, and many women now look at porn as marketing for private escorting. I just found this allegation a little concerning: "Kross says that some agents will actively do double-duty, booking their talent for shoots as well as for privates. "They'll lock girls into a contract and literally hold them hostage if they don't agree to escort for them," she says." Edited by - Simple Simon on 2/5/2017 9:49:58 PM
^ That's a bad use of the word "literally", given that I'm pretty sure she means "figuratively". What agents do is refuse to allow girls to book through other agencies, but also refuse to book any scenes for that girl, so that she cannot shoot porn at all. Unless she escorts for them. Instances of agents kidnapping porn girls and holding them hostage in a dark room somewhere until a ransom is paid are quite rare I would assume.
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Feb 5 2017 : 11:30PM
Frankly, I don't understand why so many girls enter the industry at all. I mean, they can't all be completely ignorant of how poorly it pays. Some percentage of them, for instance, are coming into the business through a connection of some sort and presumably know the score. It just doesn't make much sense when you consider the social stigma. However, if a girl is smart, and has a plan and can stick for the long term, she can make it work. But that's probably less than 1% of female performers.
^^ Ummm ... no I didn't actually take "hold them hostage" literally. I took it to mean agents sign women to porn contracts, and then demand they provide sex services to private individuals (or "escort"). (As an aside, I've heard some sex workers say they actually chose to work on the street over brothels, because it enabled them to choose who they would provide services to.) Edited by - Simple Simon on 2/5/2017 11:42:27 PM
^ Oh I know you didn't take it literally. It's Kayden who used the word "literally". I was arguing with her use of the word, not yours. Edited by - killbillvol69 on 2/5/2017 11:51:46 PM
^ Well, I think I read on Quara once that because so many people now use that word incorrectly, that the word has actually now been redefined. [Years ago a media watch program had a segment on this incorrect usage, and they played this comment from a sports commentator: "He has the weight of the world on his shoulders. That's not an exaggeration; that's quite literally the case."] Edited by - Simple Simon on 2/6/2017 1:21:00 AM
^^ Interesting, Simple Simon. I take back my complaint. In fact, apparently every major dictionary now contains both uses for the word "literally". But again, my complaint was never with you Simple Simon, only with Kayden. Nonetheless, I must now apologize to Kayden. Sorry Kayden. edit: made it clear I was addressing Simple Simon Edited by - killbillvol69 on 2/6/2017 1:46:06 AM
Having worked in the music industry, I can aver that judges take a dim view of agencies that abuse contractual arrangements. A performer should be able to sue in small claims court without it costing an arm and a leg and, in the likely event that the performer wins, she can recoup the court costs from the agency. Well, she can get such a ruling, anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if some 'agent' tried to ignore it, but judges take an even dimmer view of scofflaws, so that would be a pretty stupid move.
^ "[If a contract is breached] a performer should be able to sue ... without it costing an arm and a leg" So true. What is the point of unequal parties having a contract when the larger party knows they can break the terms and the smaller party really can't do anything.
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A_Fan Deactivated User
1187 Posts 9/16
Posted - Feb 6 2017 : 4:52AM
Isn't reality most porn women have to face is that doing scenes are not a long term income stream... they are brand building for escorting, feature dancing, and websites. If a new performer refuses to escort, they will have a hard time paying the bills. I am not saying this is right or wrong...... . EVen busy performers would be hard pressed to make a 100 grand just from commercial porn scenes . New girls are , as Maci shares, eating 99 cent crap from the grocery stores if they are trying to live on porn scenes. Maci is one of the vocal ones.. she is one of many that shoot a hand full of scenes then you barely see them again. I still say, webcamming is the way to go. Smart Girls on Chaturbate who run it like a business are making 5 to 10 grand a month ....... not by going on for an hour, getting frustrated they made 5 dollars and leave... they put in a building process of 6 - 12 months on a schedule, every day, and talk to their viewers and answer questions, shoot the breeze ,build a fanbase.. and soon enough, they are making a killing from their regular guys. Edited by - A_Fan on 2/6/2017 4:56:51 AM
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Feb 6 2017 : 8:03PM
You don't think making porn videos is an escalation?
But it really just depends on the girl. Some new girls have a hard time because they don't have the right agent or don't the right look or doesn't have that "something" that makes them stand out. There are also new girls who's career just take off and they get a fair amount of work. It's not a straightforward thing. Sometimes it all a bout the looks, sometimes it about how much a girl is willing to do, sometimes it's about the girl finding her niche. But....yeah, it's really a small amount of girls who are top tier and work regularly overall.There was a site called STERNFANNETWORK that used to have an ad for girls live webcamming and I used to click on some of them to watch them webcamming in real time. It was interesting to watch the various approaches girls used to get guys to pay for a privaye show (or whatever it's called). Some would whine that the guys weren't paying, some would put forth no effort to get guys to pay, some would insult the guys, some would play up their sex appeal, and some made no effort to be sexy. Some of the girls were actually interesting and entertaining...others seem to have no idea what they were doing. Also interesting was the fact that there were a lot of girls on the site who had retired from mainstream porn. I would probably never pay for webcamming but it was very interesting watching the different techniques and who made money from doing it.
I certainly don't want to leave the industry anytime soon. I may have no choice since it's not financially lucrative but I want to be a voice for girls that have no voice. Maybe I'll burn a few bridges but if that means the industry can start to change I'll take it. It's just a pity I don't have star power. I can't believe how many girls just take this stuff lying down... We need to stand up for ourselves. Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO
I'm pretty sure a lot of girls now know that porn can't be their full-time gig. For some reason there's this frequent notion here on ADT that all these performers want to do porn, and only porn, and they "have to" webcam or escort additionally to make ends meet, when it's just as likely that many of them are fully aware of it beforehand and plan accordingly. In any case, one just needs to look at recent performer threads - there are loads more girls who did webcamming first and then went into porn, than girls who first came to porn valley and then started webcamming. The main issue is that all the part-time-by-choice performers are taking bookings away from those performers who actually want to do porn full time, but that's not something that anything can be done about. And as far as the would-be full timers go, I bet there's also the same factors at work that can be seen in mainstream entertainment or in professional sports - there are a lot more people who believe that they have what it takes than there are actual spots available in the industry. Sucks to be one of those who fail to make the cut, but it's just unavoidable in any competitive field, and the difference between "in" and "out" tends to be very large in entertainment industries. Edited by - shalalin on 2/7/2017 2:52:52 PM
Yeah part time porn workers are sort of like the illegal immigrants of porn. Take jobs away from hard working porn girls who want to do this full time and make it harder to break into the club. The good thing is, porn doesn't require the level of finesse an Olympic athlete needs and anyone can be successful at it, they just need to find a way to capitalize on how they can monetize their fans. Lots of performers make thier own content and don't even get recognized by big companies but still make more than the "top" girls because they either are top cam girls, or have an extremely successful clips store. Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO
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hoochimama Deactivated User
1437 Posts 5/10
Posted - Feb 7 2017 : 5:28PM
Those people got that through their unions after considerable power struggles against producers. While it's not impossible for an adult actor union to win some more rights, keep in mind that the level of skill required to be an adult actor is infinitely lower than to be a musician or a mainstream syndicated actor (you just need to be 18+ and alive, mostly) and extremely ephemeral(most are shot out after a year), and so adult actors can be replaced far more easily without affecting a producer's bottom line, which means they have very little power to use in that kind of struggle. There is no comparison.You fail to explain how exactly "gifting" pornstars the right to royalties would prompt them to make more scenes, or better ones. You think just because they'd get more money they'd be happier and their happiness would magically shine through into a better-selling product? That's not how it works. If movie producers believed paying more money to actors would produce a better-selling product they'd gladly do it, but that's not why some actors get royalties. They get them because if they didn't they'd refuse to work and not being that easily replaced it would actually hurt the studios' bottom line. You can't easily replace an Anthony Hopkins, but you can easily replace Buttwoman nº15. The way I see it if you're truly here to advocate in porn consumer's interests rather than doning a cape (doubt it) then your idea essentially boils down to - Porn would be better if pornstars got more money so porn producers have to give them more money by cutting back their own profits - Porn would be better if pornstars got more money so porn consumers should pay more for their porn so that money can trickle down to the models I'll just go read those pornstar-started threads on "Porn consumers already pay too much, we should work for less!", "Porn addiction has severe longerm consequences on quality of life, the industry should pay their healthcare and therapy", "Our fans deserve better: IR triple pen bukkake gangbangs from every girl! #stopteasing". ________________________________________________ Please ID these girls from PlayboyTV's Foursome show Edited by - hoochimama on 2/7/2017 5:50:28 PM
Posted - Feb 3 2017 : 4:54AM
