Another one of my fav girl/girl performers is now doing guys on her website. No names mentioned. I hate that. Yeah I know there are girls out there who do both girls and guys, and are good at both, but they've been doing that since they entered the biz. There's something brilliant about a sole girl/girl performer that the fans hold special. But when suddenly they're sucking off guys and taking it in the ass, then sorry I usually dump them. Haha. Bet I am not alone.
As long as they continue doing g/g I have no problems at all with this. Many of my fave b/g performers are doing anal and/or gang-bang scenes which are a complete turn-off for me, but I just ignore those and enjoy their other work. Porn stars often have to make trade-offs between the kinds of scenes they'd prefer to do and maximizing income while they can, and I respect their choices.
As someone who only watches gg content it makes no difference to me whether or not a performer decides to do bg. From their perspective it probably makes sense to branch out to a wider fan base. As long as they continue to still do gg content I am happy :)
I dont think I can say anything that would give you any solace. I honestly think g/g only porn and solo only porn is lame. I prefer either artistic nude, softcore nude, mainstream modeling to an extent, and fitness mainstream and fitness nude and hardcore b/g porn. But g/g only porn and solo only porn is too much in the mushy middle for me. Someone can correct me if Im wrong, but the g/g only trend didn't really start until the 2000s. I think the only pornstars in the 90s that only did g/g were Janine and Felicia.
^^Sounds like you aren't aware of the various types of G/G porn that's out there. Of course you're not alone, many G/G fans feel the same way. I don't mind when Gay 4 Pay G/G performers cross over, the sooner they stop stinking up the G/G world the better. Also I don't get too concerned when a girl who has been doing G/G for less than a year crosses over. Those types tend to have B/G written all over, so no point getting attached. But there is a way to cross over gracefully and with minimal backlash like say an Abigail Mac, who can balance both. Since it usually means less G/G work from a performer you like, it's only natural to be upset since there are so little true G/G only performers in the first place. Even more annoying when it feels like a girl didn't cross over because they actually wanted to but were hounded into it by B/G fans. But another reason, which is the elephant in the room is that B/G porn in general is pretty degrading. So it's difficult to see a girl you like treated that way, so much so that it can even taint their entire careers, so you can no longer even enjoy past scenes of them, which makes the prospect even worse.
^ How do you see porn you don't actively seek out? That's what always confounds me about these discussions. For example, I have no interest in watching femdom strap-on scenes featuring my favorite performers ass-fucking guys. So I've never watched them. As a result, when I'm jerking it to Kristina Rose I never have any negative intrusive thoughts of her railing some guy's ass. If all you're into is G/G, why are you watching the degrading B/G stuff in the first place? Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 9/4/2017 10:51:47 PM
^You can come across porn you're not interested in a variety of ways; Following performers on twitter, reading industry newsites, browsing company sites for the latest and upcoming releases. I didn't literally mean watching B/G scenes.
Frankly that opening post sounds as irrational as those rants from people who stop taking interest in a white female performer who does scenes with black men later in their career because of some pathetic racist insecurity/inferiority complex. If the women you put on a pedestal start doing b/g but they continue shooting g/g, why waste your time bitching about content you won't watch? "The fans" are nothing more than people who have the same taste as you. I am a "fan" of many a porn actress but that absolutely is not based her exclusively doing g/g.
^^ As a g/g fan, I get a fair idea of b/g porn from watching trailers for movies, especially showcase movies, where the g/g is one of four or five otherwise hetero scenes.
I agree that seeing someone you really like doing fewer of the kinds of scenes you enjoy is cause for lamentation, but do you have reason to think any exclusively g/g performers have crossed over because they were "hounded" into it? I'm not questioning the hounding (we see it here all the time), but I'm assuming that's much less a factor in their decision than more $ and career opportunities.I can't disagree with this, and I suspect it's the primary reason most g/g only performers don't cross over (or if they do, for choosing to sign with an "artistic" production company e.g. Kenna James' decision to shoot b/g scenes with x-art). It's also the main reason I can't watch 80% of mainstream porn.
^^Well there is no definite proof of course, but since they all get constantly hounded, it makes you wonder if it's a factor when girls who have said they are not interested eventually end up crossing over. I mean either they were broken down an hounded to the point that they did it, or it was their plan from the beginning and they were lying the whole time they said they wouldn't. Either scenario isn't fun.
It would be an elephant in the room if it were an indisputable fact that nobody wishes to discuss. What is "degrading" is a matter of perspective, not a matter of fact. B/G scenes in the likes of Wicked, Vivid, Digital Playground or X Art would be considered couple friendly by some but then you have stereotypical angry man-hating feminists sporting a bad buzzcut and Birkenstocks saying any form of pornography with women, b/g or g/g or solo girl, is "degrading". If by "b/g porn in general", you mean the likes of Facial Abuse, Max Hardcore, the circus acts in Legal Porno and any scene where male performers spit on the woman's face, I agree with you but again that's a reflection of my perspective on what can be considered "degrading". It's curious that nobody has talked about g/g scenes with rough treatment such some of the the g/g scenes on Kink.com or the Violation of... series from a few years ago. Much of the language and the acts performed by the women on other women in those examples is arguably rougher and more "degrading" than things I've scene in Wicked, Vivid, X Art or Digital Playground yet that hasn't been discussed.
I can't think of anyone who crossed over because they were hounded by fans. If you can provide me one example of that, I'd be shocked. Generally speaking, g/g only performers cross over either because it was always a part of their plan (and I'll agree with Aya that most of the time that's actually fairly obvious) or because they were only g/g only because of circumstances in their life, and those circumstances changed (usually this is just they had a significant other that didn't want them doing b/g porn, and either said person changed their mind or they became single. There is the occasional instance of just doing it because they need money, but I feel like we don't actually hear about those directly very often).
^Well like I said, there's no proof. What performer would ever come out say; "I was tired of being asked to do it so much, so I just gave up"? But I believe in addition to other reasons, it is a factor in the decision. ^^ What I'm saying has nothing to do with how the performers personally feel.It's the elephant in the room because G/G fans themselves don't really talk about it as being one the reasons they don't like seeing girls cross over. Studios like Wicked, Vivid, and the "Couples Friendly' genre, while significant isn't what the bulk of mainstream porn is about. Just take a look at what the majority of B/G porn is about and how it's marketed. It's often described as "Sluts, bitches, whores, etc." being destroyed, punished, blackmailed, and forced into doing sexual acts. While what is considered degrading is a matter of perspective, these are pretty generally accepted examples. This is also found in G/G porn, but on a smaller scale.
Degrading, apparently non-consensual acts in porn presumably fulfil fantasies for many people - nothing wrong with that necessarily provided fantasy is all it is. But there's just so fucking much of it! Is it a reflection on changing tastes in society in general? Way off topic, I know.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 6 2017 : 9:44AM
^"Degrading" porn doesn't seem all that prevalent to me, but I don't know if we're working from the same definition. What's "degrading" to you might merely be kinky to me. I can't say that I'm aware of there being a lot of "apparently non-consensual acts" in current porn, and I'm a fan of those scenarios.
I was referring to this part of Aya's observation: " It's often described as "Sluts, bitches, whores, etc." being destroyed, punished, blackmailed, and forced into doing sexual acts."
Precisely! When a B/G performer switches to G/G my interest plunges. but when a gorgeous and prolific G/G performer like Dani Daniels or Eva Lovia makes the move, Hallelujah!
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 6 2017 : 11:28AM
^^Well, the use of nouns such as "Sluts, bitches, whores, etc." was arguably even more prevalent during the gonzo era, so I wouldn't say that it reflects "changing tastes in society" today. Maybe it did back in gonzo era. I don't see a lot of pornstars being "destroyed" in mainstream scenes today, but, again, what "destroyed" means to me might be different from what it means to you. Has there been an upswing in scenarios in which women are "blackmailed, and forced into doing sexual acts"? That's not really my impression, but I think that Gore Gore Girl or maybe BlackSix would better know the answer to that.
Nope. This used to be so common in the 70s and 80s that it sometimes feels like an integral part of adult cinema of that era. Straight up rape scenes would just pop up in the middle of an otherwise not-rapey film. And of course there were also entire films constituted by rape (known as roughies). Some of the classics of the era, seen as female friendly and classy, are filled with coercion plots and violence. I think what has changed in the recent twenty-first century is the "I love it" attitude of the female performer. No matter what the performer is doing, they tend to go at it with a gusto that sometimes feels forced to me. In the early 2000s you could find a lot more porn that I would describe as bleak. There are plenty of scenes from that time where the performers do not appear to be having a good time. That was the peak era for what I imagine people would think of as degrading. I find a lot of that stuff pretty depressing.
The subject of this thread has been discussed around ADT numerous times. Essentially, some fans have their fantasy bubble burst when their favorite g/g- only performers take cock. It may seem silly, they know the girl is straight/bisexual in real life. Regardless the genre, when the fantasy is gone, porn can be quite dull.
That way of putting it actually makes me a little more sympathetic to OP and like-minded users. I guess the reason I have a hard time understanding the mentality is that I compartmentalize my fantasies and don't extend them beyond the confines of any single scene I'm viewing at a given moment. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 9/7/2017 2:08:05 AM
My main issue with that "fantasy" mindset is that it's frequently taken way too far, and it becomes clear that some people expect their fantasies to be adhered to by the real-life performers, not just the characters they portray. B/G porn is just what happens to shatter that fantasy most frequently, but it's not the actual problem as such - a social media image of a performer with her boyfriend would probably do the same thing if the situation is clear enough and can't be rationalized away. Anyway, I don't feel that's a particularly healthy way to approach porn, and it's also not one I'm feeling all that compelled to respect as just a personal choice. Edited by - shalalin on 9/7/2017 2:30:50 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 7 2017 : 4:42AM
Your disdain for b/g porn and fans has always been pretty obvious but this is a remarkably ignorant and absurd statement. As thick-skulled as those who dismiss g/g.
^Just because I'm not into B/G porn doesn't mean I have disdain for it or it's fans. I've never called them 'thick-skulled' for instance. I stand by the accuracy of the statement. What's absurd is not being able to see the truth in it.
^ There exists degrading b/g porn out there. That doesn't mean that b/g porn in general is degrading, or even that the degrading stuff makes up the majority of the content. There's g/g content that gets aggressive as well, but you'd never hear people say that g/g porn is inherently degrading. And let's be real, Kenna James literally hasn't shot b/g with anyone except X-Art, yet there are still people that would say she's sullied herself by doing b/g porn. Your argument is, more or less, the same argument people try to use when they argue that IR porn is degrading as well.
^Since what someone considers degrading is pretty subjective, what is actually degrading can't really be proven conclusively. But I still disagree that it's not a majority of B/G porn. My point is that since it outweighs what most consider 'vanilla' porn, it's still fair to say in general. And I already said that there is also degrading G/G porn, but in a much smaller proportion as compared to B/G porn. That's why there aren't any complaints about it, because it's one of many sub-genres of G/G and not the majority. And again, what somebody considers degrading is subjective. So while B/G fans may be bored to tears with Kenna's B/G scenes, some G/G fans were disgusted. I said the degrading aspect is just one of the potential reasons that G/G fans don't like seeing girls cross over, so I don't know why it's being latched onto as the only reason.
^ That's rather disingenuous. You didn't state that what somebody counts as degrading is subjective nor did you concede that "degrading" g/g porn exists until you were called out on both points.
^^I thought that it was pretty obvious that what one considers degrading is a matter of personal opinion, so not necessary to state outright. The point about degrading G/G porn was brought up and I addressed it in subsequent posts. I didn't have to concede degrading G/G porn exists Because I never said that it didn't.
I had the same response. In my case, I don't compartmentalize my fantasies. But my fantasy porn star is down for just about anything- whether it turns me on or not. My main porn fantasy is that the female performer is a real-life exhibitionist. This comes tantalizingly close to the reality- in that they are all performing so viewers can get off to them. Intellectually, I know that there are a lot of reasons a girl might get into porn besides exhibitionism. Moreover, I understand that, even for real life exhibitionists, the experience of being filmed may be more exciting than imagining the viewer at home. Still, my fantasy is fed by stars who entertaining all of their fans' perverse fantasies.
Just chiming in here regarding the intended meaning of "degrading." I never meant to suggest that porn stars (God bless them every one) are degrading themselves by doing whatever they may decide to do on camera, but I suspect a lot of what happens in mainstream b/g porn *feels* pretty degrading to the femme performers. No matter how convincing their acting may be or what they claim to love in interviews and features, I'm pretty sure having your eyes sprayed with cum or having a huge dick shoved up your rectum or down your throat until you gag is not actually a pleasant or rewarding experience for them. (I'm sure Riley Reid will be here momentarily to set me straight, lol)
^ You're only sure of that because you're projecting what you wouldn't find pleasant or rewarding. As odd as it might be to you, people find all sorts of things rewarding or appealing. A porn actress (or a non porn girl) may be a masochist, she may be very submissive and take pleasure in all sorts of things. For many sexual things, it's pointless to lump people into one category. Someone will always take genuine pleasure in sex act XYZ.
^^ Or I may have watched/read interviews with former porn stars talking about their careers. Certainly there are women (and I'm sure this includes some porn stars) who genuinely enjoy these activities as well as being beaten or pissed on or whatever, but I think they're mostly about making us guys feel a total domination over partners that we rarely/never experience in real life.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 10 2017 : 8:20PM
^I'm not sure why people attach so much weight to the comments of ex-pornstars. Active pornstars have reasons to be dishonest about enjoying their work, yes, but former pornstars have reasons to be dishonest about not enjoying their work too. Since when has it been socially acceptable to go around saying that you like "being beaten or pissed on"? Kink shaming and slut shaming is still very common, and women who have worked in porn already have a stigma attached to them. Would they rather be perceived as victims or as a sluts/whores? We can also talk about the shame former pornstars might feel about having enjoyed their work. I don't think the common view is that it is good and healthy for women to enjoy sex work. Of course that has an impact. I agree that mainstream porn is generally filmed for the viewer, not the pornstar, but I don't know why that should mean that pornstars don't enjoy performing.
^ Not suggesting they all don't enjoy their work, just that there are certain aspects of the job most find unpleasant. And I think that's why many non-lesbian performers admit to preferring g/g scenes. This is not the place for me to get into an extended argument about my views on this since ADT is an industry-affiliated site and mainstream porn is all about pandering to male fantasies (and if I get banned how would I know where to find my favorite stars' latest scenes? lol). So I will acknowledge I don't know everything and respectfully decline to make any further commentary on this topic.
^ hate to break it to you, non-lesbians prefer it because it is a easy paycheck. They still enjoy dick. It's just that the dicks used in porn cause more physical damage and can put girls out of commission and when they cant shoot, they cant get paid. For example, Remy LaCroix shot a scene with Lex for a showcase and she couldnt shoot any b/g for two or so months because of how rough she went in that scene, she avoided shooting with Lex for a considerable amount of time because of how much time she missed. Meanwhile, she was still able to lick labias and get a dildo stuffed in her but her pay dropped off considerably during that stretch
Posted - Sep 4 2017 : 1:06PM
