Chico Wang is perhaps responsible here. If he did not do it, he surely contributed. I think Chico was fun and far out, looking on his BTS @ anabolic. Now I see how far out he rally was. I think he ranted and bullied Haley here in this forum as well. Anyone remember how he talked about her miscarriage of baby, having sex with her and her drug problem and abusive ex-husband. Those things are private and sensitive, and I now in retrospective think this was shamless and abusive of Chico. Not just did he reveal these facts, he also revealed them in such a tone and "style" that it becomes really explicit how exploitive this man was. Martin Del Toro and Chico Wang, not the guys you want to marry your daughter, huh? When Quaser wrote how naive and innocent she probably was, and adding the history of sexual abuse and trauma in her childhood, I think also the Industry stands out as immoral, corrupt and very cynic. If she trusted everyone, and was so sweet, as Quaser says, then we might as well give the Nobel piece price to Khan Thusion, for his "Meat Holes"-series. We are contributing to stereotyping actual human beings into "meat holes". WE also share some responsibility. And this makes me wanna burn all my adult dvd's. Trinity Loren, Kristy Lynn, Savannah, Haley Paige, Jon Dough, Karen Lancaume etc... Suicides and perhaps murder. We, who buy their products really should reflect on which values we contribute to. We are buying movies of innocence being corrupted and labelling people as "whore, filthy, cunt, slut" etc. It's time to fucking wake up!
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 7:54PM
So you are saying we should enjoy porn produced by someone other then humans? All groups of human from all professions and living on all continents have suicide and murder. There is nothing special about porn. For all your detective work you didn't notice this was normal human behavior? Death is a pretty important part of life. "We are buying movies of innocence being corrupted and labelling people as "whore, filthy, cunt, slut" etc." Speak for yourself when you say "we" please, you don't talk for anyone but you. EDIT: And what in the world is a "piece prize" is that something to be inserted anally? EDIT AGAIN: "We are contributing to stereotyping actual human beings" Never laughed at a sitcom? You didn't know this was a completely normal thing? Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 7:59:15 PM
wait was it wrong of me to put a "lol" on this thread......damn......i am confused.....because the thread is actually depressing.......this thread gettin bad messy....
When people who don't bother taking care with writing or editing posts insist on doing so LOL'ing at them seems like it is called for. Death is not a joke but some posts are. Death is actually rather sad and unfortunate for someone so young. She and I are/were the same age. This hits me in a rough way as does the death of any young person. Posting nonsense is still laughable.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:06PM
I do think a person does take serious consideration of what hi/her parents would think when marrying. I know I would. And obviously she didn't and look at who she sadly ended up with. I feel guilty everyday for being into porn because I know it is an industry that feeds on desperate souls. One of the most shocking things I have scene related to this is Jake Malone's MySpace page. He says he hopes to meet girls that are desperate and recovering addicts. Great so he can convince them to do things on camera that only a needy/desperate individual would do. I love sexuality and the display of it on film. But, now that the market is so flooded and producers are a dime a dozen the stuff that is being put out by some is very worrying. I am all for sexy stuff and a lot of porn is just that sexy. But, the stuff Chico and Martin Del Toro put out was not. It was a disillusioned guy taunting desperate talent, some of the girls can put up with and it rolls of their back. Obviously, Hailey was a girl who couldn't take it and was eventually killed by one of her tormentors or by the drugs she used to escape from reality.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:22PM
"I feel guilty everyday for being into porn because I know it is an industry that feeds on desperate souls." And some consumer industry doesn't? Wake up! Coffee shops. Tobacco Smoke. Dependence on gasoline. Desperate souls are the customers. Are you blind? That is how *all* industry works. What industry attempts to sell people something that they actually *need*? Do you need a car? Welcome to industry at work. Do you farm or buy your groceries? Again, it's an industry issue if you aren't your own substance farmer. Get out of dreamland. Don't like how the porn "industry" works? Do what an informed intelligent person would do and save your money by not contributing.
Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 8:25:01 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:26PM
That is an incredibly asinine response. I definitely need my car to get to work to give my little bother rides to practice, to get groceries so I can sustain myself, more then I need to look at porn. Porn feeds of desperate souls, you can argue all consumerism is wrong (which I don't agree with), but I don't think you can argue all industries are as exploitative as porn.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:29PM
Gasoline is worse then porn, more idiots hooked. Anyway you missed my point. Your post was idiotically blaming a certain group. That is not true. Those negative elements of porn happen to people across the work force all the time. Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 8:32:37 PM
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:34PM
"Obviously, Hailey was a girl who couldn't take it and was eventually killed by one of her tormentors" What branch of public authority do you work for? Please show your badge number or your position in the coroner's office. You are caught in a lie (again) otherwise. Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 8:35:34 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:38PM
None. And, I don't agree with your theory that gasoline in inherently evil. It has been the catalyst for the incredible growth the world economy has scene in the last century. I think my point is almost unarguable in Haley's case. She was from weak family and was a confused girl who taken advantage of by many people. And you took that quote out of context. I said she might have been killed by Chico, obviously I don't know that. Wouldn't be out of character considering his history. I am not trying to be a moralizer just pointing out some obvious truths.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:40PM
She might also have been killed by a bit of space debris. ' You speculate as to who might have done it... You are the only one acting like you have insider info. Truths don't need to be "obvious" if true. When you learn what"industry" means I might believe your posts. Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 8:44:50 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:49PM
I think I know what industry means, its not really an elusive concept. And can you type full paragraphs? Do you feel the need to only express yourself one sentence at a time? I never said I knew what happened. I am speculating Chico was probably somehow involved. I don't think I am really going out on a limb their. Later, and I really meant for my original post to be directed in general not to banter with one person.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:52PM
Hey Fucko, if you want to mess with my sentence breaks your spelling is brain damaged. It's there not "their". You're welcome, Mr. Smarty-pants. It is very clear that you know lots about the adult industry and spelling words in English. Thanks for the insight. EDIT: for posterity in case the post changes "I don't think I am really going out on a limb their." Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 8:57:19 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:55PM
Wow you really are superior now you are resorting to name calling and pointing out minor gramitical mistakes.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:58PM
You started it with my paragraph breaks. I was only criticizing your content. Not your structure to begin with. You brought it up.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:58PM
uh.... I didn't spell anything wrong I may have misused their instead of there, I would really like some other comments. You are obviously into personal assaults and even making up things.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:00PM
Your insightful and sensitive comments about the death of a fellow human are very gratifying. Thank you for letting us know your feelings.
Hey you two, you do realize that a person has recently died here? Maybe a little respect for the departed is in order? Please take it to e-mail where it belongs.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:02PM
I have expressed my sympathies, I was commenting on a pointlessly gossip laden post. Reread if you think otherwise from me.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:04PM
I agree this is stupid, but Conquistador's conclusions are really inaccurate. Their was no gossip in my post and no personal insults yet conquistador feels the need to attack, pointlessly.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:06PM
Yeah.. Cause "Obviously, Hailey was a girl who couldn't take it and was eventually killed by one of her tormentors" Doesn't jump to any conclusions.
"We" is a very large and diverse universe. I -- deliberately -- do not buy or rent abusive porn. Many others here feel the same way. When porn is made by adults for adults, it is a wonderful experience for all concerned (studio, talent and consumer). For example, you will never see anything shot/directed by Quasarman (and pretty much the whole Zero Tolerance/3rd Degree family) or, say, Jules Jordan that will make you "cringe." These people are professionals, consistently produce superior product, treat their talent and crew people with respect and are highly regarded throughout the industry. And, then, there are the Chico Wangs -- and worse. Support the good guys, and avoid and speak out against the talentless-hacks, misogynists, abusers, druggies and check-bouncing losers that, unfortunately, also populate the industry.
Excellent point. There are assholes, rapists, misogynists, etc. in this business. I'm sure there are more in porn than most (which is actually quite twisted), BUT I'm am NOT in any way responsible for what happened to this poor soul. If I hear about the Max Hardcore's, Chico Wang's, etc. of this world, I don't buy their vids. That's the most I can do. Sure as hell not going to not buy them wholesale. Shit, you can even flip this argument around. There are girls who enjoy this business, believe it or not. Who am I to deprive them of a career? And if that sentence seems asinine, then you realize the absurdity of blaming the consumers for the tragedies that occur here. I just don't buy shit that's demeaning or abusive to talent. If I want to see an open wide asshole, I'll just look at a pic of the director.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:35PM
This is unbelievable....I said she was either killed by one of her central tormentors (insert name of former Diabolic director) or due to drugs. These are definitely the likely causes of death, so I am not gossiping I am being logical. Please, don't misquote me.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:45PM
Your statements speak pretty clearly. If quoting you is the same as misquoting who could know what to quote? You said it yourself. EDIT: because your quotes are full of true evidence... EXTRA EDIT: because this, "so I am not gossiping I am being logical." makes sense to you there is clearly no understanding of logic on your end. Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 9:51:35 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:51PM
I consider blatant gossiping to be the equivalent of storytelling. I did not do that, she: 1. Had a drug problem. 2. Was married to an abusive shithead. 3. She died. So by deduction it doesn't take a laureate to come to the conclusion that the drugs or Chico could have had a hand in her passing.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:52PM
In which of your three conditions does Chico fit in? More then her own choices. I smell trolling fanboy. It has been pretty clear that this troll doesn't understand logic. I am done. Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 9:55:18 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 9:58PM
I am done after this post but I just want to say this. You not once actually addressed the substance of what I said. You selectively quoted me and launched personal insults. Oh, well. I am going to jack off.
First, I'm sad to hear Haley is dead. She did seem like an innocent to me. Conquistador: Your argument that coffee shops and gasoline cater to "desperate souls" makes zero sense to me. Consumers are not "desperate" by definition. If this helps you come to grips with enjoying porn, so be it, but don't try to tell us it is fact. I'm not trying to be insulting at all. I'm just pointing out a logical flaw in your argument and asking you to examine it. Do I believe that all porn performers are somehow exploited or "desperate"? No way. Are some? I'm sure there are some in porn that are there for the wrong reasons. I enjoy porn and fully realize that some percentage of people in the industry are troubled and/or aren't doing it purely for the love of sex. Ragingbull: Your statements didn't seem like gossip to me, but they aren't strictly "logical conclusions" either. You took some evidence and guessed at a cause. No big deal, but your assertion is not backed by facts of any kind. None of us here know what happened to Haley yet. Dr. P
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 10:08PM
I suppose you never run out gas, and make yourself a gas whore? Awesome, I don't drive either. Driving a car makes you a gas whore, I would love to hear a logical argument against that. It is unlikely. Unless you use a specialized fuel source welcome to being a gas whore. part of a major problem. Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 10:11:06 PM
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 10:11PM
Please prove me wrong. I doubt you can if you drive a car.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 10:21PM
Thanks Dr. P, I agree with what you said. I don't know anything, I am just saying that their is more then a chance that Chico or drugs had something to do with her death. As far as Conquistador's gas whore argument, well I don't sell my body to get gasoline, if I did then yes I would be a gas whore. And, I agree not all porn performers are desperate. As I stated in an earlier post, for some it just rolls of they're back backs, Hailey wasn't one of those girls.
I'm not here to fight. But I really don't get your logic. How is buying a consumer good an act of "being a whore" ? Sure gas is perceived as being expensive in this country, and most of us need to use it to go places. But how is that somehow degrading or insulting or an act that would shame a normal person? Dr. P PS: Perhaps we should move this aspect of the conversation to World News and Nonsense, presuming either of us have an interest in continuing the discussion.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 10:33PM
I just drank a Miller Light and I am wearing a Polo, so see I am a Miller Light whore and a Polo whore....man I probably give the worst head of any whore in the world...man..i think I am going to drive my car in a 1/2 an hour...GOD I AM A FUCKING WHORE!!!!
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 10:34PM
I live in a place with ample public transit. Owning a car is a selfish gesture. If you use a car at all you are dependent on gay, thusly gas whores. If there is something intelligent to be said about owning a car I would love to hear what it is.
I'd like to say something that may be interpreted as gossip. Don't really care. We're human, we TALK (in this case type) about things, especially something as salacious as this. I think Chico Wang killed Haley Paiga a.k.a. Maryam Haley. Concrete proof? Of course not. Just what I think. Why? He was put in jail for beating her, with a pistol, most likely, and made bail. He was incarcerated for rape over 10 years ago, and that is a FACT. He has some of the most misogynistic and foul vids in porn, that many (including me) interpret as bordering on abuse, and at the least, disrespectful, of women. A trusted source at another forum, an employee of a certain magazine, had first-hand confirmation from the coroner that this was NOT an overdose death. That leaves the other option of the two presented. Now we can get into all the murky grey areas that people who are guilty (and cowardly) like to bring up. Maybe he was upset that she went back to drugs after he tried so valiantly to help her, and they got into an argument and he pushed her away after she attacked him, and she hit her head on a shelf. An imaginative mind can come up with endless scenarios like that. I still believe Chico Wang killed her. It's entirely circumstantial, and I'll be the first to apologize if it's shown otherwise....
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 10:39PM
Well I have gone through periods where I didn't need a car and didn't have one. This was when I lived in central Chicago, so I was fine without a car. Now, I live in Dallas which has little practical public transportation. So I am guessing you live somewhere with public trans. maybe Manhattan. As to an argument for owning a car: Its reliable, convenient, and I like listening to music on car stereos. This is America and we chose long ago to invest in Highways not trains etc... So take your complaints up with policy makers, not little old me.
Lets switch threads and discuss what independent thinkers being drivers makes us. You got a car that runs on normal gas? I have a rope and a tree that run on normal friction to keep the knots done. You are making things worse for everyone. EDIT: Unless you have broken legs you are a human piece of shit if you aren't walking. Thank my lungs. Edited by - conquistador on 10/6/2007 11:03:32 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 11:06PM
You are ridiculous, and I agree to this isn't the place because I don't want the one thread dedicated to a sad incident to be closed. And to Senor Conquistador I am a driver and other people rely on me sometimes so that comes above your righteous bullshit.
Very sad news . It´s also sad to know that she wanted to work as a psychologist , get out to the people , help persons with issues , contribute to society ; and that she could not fulfill her wishes . I liked her work , unfortunately what I saw in the gangbang auditions ( chico style ... ) was far too agressive for my taste , no need for all these humiliating practices . I hope that at least it will serve as an eye-opener , and that all these beautiful girls and women who give pleasure to men´s eyes are treated as persons , and not as meat-whatever , whores or slaves ... Hopefully this c-wang-style and it´s imitators will stop now, and that new directions will be taken ... Edited by - airtight_fanatic on 10/7/2007 4:46:54 AM
all speculation aside, I'd like to say a few things about the unfortunate loss of Haley Paige. so far in my time/years in porno I've met a couple of people in XXX that have died one way or the other. one of them was a very good friend in Jon Dough. another was Brittany Madison whom I had shot early on whilst w/gangbangsqauad. but Haley is the first of whom I had 'performed' with, and lemme tell you, it really angers me to know that her demise is now actual, and not just some lame XXX rumor. Haley was a real sweetheart, not a mean bone in her body that I could see in my limited times around her. there's nothing else to really say here because this whole situation sucks. goodbye Haley, you were nothing less than a smiling face to go w/ a warm person underneath EVERY time I talked to you, which is a rare commodity here in this big, angry city. R.I.P.~ Haley Paige. lates, Von S.
she let me move in with her when my boyfriend was cheating on me, she bought me a barbie to cheer me up and we spent the night doing their hair. I left cash and pills and clothes around and she never touched any of my stuff. She smelled like vanilla. she never asked for anything and always took me to eat and picked me up for shoots. she was honestly innocent and trusting, i remember her telling me about a guy she was secretly dating when we were at the beach after I had moved out... and i realized i had given him a blow job off camera on set the week before when i was on his set, I was so upset, I didn't know what to do. I never would have done that to her if I would have known. she was a good person and I believe she is at rest.
