How many female porn stars are iFeminists ?

Author	Post
caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 1:37PM I wonder, how many female porn stars are individual feminists ? The mainstream press often uses the term "pro porn" feminism, because that sounds a little funny. I dont want to speculate too much, but I think Kimmi Lixx is an iFeminist. Almost all of her smart comments and intelligent remarks reflect the spirit of iFeminism. [Link]
dead horse Most Beaten Member 305 Posts 6/06	Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 3:31PM faq for ifeminism What is ifeminism? Individualist feminism, or ifeminism, advocates the equal treatment of men and women as individuals under just law. The core principle of individualist feminism is that all human beings have a moral and legal claim to their own persons and property. It is sometimes called libertarian feminism fwiw [Link]
caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 3:40PM I know that. But its also a positive approach towards porn. ( ifeminists.com ) [Link]
dead horse Most Beaten Member 305 Posts 6/06	Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 3:41PM I figured you knew, I had to look it up because I had never heard the term so I posted it for every one else to get more respinses, maybe they don't know if they are an ifeminist [Link]
john_qyoo_public Deactivated User 265 Posts 7/05	Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 4:19PM Um, safe to say the vast majority, exceptions being feminists, and BDSM types maybe? [Link]

Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 4:33PM I don't think even the fundamentalist Christian women I've met, people who equate feminism with satanism, would argue with "equal treatment of men and women as individuals under just law" or everyone having "a moral and legal claim to their own persons and property". By that definition I can't think of any woman I know who isn't an ifeminist... [Link]
john_qyoo_public Deactivated User 265 Posts 7/05	Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 5:39PM I agree, but maybe he's wondering about self-professed ifeminists. [Link]
caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 10:09AM Dave_K99 wrote: I don't think even the fundamentalist Christian women I've met, people who equate feminism with satanism, would argue with "equal treatment of men and women as individuals under just law" or everyone having "a moral and legal claim to their own persons and property". By that definition I can't think of any woman I know who isn't an ifeminist... Click to expand This is only ONE point of iFeminism. But normal feminsts dont want equal treatment. In many books and speeches Ive read and heard by conservative feminists, there is very little demand for "equal treatment", but they demand a high quote for women, they want females ruling the nation, they want more females in corporations as men, etc. Most conservative feminists ( not all ) dont want a balance, but a female leadership. A sort of revenge for all the thousand years men dominated women. And Christian women dont want a "moral and legal claim to their own persons and property". They are AGAINST abortion. They want to tell other women, how they have to live their lifes. ( No sex before marriage, no porn, no fun etc. ) If I take the definition of iFeminism seriously ( and why shouldnt I ? ), only a small part of women are iFeminists. [Link]
Edard Balladur Deactivated User 140 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 11:40AM "But normal feminsts dont want equal treatment. In many books and speeches Ive read and heard by conservative feminists, there is very little demand for "equal treatment", but they demand a high quote for women, they want females ruling the nation, they want more females in corporations as men, etc. Most conservative feminists ( not all ) dont want a balance, but a female leadership. A sort of revenge for all the thousand years men dominated women." "It is also important to recognize that governments in their quest for power have an incentive to create- not solve- problems and to disempower- not empower- those who would solve them. For example, governments discourage access to firearms which have been shown to be an effective means of deterring and defending against violence. They offer instead the false protection of protective orders (a piece of paper) and police officers (who can't be everywhere at once). This leaves those who are targeted by abusers with less ability to protect themselves than they would have were individual rights respected instead." I think that France goes crazy. But we still have a lot to learn from USA ;) [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 1:29PM caroline-NL wrote: This is only ONE point of iFeminism. But normal feminsts dont want equal treatment. In many books and speeches Ive read and heard by conservative feminists, there is very little demand for "equal treatment", but they demand a high quote for women, they want females ruling the nation, they want more females in corporations as men, etc. Most conservative feminists ( not all ) dont want a balance, but a female leadership. A sort of revenge for all the thousand years men dominated women. Click to expand To me people with those views aren't "normal" anything. The extreme man-hating feminists may make a lot of noise sometimes, but in my experience they're a tiny minority. And Christian women dont want a "moral and legal claim to their own persons and property". They are AGAINST abortion. They want to tell other women, how they have to live their lifes. ( No sex before marriage, no porn, no fun etc. ) Click to expand You're right of course about the difference of opinion when it comes to sex/porn. Although looking at the full ifeminist FAQ, there's nothing stopping an ifeminist from being anti-abortion: A vocal minority within ifeminism, however, oppose abortion. They believe that the developing fetus can rightfully claim the same human rights as a newborn baby. Click to expand [Link]
caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 4:28PM DaveK99: The extreme man-hating feminists may make a lot of noise sometimes, but in my experience they're a tiny minority. Not in Germany. I know that for sure, because my german mother is one of them. I dont know, why she ever married my father, but she transformed in the years after the marriage. From a "free love", sprit of 68, group sex hippie girl to a man-hating, porn-hating, sex-hating, self-hating extreme right-wing feminist. Its frightening, but quite a lot of women in Germany made this transformation. And the worst, exactly these women are in the german government now. No, no, not the chancellor, Miss Merkel, she was socialized in the communist part of Germany, but she isnt much better. Most of her sentences start with : " The state has to.....", " We have to ban this...", " We need more laws..." regarding the abortion laws, Ive never met an individual feminist, who was against abortion. But there are some who are against prostitution, but pro-porn. ( In Sweden ) [Link]
Gabriella Cuntez Member Get Some Head In The Game 55 Posts 12/08	Posted - Dec 5 2008 : 7:52AM Dave, of course there are few people who would disagree publicly with "equal treatmeant under the law" for men and women. But it's when you get specific that you find out how feminist or not a woman is. A woman can say she's generally "for" the feminist agenda of gender equality under the law, except when it comes to women heading their churches women fighting their wars their daughters deciding to have as much sex as their sons trusting women to be their police officers and firefighters *working moms leaving their own children in others' care as much as working dads do Feminist organizations such as NOW (the archetypal feminist organization) are working for the rights of all women, whether those women agree with the fight or not. And women who eschew the label "feminist" still enjoy the privileges earned by the movement, e.g. Phyllis Schlafly...a working mom whose job was to campaign against working moms. These days, most americans don't see the front of the feminist movement, which is not in the US anymore. The front is in countries that treat women like the US did 150 years ago. In countries where women are still legally property. There are still battles here in the US, but the fronts are in places like Afghanistan and Iran. Go to msmagazine.org and see...the news stories are half US half foreign. [Link]
cm37564 Senior Member 1105 Posts 9/05	Posted - Dec 5 2008 : 10:21AM well, the real question is are these feminists that don't want the male race eliminated from existence? . . .it kinda sounds like it from the faq [Link]
JohnW Senior Member 1351 Posts 6/08	Posted - Dec 5 2008 : 4:13PM If you wonder how many conform to the huge list on that site, I would suspect practically none. I had not heard about the concept or the term before either. I'm sure most people could agree with a lot of it, but I think most porn stars are often individualists by nature. That means they probably don't want to label themselves or subscribe to any pre-defined ideology like this one, even if a lot of it makes sense. [Link]
Shylock Spieglergirls.com "Patron of the Tarts" 2431 Posts 3/03	Posted - Dec 5 2008 : 10:40PM Traditional "Feminism" isn't dead ..... It just smells bad. SHYLOCK "Patron of the Tarts" Spieglergirls.com Mark Spiegler - Myspace page [Link]

SinnamonLove Member 376 Posts 3/06	Posted - Dec 6 2008 : 10:27PM I always thought that was called post-modern feminist... But yes, Count me in. [Link]
Stephan Member Mmmm kitty kitty! 46 Posts 3/08	Posted - Dec 6 2008 : 11:59PM Gender equality issues, like racial, religious, sexual orientation, and similar issues related to equality all have similar underpinnings. There's a great deal of social power at stake, and everyone wants a piece of the pie. I'd like to think a day will come when the notion that gender, orientation, religious preferences, skin color, etc will be on par with hair, eye color, and shoe size. As much as I acknowledge and respect that social movements need proponents, I believe that those leaders and organizations will always have a vested interest in ensuring they have a cause to advocate. Having said that, I think it's also fair to say that misandrist feminists (man-hating feminists) attract a great deal more attention than the much larger, less media-attracting population at large. I strongly identify with the 'libertarian feminist' definition, and take it a step further; I think all people should be viewed and judged on their individual merits. Women may choose to work in the sex industry just as they can choose to work as a desk clerk, chemical engineer, or truck driver. What's different, is the sex industry is an easy target for organizations that need a demon blame the world's woes on. Next time you drop $20 on a bottle of vodka, it might not be comforting to hear that nearly $15 of the cost is pure tax. After all, drinking is bad for you, and causes many social ills; why not just tax it out of existence? Same with cigarettes; point I'm making is that so long as man is prone to an 'us' and 'them' mentality, there will always be a power to be gained by exploiting liberty. I suppose that's the price we pay living in a democracy. Stephan Nosce Te Ipsum "The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer www.charlottevale.com [Link]
Gabriella Cuntez Member Get Some Head In The Game 55 Posts 12/08	Posted - Dec 7 2008 : 2:15AM You can have your debates about "what feminism means today" all you want. The workers in the movement get to decide what their label means. The volunteers and activists from your local shelter ladies to those undercover in Iran...they get to define the feminist movement. It's just like soldiers say: "if you haven't been in the fight, you will never get it". [Link]
Johnothan Pedak Senior Member Catastrophe 1594 Posts 6/07	Posted - Dec 7 2008 : 6:38AM dead horse wrote: What is ifeminism? Click to expand Feminists of the iPod generation. [Link]
Stephan Member Mmmm kitty kitty! 46 Posts 3/08	Posted - Dec 7 2008 : 9:43AM Gabriella Cuntez wrote: You can have your debates about "what feminism means today" all you want. The workers in the movement get to decide what their label means. The volunteers and activists from your local shelter ladies to those undercover in Iran...they get to define the feminist movement. It's just like soldiers say: "if you haven't been in the fight, you will never get it". Click to expand As a former Marine, I'll just point out that it's civilians who define the role of a soldier ;) Social movements aren't 'owned' by anyone. No one person or committee gets to define feminism; if anything, labels are mostly just buzzwords to sell magazines, books, and news ratings. Much as NOW might like to speak for all women, clearly they do not. [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Dec 7 2008 : 1:00PM Gabriella Cuntez wrote: You can have your debates about "what feminism means today" all you want. The workers in the movement get to decide what their label means. The volunteers and activists from your local shelter ladies to those undercover in Iran...they get to define the feminist movement. It's just like soldiers say: "if you haven't been in the fight, you will never get it". Click to expand Of course, individuals get to decide what it means to them, but I'm not sure how it's possible to define the feminist movement as a whole; not when views on what constitutes feminism are so varied and contradictory. It's a bit like trying to provide a single definition of Christianity, what constitutes a Christian, and what Christianity means today. Yes, the churches and their congregations do much to determine the belief system, but ask two Christians about the essential core beliefs and you'll likely get different answers. Are only church goers real Christians? How much of the bible needs to be taken literally? Is tolerance of homosexuality Christian or anti-Christian? Some people view 'true Christianity' as a very narrow path, while others are far more inclusive. The same seems to be true when it comes to feminism. There's a massive difference between the mainstream feminism followed by many of the women I know, and the extremely restrictive doctrine from radical feminists like Mary Daly and Sheila Jeffries. It really does remind me of liberal Christians vs. hardline fundamentalists. A woman I know volunteered at a DV shelter for years, she goes on Take Back the Night Marches and engages in other activism to help women, yet, because of certain views she holds, she still occasionally gets people (usually the women's studies graduate set) telling her that she's not a true feminist. From what I've seen, quite a few women get turned off the feminist label in college because of elements of feminist theory that are popular among academics. I used to think that anyone who believed in gender equality, who was willing to stand up for equal rights, was a feminist, whether they used the label or not. Yet that definition excludes all the misandrist feminists who believe that women are inherently superior... [Link]
Derek117 Senior Member 1605 Posts 1/06	Posted - Dec 7 2008 : 3:14PM IMO, there are no feminist porn stars. Though I know many who believe they are. The truth is Porn is a male-focused industry--with a male POV. There are many women working in the industry at all level (company executives, producers, directors, writers, performers, publicists, agents) but the "viewpoint" of the industry, it's image and product is geared to satisfy the (perceived) male POV and sexuality. Female sexuality, and the feminist POV, is ignored--except for the recent g/g productions of companies like Viv Thomas and Abby Winters. That said, the "best" that a female performer can do in the industry is "control" her own image, and make her personal career choices, and the type of product/scenes she's in, based upon her tastes and POV. IMO very few stars over the years (Ginger Lynn, Jenna Jameson), have had "control" over their image, careers and product at the level that qualifies them as Feminists. [Link]
DanaDeArmond Porn Unicorn TheInternetsGirlfriend.com 2786 Posts 1/06	Posted - Dec 7 2008 : 3:26PM just because a person has a vagina, doesnt make them a feminist. just because a person does porn, doesnt make them not a feminist. there is a cross over of people who happen to have a vagina, do porn, and are feminists. but the three may be mutually exclusive. Edited by - danadearmond on 12/7/2008 3:48:45 PM [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jul 21 2009 : 8:25PM This is nearly a year old - I wonder if things have changed? I think asking the question exclusively of individual-feminism is perhaps a bit narrow, but it's still a valid concern. I personally have had my feminist beliefs called into question by colleagues and professors, and I know self-proclaimed feminists such as Nina Hartley would most likely be rejected by second wave feminism. Still, I wonder how this issue rests with 2009? I would love to hear from some female performers/filmmakers on the subject. [Link]