I don't like most porn. It is based on the fact that the film shots suck.
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For example, I look for anything that Manuel Ferrara is in or directs, because there is no question that he loves women and can bring out the best of any woman that shares a scene with him.
Now that's some real talk there. I've lost count of how many scenes I've seen like that over the years. Some directors will get a stunt "cock" it seems, but usually it seems the show goes on anyway whether the guy can perform or not. The scene usually gets cut short. Well I don't know if that's true of the more modern stuff though. Again I don't think producers are as patient or greedy with that stuff these days. I think today's porn fan expect more.
I'm the first to agree that there's a huge amount of porn out there where the guy wasn't up to par. Having said that, when you start addressing higher quality production houses (Elegant Angel, Digital Playgrounds, Kink.com) you'll find that even if the male talent isn't necessarily great they're never actually bad. Producers and Directors have a job to do. Some producers are going to be in better tune with their audiences and their market than others are. Some approach their work as artists, others as craftsmen, and still others are mongoloids posing questions like "How many eggs can I stuff in a vag without having them crack." Railing against bad porn is like railing against government waste. You vote with your dollars. John
@ninja1 and Aplus: have you guys really ever watched a scene where the male talent couldn't perform AT ALL though? Like I'm talking he never gets a hard-on in any way, not even semi-hard? I've certainly never seen something like that, though I have no doubt it's happened before. And I have a feeling the reason why I've never seen that before is because those are, in fact, the scenes that end up not getting released, and end up costing the producers thousands of dollars. Actually, as just one example, I can remember reading one blog entry by a particular male performer who posts here often and his blog became famous because he posted about porn every single day in 2008 - making many friends and enemies in the process - in which he described not being able to get it up in any way, for whatever reason, during a particular shoot, and as a result the scene was a bust. So that's an example of a very experienced performer being completely unable to perform and costing the producer tons of money. If it happens to someone like that, surely there's a chance it could happen to a less-experienced performer - thus the producers' unwillingness to try out newer guys.
Again, I don't see it much in modern porn. Up till maybe 5 years ago, I'd say it wasn't that uncommon. Even the most skilled performer can have an off day every now and then. Usually they could get through the scene though and the rest would be edited down. I think producers understand these guys can't always perform like machines, especially given a high percentage probably work too often. These are usually guys who have worked successfully for years though. I seriously doubt a newbie will be afforded many, if any, bad performances. There appears to be a lot more guys in the industry now as opposed to then, so I think they usually have more choses or options.
I disagree with this. If you go route #1, then you stand the chance of getting black balled because many girls won’t want to work with you if they find out you do gay porn. Option #2… well, let’s put it this way. I’ve had girls tell me they will only shoot hardcore with "their" guy. Guess how many of those girls I passed on? All of them. How many other producers you think do the same? And I’m nobody. A big shot producer has even more reason to pass because they have many more girls waiting to shoot for them. Option 2 works much better if the producer needs guys for a DP or gang bangs and one of the girls recommends one of her male friends as opposed to an "I won’t work without him scenario". Of course there are other variables that can factor in as well. But, it’s all about experience and getting your foot in the door. I equate porn to be very much like professional wrestling. You wouldn’t expect to get a starring role in the WWE as some newbie just off the street. So either you have to know someone with the connections to get you in, have someone be willing to take a chance on you (not very likely due to all the reasons people mentioned earlier), or you have to start from the bottom taking whatever gigs you can get, till you build enough experience and track record for someone to give you a shot on their production. But a lot of people in this biz aren’t smart. They don’t possess the psychological know-how to effectively market themselves and build a career to get to where they want to be. There are a lot of new guys today... like myself ... that run their own productions and shoot their own stuff. It’s all about your abilities, what you want, and how you choose to go about getting it.
Yes. But maybe it's just older stuff and "off-brand" stuff. I don't follow the cutting edge so I'm not good at distinguishing old porn vs. new porn (if I haven't seen it, it's new to me). I mostly follow certain genre and/or certain girls.
xxaru: let's see here... Route 1: Peter North, Christian, Route 2: Trevor Zen (Lezley Zen), Travis Knight (Gina Lynn), Dane Cross (Faye Reagan), I don't even know shit-all about porn, and I came up with those five names in less than ten seconds in my mind. I'm sure others could think of a lot more. Are options 1 and 2 literally the only ways a dude can get into porn? Probably not. But I have a feeling they are far and away the most common ways. Perhaps I should add option 3: be a mope. Somehow, at some point, someone might notice that you're more well-hung or you can blow a bigger load than the average mope, and then maybe they'll try you out for something with a tiny bit more prestige and see how you do. If you're lucky you'll start climbing the ranks. But anyway: what you're talking about (and what you do - I just checked out your site and you have some hot girls) is a bit different from what we're talking about here. The OP (and then another guy) who posted here are asking about how they can get into the existing porn market, as opposed to starting something up themselves. Now it's likely that it would be smarter to start something themselves, but I was answering to what they were asking about. How to get into the existing market, and likely the mainstream porn market as well, I would guess. To do that, options 1 and 2 really are the most common ways to get there. Well, and pornlaw's story about being in a room with ten guys and blowing your load and video-taping it. I guess that can work too. [edit: fucked up sentences] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 6/12/2009 4:54:01 PM
KB, I wasn't saying your option 1 and 2 couldn’t work. I just disagreed with them being the "best" options for guys to break into the existing market. For one, I just don’t believe crossing over is as easy as you may believe. If that were the case then a lot more guys in the gay porn side would be shooting straight porn. And the second way has a lot of variables that can influence the scenario. I think having someone who’s already established in the biz, notice you/bring you in would be the "best" way to go. I also remember reading a story about Erik Everhard (don’t know if it’s true or not) how he did a shoot with a regular no name company... got the copy of his video and then shopped it around to every studio/producer until somebody finally put him in their video. That’d be another way to go about it.
I'd have to agree with xxaru; going the gay for pay route might land some short term work, but it forever carries the stigma of "that guy's gay." The hypocrisy of that issue goes a little beyond the scope of this thread (I mean, seriously, who complains that a girl has been 'gay for pay'?) but I'd say you potentially burn as many bridges as you build on that path. Option two is a little better, but as mentioned there are certainly enough producers who can score other hot girls without having to worry about her boyfriend being a Pain In The Ass. Especially with how the current economy is, you have big name girls scraping for $400 shoots when a year ago they were at $1200+ for b/g. The competition for work is just so fierce today, that producers have their pick of the litter; it's a buyer's market. Besides, how long before the girlfriend catches on that she's losing gig after gig because she'll only work with the boyfriend? Indeed, many girls who are open about their boyfriends take a gamble that their fans will ignore or tolerate the fact that she's not single/available. Back to the heart of the thread; there's just not that much money to be made as male talent. If you're looking to establish a career in porn, production is where the money is at. If you're just looking for an easy way to have sex with porn stars, you're better off becoming a financial guru, computer guru, or some other expert in a financially lucrative job, and shell out a grand for the many girls who also work as escorts who are happy to help you make 'private' videos. John
With the Internet reality porn explosion, wouldn't it be easier to get into the biz? A lot of sites just average guys. Naughty America is a good sized company. They've used a mixed up staple guys and people who appear to be Joe Blow off the street. I know Bang bros and Reality Kings have used new guys too. Or you can go the Facial Abuse/Amateur Allure/Black Bachelor route and try and start your own site. With all the Bukkake movies being made there has to be a sign up sheets somewhere,lol. Standards are probably completely different when it comes to working for a major dvd company. They don't seem to fuck around. But for smaller and web companies, it's anyone who can get an erection. Hell, sometimes they don't even do that. i bet it's even harder for a non hung black male to make it in the biz. You better be a Nat Turner,Marcus,Prince Yashua or Tyler Knight otherwise you stuck in off brand gangbangs and other shit like that. Just one fan who has never worked a day in biz opinion.
Can't speak much on the web shoots, but I'm not convinced most of those guys who appear to be amateurs, really are. From what I can tell, there does appear to be guys who work in the business occasionally. Guys you may not see that often unless you watch a huge variety of porn, which I do. I've had a few directors tell me not all shot footage is usable, making the need for true pros highly preferred. I also know that being able to get an erection is not the same as being able to sustain one. I think regular guys can do it more with pro-am stuff, since they can be shot differently with much less pressure. I've even heard some webmakers say they also prefer professionals. Again web shoots may be shot differently or simply with less pressure or expectations.
I think those are like the few big name male stars with gigantic cocks. And many of them are produced by these same big name male stars. And someone like Peter North has been around for a long time and is an icon in the biz so it's not surprising that he's on the box covers of many videos that are not produced by himself. And he's got a huge fan base of straight guys who secretly wishes to suck his cock. But you can't say that Peter North, Lex Steele, Mandingo, etc.. are the norm. I remember an interview on Howard Stern where that short guy, Michael J. Coxx, or something....said that he only made around $30,000/year doing porn. And this was when he devoted all of his effort in the business. This interview was around 6-8 years ago. Stern was astonished. Then Coxx said that he's doing better, now that he's also producing videos. Ron Jeremy said that his net worth is less than $1 million (HBO show a long time ago...around when he was on "The Surreal Life"), and according to his friends....Jeremy works like crazy (doing everything he can) and cheap as hell (ie. uses plastic bags as luggage). And isn't it true that the pay scale has dropped some since the introduction of Viagra? Since now it's easier for guys to get into the biz as opposed to before where it took more talent to get/keep it up w/o pills.
hehe they are "straight box cover[s] with a man as the featured performer" hehe "Peter North" isn't the "director & producer" and he's the featured performer "on the box"
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jun 22 2009 : 12:27AM
^and that is understandable because of Peter's unique talent for generating massive amounts of sperm, which is considered pretty hot by many males who post here and buy his work.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 11 2009 : 3:52PM
All of the posts on this thread thus far have been about getting into porn as a performer. I'd be interested to find out what people have to say about which avenues are available for getting into porn as someone on the BTS end of the business, such as a director, or cameraman, or agent, etc. I figure the easiest way is that you probably have to know someone in the industry, which is how I assume most of the BTS guys in porn get hired. But I'm just curious. And if you decide to go the entrepreneurial route by starting your studio, website, etc., then is the investment that it will require worth it?
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Rick James Jr Deactivated User
72 Posts 7/09
Posted - Jul 11 2009 : 5:14PM
my understanding is the only people needed in the industry now are cucks.
Some of the BTS jobs (cameraman, editor, lighting) require actual technical skills and abilities. So, presumably, just having connections isn't enough to get the job. OTOH some of the porn I've seen makes me question the competence of the cameraman and editor.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 12 2009 : 9:26AM
^Since people can be trained rather easily on how to do those jobs, I doubt if prior skills are always necessary.
I happen to disagree that these are "anybody can be trained to do it" types of jobs. That mindset practically guarantees mediocre results, because it overlooks the critical roles they play in the quality of the finished product.
Out of curiosity, what is the best way of getting a job as a director/producer for a large porn producing company such as Adam & Eve or Wicked? I don't have the faintest idea where one would start and think directing/producing would be a fun job. Would someone have to start by producing his own material online and hope he gets noticed or is there an application process? I realize that such a position requires a lot of travel and moving to the San Fernando Valley. Also, how would a job like that work? Would you be paid a salary/benefits and given a budget and script to work or are you paid per job and have to come up with money/staff/equipment/etc. to make the film on your own so that the large company can purchase the rights to it?
First you will have to stand in line. And its a very long line. AE, Wicked, Vivid, DP are creme de la creme and you just dont get a job with them. They chose who they want to direct for them. And usually their directors are hired for life.... Once in a while they will bring someone new in. Hustler -- maybe but usually you have to cut your teeth with smaller companies and work your way up to them. As for compensation directors are paid a fee. Each job they do gets them another fee. Usually they are director/videography/photographer/editor/composer. My GF does everything on her films from casting to composing the music to final editing and authoring. When she is done with a movie she hands it to the company and its ready for replication. But she is not the norm. The more you can do the better chance you will have to get a job as a director.
Ditto. You don't start at the top in any industry, unless you possess spectacularly unique and valuable skills. Everyone else in every industry starts near the bottom and works their way up (barring some connection to someone at the top already.) If you're really that enthusiastic about work as a director or producer in porn, start directing and producing. Raise your own capital, demonstrate your skills, and wait for the (what is, in reality, a very small) industry to take note of those skills. If you're mediocre, you'll eventually end up finding a mediocre paycheck waiting at a mediocre production company. Rest assured, I'm not trying to piss on your parade. Everyone deserves the success they deserve; it's just very common for people to assume they are entitled success irrespective of the success they have earned. Regards, John
^Thank you for your honest answers (more input from others is still welcome). Also, I assure you John that you weren't pissing on my parade (I am usually the blunt type as well and I appreciate such an answer). I had expected that there was a process and that I couldn't just walk into Adam & Eve's offices and start directing. If I were to pursue adult films, that would be a goal and not a starting point. From what you say it sounds like many have to start a small production company in order to get the experience to get into the bigger film industry (that may explain why Luc Wylder has Fallen Angel, Andre Madness has Madness Films, etc.). I had noticed that in Luc Wylder's case (watch his BTS scenes for proof of this one) he and his wife seem to do almost everything short of hold a video camera (his wife takes stills), from Pornlaw's answer it sounds like he is not the only one to work that way. Bud Lee's films seem to be somewhat the same way -- you see him doing many different things from directing to walking to his truck to get supplies to wiping down talent after a come-shot (he does seem to have more staff than Luc, though). Thanks again for the constructive comments. They are much appreciated.
No sweat. Originally, I'm also from Michigan. To get any traction in the industry, you're going to need a sizable talent pool, and probably someone to learn from. Michigan's just not the place to do that. If you want to be in any form of modern media, you have to be prepared to move (or spend a great deal of time in) Los Angeles. Doesn't matter if you want to be in movies, radio, television, or even run a puppet theater; LA is where you'll see others doing it right, and plenty of folk doing it wrong. I learned more about photography looking over the shoulder of Ken Marcus for one day than any hundreds of hours I could have spent scouring the net or watching a wedding photographer for months. Shooting with Jimmy D, Billy Watson, Brandon Iron, and a crew at kink.com set the bar for quality and efficiency for video production that I simply cannot imagine learning in a film school. Today, I have a film school graduate interning in our small company. Growing up in a farm town not far from Grand Rapids, I simply can not imagine having gained anything remotely like those experiences. Either you go where the work is done, or be prepared to be left behind. Warm Regards, John
^ I pretty much figured that Michigan is not the place to do porn -- it would land me in prison for sure here. BTW I live south of Ludington, which about 90 miles NW of Grand Rapids. I graduated from Grand Valley State University, so I am familiar with the GR area. I still have relatives that live in that area, also. I do understand that a few mainstream movies are being filmed in the Muskegon-Grand Haven area, but that is more for the lake than anything else -- but porn will never be filmed here as the arch-idiot government here believes that porn is the detriment of society (it's not, but we cannot convince Granholm and company of that).
Really, I wouldn't be so concerned about being found out for shooting; it'd be the headaches of trying to find enough talent on a regular basis to justify maintaining a studio in the area. Here, if I need lighting, camera gear, or a hot girl to shoot, I can come up with whatever I need in a matter of hours. In Grand Rapids, I'd have to have most gear I'd need ordered and set up days in advance, nevermind the headache of trying to convince new girl after new girl to do scenes. Southern California has a fully functioning talent pool of girls who are already seasoned professionals. The only people who know I'm shooting porn when I shoot it are the talent and my PA. My windows are opaque, my commercial neighbors know that we do photography and some video work here of a commercial nature. John
^Very true. Also, in Michigan you would have the headache of convincing the city government to allow you to shoot the outdoor, in town scenes such as in front of a house or office building, scenes in a car, etc. Here the governments are so money hungry that my guess is that it would cost big bucks in permit fees (compare to CA where Ron Jeremy says he can get permits at the same place as Disney does with no problems in LA County, and enough movies are shot there so that they governments don't feel the need to charge two arms and three legs). Also, convincing building owners to allow you to use their building in a movie (especially houses, where most seem to be shot) are slim to none, especially if they ask what kind of movie you are shooting! If I were to get into the industry, I would definitely do it in California. You and Charlotte having a studio in your home as well as doing BDSM films makes it a lot easier for you as most of them don't have a plot line requiring shooting in residential neighborhoods or office buildings (not saying that is all you do, but for those that fit that mold it would seem to be easier). Edited by - mharris127 on 8/22/2009 2:32:26 PM
Of course.... Before you even consider talking to an agent choose a stage name but make sure you can secure the domain name and all associated domain names for that stage name. For example if your name is Suzie Bigtits make sure that SuzieBigtits.com, .net, .biz, .info, .org ect are all available. Also make sure that ClubSusieBigtits.com ect are also available as well as SuzieBigtitsXXX.com ect are also available. You will need to spend $300-$750 on domain names. If you dont, once your name goes up on a website/DVD someone else will buy your names and then buy content of you and start websites for your fans and pretend to be you. Do the same for Twitter/Myspace/Facebook or people will pretend to be you on those sites as well. For women it is much easier to get into the industry but there are many more issue they need to be aware of. If you have more questions please feel free to email me michael(at)fattlegal.com Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com
That's silly. Thanks to the internet and the vast amount of porn of *every* kind out there... no guy would have to buy straight porn just to see a penis. You can get any kind of porn you want, any time you want it, in any way you want it... and usually for free. Nobody would make any money trying to cash in on the closeted-gay-male-who-watches-straight-porn-to-see-lots-of-penis crowd in the internet age.
I agree. Any clown is shooting porn.I think I have seen him in action. What do you think about Randy Spears?After reading some of your post, I see where you are coming from. The bottom line is this. Misogny in porn I take far more seriously than any theatric misandry in femdom and light S & M where men are submissive tools worshipping women. Is it a double standard. Yes, but I just don't take misandry seriously.
Clam digger, Please correct me if I am wrong but are you assertign that male homoexuality is motivating misogynistic images of women in porn. If this is your assertion I would contend that I would associate misogyny more with hetero men than gay men. I don't get how homoseuxality is part of the misogynistic images of women in porn? The gays I have seen are best friends with women. Again, if I am misreading your comment, please let me know.
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Master D Deactivated User
516 Posts 1/10
Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 12:20AM
I wouldn't get into porn, sure I loved to do all of these woman but not for an black person because of the racist stuff that is going on in the industy. I am foucs on a career as a video game developer right now and I am going to school for it. The best way for me is to enjoy porn is to watch it and enjoy having sex with a girl (btw I am a virgin and only 19).
Anniversary Lessons - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Jun 10 2009 : 12:29AM
... that run their own productions and shoot their own stuff. It’s all about your abilities, what you want, and how you choose to go about getting it.
hehe "Peter North" isn't the "director & producer" and he's the featured performer "on the box" 