How hard should a feature be?

Author	Post
pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 7:23AM I love watching features to gonzo, I prefer the professional lighting and camerawork and the fantasy they build... but sometimes I want something a little more extreme, something harder Porn should, at heart, be rude, to push the boundaries, and yet most porn features play it safe. Every now and then I would like to see a cream pie, or fisting (full hand, not that four-finger rubblish), something to really make me sit up. Do you agree or do you feel that porn features are hard enough as they are? [Link]
Yankey Doodel Member 283 Posts 11/05	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 6:55PM I haven't seen them, but I've read on here about two recent ones, called Corruption and Upload, that have this kind of thing. They're winning all sorts of awards. [Link]
Myload Senior Member A rose is what you are to me 2069 Posts 6/03	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 7:36PM I think that the sex in porn features should help with the story. If hard sex helps the story of one movie, then that's how it should be. If soft sex helps the story of another movie, then that's the way to go. The story should always be the focus of any feature film, so there's my answer. [Link]
BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 10:47PM If the feature is intended for the couples, hotel and cable markets, there's only so hard they can make it. Most wives and girlfriends just won't tolerate the more degrading treat-them-like-meat-puppets types of porn that some men enjoy. Hotels and cable companies won't show the harder stuff... they just really can't get away with it, and the financial consequences to the corporate owners could be enormous if the "Justice" Dept. were to go after them (and religious groups started to boycott hotel chains and attack cable operators). IMHO, "features" don't have to be couples friendly. But, they do need to be clearly marketed at the right audiences. Maybe HD will usher in a new era of quality camera and lighting across all genres. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 12:53AM As YankeyDoodel says, Upload and Corruption are recent features with very rough sex. There are a number of features from the 70s and early 80s that have some very rough sex scenarios as well (eg. Sex Wish, Waterpower, Femmes De Sade), they seemed more willing to have darker storylines back then. [Link]

Eli Cross Member What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06	Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 4:23AM FWIW, we honestly couldn't care less about the hotel market. The way those licensing deals are structured right now, companies are licensing their movies for literally pennies per room per year. What's the point? However, both Corruption and Upload have been extremely well received in the couples market. Partly because of the harder sex, and partly because in both cases the sex is integral to the story. I've been arguing for years that the idea most people have of the "couples market" and what they want is 20 years out of date and simply doesn't exist anymore. I do believe that women want a story more than men, but I think they prefer it to be good, and I think they want harder sex included in the bargain. Our success with these movies proves it. [Link]
leatherdick Member In the Court of the Crimson King 263 Posts 5/07	Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 4:41AM Eli Cross wrote: I've been arguing for years that the idea most people have of the "couples market" and what they want is 20 years out of date and simply doesn't exist anymore. I do believe that women want a story more than men, but I think they prefer it to be good, and I think they want harder sex included in the bargain. Click to expand In terms of my wife that's exactly how she feels. She can't stand the vanilla stuff allegedley aimed at women, Playgirl and such nonsense. Porn should be hard,edgy and creative. Don't treat female viewers like they can't take it. It's either good porn or it isn't. The depraved Bible Black hentai is also one of my wife's faves. [Link]
pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04	Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 12:24PM It would be nice to hear some women's views on this topic... but until they truly become vocal on this point we shall never know what they really want. The thing is that each porn production is aimed at a particular market and sticks to it rigidly: a couples DVD is all soft shagging, a hardcore is full of extreme stuff, a watersports DVD is full of... pissing, you get the idea. I get just as bored of 90 minutes of extreme sex just as much as I get bored of 90 minutes of softcore. What I would like to see is a production that surprises me by constantly changing the tone. I am looking forward to getting "Upload", maybe this will do the trick for me. [Link]
Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Dec 31 2007 : 5:29AM It's more important to me that the sex scene fits in with the story and the characters' relationship. Even the better porn actors seem to fall out of character and into "sex performer" mode during fuck scenes - performing the same way they do in every scene regardless of who their character is. Also, I don't like it when the story is largely unchanged by what happens in a sex scene. This makes no sense to me. Is it not part of the movie? I'm not drawn to fisting, double anal, double vaginal, or any other superhard thing. (Is creampie really considered more extreme?) In fact, when I stumble upon scenes that feature rougher activities, I tend to watch it with more of a scientific eye - like something on the Health Discovery channel with my head cocked to the side, squinted eyes and a furrowed brow. However, I do get supremely bored quite often with feature sex scenes. I don't think harder sex would fix that. It would just be a routine double anal pounding. I want to watch Eli Cross' stuff, but both Corruption and Upload are unavailable for rental at ADE and I don't buy any movies - porn or mainstream - sight unseen. Edited by - savoy on 12/31/2007 5:56:14 AM [Link]
Eli Cross Member What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06	Posted - Dec 31 2007 : 4:17PM Savoy wrote: I want to watch Eli Cross' stuff, but both Corruption and Upload are unavailable for rental at ADE and I don't buy any movies - porn or mainstream - sight unseen. Click to expand Savoy, Send your mailing address to me at eli@sexz.com and I'll hook you up. Edited by - Eli Cross on 12/31/2007 4:17:58 PM [Link]
pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04	Posted - Jan 1 2008 : 7:06AM Most features look on the story as an interlude before the next sex scene starts... but it's odd, for all the features I've seen I've never thought of the sex scene having any impact upon the story at all. For the story to intrude on the sex scenes would mean that it would have to be directed, and maybe even choreographed (they have fight choreographers in Hong Kong, so why not porn choreographers? Interesting job.) whereas most porn features prefer simply to allow the performers to simply get on with it. As for "hard" sex, I dislike choking, spitting and any scene where the man abuses the woman. Fisting, DPs and pissing do not have to be violent, but are frequently presented as such. However at the end of the day one factor determines if the sex scene is going to be good or not, and that is if there is chemistry between the performers: If they're enjoying screwing, I will enjoy watching it. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 1 2008 : 2:56PM pil008 wrote: Most features look on the story as an interlude before the next sex scene starts... but it's odd, for all the features I've seen I've never thought of the sex scene having any impact upon the story at all. Click to expand I don't think you've been watching the right features then. Of the 'classics,' I can think of The Story of Joanna, Through the Looking Glass and V: The Hot One, where each sex scene pushes the story forward. [Link]
pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04	Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 5:37AM Quite clearly my porn education is lacking. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 10:58AM Yes a lot of "couples" style films from the 70's did this. Check out "Sex World" if you can. The sex is obviously the story. [Link]
SeX Z Pictures Tommy Molina 73 Posts 11/07	Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 11:15AM Savoy- Talked to ADE today UPLOAD should be up on their site by the end of the day. [Link]

TheLoneGunman Member 400 Posts 10/03	Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 3:57PM In terms of my wife that's exactly how she feels. She can't stand the vanilla stuff allegedley aimed at women, Playgirl and such nonsense. Porn should be hard,edgy and creative. Don't treat female viewers like they can't take it. It's either good porn or it isn't. The depraved Bible Black hentai is also one of my wife's faves. Click to expand Yes, but to each his own...my girl and her girlfriends like the softer stuff...she doesn't even like to see anal and/or girl/girl stuff in an adult feature. I know she'd be totally turned off by the kind of sex in Eli's movies. I like that kind of sex because it's fantasy, but there's a whole ton of women out there who only like to see boy/girl "realistic" porn. Edited by - TheLoneGunman on 1/2/2008 3:58:10 PM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 11:16PM pil008 wrote: Quite clearly my porn education is lacking. Click to expand Sorry if I came off as a know-it-all, I just wanted to point towards some good examples of what you were talking about. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 11:17PM backdoorman wrote: Check out "Sex World" if you can. The sex is obviously the story. Click to expand Great movie. [Link]
pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04	Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 5:25AM No problem BlackSix, you weren't coming across as a know-it-all, and I like film recommendations. I should have put a smiley on the end of my comment to show it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. TheLoneGunmen: I agree that there there are a lot of people (men and women) who don't want to see anal and gapes all that stuff, it's just that when it comes to features you have the choice of either the soft stuff or the ultra-hard stuff, there is very little in-between. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 9:06AM I've never seen them but what about the Candida Royalle (sp?) produced/directed stuff. Would that fit the bill? [Link]
pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04	Posted - Jan 4 2008 : 3:13PM I've never seen any Candida Royalle stuff either, so I couldn't Say. She's meant to make movies that are female-friendly, isn't she? I've seen some stuff by Anna Span, who's the UK's director of "Female-friendly" porn, but it looked like everything else I've seen. [Link]
Eli Cross Member What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06	Posted - Jan 5 2008 : 2:11PM I would say Candida's stuff is a possible fit for TLG's girl, though it's actually got less porn appeal sometimes than the average episode of Californication. I mean the average movie from Candida makes Pirates look like Gangbang Girl. My suggestion would be the Penthouse movies directed by Toni English. I haven't seen them, but her product is always technically excellent, and at one point, I was discussing shooting for them, so I know their focus. Ostensibly, they're making movies for couples and women. The truth is, they're making gay porn to be sold in hotels that won't carry gay porn. But, that means there isn't a lot of girl/girl, and they shoot a lot of one-on-ones with more focus on the guys. [Link]
pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04	Posted - Jan 5 2008 : 2:55PM I think these movie recommendations are moving slightly in the wrong direction here. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 5 2008 : 5:17PM Excalibur's site has movies rated as "couples" throughout their inventory. You might look around there. "Censorship is the first step towards dictatorship !" Honest Ed [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 5 2008 : 11:58PM It isn't strictly hardcore, it just shows blowjobs with no cumshots, but Radley Metzger's The Image (out on DVD through Synapse) is the best feature with S/M and explicit sex that I've ever seen. The sex scenes in this one build on each other and tell the internal story of the characters, it is terrific. [Link]

Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 3:17PM pil008 wrote: I love watching features to gonzo, I prefer the professional lighting and camerawork and the fantasy they build... but sometimes I want something a little more extreme, something harder Porn should, at heart, be rude, to push the boundaries, and yet most porn features play it safe. Every now and then I would like to see a cream pie, or fisting (full hand, not that four-finger rubblish), something to really make me sit up. Do you agree or do you feel that porn features are hard enough as they are? Click to expand Depends on who's directing it, the performers involved, and the story attached to it. Porn is about sex IMO. Pure and simple. I think that is where feature directors tend to kid themselves. I do believe story or set-up can really enhance a film, but at the end of the day, it's about fucking. To me, gonzo and feature differ very little in this aspect. I don't believe Gonzo is about extreme sex, nor do I believe it was ever intended to be about extreme sex. When it comes to features, I think the sex should somewhat match the story or subject. Meaning you don't hire T.T. Boy for a lovey-dovey scene. I think women should be generally fucked the way they wanna be fucked. As long as I sense that is happening, I usually could care less how it's applied. Not saying I'll always watch, but at the same time, it makes me feel good to know women are being fucked well and how they like it. I don't like extreme sex, and I don't consider creampies part of it. I don't like extreme sex or acts, so I go out-of-way to avoid it. Edited by - aplus on 1/17/2008 3:22:34 PM [Link]
Tommy Kaye Member 135 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 2:01PM Personally I like movies with story lines or themes. They don't have to deep or involved, just give us a reason as to why this sexual encounter is happening. My movies are being described as feature meets gonzo. I do agree with that. Yes I do use professional lighting and try to acheive the best camera work that I can, but I also want the sex to be as hot and real as I can make it. It is what it is. I am trying to infuse some fun and creativity with good sex in my productions. I prefer the best of both worlds, good production values with good sex. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 11:28PM pil008 wrote: I love watching features to gonzo, I prefer the professional lighting and camerawork and the fantasy they build... but sometimes I want something a little more extreme, something harder Porn should, at heart, be rude, to push the boundaries, and yet most porn features play it safe. Every now and then I would like to see a cream pie, or fisting (full hand, not that four-finger rubblish), something to really make me sit up. Do you agree or do you feel that porn features are hard enough as they are? Click to expand I agree completely about the lighting and camera work in features. And the fantasy element is awesome too. But I do agree with you that sometimes, the action is a little too soft. Of course, features are often thought of as "couples porn" and they do have to cater to that market. I've always felt that the perfect porn is a nice mixture between a feature and a gonzo. I want the quality lighting, camera work, fantasy elements and picture quality of a feature with a nice, filthy, hardcore element in there as well. I don't watch features too much but I haven't seen much anal in features. I don't want gonzo shot like a feature though. I want something more thoughtful. I don't think quality, style and artistic vision have to be at odds with kinky, raunchy filth. The portions just have to be right and it has to be done intelligently. Standard gonzo looks and feels exactly like what it is. A man and a woman paid to simple fuck in front of a camera. The atmosphere and setting generally tends to be bland, uninviting cheap feeling. You're lucky if the people in front of the camera appear to be enjoying themselves at all in the typical gonzo flick. And the man is nothing but a dick and a set of balls. Gonzo gives you a feeling of claustrophobia because often, the same angles are used repeatedly and there isn't a whole lot of variety. It's literally like watching through a peephole. Features have a great feel to them when you watch them. You actually feel like you're observing a real couple in their home. The camera disappears (as it should). It doesn't have that cheap porn feel. The production values are often much better. Camera angles are more thoughtful and random, adding variety that simply isn't there in a gonzo. More attention is paid to the way women actually think and behave in features. Gonzo simply portrays them as men with pussies and tits. I wouldn't want feature porn to be ruined. Adding kink and filth should enhance them, rather than taking away from the softer, more comfortable atmosphere they create. Edited by - randomprecision on 1/31/2008 11:41:11 PM [Link]
BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04	Posted - Feb 1 2008 : 7:07AM Porn is about sex IMO. Pure and simple. I think that is where feature directors tend to kid themselves. I do believe story or set-up can really enhance a film, but at the end of the day, it's about fucking. To me, gonzo and feature differ very little in this aspect. I don't believe Gonzo is about extreme sex, nor do I believe it was ever intended to be about extreme sex. Click to expand Agree! [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Feb 2 2008 : 8:27AM Nice post Random - lots of good stuff. [Link]