It's always been my dream, and I've even put my money where my mouth is by shooting my own scenes (AMWF niche). They've been profitable so far (I'm lucky to have a prior following from a non-porn avenue before this), but I can only afford to shoot one scene every 1.5 month or so. The only time a producer gave me a chance as a new face, I fucked it up by not getting hard. This was in August last year, and since then I've loaded up on Viagra/Cialis, and I decided to shoot my own scenes, where I've never had wood problems anymore. How could I pay my dues and break into the industry? I read about people like Logan Pierce shooting emails to agencies and landing gigs right away, and I feel jealous as hell. Actually, part of me wonders what would have happened if I successfully did a great scene during that shoot I was given a chance. PS I'm Asian. It's probably a huge disadvantage, but I'm not giving up.
Maybe you should do your own website and work with the girls you want to. If I was to do this myself that's the route I go now of course this easy said then done.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jan 6 2016 : 2:36PM
This is why companies do not hire new male talent. Keep doing your own; if you feel passionate about it work hard in a regular job so you can afford to make more than a scene a month. Problem is doing your own with a girl you like is still a much different scenario working on set with 10 people looking and a girl who might not like you. Don't just assume because you are cool on your own you will make it working on conventional sets. And if you are honest about your scenes turning a profit, why not just stay with that and not bother working for cheap scene rates for other people.
I actually hire professional talent (from agencies) and crew to shoot my content. And yes, I've shot two scenes, and they've made money from my Twitter following. I just want to speed things up. I already keep my day job as a bartender to fund my production, but it seems a little pathetic that I need to keep a job just to fund another job. As for not bothering working for cheap scene rates, I want to focus on acting, not producing, editing, casting, marketing, and the entire financial responsibility that comes with producing one's own shoot.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jan 6 2016 : 5:02PM
There is nothing pathetic about people keeping current employment while building their dream career or business venture. People who start businesses do that all the time. You still got to pay the bills and there is honor in working your ass off to make your dream a reality. You have to change your mindset in a big way. And again, making your own stuff (if it is profitable as you say) is the best way to go. You will not get steady work from anyone at this stage, period; and no strategy will accelerate that at this time. Build your own stuff, a reputation as a good person to do business with , and maybe a door opens in the future. Sorry to say that, it is what it is.
Thanks a lot, Cindy, for taking the time to chip in. I have plenty of new plans for new content, and I've even found female talent willing to do content trade for now. I'll keep at it and see where it takes me. Appreciate all your wisdom. :D
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jan 9 2016 : 4:44AM
Good to hear Please share your content with us once it is up and running. I would like to see how you made out.
When someone asked to Keiran Lee what he would suggest to someone who would like to be a male performer, he said that most companies don't hire new talents because in case of problems they lose money, so a good move could be the offer of doing the first scenes for free. Also trading contents with other performers (and it seems that twitter helps to make easily connections) could be a good choice. And I guess that if one lives in Florida or California has more possibilities to work since a lot of studios are there.
^ Even if new talent offered to do the scenes for free (they shouldn't, by the way), if they don't get it up, that's still money wasted on renting the location, hiring the crew, and bringing in the female talent (if one talent shows up and the scene doesn't get shot for a reason that isn't their fault, you have to pay them a "kill fee" for wasting their time). So there's still a good amount of money lost. Cindy is right in that the best way to go about this is continue making your own scenes, and networking with producers and performers in the hopes that someone will give you another shot somewhere down the line.
ADT Chatroom Survivor, Large Breast Connoisseur 176 Posts 8/08
Posted - Jan 9 2016 : 10:02PM
It sounds like you've already had more of a chance than a lot of people wanting to break in the industry get. It's a set back, but may not be the end. BUT... Have you looked at the economics of how many scenes a month as a performer you would need to work consistently to be able to quit your day job? The path to your dream may not be paved with Viagra and Cialis. That said, there are guys that produce vids on clips4sale that I would pay good money to trade a day with. It's not a bad way to get a start and build a rep, hopefully a good one.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jan 9 2016 : 10:30PM
I would think most porn guys ( who are doing only scenes and not making their own product) probably are broke. Being a porn guy sounds fun but it is a tough grind if you want to make a good living. As everyone has said to you, make your own stuff and work hard at it. Keep your day job so you can pay the rent and fund shooting new scenes. Being a male performer working for everyone else will take a long long time and is not lucrative in the short run. Heck if you can make a small profit every month from making your own content on evenings and weekends, that is a pretty good "2nd job" and you shouldn't dismiss that idea. You do have the other option of entering through gay porn. It does pay better (I think), and they are more likely to accept new talent if you have the body they want. There are serious barriers to entry.. there is a reason we still see Erik Everhard in every other scene. Companies call the guys they know and nobody else. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 1/9/2016 10:32:23 PM
I do have a bit of a social media following... 13k on Twitter, used to have 88k on FB (but got banned once I "became" a porn guy). Thanks for the tip. And yes, I'll keep at it for now. Most of my customers are from Asia so far, and I've been gathering feedback from my paying customers to hopefully shoot the scenes that they want to see and are willing to pay for. I appreciate all input.
^there is a link on his profile... From what I have seen, you have got some talent with the camera and writing. Maybe you should consider going into directing. I have only seen the trailers, but it does seem like you have a difficult time staying hard...Viagra and cialis can't be healthy in the long run, though...I stand by what I said before. Get some more newcomer girls (maybe amateurs) and keep the high production you have, while periodically trying to get a top girl. Still try to get your foot in the door as a director by getting a good following of fans, particularly in the US. Edited by - Xhakorudan on 1/10/2016 6:27:59 PM Edited by - Xhakorudan on 1/10/2016 6:33:45 PM
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jan 10 2016 : 7:29PM
Thanks for letting me know where to get the link. I have to say it was a pretty well produced trailer from what I saw. The guy can make a quality scene and seems to put thought into the story. I liked the fun facts part, always enjoy hearing behind the scenes. He is in great shape and that is no problem. As for your comment on him using viagra or something.... I think for Alvin, you got to take it nowadays if you want to be offered work from others. If there is anywhere in the scene, even 10 seconds where you are not 100% rock erect, someone is going to be critical of it. It is a personal choice and I don't think it matters if you are making your own stuff, however, directors will pick you apart. A normal guy gets hard and soft throughout an evening of sex, so if you want to present your own scenes that way, it is cool. You can't be "normal" these days if you want to break in on your own to other people's work. I loved how he uses AirBnb to get porn locations :)
ADT Chatroom Survivor, Large Breast Connoisseur 176 Posts 8/08
Posted - Jan 10 2016 : 11:09PM
I went ahead and bought your Abbey Rain scene, and I liked it! I think there are some things you'll need to work on, like opening to the camera, but it's far better than 95% of us could do. Looking at the rest of your site, it's clear you had some notoriety from SE Asia, and you have a book and presumably some writing; why not get with an agent who can leverage it? Otherwise, keep doing your own. I think you're on the right track. Just for the love of all things if you're getting your locations from AirBnB I hope you never rent from me. All the oil you used on that couch made me cringe.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to view my stuff... I'm curious, which scenes specifically did it seem like I have trouble staying hard? Between writing, directing, producing (managing everything on-set), plus my day job, not to mention the enormous financial responsibility of funding my own shoot, I admit it was hard to do my best acting. I do have regular sex with regular people from Tinder (protected at all times) for practice though. Still, that's something I need to work on; if you can see it, others can too.
Got it -- stay hard at all times. Maybe double up on Viagra. Hell, maybe go the injection route. There's no way the pro male talents are 100% natural, I just don't believe it.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jan 11 2016 : 1:52AM
No pro male talent is "natural"... it is just the way it is. Nobody can maintain a 2 hour erection without even a few short moments of the flag going down unless they are some super human (even though every guy will tell ya he can stay rock hard for 9 hours:) ). In the pre ED days, the scenes were shorter and the scenes had to often stop while the guy jacked back up again; just like in the real world! I really would like to caution you against injecting. Do you really want to put needles in your dick just to make 200 bucks on a porn set? Honestly man, if you can make money putting out what we saw in that trailer, you really need to go down that path aggressively. Niche products are a great way to go and you got something there that is unique and your production values are really high. Honestly, I would be a regular customer if you had anal in them; I like what I saw. I do get that the scene you made probably cost you a couple grand when it was all said and done. It is tough, and like I said, barriers to entry are pretty high if you want to make good porn. If you want to make shit and put it on clips4sale you can give it a try. However if you want to put out quality memorable work, it costs money. Trying to get noticed by others will put a lot of undue pressure on you, unfair scrutiny, and may lead you to take way too much ED product for your own good. (like double viagra..... i mean, this is not good!). Viagra for your shoots is highly recommended, but even with that you should not be thinking about over dosing or needles and crap. Porn directors also stereotype and porn is racist to a degree. The fact you are asian male is a no fly zone for a lot of companies unfortunately. So build your own little plot of land in the porn business and not worry about everyone else. Honestly, if you make enough scenes you might be able to get some work making scenes for companies and put in a scene starring yourself among the rest of the product; there are not a lot of good directors around in porn anymore, and that one little scene by one amateur guy (you) looks better than alot of the stuff out there by established companies. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 1/11/2016 2:00:59 AM
This makes no sense. If they are profitable, you shouldn't have to wait and save money to "afford" to shoot. You should be able to use revenue from one shoot to pay for the next, with money left over (i.e., the profit).
If a scene costs $2000 to shoot, and makes only makes $500 profit, then he'd have to come up with the other $1500 from somewhere else. You're assuming that he's starting at a zero balance after the scene is shot/before it's released, but that may not be the case. Just to use a simple example, he may have used credit cards to pay for parts of the expenses, and the money coming back from selling the scene is what he uses to pay that off. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 1/12/2016 2:00:31 AM
Now that you bring it up, AMWF/AMBF anal is non-existent. Maybe I can be the first. I'll be filming in Vegas during AVN/AEE, linked up with some female talent for content trade on Twitter. Hope that works out well, thanks Cindy for all your sharings so far. Wish me luck :D
I have several ideas up my sleeves. For instance, I came from an Islamofascist state. I'd love depicting Muslim sex slave porn... but I think I'll get murdered by ISIS.
Then the $500 isn't profit. The $500 is sales, and he doesn't have a profit. He has a $1,500 loss. Sounds to me like the business plan needs to be reviewed.
Meh...Not a fan of slave porn/BDSM. Not sure about the other guy, but stick to the whole romantic type thing you have going on right now but more like "Muslim" girls cheating, etc....of course you need some actresses willing to that :P Edited by - Xhakorudan on 1/13/2016 11:34:08 AM
My scenes make their money back. How do I know? Because so far, my paychecks from my paysite exceed my expenditure. It does take a while to recoup my initial investment, but, unless you consider my living expenses also an expenditure, then it's still profitable. ...which means, say I make $2,500 back from a $2,000 scene, I still need to eat and pay rent, gas, bills, etc., which means that I'll make up the shortfall from somewhere else, which is my day job.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jan 13 2016 : 4:58PM
Porn is difficult to enter and takes a while to be profitable (and most of the time it isn't). If he even made $500 more than his production costs on his first scene then that should be considered a win. It isn't as simple as reviewing a business plan like in the real world. It will be a while before he earns a full time income from it and can quit his day job. That is just how it goes. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 1/13/2016 4:59:21 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Jan 13 2016 : 7:39PM
I doubt that ISIS would target you so long as your focus was on depicting muslim individuals participating in sexual activity rather than deliberately disrespecting and insulting the muslim religion itself. Obviously if you deliberately insult someones religious beliefs then you are rolling the dice , and gratuitously insulting a peoples religion isnt a good idea irrespective of the possibility of violent repercussions or not.
Other people have commented, but I wanted to make sure you got the point. If a scene costs $2000 to make, and after a month the scene has made $2500 in sales, then that's a $500 profit. But that doesn't mean he can use that $2500 to shoot another scene, because part of it may have to cover the $2000 that it cost to shoot the scene in the first place. Edit: And as he already said, that doesn't even get into living expenses and whatnot that the money may need to go to as well. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 1/13/2016 7:55:54 PM
Your math is off. If he is making a profit of $500 per scene then the more scenes he makes, the more profit he makes. Once he starts (which he has), then it quickly becomes a self-sustaining business and if he shoots enough scenes he can pull off the profit to pay his living expenses. Once the business is running, "saving up" to do another scene shouldn't enter into the equation. Now if he needs startup money, that's another story. But a $2,000 scene generating $500 profit provides a ROI of 25% in probably a few months; certainly much less than a year. With that type of return he should have no problems finding investors to fund all the scenes he can shoot. I would certainly invest $2,000 if I was guaranteed getting $2,500 back in 3-6 months. Heck, I would invest $20,000 for a deal like that. So would a lot of other people. Perhaps he should try one of the online startup investing websites or maybe he could go on Shark Tank.
I did skimp on my first scene though, via content trade for my videographer (TFP basis), hiring my friend instead for female talent (cheaper), borrowed a friend's hotel room, used a 30-day instead of a 14-day test, etc. That scene made more than enough net profit to cover my next scene, which naturally cost more, because how I did my first scene is based on luck and not a sustainable modus operandi. For my first scene, I simply wanted to successfully film a scene on my own that looks at least halfway-professional. That was my main aim, and also to recoup my cost. I also already had a 88k-strong following on Facebook then, and that helped sell my debut scene pretty well.
ADT Chatroom Survivor, Large Breast Connoisseur 176 Posts 8/08
Posted - Jan 15 2016 : 2:39AM
This is like saying "I started out with 1 million dollars and a dream and now I have 1.1 million dollars." Most people don't get started with exposure like that.
Posted - Jan 6 2016 : 5:18AM