I'll start by saying I'm a pretty liberal guy when it comes to sex, and this isn't really a moral hangup I have. I'm okay with pornography and I support the decriminalization of prostitution (don't know enough about regulation to support legalization yet), but I am of the opinion that people who have sex for money, whether they are paid directly or indirectly for it, do so because they can't do anything better with their lives and they mistakenly think they are talented just for being attractive and doing what pretty much anyone else can do. This is supported by the fact that very few of them genuinely love their jobs- the more of your comfort level you can sell out, the more successful you'll be.
I feel like my view is problematic because I hold a double standard towards prostitutes. If their price is cheap, I'll think "wow, they must be really desperate for cash and have no real skills, they don't even value their bodies highly!" But if they're an expensive escort, I'll think "hundreds of dollars for essentially being a pretty cum receptacle? Is their pussy made of gold or something?" It's like, if they've established "sex" to be "work," what makes them think they're worth that much?
I also don't think it's right to compare them to actors or massage therapists. Good non-porn actors have to get into character and convey a wide range of emotions that may not come naturally to them; sex workers just have to moan and thrash around, maybe wear a cheap costume for a non-convincing roleplay. Maybe be unique enough to appeal to fetishists. Massaging actually does take a bit more skill, it's more difficult than just letting strangers have their way with you. But then again, I don't have a lot of respect people whose best talent is that they can rub my back and make me feel good.
So why are you on this forum if you have so little respect for sex workers?
Sex is usually a financial or emotional transaction even when you're not a prostitute or porn actress. What makes them think they're worth that much is something called a client base willing to pay for their services? What counts as "anything better to do with their lives"? Working a joyless, dead-end minimum wage job that you would call "honest" work?
Not just anyone can do it. There is level of fortitude required to keep at it, part of which is dealing with those of ambiguous character and their prejudices claiming a sense of superiority.
What are the facts that so few genuinely love their jobs? What is the research or study that you have conducted to support what you decree as fact or have you just pulled the word "fact" out from where the sun doesn't shine in an attempt to give credence to your assertions?
I don't really disrespect them just because of their job, I just don't see any merit in the work other than money. I also feel like that's the only major reason people take up the job and hold it despite other opportunities. I feel like it's easy enough that I could do it if I were a girl. I've been offered $100 just to jerk it while someone watches, and I'm a straight guy and I wasn't even advertising.
I have a base amount of respect for all people, I just find nothing admirable about being a sex worker.
A person stocking shelves at Walmart either does so because doing what they really want is too expensive (because college is a bitch to pay for, etc.) or because it's their true calling in life (unlikely). Prostitutes don't really have this, they only do what they're comfortable with and make loads more money doing it, with no real justification other than because they can. Is it a more profitable job? Of course. Is it more exciting? Probably. Is it something that only a small amount of people can do? Not at all.
Personalities have nothing to do with the job, but if it does, then I think most escorts are incredibly arrogant. Just ask one why, exactly, they're worth half a month's pay at a minimum wage job, and they'll either harp on about how their sex is somehow 'superior' or they'll treat you like a jerk just for asking.
Maybe I should be more clear, I don't disrespect sex workers as people, I just disrespect the profession. I assume that the people in it only do so for economical reasons and that they'd rather not be having sex with strangers for money, which to me means they don't really respect themselves. And if they don't respect themselves, why should I?
Yes, you should always be clear. When you're going to make statements that can be perceived as contentious, clarity is essential.
The problem with assumption (without hard facts or evidence) is that the word begins with something you often sound or look like when your expectations aren't lived up to and that those expectations are surpassed. Some sex workers say their job is an interesting way for them (I emphasise them and not you) to meet new people and why not profit from something someone is willing to pay for?
I'm afraid to say your deduction of people stocking shelves at Walmart is oversimplified (quelle surprise). It certainly doesn't boil down to an two-way "either or" synopsis. A person working there may not have the job qualifications or skill set for higher-wage employment, that may be a university graduate who is struggling to find a job (dare I say) worthy of their degree, that person may be there at the behest of their parent(s) to instil a work ethic and show them how hard it is to earn money. I could go on but either way, the circumstances under which people work at Walmart aren't limited to one or two scenarios as you would have others believe.
I don't recall saying sex work is reserved for a minority of people but you're naive in thinking pretty much anyone can do it. While they may have the anatomical and physiological capacity to have sex with a stranger, many people will only have sex where they have an emotional, maybe even loving, connection with that person and no amount of money will persuade them otherwise. Saying you could do it if you were a girl because you think it's easy is foolish. You are saying it solely from you limited perspective and not considering that of other people, who put different value on sex from you.
Your argument denying of comparison between a porn actress and non-porn actress has one obvious problem. Not every woman can have an orgasm through sexual intercourse so a porn actress can indeed have to convey a range of emotions such as pleasure, euphoria, fatigue that don't come naturally to them through such activity. Before you go straw man and suggest I think a porn actress will be nominated for an Academy Award, don't waste your time, I don't think that but at the same time, putting people into silos just demonstrates remarkable ignorance when the reality is that there is often common ground.
So your respect or lack thereof for people is based solely on your perception and assumption of their self-respect? That is shamelessly prejudicial and shows a lack of interest in learning about others or that there's more to them than meets the eye. As I understand sex workers, in this case a porn actress, they work within boundaries and conditions of consent that they have set. Are you seriously going to tell us that setting boundaries and conditions of consent for a colleague or client is not a measure of self-respect?
For somebody who has claimed to be a minimalist before, you seem awfully preoccupied with what consenting adults do behind closed doors. I always thought that the lifestyle of minimalism is mental as well as physical so why would you clutter your mind and give so much of your time and thoughts to those who probably don't know you exist, let alone give you any of their time or thoughts?
I assume that the people in it only do so for economical reasons and that they'd rather not be having sex with strangers for money, which to me means they don't really respect themselves. And if they don't respect themselves, why should I?
Because they are our fellow human beings. Aside from that, "They're only in it for the money" applies to a great many people in any profession.
"people who have sex for money, whether they are paid directly or indirectly for it" would include porn actors. Do you have no respect for them either?
Fly Eagles Fly Super Bowl LII Champions Nova Nation 2016 and 2018 National Champions 5180 Posts 2/16
Posted - Sep 25 2019 : 1:13PM
First, why post on an adult forum? Second, why even watch porn then? The statement you made, " they mistakenly think they are talented just for being attractive and doing what pretty much anyone else can do. This is supported by the fact that very few of them genuinely love their jobs- the more of your comfort level you can sell out, the more successful you'll be," can be applied to other things as well. Someone could tell someone they should be a model. Music acts sell out all the time for fame. Regular actors can be told the same that they have talent when in reality they don't. Not everyone can have sex on camera just like I can't take a hit over the middle from a safety in the NFL. If someone likes having sex who cares if they want to do it to make money plus a lot of performers love interacting with their fans. Pornstars do more than "moan and thrash around." There are many performers today that you can genuinely tell they are not just going through the motions.
Fly Eagles Fly Super Bowl LII Champions Nova Nation 2016 and 2018 National Champions 5180 Posts 2/16
Posted - Sep 27 2019 : 12:28AM
^ Lol well if you don't even watch porn your argument kind of falls apart cuz then you don't know what you are talking about. They are human beings that get paid to have sex, big deal. If anything you gotta respect they do it on camera cuz doubt you could plus doubt you would want to cuz then yoy wouldn't respect yourself if you don't respect pornstars.
^ But you seem happy to pre-occupy yourself with talking about porn as if the industry lives rent-free inside your head. Perhaps it's true that you know something about porn but evidently you don't know a great deal about it as you decreed it's all the same when that notion is patently absurd.Who said they're mutually exclusive? Are you implying one replaces the other?
Fly Eagles Fly Super Bowl LII Champions Nova Nation 2016 and 2018 National Champions 5180 Posts 2/16
Posted - Sep 27 2019 : 1:07PM
Cool story, I agree with AngryPirate. So if it was "years ago" you don't know what you are talking about. That's like saying, "I watched the NFL ten years ago I'm an expert." Things change over the years whether its sports, music, and yes porn if you didn't know that. What if your partner decided they wanted to do porn? Guess you wouldn't respect them either.
Not sure how you can make these statements about sex workers if you are not actually sitting down and getting to know a cross section of them. Most of your assumptions are stereotypes and wrong with the majority of women in porn. This is probably one of the most female empowered eras in porn and the number of women who passionately love what they do is higher than ever.
You should go watch about 20 interviews with porn and sex workers on Holly Randall's youtube channel. The intellect and passion and success there is apparent through a cross section of women.
Asa Akira's podcast has several female performers doing one hour or longer interviews, and Steve Holmes has a youtube channel with interviews right after a scene.
If you watch and listen to all that content, if your mind isn't changed; then you are a fanatic who doesn't use evidence to form opinions. Your "I have a good sex life I dont need to watch porn" shows a strong bias and a complete lack of evidence based knowledge and instead forming opinions based on mythos and stereotype and closed minded notions.
