I don't think the non-rough sex lovers wll be forced out of the mainstream. They may just not be the 'vocal' ones.

DenverDon <<<<[[[[

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Just cause we don't want "rough" sex does not mean that we do not desire seeing well shot scenes with anals, facials, etc. Indeed, a lot of the Vivid stuff bores me as much as it does you I imagine.

For example, some of Peter North's "North Pole" and "Anal Addicts" scenes have all the raincoater sex, but without all the rough stuff.

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Rough sex titles, or those that have at least some element therein, are more popular today than ever, that is true. But I also highly doubt it will become the standard. There will always be people who like it and people who do not, the market will produce what the consumer wants. And since there will always be varying points of view, you will always be able to find what you want. Cheers.

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I just quit watching gonzo/all-sex titles entirely. Not that there aren't some without this element, it's just that it has gotten so common. Even in series that were fine, all of a sudden you're looking at spitting, choking, slapping, girls getting their head stepped on.

There's over 40 sub-genres listed, but no 'rough sex' designation. My guess is that the job would be overwhelming.

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Some of the stuff coming out is close to violent.

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Sometime during 2003-04 or thereabouts something changed, and seemingly all movies put out by the gonzo companies, even movies whose titles give no suggestion that they might contain any rough stuff, are full of new inexperienced girls getting completely overrun by the usual thugs. Zzzzzz.

It's not just RLD/PXP. The press releases and cover texts from the smaller newcomers sound exactly the same.
Big company Evil Angel seems to be just the same too.

Looking at Elegant Angel's latest trailers and cast lists, they're doing the same.
Even the next Squirtwoman will propably read "Watch these ********* ****** get throatfucked, assreamed, and squeezed so hard they squirt."

I gave DVSX a chance but got burned there too.

No more. I'm just not willing to risk any more money on those companies.

Where to find porn without this crap?
Well, I've found no other way than to stick with the big feature companies (some of them put out gonzo too) or older titles.
And I don't mean Vivid. I stay away from them too, for other reasons.

That does require a tolerance for condoms.

It may also mean missing out on even those of the newer starlets who don't come off as naive exploited teens, but actually seem to know that they're doing.

Where would one go to see a movie with a girl like Christie Lee, who's both very cute and sounds like shes got her career under control?
I haven't a clue. There may be some movies with her that are just fine, but as they're from companies that put in rough bits without warning and reviews don't mention it anymore, I'm not willing to chance it.

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Prometeus

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I think that the comments from DB and KPerv represent a HUGE market that is barely being served. It now takes a ton of marketing to reach that market.

If someone has the wherewithal please start a list of movies with intense sex without head stomping.

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When photographic porn was hard to get, the I-can't-believe factor was probably enough. Unfortunately, most pornographers can't conceive of how to make depictions of sex compelling without the I-can't-believe factor, so they're forced to continuously up the ante: double, triple, spitting, choking, etc. Of course all these things can be very, very hot when properly contextualize, but that takes talent and hard work. The I-can't-believe gambit is easy. It's also easy to overdo.

And man oh man is it being over done. In a few short years we've gone from "I can't believe what I'm seeing" to "I can't believe that anyone actually finds watching this enjoyable."

I think Steph is right, I think there is an underserved market made up of people like DB and Kperv. Is it vast? Who knows? I'm pretty sure that a whole lot of people got laid last night and there wasn't any spitting, choking, gaping or throat fucking (well maybe a little throat fucking . Of all these people who got laid last night (with no spitting, choking, gaping or throat fucking), I'd bet a few of them wouldn't mind seeing a well-produced video that depicted an idealized version of sex the way they enjoy it. I'd bet they'd like that a lot.

Just how many such people there are is the $64K question.

-T.C.

Comstock Films: Films For People Who Like Sex

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My wife and I like rough sex in our personal lives so it's naturally something I like/want to see. Now I have seen rough sex scenes I didn't like, a Nacho scene comes to mind...

As for the head stomping, I don't dig that either. Slapping, spitting and choking I do like. And as for gagging, as in throat fucking, I'm not really keen on, but I can stand it more than head stomping.

My personal view on this is that, yes this is a male driven industry, but I can't image all these girls letting guys 'beat them up' (which I don't agree that these girls are getting abused...). Personally I think some of these girls like rough sex - examples, Christie Lee and Melissa Lauren, both have stated they like rougher sex. Hell, i just watched Angels of Debauchery #3 and Christie actually tells Joaquim Kessef to choke her several times!

This is a very controversial subject anymore.... I still say there's no right or wrong on this subject, just preference.

To answer the question at hand, I have no idea how it became so popular. My only guess is that it was going on and no one complained.

P.S. Couldn't it be said Zero Tolerance is on the safe list? For what ever reason I can't recall any of the aforementioned things appearing thin their movies - at least not often.

Edited by - PL on 3/1/2005 2:03:55 PM

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I think Simon Wolf director Robert Herrera is against Choking.
Because i have seen 11 SW movies, No Choking in those.
And also i have read several reviews from wcareviews.com and cavr.com, and looks like all Simon Wolf movies from Robert are Choking free.

And sometimes in BTS we see that Robert wanna make sure that there is no gagging.
And only close to gagging thing i have seen in SW movies was in some flick where girl did blow guy and did take it little bit too deep, Guy did not force her or anything.

I think i have seen some butt slapping in those, but no face or tits slapping, and even butt slapping was not that hard.

Edited by - 1on1Fan on 3/1/2005 2:58:51 PM

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I did thank Den once via email, but thanks again Den for being against Choking and for doing great job with reviews.

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In my movies I fuck the girls as if I would do without a camera. And many girls like it rough. You will not see me slapping or choking a girl against her will.

I might drive away some customers and loose some revenue, but I don't want to compromise on the sex.

Steve Holmes

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Personally I think Max has every right to make what he does, I just don't dig it.

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It's like this, rough sex is becoming the norm in porno. You gotta ask why? Currently the Gonzo thing is in overkill, half, if not all really sets the scenes up to degrade. Yes, even Steve's movies, I have seen them. You try to get off on them, then you see the girl tossed around like a ragdoll. Kinda makes you think, how many girls would really liked to be treated like that. The problem is, GONZO is meant to portray a kinda reality, not fantasy. If it all was about fantasy, then that would explain the reasons behind it, but since it's based on a reality perspective, or as Steve put "reportage" feel - that can be disturbing.

Don't get me wrong, I know and have known girls that like it rough. But there is a line. Sometimes I think Gonzo type porno crosses it. Also, I aint some puritan.

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m_burlock

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m_burlock

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As for the girls wanting work and lying, well, that's on them. If they say OK to it, and that's what the company/director is after, then it's fair game to me. Most can stop a scene if something goes too far or is not right. Many have done it and here recently there was a thread about Chanel Chavez stopping an anal scene because she couldn't take it. For example, Brandon Iron is one of the guys I know who does rougher stuff, but cares for girls. He always asking if they are OK and so on. I just don't think rough sex means they don't care for the girl. I still stand firm on my ground of is she says it's OK, then it's OK... I know it's not the popular thing here to be on the side of rough sex, but that's OK, the way I see it, it's just difference in opinion.

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In my movies I wouldn't shoot a scene like this. I want to see the girl really getting off.

Steve Holmes

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When I entered this business just over 3 years ago, I expected to see a bunch of lost chicks being taken advantage of. I could not have been more wrong. I'm still amazed at how much control so many of these women have over their sexual desires and their bodies. I think it's just a different era/generation, and it's a very new mentality that many find it difficult to relate to.

Edited by - mason on 3/6/2005 12:36:51 AM

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Edited by - Loraine on 3/6/2005 1:45:23 AM

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I also realized a change in the type of girls in the 8 years I'm doing it. Everybody in the business wants to make money, but there are more and more girls who really enjoy the sex on set. And it pays off. Their attitude make them so popular and successful.

Steve Holmes

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Have any of you seen the Rough Blowjob titles they sell in Japan? Those have got to be the absolute worst, but most people who are into rough sex would love them. Makes the "Gag Factor" series look really tame. I believe it's called the Compulsive Oral Sex Slave series. Nothing truly horrible, but I kind of feel sorry for the woman in them.

Strangely...I absolutely hate rough sex but I LOVE Japanese Bondage. Most all the Japanese Bondage I've seen doesn't have any actual sex in it though. Anything in bondage involving REAL non-consentual pain is just sick and wrong for me. A little discomfort is ok, that's kind of expected.

There's just something artistic in a way with how Japanese Bondage is done. I've seen american and european bondage and it's just so sick and wrong. It's all about pain and that's it it seems. Just not my kind of thing.

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(huge quote removed -steph)

Edited by - Steph on 3/7/2005 1:56:20 PM

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On the other hand , when I see slapping of any kind , hair pulling , choking , or a man stepping on a girl's head , I get very turned off and very pissed off.

When I see a man slapping a woman during sex , I wish that I could get into the scene and put his fucking head through the wall.

Intensity is great but alot of porn is just getting too rough , I find.

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Although alot of people on here complain about rough sex being overdone, I think it's the other way around. There is still plenty of plain straight vanilla porn being made out there for people who wish to see it, in fact more than rough sex as far as I can see. I wish more directors would place rougher scenes in their films because, as far as I have seen, there aren't nearly enough to satisfy the growing market of consumers (like myself) who wish to see them. Therefore, I encourage the directors to make more rough/female degradation scenes.

Additionally, I've noticed that a major criticism among people who don't like rough scenes is that they imply that the girls are being "forced" to do things they don't want to do. To the contrary, the girls who appear in these movies are not your pure and innocent girl next-door, neither are they your sweet and wholesome church-girl types. No indeed, they are Porn Whores, many of whom will tell you from their very own mouths that they enjoy what they do. Despite what so may posters on here tend to think, these girls do not want to be saved, neither do they feel they are being exploited (even though they are). I cannot recall how many porn scene interviews I've seen when the girl herself talks about how much she loves being treated like a piece of shit, which is made even more obvious by the fact that so many of these girls repeatedly return to do similar scenes involving roughness. They appear to get off on it, probably even more than their male counterparts do. Some of these girls even finish their scenes with huge smiles on their faces, proclaiming how much they loved it. Moreover, I've seen several interviews in which porn chicks will talk about boyfriends they've had, before entering the business, who put them on pedestals and treated them like pristine goddesses. Yet and still, these girls left their doting boyfriends (oftentimes because they say their boyfriends weren't "aggressive" enough and were pussies when it came to trying rough sex) only so they can go work for porn and get the kind of treatment from these porn guys that their boyfriends wouldn't give to them. Needless to say, porn whores are a special breed. Therefore, I don't really feel that alot of these girls have to really be "forced" into doing anything, but they do it because they like it. And even if they don't like it, what's the difference? They still do it, and they still get a paycheck. So, as an ardent fan of the "rough stuff" in porn, I say keep it coming, and that it can only get better the rougher it gets.

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If the girls are beating on a guy instead , that's fine with me. It's about time they take a beating and get humiliated instead of always the girls. In that case , I would jump into the scene and cheer them on , then have my way with all of them... if they would have me ???? Probably not !!!!

Regardless of the sales , I don't like that stuff , Skeeter ! To me , it's a turn off... but if that's the way it's going then What can I do , except voice my opinion , such as on this forum.

If all Gonzo gets this way , then I suppose I will just stop watching it !!!! No turn on , no interest !! Hopefully , a different genre will emerge with alot of intensity minus the rough stuff.

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I'm sure some girls can enjoy being dominated and treated in rough ways, but I like when the girl slaps back or somehow shows that she isn't just a victim of male agression... I can get turned on by it at the moment... but afterwards I think it's just plain wrong.

There will always a limit to what we can take I think, at some point most of us will be disgusted and not becoming desensitized.

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now ,can u please tell us the name of that movie of bridgette (i hope she will not edit out all those beautiful moments u mentioned)

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A few of my favourite female performers have quit the business in the last couple of years.
Of course, I can't know why they've quit. But isn't it feasible the increased roughness, they're apparently expected to submit to in gonzo flicks, may have played a role in their decision?

Perhaps girls who can't get enough work with the feature companies, choose to seek other employment rather than get put through the ringer like that.

All pure speculation on my part of course.

Vivid seem to do all right, despite their getting slammed repeatedly by quite a few ADT'ers. Including me actually.

Again speculation.

Ah well, no matter.
Luckily for me, I have no problem at all with condoms for penetration, so I'm able to find plenty of porn I like without the gonzo companies output.

If I did have a problem with condoms, I suppose I'd be limited to Kick Ass Pictures these days. Even Zero Tolerance surprised me with Drive Thru. Haven't bought a ZT movie since. ::shrug::

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I don't think Joey Silvera is so popular solely because he sometimes reverses the roles. I think he's popular because he manages to create some semblance of SUBSTANCE underneath the intensity in his scenes that takes it to a different level. The same can be said for Rocco, Nacho, and of course, John Sagliano. You can't make great porn by just stuffing a cock as far down a girl's throat as it will go. You have to make me believe that, for the participants (BOTH participants preferrably), there's something BEYOND just going through those motions.

It can all be faked. That's fine by me. As long as I believe it, it doesn't matter. By the same token, it could be as real as it gets to the perfomers as they are doing it, but if it looks fake to me, that's an equally large problem. Skeeter getting on here and telling us that the girls love every second of it doesn't make one bit of difference from an aesthetic standpoint. That knowledge alone is not going to convince me to like his work any more. I need to see it, or at least a convincing illusion of it, in the final product.

I think too many producers try to replace the much HARDER to achieve "chemistry and intensity" with the much more immediate and cheap "roughness" factor. When operating at their very best, Joey Silvera, Rocco, Nacho, and, when he wants to, Stagliano can somehow manage to actually achieve BOTH--a rare feat indeed.

I'd really like to see more variety in gonzo / all sex porn. It's not that I have any problems with rough sex, it's just that very little sex in porn seems to be aspiring to anything more than outdoing the other guy on the most superficial levels anymore. I wish producers could take a step back and start from the beginning. What is it about sex that turns us on? Although still certainly a valid part of it, there's so many other places that that question can lead us than balls to the wall "roughness".

I think... anyway. :)

Edited by - MLyons on 3/7/2005 1:35:51 PM

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-T.C.

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If there is enough commotion about non-rough sex movies, someone will be smart and pop one out and ses how it sells, if he doesn't get what he expects, he'll just not make another... or you can always hope for a start up company to start shooting "plain jane" sex acts.

As someone said in this thread, its a new generation/era and give it 5 years, you'll be complaining about something worse than "rough sex".

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There are some people,like me , who don't like soft sex ( ex. Vivid ). I want something very intense and that doesn't have to mean violent or overly rough. Spitting ,gagging, urinating. That's just messy , not necessarily violent.

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Unfortunately rough sex is the norm in porn at the moment. But we shouldn't confuse rough porno sex, with mutually consented rough sex in the home. I don't think porn is duplicating that. Instead it's a portrayal of overall dominance of the women in porn.

Also what is next? I mean if it's becoming like a wrestling match, or some sado machostic hammering of a woman - where is it going to go? It's bordering on violence now.

In the non porno world, I heard about this guy and girl having intense (rough) sex and she broke his dick - going at it too hard. So, if girls were rougher in porn, could the guys be more vulnerable, regarding their dicks?

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