The freebie cables often supplied with equipment are usually plenty good to get the job done. Speaker cable ought to be at least 18-gauge for a 6-foot run (16-gauge for 10-12 feet, 14-gauge for 18-20 feet -- err on the heavier gauge side if you have a high-powered amplifier). If you really want to protect yourself, buy into the low-end of the Monster Cable line of interconnects. Their high-end stuff is so over the top that the only thing it's good for is padding their corporate fiscal reports.

Fancy interconnects are the snake oil of the high-end audiophile market.

(This from a non-practicing electrical engineer with a serious audiophile background and habit -- I own a pair of Martin Logan Monoliths.)

~ GaySatyr

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One of the best, reasonably priced brands that I have found is Acoustic Research (the blue cables, not the green ones). They are available at Best Buy. A set of AR 6ft component video cables is $29.99. While the corresponding length of Monster Cable costs $69.99. I would challenge anyone to a double blind test of these cables.

I used to use Radio Shack Cables. But they did something with their connectors. Now they are too tight. They can do damage to a component when trying to remove a cable.

As far as digital audio cables are concerned. Buy cheap. It's 1's and 0's. Either the signal gets there or it doesn't. For optical audio cables, just buy Recoton. It's inexpensive and works well. For Coax digital audio, just buy a video cable. They're the exact same thing as digital audio cable without the marketing hype. Acoustic Research is honest with its pricing on this one. A 6ft Video cable and a 6ft coax digital audio cable both cost $12.99. They should. They are the exact same thing in different packages.

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truth is, unless you've got to run them hundreds of feet through interference, you cut your lampcord and it should work fine. your best bet is going to your local audio shop or radio shack(avoid bestbuy, circuit city, etc. if you don't like to be ripped off by people who don't know what they're selling. i've got nothing but wider-gauge house brand for interconnects. no more than 15 dollars and they're more than adequate on pretty legitamate gear from linn, dynaudio and krell.

if you've got an old place(nowhere in boston is new) a 50-dollar deal like you see lots of hospital equipment plugged into will make a difference more than cables ever will and they're cheaper than the ones built into fancy surge-protectors. i grabbed two at a local med supply store for under 80 dollars mainly for my computer after i borrowed a UPS and it started to get stable voltages and rails again. i've been able to ditch the backup power totally and it's audibly different in terms of snr on my integrated amp(with/all it sounds like is air moving, without-humming).
so if you've got the money burning a hole in your pocket, i'd get some quality generic cabling and i/c's and make sure your power is clean. i'm generally skeptical of anything stereophile says, you should be too. if you live in a place that predates electricity, cleaning up what's going into your expensive stuff is cheaper than 2 monster cables anyhow and suprised the hell out of me with the differnce it made.

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important factors to transparency with any price cable are keeping it from coiling and as short as possible. you'll notice much more of an effect with moving the relationship between ears/speakers, what kind of carpeting you use, etc. than you ever will with paying for cables.

the only reason to spend that kind of money is if it makes you sleep better. i let my dad keep his cardas stuff, if somehow a bad cable oxidized while plugged into revel salons, i'd cry too.

from
http://sound.westhost.com/cables-p6.htm#outro

Conclusion

On the one hand, we have respected designers who simulate, build, measure and modify until they are satisfied that the performance is as expected. Then, and only then, the amplifier (or whatever it might be) is auditioned in a proper listening test (as opposed to a lab speaker), and perhaps only the designer listens to it in the first instance. If the soto und is as expected, then others will usually be invited listen as well. Comments are made, and if it is felt that they are valid (a sufficient number of listeners made the same remarks, for example), then further modifications will be made, more tests, more listening, until everyone is satisfied that the measured and audible performance is in agreement. The measurements are available on the colour glossies, and are considered a part of the equipment - this is the specification, against which others can be compared.

Compare this to the snake oil vendors. As an example, they buy perfectly ordinary cable from an established manufacturer, clad it in some fancy heatshrink tubing, write their sales pitch, and sell it. They might actually bother to listen to it as well, but there isn't much point, since it is the same wire as used by others anyway. Do you see specifications, measurements, or other factual data? No! What you see on the colour glossies is a sales pitch, aimed directly at your emotional responses. There are no means for direct comparison, not a mention of anything that will help you to make a reasonable and informed decision as to which "thing" is (or might be) better than the other.

Non blind listening tests are flawed - and especially so when conducted by a dealer. Don't expect that the levels will be precisely matched, but absolutely expect the salesthing to tell you what to hear - not exactly a fair comparison.

When only emotions are allowed to make the decision on technical equipment, we can be fairly certain that we will make the wrong choice, other than by chance. Having spent all that money, no-one, and I mean no-one, will be willing to admit that they were defrauded, robbed or deceived. The survival instinct takes over, and we hear exactly what we expect to - whether it exists ot not.

In the long term, the subjectivist approach will cost you a lot of money, and possibly yield a system that is less hi-fi than something from a department store. A review without technical tests is without substance or meaning, and nearly all descriptions about amplifier sound should be taken with a large dose of salt (possibly epsom).

Claims that power leads and interconnects will magically transform the sound of your system are false and misleading in the extreme. The various system components may be influenced by some combinations, but a well designed system should not care.

The current impasse between the scientific and subjectivist camps is unlikely to be resolved in the near future, because as politics and religion have shown over the centuries, people will believe what they want to, despite any evidence that may be offered to show that they are misguided or just plain wrong.

There is great difficulty defining the quality of an audio experience - you can't draw a picture to show what something sounded like. In addition, our acoustical memory is far more fleeting and more readily fooled than visual memory. It is much easier to visualise what the Sydney Harbour Bridge looks like than to recall all but the basic details of a musical performance.

From Douglas Self -

It has been universally recognised for many years in experimental psychology, particularly in experiments about perception, that people tend to perceive what they want to perceive. This is often called the 'experimenter expectancy' effect; it is more subtle and insidious than it sounds, and the history of science is littered with the wrecked careers of those who failed to guard against it. Such self-deception has most often occurred in fields like biology, where although the raw data may be numerical, there is no real mathematical theory to check it against.

When the only 'results' are vague subjective impressions, the danger is clearly much greater, no matter how absolute the integrity of the experimenter. Thus in psychological work great care is necessary in the use of impartial observers, double-blind techniques, and rigorous statistical tests for significance. The vast majority of Subjectivist writings wholly ignore these precautions, with predictable results. In a few cases properly controlled listening tests been done, and at the time of writing all have resulted in different amplifiers sounding indistinguishable. I believe the conclusion is inescapable that experimenter expectancy has played a dominant role in the growth of Subjectivism.

It is notable that in Subjectivist audio the 'correct' answer is always the more expensive or inconvenient one. Electronics is rarely as simple as that. A major improvement is more likely to be linked with a new circuit topology or new type of semiconductor, than with mindlessly specifying more expensive components of the same type; cars do not go faster with platinum pistons.

All the above notwithstanding, most audio designers will still tend to accept (however reluctantly) some of the subjectivist propaganda, if only to be able to extract some of the obviously serious money that would otherwise go elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with this in principle, but where this happens, you will almost invariably get what you pay for, and the equipment's performance will be (hopefully) satisfying to both camps.

Just as likely is that the subjectivists will determine that this same piece of equipment is hopelessly inadequate in all respects, despite the fact that it has zero distortion of any kind, and a frequency response from DC to daylight. (A good quality standard interconnect comes to mind!)

Further Reading

For further reading, have a look at "Amplifier Sound", an article that tries to rationalise some of the misunderstandings and differences of opinion that abound in the audio field.

To help gain an understanding of how we form belief systems, have a read of the article "The Belief Engine". It is a fascinating look into the way our minds work, and helps to explain how we can perceive very obvious differences that don't actually exist.

The articles listed in the References are an additional source for information on these topics.

References

1. Wireless World, July 1988 - D. Self 'Science and Subjectivism in Audio' (See also The Self Site)
2. The Audio Pages, ESP, Impedance
3. The Audio Pages, ESP, Bi-amplification - Not Quite Magic (But Close)
4. Stereophile, Sept 1995 - R. Harley 'Review of Cary CAD-300SEI Single-Ended Triode Amplifier'
5. BBC Engineering Monograph No 52 - 'Stereophony & The effect of crosstalk between left and right channels'

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I understand that some people dismiss quality cables. However, I've noticed a massive improvement by using top QED and Belden cables on my home cinema. Heck, I even noticed a difference replacing the power cords! There are also many other tests and mags that go against your sources. At the end of the day it is a matter of opinion. I know for well I saw the difference wirh my own eyes! I understand nobody can expect to get an improvment using a HQ HDMI cable since the date is digital. If some source like the one you posted is gonna tell me its all in my mind they can kiss my ass. I'm usually the hardest person to satisfy! However, saying that, I can certainly sympathize with your cliams in the audio field!

Edited by - sanchez_1960 on 6/17/2004 5:45:23 PM

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I know an idiot who firmly believes otherwise. And he's welcome to (and did) spend $17,000 on replacement power cords, cables, and interconnects for the two stereo systems in his home. He claims the resulting improvements are astounding; however, I still think he'is a gullible fool (and have told him so - we argue high-end audio often).

Most of the components in my own stereo system are old; however, most were top quality in their day and they still hold their own when compared to current, top-of-the-line audiophile equipment. I've kept cord runs to minimum lengths and kept power cords, speaker cables, and audio signal cords as far from each other as pracitcal. Everything is properly grounded and I have no ground loops. All low-level signal cables are properly shielded and all cable connectors are of the same metal as their sockets. Where there was the possibility of oxidation, I coated the exposed metal with clear fingernail polish after ensuring that a proper connection had been made. My cord, cable and interconnect costs were probably well under $300 and I'd be willing to bet that my results equal or surpass those of my well-heeled audiophile snob friend.

~ GaySatyr

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I don't think that my Acoustic Research cables are of any higher quality than the Monster Cables are. Monster makes a good product. But I think my AR cables are every bit as good as the Monster Cables are at less than 1/2 the price.

What Coyote wrote is very telling. My understanding is that Best Buy employees can buy products for cost. Typical markup on products like this is 100% (of cost, or 50% of retail). Being that Coyote was buying Monster for 1/3 the price, that means that the markup on Monster Cables is 200% (of cost, 67% of retail).

At stores like Circuit City, where the sales people receive commissions, the commissions on Monster Cable products are among the highest in the store (along with Bose).

If you're someone who needs a lot of cables, another option is making your own. With a small investment in tools, you can make cables every bit as good as anything on the market for a fraction of the price. If you just need a couple of cables, don't bother. The tool's about $60. Just get the AR's.

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You are right, best buy employees get 5% over cost of the items (which is a reason to work at BB even 4 hours a week and if you buy dvd box sets and games a lot). However in my Monster Cable case the packages had sustained some damage due to...I forget but at any rate they were marked down by my manager and beings I was friendly with him he marked them down quite a bit. I got the HDTV cables and I think they run for like 80 or 90 bucks and I also threw in the optical and bought an S-Video cable. All and all I save a lot of money. I do know that there is an improvement on my system but for the price of the Monster Cables at regular price I really don't think it's worth it. I mean you might as well use the money to get your system Professionally calibrated. My next stop is to get some better speaker wires. I'm leaning toward all copper cables at about 18 gauge which I'm sure is pretty good.

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but i'm opposed to telling someone they need to spend their own money on your totally subjective opinion. i think you're wrong, as does basic cicuitry, but you're doing your best to keep americans at work selling interconnects at absurd margins.

if you want more than my opinion, do a double blind test and post your results to show you can hear the differences--nobody 's claimed the 5-year old pot now in the thousands of dollars at rec.audio.high-end for the ability to do so.

i'll defer to john dunlavy(of dunlavy) and roger russell(creator of mcintosh's speakers and head of research for over a decade) since they've got engineering degrees and stuff and a quickie from the new york times article from 99

"In my professional opinion that's baloney," said Alan P. Kefauver, a classically trained musician and director of the Recording Arts and Sciences program at the Peabody Institute of Johns Hopkins University. "Has the wire been cryogenically frozen? Is it flat or round? It makes no difference, unless it makes you feel better." His choice for speaker wire? Good-quality 16-gauge zip wire.

The disagreement would be unnotable except for one thing: experts are in agreement that most cables that claim to improve the sound of audio equipment don't. Even cables costing thousands of dollars per foot are often little more than sonic snake oil, experts say.

Consumers trying to purchase audio cables often find themselves buying high-end replacements because the only cables in the store are expensive ones. The manufacturers and sellers of audio goods like to stay above the fray. Cables are a highly lucrative item that may account for a modest percentage of sales but a greater percentage of profit.

Even audio manufacturers not directly involved in the cable business like to steer clear of the debate.

Polk Audio, a well respected manufacturer of loudspeakers in Baltimore, no longer makes cables but declined an invitation to set up a listening test in its laboratories. One reason it gave was that the test could affect relationships with audio stores. "We would be hearing from every retailer in the country," said Paul Dicomo, communications director for Polk Audio.

Kerry Moyer, staff director for the Consumer Electronics Association, which represents manufacturers, said accessories were usually the highest markup items, wires included. Sales of high-margin accessories have become critical in the current market, where prices of components like receivers, amplifiers and DVD players, have had profit margins squeezed by competition.

"It becomes a question of where are we going to make a little money?" he said. Mr. Moyer, whose $3,000 sound system uses about $300 worth of cables, said the technological superiority of a cable is not the issue -- it is the perceived value to the hobbyist.

Proving that one audio cable is better than the next is nearly impossible, experts say.

"If someone feels good about buying it, whether it works or it doesn't, it makes them feel good," he said. "I don't think we should question."

John Dunlavy, who manufactures audiophile loudspeakers and wire to go with it, does think questioning is valid. A musician and engineer, Mr. Dunlavy said as an academic exercise he used principles of physics relating to transmission line and network theory to produce a high-end cable. "People ask if they will hear a difference, and I tell them no," he said.

Mr. Dunlavy has often gathered audio critics in his Colorado Springs lab for a demonstration.

"What we do is kind of dirty and stinky," he said. "We say we are starting with a 12 WAG zip cord, and we position a technician behind each speaker to change the cables out."

The technicians hold up fancy-looking cables before they disappear behind the speakers. The critics debate the sound characteristics of each wire.

"They describe huge changes and they say, 'Oh my God, John, tell me you can hear that difference,'" Mr. Dunlavy said. The trick is the technicians never actually chang

and here's da russell

It can be solid, stranded, copper, oxygen free copper, silver, etc.--or even "magic" wire--as long as the resistance is kept to be less than 5% of the speaker impedance. There is no listening difference as long as the wire is of adequate size.

Of course, we are not personally able to establish the truth of everything for ourselves and it's not easy to set up a similar wire listening test. Very few people are able to make speaker impedance measurements or wire resistance measurements down to 0.1 ohms. Like many other things in life, we rely on indirect sources of information, such as sales literature, reviews and opinions. This is called Authority Belief, which is part of our belief system. An interesting article about the belief system is described in ETC: A Review Of General Semantics Sept. 1964 titled Images Of the Consumer's Mind by Milton Rokeach.

Gordon Gow's cable demonstration provided a personal experience for customers that could replace the Authority Beliefs they had relied on earlier. The demonstration was controlled. It was an instant comparison and the listeners did not know the wire identification. Gordon held many such demonstrations in dealer showrooms and at shows.

The Truth About Speaker Wire

Despite the effectiveness of Gordon's cable demonstration and the truth about speaker wire, people visiting the McIntosh room at the shows, who had not experienced the cable demonstration, were disturbed that we were using ordinary heavy zip cord instead of one of the popular brands of speaker wire. Instead of listening to the McIntosh speakers and electronics, they recalled "bad" things they had been told about "common" speaker wire and this promoted questions about the "inferior" wire being used. When we changed the wire to a popular brand of wire, customers were happy with the setup, and directed their attention to the McIntosh equipment.

The demand for high quality speaker wire was increasing and appeared to be a new marketing area for several companies. McIntosh did not make or sell speaker wire. The solution seemed very obvious--rather than spend time and effort to create negative sales for McIntosh dealers who were beginning to sell speaker wire, it seemed best to encourage the speaker owner/customer to consult with the dealer about what speaker wire to use. Consequently, I no longer recommended the kind of wire or wire sizes in the speaker manuals.

By 1988, McIntosh no longer supplied audio interconnects with the electronics. Again, many kinds of special audio cables were available to the customer/owner. The dealer could also be consulted about what cables to use.

I credit the success of the speaker wire industry to their expert sales and marketing ability. However, it is my experience that ordinary copper wire, as long as it's heavy enough, is just as good as name brands.

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You'll never see any of this stuff in a New York post-production house. At $500/hour if it made a difference, you'd think they'd have it.

-T.C.

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i'm curious as to how one justifies expensive power cabling, it can't actively improve the current and it has nothing to do with the actual parts that make the signal, which hasn't been created yet.
i'll give him props if he's rewired his house all the way to the nearest phone pole in equinox headphone cabling or something.

i'm convinced anyone considering investing real money in a/v gear should totally avoid all the comic-books/magazines and really force themselves to understand what's really happening from the dvd/cd/phono stage to your ears and the human psy-model. nothing overly commercial, stick to real papers, start bothering the engineers you know. what you can learn in a few weeks of reading some truly boring stuff and familiarizing yourself with history and really important terminology will save you tons of money.

i sometimes feel like this hobby should be labelled "money spending contest". i've seen so many people with 10K and over setups with no idea of what core concepts like dither are and believe capac/impedence are synonyms. there are 2 ok people at sterophile, all the h/t ones are new enough or just sound and vision 2.o so expect advertising bias and hacks writing reviews for free equipment to play with, so they'll seriously write up wire "Cooked" to flush sluggish electrons out. that's like you choosing your next camera because some shaman from the yucutan poured panther blood on it as protection against making a tom hanks movie.

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