Alan Keyes' daughter: I'm a 'liberal queer'
Marcel-Keyes' blog according to the article

I am glad that your family accepted your sexuality orientation. It is rather sad that some families don't. If I recall correctly, this is probably the main reason why homosexual teenagers have one of the highest suicide rates. Heterosexual people need to learn "tolerance".

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But it's an interesting question you've asked here. You should know that there have been a lot of theories going round about the origin of sexuality. Various scientific ones, religious ones even random thoughts. One scientific one intrigues me very much (I'll spare you the medical mumbo jumbo, but I could dig it up for you if you'd like to know), but most of them are just incorrect at some spots and therefore invalid.

I tried to look for a solution myself and came to the conclusion that it at least has to be a combination of factors (genetic factors plus the outside world that influences a person) that makes a person gay. Or into cars. Or into collecting. Or (yada, yada, yada).

Thinking about that however made ponder about the relevancy about this investigation of mine. Why do I want to know? Will it hurt me or anyone else if I or any other person didn't find the solution? There surely isn't a disease that I need to cure?

The only reason I could think of, was that it would be a enormous breakthrough in genetic studies, but I instantly also realized the dangers of that. You see, if people could tell by the genetic structure of someone if he or she is going to be gay (which is not even sure at that moment, at least not according to my theory) they'll try and mess with that structure to make that person more heterosexual. And maybe some other nasty stuff while there at it too.

Other things, like studying homosexual animals are still interesting to me as I like to know if it has a function (like with lions), but just to that extent. I'll probably sound very conservative right now, but I hope that you understand that I'm just examining the possible dangers.

And as for your nephew, of course I haven't seen the kid, but do keep in mind that kids are still exploring at that age. Maybe he was just experimenting. Just have a few talks with the kid that it's inappropriate what he was doing and see how things go. Maybe he'll grow up wanting to spend his life as a celibate.

''All power corrupts, but we need the electricity. ''

Edited by - Valentino on 3/21/2005 7:08:19 PM

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''All power corrupts, but we need the electricity. ''

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We are all God's children.

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The overwhelming majority of thought on the matter is that being gay is something considerably more than a “lifestyle choice” as the religious right and others suggest. Personally, I think there is a genetic component that accounts for most of it and environmental/social/learning factors account for only a very small part. Many gay people, me included, view the suggestion that being gay is like preferring chocolate ice cream over vanilla as insulting at the least. And that notion is, of course, at the basis of the idea that some sort of therapy can “turn” a gay person straight. I’ve yet to see any convincing evidence that even one person has accomplished this amazing feat. And the fact that it is seemingly so difficult even in the face of “apparent” strong desire to turn straight argues, to me at least, fairly conclusively that something genetic is at work here. This is also partly why I get annoyed (putting it mildly) at that part of the religious community that says, “Love the sinner; hate the sin.” Sorry, but “the sin” is interchangeable with who I am. It is nothing can or would want to change. Fortunately, for those of us who have religious yearnings, there are denominations that welcome and embrace people as they are.

As I said in the previous thread:

Billy

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Just as an aside, you might be interested to know that I've discovered some new terms: homoflexible and heteroflexible. These terms refer to people who identify predominantly as either homo or hetero respectively but who are open to experimentation.

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Plants Can Fix Bad Genes, Study Shows

I also forgot to mention that I was at a friend's birthday party for his daughter. My friend's wife's father brought his dog to the party. The whole thing the dog was hump only one guy's leg (nobody else leg). I was cracking up and commented that "he must really like you". The guy said, "he smells my dog from home". I told my friend about what happen and he told me the dog is gay. They tried mating the dog with other Chihuahua females, but never say any sexual interest. When the dog is around other male dogs is tries humping them. When I saw the guy again and the dog was trying to hump his leg again, I ask him the sex of his dog from home and he said he had a male dog. Which makes you think is "being gay" really a choice? Someone mentioned in another threat that gay sexual orientation has been found in 132 other species. Given this and knowing that human beings and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure rather than just for mating purposes, makes you wonder if the human has been wrong all this time about homosexuality.

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There exists somewhere in academia a text translated from Egyptian hieroglyphs dating back well over 3,000 years describing how to weed out recalcitrant bulls who had no interest in heifers, so it's nothing new and it couldn't be more natural.

BTW, I've gotten another update regarding the penguins from my cousin (posted on that thread).

~ GaySatyr (ABB)

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Personally, I am an open-minded person and I am religious in my beliefs. Personally, I hate it when religious figures or religious people speak out against certain "sins" or tell people that they are "going to hell for living in sin". No one has the right to judge another person's actions or sins unless you are God. Personally, I hate this "moral movement" (I'll never get prostitution legalized during this movement. ). Since when was lying about going to war with Iraq a "moral thing to do"? Since when is trying to strip the social programs that help the poor a "moral thing to do"?

Edited by - squirtfan1 on 3/24/2005 2:37:26 AM

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Back to the subject, Squirt, I am curious (now don't think i'm trying to hit on you), have you ever thought of trying it? have you ever wondered what it would be like to be with a man? I've asked other straight men in this forum the same question so now it's yoru turn. As a youth/teen, did you ever wonder? I know that's the time when one's mind may wonder what it would feel like?? and if you did or thought about it, what made you not do it (people finding out, being labeled, etc.)

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I admit that I am somewhat a homophobic. When I used to work at a grocery store, I was hit on by more guys (even a priest) than women (I live a mile or two from Boystown in Chicago). In the beginning, I was somewhat flattered but consist persistency used to upset me. I am generally respectful to other people as long as they show respect to me. If a homosexual is respectful to me and does not hit on me, I am generally respectful back to them.

So far, I worked with three homosexual men (easily noticeable - flamboyant) during my life. The first guy most much older but cool to talk to. I never felt "threatened" (to be hit on) by him. I never discussed his sexuality or my sexuality, strictly a professional relationship, like most people I knew at work. The second guy was cool. I never felt "endangered" of him hitting on me. He was the first gay guy I talked about homosexuality about. I wanted to hear what his thoughts were, since I never understood the "gay culture". His life story was sad, because of all the abuse and beats he took for "being different". We become good friends at a professional level and I invited once to a straight night club (surprisingly he brought two women), but once I left my job, I never talked to him again since it was only on a professional level. The third and last homosexual was somewhat rude and hit on me a lot. After he noted that I did not like it, he stopped.

Some background one me: No one in my family is openly gay and no one seems homosexual, except for my cousin's nephew and my friend's dog. My cousin suspects that her brother-in-law goes both ways, since his best friend is a priest and he used to hang out a lot with his gay cousin when he was a kid. This is the father of the nephew that my cousin thinks is going to be gay. Another twist to the story: they think the child is someone else's since the boy looks like his best friend who also screwed his wife around the same time. My cousin thinks she married him for his family's money and wealth. They had two child after getting married. One of my best friend's brother is bisexual and so is his girlfriend. I would never have thought him as being gay, but my best friend suspended it. As far as I know, those are the closest I came to knowing homosexual people. I still do not understand "the culture", but as you may notice I am trying to understand it and become "tolerant" of the "gay culture" and their issues.

Generally, I like hearing stories from people about their backgrounds, so I can understand things I can never imagine. I used to discuss immigration and my friend's hardship in Iraq (early 70s). He used to tell me stories about the middle east (they have only secret strip clubs or brothels for politicians - I guess their politicians are no different from our hypocrite politicians ). He used to tell me about his family in Iraq during the Iraq war. He used to share both of his sides about the war (he had a nephew fighting for the U.S. and family still in Iraq). He just wants peace to his country and he is glad of the outcome and wishes the insurgents (mostly non-Iraqis) out of the country. My friend is Assyrian and they are one of the most nicest people that I met. Once you are accepted by one family member, the rest of the family members treat you like one of the family (more like a King).

I talked about immigration from people from Mexico and learning their hardships on trying to make a living and becoming a citizen of the U.S. I visited Guadalajara, Mexico in a very poor neighborhood to understand what it must be like to be growing up in such condition. Their poor people are so polite. They will do anything for a peso or a dollar, but watch out when you do because it is like giving one pigeon bread and all of a sudden a bunch of pigeons flock to you.

I have many friends from the Philippines that came to America and they tell me their stories and backgrounds. I was invited to go to the Philippines in May, but I had to decline.

I used to talk with the immigrants from many other countries at work too. I knew a very little words or phrases in many different languages (Spanish, Greek, Italian, French, Russian, Polish, Korean, Portuguese, Assyrian, Arabic, Chinese (Mandarin), and Croatian)

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So what type of women do you like? And who are yoru favorite porn stars? I don't know all of the women ones, but i'm trying to figure out what's so hot about Jenna Jamesison? I wasn't feelign that, but I guess you ahve to be straight to get it ha? I see you are an avid poster in other forums, you seem to like current/world events. If I may ask, what is your race if it's not offensive? if it is i'll understand. You seem like you'd be very muscualr with dark hair, tall with a shadow beard. I know I may be wrong (LOL).

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I want to travel to Italy and Greece for its art and architecture, Brazil for La Carnival, Peru for Machu Picchu, Spain for Ibiza and its parties and any other South American country for its women. I am open to travel to other place with my close friends, like Philippines, Mexico and Costa Rica.

As far as the third guy, I am nice to everyone in general and I smile a lot, so I must have messed up his "gaydar".

I try to keep up-to-date on current events.

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Nothing wrong with keeping up with current events. I try not to watch the news, it's always so depressing, unless it's something that keeps being thrown at you and you have no choice but to hear about it (the Schaivo case for example).

I was reading the news page for the d.c. area and a 9 year old boy was shot in d.c. while out playing wiht his friends, how sad is that, he's in grave condition. I hope they find the bastards that did that!! They don't think the child was the intended target.

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From my own viewpoint I knew I was attracted to men (more so than women) from an early age (I'd say about 10). I say 'attracted to men" as this is my definition of being gay. Prepubescent childhood curiousity with other kids bodies does not, to me, seem a particularly heplful way of defining sexuality. Having said I was attracted to men I then ended up getting married but coming out in my 30's. I'll spare you that long story.

Kinsey's data collection long ago also came to the conclusion that we all (men and women) have homosexual 'desires' to some point but I guess someone who is "95% straight" doesn't have much trouble ignoring their 'gayness'. This also seems to account for those who go from straight to gay and visa versa: they are not cured or whatever, they simply are acting on other desires they feel. Go see the recent movie: it dramatisied very well his findings.

So for me I'm fairly well convinced that we are born with our sexual desires 'hard wired'. I guess that means its genetic (but there may be many genes involved) or is a result of chemical activity during development in the womb.

I've gotta add here--but in a friendly tone--you Americans need to discover the rest of the world or at least stop watching so much Fox. LOL.

The 'it's a lifestyle choice' is, by and large, a construct of the US conservative christian right that has carried to similar conservatives internationally. I know that mainstream churches here (in Australia) and in the UK and Europe don't subscribe to this mantra with much fervour. They accept, as part of our more enlightened scientific world, that homosexuality is 'natural'. They accept that it is described in the bible as a sin but bear in mind the historical context of biblical teachings. A literal reading of the bible would turn even the most conservative christian into 'hell fodder' by their 'lifestyle'. The list goes on and on, from a prohibition on eating shellfish to borrowing money at interest. I suppore the debate of literal v allegory with respect to the bible will go on for a long time yet.

By the way, and off the topic a bit, you might be interested in knowing that many homosexuals (of both sexes) are keen to become parents and are using various (sexual and non sexual) techniques to achieve this. Being gay doesn not stop people wanting to fulfill their 'humanness' it just means they do it differently.

cheers.

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I forgot to mention that I read "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life: The Breakthrough Program for Conquering Anxiety, Depression, Obsessiveness, Anger, and Impulsiveness". Interesting read. I read it for my panic attacks because of anxiety. Though the book does not deal with sexuality, the author of the book believes that the chemicals produced in one's brain is hereditary. This may be the reason why a family can have a history of anxiety, depression, panic attacks, etc. My family has a history of anxiety problems, panic attacks, and ulcers in the gastrointestinal tract. Given this, I wonder, is it possible that "homosexuality" is hereditary considering the brain makes the voluntary or involuntary decisions? I have also heard of identical twins being separated at birth and do not meet each other for over 20 years, yet they have the same hair styles, taste in clothes, same academics, and same interests. Does this mean that humans are "destined" to become who they are?

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No, I'm not here to be obnoxious.

I just want to weigh in with my observation: a lot of the gay people I've known over the years knew they were attracted to the same sex from the time they were quite young, like the child you mention, sf1.

As for myself, I can remember being 4 or 5 and recognizing something about Barbara Eden and Elizabeth Montgomery and Lynda Carter that was interesting to me in ways I didn't feel about men.

In other words, there was an entirely different "buzz" to watching The Six Million Dollar Man as opposed to Wonder Woman or Charlie's Angels . I knew way back then that I liked girls, a LOT.

So, I'm in the camp of those who believe that a large part of sexuality is that we're just born wired the way we are.

As for the bisexuality theory, I don't know. I can only speak for myself. I can dispassionately see attractiveness in another man and not feel anything sexual toward him at all. I think Bruce Willis is a good-looking man, but I don't want to fuck him or get fucked by him.

I just hope I look that good when I'm his age. (Don't worry; I will. )

Gay, to me anyway, is less about who sticks what in whom, and more about who we decide to form intimate, long-term relationships with.

Sex is sex. It's just body parts and fluid-swapping. I may prefer the feel and scents and sounds of a woman in the throes of orgasm to what I imagine it would be like to be with a man, but get enough liquor in me and I'll try anything...

But seriously, I have a pair of aunts who've been married (as far as they're concerned) since the 70s. They raised one of my aunt's two kids from her previous (obviously to a man) marriage as their own. And they're still together. They must love each other or something. Now, that's gay!

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I guess that was porn for 10-year-olds in the 60s.

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squirtfan1 wrote

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My childhood friend, whom I have known for 25 years, has always been gay. And he is of the opinion that he was born that way. In junior high school, when the switches and knobs of sexuality start to turn on and twist, he was attracted to other men. It was odd for me at first, because he was different than me, but he is my best friend, so I didn't care. Here in the south, it was not easy for him, so the whole idea that he chose to be that way is just horseshit.

I think that even with all the advances in science, the human brain remains one of the last remaining 'leaps' forward. That said, it insults my intelligence to call being attracted to the same sex a 'disease' to be cured. I believe its hard-wired into the brain that way, for whatever reason. We don't even understand what chemical reactions occur when we are happy or doing something we enjoy, much less understand brain patterns that make up our behavior.

Sorry about that, I seemed to rant there a bit.

The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled.-Plutarch

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''Nature never deceives us; it is we who deceive ourselves. ''

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-T.C.

Comstock Films:Real Life, Real People, Real Sex

Edited by - TonyC on 3/30/2005 3:01:24 PM

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(Now don't hate me for being a nitpick )

''Nature never deceives us; it is we who deceive ourselves. ''

Edited by - Valentino on 3/30/2005 4:41:09 PM

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''Nature never deceives us; it is we who deceive ourselves. ''

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''Nature never deceives us; it is we who deceive ourselves. ''

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Nah, I don't hate you Val. Kill you, yes, but not hate.

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The only time I think the choice aspect comes in is if you choose to go with your heart, or with what other people expect of you. If you are a guy, then they expect you to be with women. If you are a girl, then they expect you to be with men. When you get to that age when you start dating, and having sex, and all of that, you choose if you will go with what you want, or with what others want from you.

I went to a really conservative Christian high school, and I know that some of the guys there were gay, but would never act on it, or admit it, because they knew that if they did admit it, there was a good chance they would by lynched (not really). I just decided that I would go with what was already inside me, and with what I knew I liked. And I didn't get lynched! Actually... I didn't even loose any friends. Man was my coming out dull! Even my parents were mellow about it. Guess I got lucky. Now, when my brother came out...

Actually the hereditary (sp?) thing may be true. I'm adopted, so my brother doesn't count. But my biological sister is bi. So, who knows. It might be!

Edited by - RubyRed on 3/31/2005 7:25:48 AM

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And that is only the short version.

''Nature never deceives us; it is we who deceive ourselves. ''

EDIT: to change 'nerves' to 'nerve-cells'

Edited by - Valentino on 4/1/2005 2:57:00 PM

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Did your brother came out before you did?

''Nature never deceives us; it is we who deceive ourselves. ''

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That is when the ism's popped up in my brain. Social interaction between different "cultures."

I'm an open minded guy so why do rainbow coasters bother me? Do they really bother me? No the coasters didn't bother me. What bothered me is that I thought the rainbow coasters were "gay" and if the coasters bothered me am I a Gayist?

One remark I made during the evening was, "Damn, this place is so gay yet manly." Both of my hosts laughed. But the remark was somewhat "gayist" and derogitory. After all they are men, so why wouldn't the place be manly?

As a socially accepted hetero I generally classify "gay" men into three categories, none of them meant to be derogitory. Gay, Flamer and Fruitloop.

Elaboration: I view the Gay man as a regular guy who is into men, I view the Flamer as a flamboyaunt gay man who is cleary gay and doesn't care what people think, and the Fruitloop a man who talks with a lisp and is way beyond gay.

Sorry to make this so short and I really hope I didn't offend anybody with my generalizations. I'll be offline for the weekend, take care all and remember this post is from an ignorant person.

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Although now they are in real hell, cause I think he's trying to get in to a boy band. They can handle two gay sons... but a son in a boy band is just shameful.

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The classification thing isn't bad. Everyone makes snap judgements, and all of that. It's when you use those classifications to hurt someone, or put someone on a lower level.

I make snap judgements all the time, but I learn to not hold on to them once I get to know people, or know a new culture, or whatever.

Most straight men are still uncomfortable around gay men (some violently so), but it's getting over the discomfort, and getting to actually know people that makes someone a better person.

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