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| snowman Member 23 Posts 3/00 |  Posted - Aug 8 2000 : 11:18PMI know this is a DVD community, however I was just wondering if anyone of you subscribes to AVN's magazine. I was thinking about subscribing, however I have never seen their issues. Also, 78 dollars for a 1 year subscription seems pretty expensive. I am looking for mainly interesting articles and interviews to keep me updated. Reviews that would help my DVD shopping would also be helpful. I don't really need XXX pictures or anything. I already got enough porn. Feel free to recommend any other magazines as well. I would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks.  [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 |  Posted - Aug 9 2000 : 9:59AMBut now it appears that alot of their bonus inserts are only coming to subscribers so it might be worth upgrading. If you're in the "business", it's my understanding you can get a free subscription. Aren't you running a review site Snowman? Just don't mention RAME and you should be ok :-)  [Link] |
| Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99 | Posted - Aug 9 2000 : 10:43AM [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Aug 9 2000 : 12:09PM Really? You're not on their subscription list? Do they look upon this site with hostility for things like a price search engine or something? You'd think they'd love to work with a site that brings the porn companies, porn retailers and consumers together. This business never ceases to amaze me. [Link] |
| Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99 | Posted - Aug 9 2000 : 12:22PM [Link] |
| snowman872 RainCoatReviews.com 400 Posts 6/00 | Posted - Aug 9 2000 : 1:34PM I'm running a review site, but not "Snowman". There are two Snowmans here. I post under Snowman872. Sorry for the unavoidable confusion. I will look into an AVN subscription. It's something I was interested in also. I agree with the other Snowman - the normal price is out of line. Especially for a periodical with so much advertising. Snowman (the other one!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Visit Snowman's Raincoat Reviews [url=464240]http://www.raincoatreviews.com</A Suggestions or comments? Send email to snowman872@mail.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= [Link] |
| snowman Member 23 Posts 3/00 | Posted - Aug 9 2000 : 9:02PM Thanks for the compliment. I am honored that someone would think that I have a review site, especially since I haven't even written a review in my entire life. However, as Snowman872 said, I am not the person that has a review site. Anyways, thank you for responding to my question. Hey Snowman872, Sorry about the confusion. I only signed up as snowman because I love to snowboard. I wouldn't mind changing my username, but some people at ADT know me as snowman. As a result, it would be kind of hard changing my name and starting from scratch again. Maybe you should post a new forum that advertises your site. Hopefully that will prevent some confusion. Also, I don't want to take credit for your good work. [Link] |
| snowman872 RainCoatReviews.com 400 Posts 6/00 | Posted - Aug 9 2000 : 11:13PM If you want to keep Snowman here that is fine with me. I wasn't able to get plain "Snowman" on AOL, eBay, Mail.Com, or any other place for that matter. But, as time goes on, more and more people might confuse you just due to the higher visibility I will have with the review site. If you get any email intended for me, please forward it. I'll do the same for you. Thanks - Snowman (the other one with the review site!) [Link] |
| tricia_devereaux Evil Angel DVD Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00 | Posted - Aug 10 2000 : 6:34PM Lots of advertising to let you know what new products are coming out. Their video reviews are shorter than in the past. And they have some gossip and articles about the adult business. I think they have some of their stuff online at their site though. Tricia [Link] |
| snowman Member 23 Posts 3/00 | Posted - Aug 10 2000 : 8:10PM No problem, I will definitely forward any email that is intended for you. Thanks for your understanding. Later, Snowman [Link] |
| Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99 | Posted - Aug 11 2000 : 9:08AM Actually we are on their subscription list - have been five or six times - I've received two magazines. Could be because a senior person at the company views us as competition or due to the lack of organization you speak of. All: AVN is great for industry folks and consumers interested in the industry. But I think buying decisions should be based on impartial information from fellow consumers. [Link] |
| Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99 | Posted - Aug 11 2000 : 5:08PM These clips were filmed and edited by Decker for Adult DVD Talk. They were available in late January shortly after CES. AVN released a few clips later in the year that bear a striking resemplance to ours. Has anyone seen them? [Link] |
| JKRULL Jill Kelly Productions beverly hills California 99 Posts 7/00 |  Posted - Aug 11 2000 : 6:39PMThe reviews are fair, but very rarely will you see someone get nailed real bad, like in Hustler. They are also pretty good to the girls in general. go to [url=167338]www.lukeford.com</A chose archives, and then choose either AVN or Paul Fishbein- the founder and editor. It gives a history of the Magazine. Decide for yourself where they stand. I have found AVN to be fair, they are in a huge online push, may be why they SEEM to be ignoring some folks. Don't think it is on purpose, don't think their circulation is in jeopardy. You can always e-mail them. They usually respond. JK [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Aug 12 2000 : 8:49AM The average rating for most AVN titles, esp. if they're released by Vivid etc are way overinflated. I'm sorry I don't see that much good porn out there. The inverse is usually the case [Link] |
| d0nny Member Los Angeles 10 Posts 2/00 | Posted - Aug 12 2000 : 8:56AM As far as competition goes, AVN should be alittle threatened by ADT because not only do we have a headups on them in DVD reviews (since they still focus on VHS) but ADT offers members a chance to interact with the adult industry (chats, forums, etc.). [Link] |
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| JKRULL Jill Kelly Productions beverly hills California 99 Posts 7/00 | Posted - Aug 12 2000 : 7:09PM I do agree that AVN can be harsher on studios, mine included. It is what it is. That is why it is a trade Magazine, first. Industry insiders know how to interpet the reviews. As far as Vivid goes- read between the lines- but if your not in the industry, why read AVN at all? Vivid will sell regardless of the review. It's the brand, not the content. Every watch the new HOT channel? XX and cable. reachs millions of households, video and DVD reaches only a few thousand if it is really good. I.E. Dreamquest video has sold about 25,000 copies, 80% by one mail order company,The DVD maybe 5000-7000 (so far) if it was broadcast on HOT or Erotic Network tommorow, it would hit a few million households,( watered down version) Wonder where the big money is going? DVD is a huge growth Indsutry, but compared to broadcast- Well you get it. The truth of the matter is an average AVN review, is worth 100 great reviews elsewhere, (with the exception of some LFP publications) So until another Magazine or media can sway the buyers of the big forces like Tower, Movie Gallery,Video Update and Virgin- to (name a few) get used to it. Those companies customers are cable subscribers and want the hardcore version of a brand they recognize.- retailers are not blind to that. Neither is AVN. Tepid reviews will be here for a while longer. [Link] |
| snowman872 RainCoatReviews.com 400 Posts 6/00 | Posted - Aug 13 2000 : 12:10AM Like any other industry the adult industry is consumer driven. The end consumer is the true force behind what is and is not successful. In the past, the adult market may have been distorted because of a serious lack of information. There was no one you could talk to about adult movies and the boxes themselves were very deceptive. Markets cannot operate efficiently without accurate information. The internet is changing all that. Now that consumers can go to site like this one and read exactly what is in an adult movie before they rent or buy, it will change everything. The consumer is no longer operating in the dark. I firmly believe consumers can and will utilize these resources. As a result, AVN's rating will no longer be a good yardstick for wholesale and retail buyers. In the past it may have been used extensively, but mostly because there was hardly anything else to go by. Sharp adult industry players might pay more attention to the buzz on the web. It's the first time this kind of direct feedback was possible. Snowman[This message has been edited by snowman872 (edited August 13, 2000).] [Link] |
| JKRULL Jill Kelly Productions beverly hills California 99 Posts 7/00 | Posted - Aug 13 2000 : 5:34AM That is why there is AVN.com and AVNonline.com. It will be a slow transition for sure. A review from ADT is far more constructive- Saki's review of my best seller Caribbean Undercover has made me re-do the whole Hot Shot concept. There is no way I would have delayed releases, and spent the additional dollars from an AVN review, as they spend most of their energy on the underlying content. I spend time on AVN'S retailer forum- and the content and brand recognition is what they are looking for, most retailers (on line as well) haven't a clue about features. Look at the the pricing structure,(of ADT Advertisers) how they bundle product- unlike the savvy consumer on this site, most haven't a clue what to look for, so branding and marketing will still reign. Chasing Stacy- a great DVD ( Just hired the author!) would not of had nearly the sales if it was released by a smaller studio-VCA is all over the world, cable, foreign distribution etc. AVN will follow the trends, but more impotantly the dollars. [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Aug 13 2000 : 8:38AM As time goes on, I believe the reviews on the Net will gain in importance and eventually surpass traditional print reviews like those in AVN. ======= AVN has contempt for the online audience of mooks and already feels threatened by RAME and it appears ADT. A big part of the problem is their arrogant condescension and the fact that the consumers will speak their mind b/c they purchase their product and aren't obligated to curry favor like AVN has to to survive. But even more importantly, AVN is seeing itself slip away as an anachronism where they once were pretty much the conduit for all porn information. Because it takes so long for an issue to get to press. By the time they've scooped a story, we've already sliced and diced it a thousand different ways on RAME. Same deal with reviews. By the time it comes out in AVN, it's old news if you read the online review sites. [Link] |
| JKRULL Jill Kelly Productions beverly hills California 99 Posts 7/00 | Posted - Aug 14 2000 : 8:51PM Quote from Torris: "AVN has contempt for the online audience of mooks and already feels threatened by RAME and it appears ADT" I am quite interested in this quote- I would like to read some information that backs such a bold statement, my experience has been they have very little negative feedback in regards to RAME and ADT, in fact in some cases I have heard positive feedback,(from AVN) and if you go to AVNonline and AVN.com, they have actually put into use some of the formats from ADT and RAME. Hardly ignoring the MOOKS, but again focusing on retailers. I know I am beating a dead dog- but it is a TRADE MAGAZINE- some seem to be losing sight of what they have chosen their role to be. [Link] |
| Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99 | Posted - Aug 14 2000 : 9:18PM Actually - since I have nothing to hide: AVN.com has or used to have a Submit an Event link. That link was a link to email one of the senior editors (I don't need to post names.) I submitted one of our chats. The editor meant to forward my message on with his comments, but accidentally hit reply. His response was, "Look we actually have a competitor!" - or something to that effect. Needless to say they did not post the event. That experience aside I have worked with many good people at AVN. [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Aug 14 2000 : 9:22PM I am not a huge supporter of AVN, and as a seller of product, I understand the impact they have, and with their onlone efforts will continue to have on sales figures. Quote from Torris: "AVN has contempt for the online audience of mooks and already feels threatened by RAME and it appears ADT" I am quite interested in this quote- I would like to read some information that backs such a bold statement, my experience has been they have very little negative feedback in regards to RAME and ADT, ========= Mark Kernes has consistently badmouthed the "uniformed fans" who have no write to their opinions constantly in the pages of AVN. . I know I am beating a dead dog- but it is a TRADE MAGAZINE- some seem to be losing sight of what they have chosen their role to be. ======== AVN sure seemed to be threatened by all of the competing porn news outlets that have cropped up in the wake of the spread of the Internet. They are certainly a trade magazine in the way that they promote the companies even when they do underhanded things like Vivid's DVD edits which will never make a mention in its pages, which serves to rip off the unsuscpeting consumer [Link] |
The Wanderer  All-Star Member 192 Posts 6/00 | Posted - Aug 15 2000 : 7:35AM I used to read AVN's DVD reviews every month before making a buying decision and I can't remember a single instance where the reviewer mentioned anything about edits to Vivid DVDs. Maybe it just slipped their minds? Or perhaps AVN reviewers have no integrity whatsoever and can't be trusted? Who knows? One thing's for certain, after buying a few Vivid DVDs and realising how much footage was missing I stopped reading AVN and turned to sites like this one instead. AVN has nothing to offer porn consumers except misleading, over-hyped reviews and a stack of glossy ads. ADT on the other hand has saved me a large amount of money through its reviews and this forum. Their home security systems are good too!  If AVN (trade magazine that it is) really had the retailer's best interests at heart they wouldn't recommend any butchered Vivid DVDs, thus protecting store owners from a flood of complaints from ripped-off consumers. [Link] |
| JKRULL Jill Kelly Productions beverly hills California 99 Posts 7/00 |  Posted - Aug 15 2000 : 4:06PMTorris: Please provide an issue and page number-I don't recall the Mark Kearnes quotes- If they are there, I would love to see them. When AVN says they actually have a competitor, it is hard to determine attitude and intent. That quote can be taken any way one wishes to hear it. At the end of the day- it is still a trade Mag and supllies retailers with the information they need to give the GENERAL public what they are asking for. Thanks [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Aug 15 2000 : 6:11PM Torris makes a good point there about Vivid titles. I used to read AVN's DVD reviews every month before making a buying decision and I can't remember a single instance where the reviewer mentioned anything about edits to Vivid DVDs. ========= Torris: I wonder how much porn they actually watch before they write their review. Otherwise how oculd they not know that such a sucessful title like Masseusse 3 that they probably all got screeners for in Video format from Vivid had been cut back to 70 minutes. How do you have a plotted porn movie make sense when you trim it back from 2 hours and 20 minutes, to half that length? Either they don't pay attention, a sin for any reviewer --- especially ones that get paid for their reviews or they're in on the scam. My guess is that their review editoars would edit out any mention of edited content in the printed review. Maybe it just slipped their minds? Or perhaps AVN reviewers have no integrity whatsoever and can't be trusted? Who knows? Torris: I wish that someone who has been ripped off from Vivid DVDs would write a letter to AvN to point this out, to see if it could get published. I only have one Vivid DVD, Borderline. A movie starring Celeste. Half way through it just disintegrated in the plot line and showed the *ending* (cuddling, not facials either), of sex scenes that weren't on the DVD. It was like. Huh? One thing's for certain, after buying a few Vivid DVDs and realising how much footage was missing I stopped reading AVN and turned to sites like this one instead. Torris: re-read that paragraph, you stopped relying on AVN and switched to the "competitor". Explains a lot to me AVN has nothing to offer porn consumers except misleading, over-hyped reviews and a stack of glossy ads. Torris: AVN admits that it's not for consumers. But really, since we are the end product, does it do us any justice to have a misinformed "smut shack" community who are suckered into buying compromised porn. A ripped off customer generally holds a grudge. I sure do! ADT on the other hand has saved me a large amount of money through its reviews and this forum. Their home security systems are good too! Torris: See, ADT saved you money. The goal if you're selling isn't to have a discriminating consumer pool unless they're selling fine wine or something. The goal of the porn industry is for you to open the wallet and feed their Benz, gold and hairplug payments :-) If AVN (trade magazine that it is) really had the retailer's best interests at heart they wouldn't recommend any butchered Vivid DVDs, thus protecting store owners from a flood of complaints from ripped-off consumers. Torris: If a tree falls in the forest do we hear it scream? Or whatever that Buddhist thing is. How will you ever know you've been ripped off if AVN won't allow you to let others know the rip off exists! [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Aug 15 2000 : 6:22PM My plea to all porn companies is simple. Don't rip me off. You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once. I can't understand why Vivid, who obviously know their video re-releases and DVDs are edited for economic purposes think they're really saving themselves a few pennies here and there. What they're doing is killing, murdering and massacring brand loyalty Everyone expects to get sort of ripped off by Leisure time b/c they probably paid $6 for the thing. But Vivd sells their titles at around the $20 mark. And for that I expect to get the whole movie. I don't want to buy a copy of Saving Private Ryan and have the beach scene excised b/c Spielberg wanted to save a few pennies. We need to tell all of our porn comrades to monitor groups like ADT and RAME so that as a consumer group we can over time become sufficiently wise to resist the porn industry scam. The only industry that enjoys ripping off the consumer with more gusto is TCI cable. I also think that, in this case, the DVD sales companies also have an obligation to apply pressure on the porn companies that are the most guilty culprits. Threaten to not carry titles that they know are either fucked up or edited. We all have to work together to fight evil wherever and whenever we see it if we want to ensure a better product. [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Aug 15 2000 : 6:26PM The stores ASK FOR Vivid DVD'S, as I said it is the branding, not the content. Torris: Please provide an issue and page number-I don't recall the Mark Kearnes quotes- If they are there, I would love to see them. ========= Do your own research. I was called an idiot by name in the magazine. I'm not that obsessed about it to keep track of the particulars. Post a query about it on RAME newsgroup . At the end of the day- it is still a trade Mag and supllies retailers with the information they need to give the GENERAL public what they are asking for. Torris: That's the problem. It just makes everyone igorant. Does anyone believe that 2/3 of all porn out there rates about a "B" average which is about 3 1/2 to 4 stars in AVN. Any shot on film movie in AVN automatically gets at least an 8 in content and production in AvN. The reviews in AvN aren't critical assessements but advertorials. [Link] |
| pornactor Member chatsworth CA USA 6 Posts 8/00 |  Posted - Aug 16 2000 : 7:57PMpress AVN gets here on ADT- They are powerful enough- all this effort gives them even more. Kearnes and Fishbein must be laughing their heads off when they read this- the old proverb holds true, any press is good press. I know I am now going to pick up an issue (have not in months) just to see if what was said is true. Never really paid that much attention. The fact that they insulted a member- big deal, again, any press is good press. [Link] |
| Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99 | Posted - Aug 16 2000 : 9:02PM We are typically a very reserved, friendly group of DVD lovers here. A few recent threads have devloped into some pretty heated discussion. It's certainly not the normal routine here. I think things will calm down soon. At least I hope they do. [This message has been edited by Drew Black (edited August 16, 2000).] [Link] |
| pornactor Member chatsworth CA USA 6 Posts 8/00 | Posted - Aug 17 2000 : 7:05AM Was it Torris? I forgot already. I started seeing double trying to get through all the text- (gotta get my eyes checked!) [Link] |
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