but i'm not talking about POV... I'm talking about regular gonzo flicks where the girl is fucking a guy CG then looks back over her shoulder.. thats so unnatural
She's doing us viewers a favor...eliminates the need for the cameraman to cutaway from the sex to do the totally unnecessary and poorly-timed face close-up (girl's face, then guy's face, then back to the sex).
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 1:09AM
You don't know what "gonzo" means in reference to porn do you? [o\|] It is totally normal for performers in gonzo to acknowledge the camera and the fact they are being filmed.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 1:12AM
Gonzo: founder of gonzo is John "Buttman" Stagliano. His wife Tricia Devereaux was kind enough to give us THE definition: "Gonzo can take on several different forms. It can vary from the cameraman (in adult, very often the director) interviewing the actors, or participating in the scene with dialogue and/or sex. It can also mean that the actors are simply acknowledging the fact that there is a camera shooting what they are doing. So, although in adult gonzo, the cameraman is usually somehow visible or audible, simply the actors playing to the camera constitutes a gonzo scene." Taken from the "porn dicktionary" found on the left of the page. EDIT: here is a link. This whole thread is totally pointless and irrelevant as the original poster doesn't have any understanding of his own topic.
Friends - Agree with the thread starter. Don't particularly care for that practice of having the girl deliberately looking back at the camera. Especially when the action is in cowgirl or doggy. But I also agree with the desire to see the girl's face, either in closeup or from a wider perspective.
I'd just prefer to have the cameraperson do their job, AND MOVE THEIR FEET. Unless they are shooting in a phone booth, I feel it's better to have the action flow naturally and have the camera move to various vantage points, then to have the actors do specific things to support more static camera positions or to acknowledge the camera. Or worse, when some girls actually play to and mug for the camera. I find that irritating. I like seeing the action from as many aspects as possible, with the performers doin' what they do. BSD Edited by - BSD on 1/11/2008 1:32:32 AM
Oh no, looking at the camera is great. During especially blowjobs it's the best, but doggy style or whatever fucking too. What I hate is the girl looking off at the director or what I figure is a monitor showing the image the camera is capturing to check herself out.
^To me, looking at the monitor or the director is just as distracting as looking at the camera the whole time. Both remind me of the fact that this is not real sex; it's just a performance. I know there is an effin' camera there. The girl already acknowledged it during the tease and interview section. I don't need her to keep doing it every 3 seconds. She might as well hold up a sign that says "This is all fake". I'd like to think that I'm watching 2 people have sex, just going at it without even knowing there is a camera there. That is infinitely hotter to me than having a girl look through the lens the whole time with a fake, forced expression on her face. It also gives me a sense that she is so repulsed by her partner that she'd rather look off at the camera than in the direction of her partner. Every time there is a debate here about anal, oral or any other act, I keep hearing that people like to imagine they're the guy doing the girl. How often do you fuck a girl while she's looking in every direction but at YOU!?...It's scripted and unnatural. The only place it belong is in POV.
I don't get all this concern about the girl "giving away" that the action is fake. This is porn, for god's sake, not real life. If you want the illusion of the lovemaking being real, without the director nearby with a camera capturing every move, and the director's assistant (and who knows how many other guys/gals) gawking from the sidelines, then maybe you want to watch features or couples porn. Gonzo, however, is totally fake, and I don't care a whit. It's the sex I want to see, not some artifice that approximates real-life lovemaking.
Tonebone stated it perfectly. Personally , I have always hated Gonzo because of this camera ackowledgement thing. As much as I realize that it's what gonzo is all about , it pisses me off that this genre became so popular and dominating in porn. POV is one thing , as is camera acknowledgement for the tease ..or to begin a scene , but non stop mugging for the camera is extremely annoying and , to me, it kills the fantasy of realism.
Does it make a difference if the girl gives a "deer in headlights" type of look or if it is seductive? I have no idea if you can tell these apart even.
What I prefer is if the girl knowingly and consciously looks at the camera as she's performing various acts of nastiness (or having such acts performed on her). Just looking at the camera without it being apparent that she's aware that she's connecting with the viewer is much less exciting.
Yep! Makes the viewer feel involved in the scene. I LOVE flirtatious, sassy, dirty women talking to the camera, sometimes acting like goofballs! Some prudes may say, "These girls have no shame!" I say, "Damn, right!!!" Flaunt it! :)
i'm not saying she should NEVER look at the camera at any point (fuck concuntador..i understand what gonzo is..he's not understanding what i'm talking about) I'm saying that in certain positions where the camera is completely out of her field of view and she has to turn the top half of her body (while still fucking CG or doggy) comes off as breaking the flow of the scene and unnatural to the act. Edited by - alex the droog on 1/11/2008 1:27:06 PM
LOL! Okay, with that clarification Droog, I can see your point. Made for an interesting thread, though!
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 1:28PM
^^^ Okay, since I seem to be missing your point what exactly are the "natural" parts of a "regular gonzo" scene? The whole people being paid to have sex in front of a camera part of gonzo and of porn as a whole would seem to make all of it qualify as "unnatural". Have you considered watching more "feature" style movies? The camera acknowledgment issue isn't so prevalent in almost all features I have watched. Edited by - conquistador on 1/11/2008 1:32:51 PM
but its fantasy...and in order to enjoy a fantasy you have to immerse yourself in it. The best movies are the ones where you can imagine yourself as the protagonist or at least forget that your watching a movie. Porn is no different
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 1:41PM
Is it the guy (sometimes guys) or the girl (sometimes girls) who acts as the protagonist in gonzo? I must be missing some of the plot elements of this stuff. EDIT: left out a word. Edited by - conquistador on 1/11/2008 1:44:28 PM
or at the very least one of the characters... EDIT: conquistador is a troll asshole
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 1:58PM
I'm not trying to troll you. When you said that it was a problem when girls in gonzo scenes acknowledged the camera I just wanted to let you know that that is totally normal and expected for gonzo scenes. Then I went on to prove my point. Cool your jets. The word "protagonist" is hardly ever (89 times on this board since '99) used in reference to porn and I wanted to know what you meant. Are you surprised that I would be curious about calling a gonzo actor or actress a "protagonist" as I have hardly (if ever) seen them actually playing characters in gonzo movies? Calm down. I am not trying to troll you I was just asking you to elaborate on what you were talking about. Protagonists drive plots. Gonzo doesn't have plots. Thus my confusion. Sorry to have offended you with my horrible ignorance.
I never said that I didn't like it when the girl acknowledges the camera (which is something they generally do thru out the scene) I said I hate when they LOOK BACK during a certain sex position. THAT was what i was talking about.gonzo can have plots its usually that the plots are so banal and overused no one even notices anymore. If the definition of gonzo is acknowledging the camera then scenes where they pretend to pick a girl on the street and the male performer is trying to convince to go back to his place under the guise of shooting a documentary or photography or to make a boyfriend jealous blah blah blah... all the while the girl is looking at the camera and the cameraman is helping to convince her. As thin as it may be thats the plot of that scene. The male performer is the protagonist in those kinds of scenes Edited by - alex the droog on 1/11/2008 2:15:23 PM
Gee, thanks for the tip, champ! Way to miss the point.So to recap your logic, Gonzo is totally fake, but Features with the cheesy plots and comical acting are somewhat more real? Give me a break. In case I didn't make myself clear enough in my first post: I KNOW PORN IS FAKE. But the viewer doesn't have to be reminded of it every 2 seconds. Fake is never sexy. The more the performers can convince the viewer that he's witnessing real sex, the hotter the experience is. I'd much rather think that the girl is caught up in a sexual frenzy and is totally into her partner, than watch her make goofy faces at the camera and recite inane comments that I've heard 10,000 times by now.
ToneBone forgive me for cutting up your post, and the op forgive for this post being off topic. I am confused. You guys know that porn is pure fakery, and everyone is Okay with it?.
This is the problem that I have with Vanessa Blue. She's always looking at the camera. The 'making love to the audience' act. Otherwise, I worship her.
This is the problem that I have with Lauren Phoenix. Otherwise, Lauren Phoenix is a badass chick, with a badass butt who loves black dick. And you know? She reminds me of another Monica Sweetheart. She kinda had this problem here and there, but in Monica's case, it wasn't really severe.
I like to look at the lady's face when a guy is fucking her. From the expressions on her face you can see the feelings and the sensations she gets from getting fucked. And it makes her fuck more real for me. But you are right that when a lady looks directly at the camera and at you, the viewer. Then it is a distraction. It's as if the lady forgets about the guy banging her and starts paying attention to you, the observer, instead. A lady who apparently becomes indifferent to the sex on her is always a big turn-off for me, regardless of the way it happens. I like to see the lady's face a lot. But I would rather have her look either straight in the eye of the guy banging her, or at his hard cock pumping her, or in the direction of her ass if she is having anal sex that is. This way she shows her interest and involvement in the sex that she is having. And from the expressions on her face, you can also see the psychological effects of the sex on her. Sexual intercourse has both physical and psychological components. And a porn scene needs to show both physical and psychological parts of sex in order to give the viewer the full experience of it and not make him feel as though something is missing and something is not hot.
I agree with the thread starter. Acknowledging the camera is certainly no problem and can be hot. But the sustained looking at the camera is bad becuase it means she is not looking at her partner, which kills chemistry. BTW, I HATE POV stuff for the same reasons. As soon as I see a DVD is POV, I will not rent no matter who's in it. Edited by - skyway on 1/12/2008 9:23:24 PM
I prefer when both onscreen partners have their eyes glued to each other in a heat of passion. However, the occasional "you see how naughty I am" glance at the camera is great, too. Whatever is honest, real, and connected, works for me.
I used to hate when a female star would look at the camera too. It would take me out of the moment. until Sabrina Johnson. i was watching some Elegant Angel flick and for the life of me i cant remeber the name of the movie but she was getting it good and she looked right onto the camera and gave this slight smile.like i caught her. It was so fricken hot.then a little later on the guy was pounding the crap out of her and she turns to the camera again and looks at it in such a way that it was like i was fucking her. Been a fan of POV and interactive films ever since. Theres a select few female stars that can pull off the "look" but none are as good as Sabrina Johnson. Tricia does it very well also.....
Someone brought up the psychological aspect of porn and I think that plays a huge part here. One of the reasons stars like Vanessa Del Rio, Ashlyn Gere, and Debi Diamond became legends was that they always seemed %100 into their partner, no matter who he was. They always did a great job of convincing us we were witnessing real sex. They couldn't have done that if they just mugged for the camera the entire scene. When the girl looks more at the camera than at her partner, the chemistry completely goes out the window. And by chemistry, I don't mean lovey dovey intimacy, I mean a real physical connection between the two people having sex. Then again, in an era when milk enemas are considered "erotic", it doesn't surprise me that some viewers don't care about chemistry.
Yep. And I really think all of this is related to POV stuff as well. Why is that shit so popular? A lot of the tme the dude has to hold the camera while fucking whch TOTALLY kills chemistry. In addition to the chick looking into the camera all the time. That stuff is a total WASTE, IMO.
^ Honestly, as long as its kept to it's own genre, I don't mind. Apparently some people do like it, so put it in those POV flicks and market it to them. This way they get what they want, and the rest of us who want to watch more realistic sex can get ours too. This whole notion that the girl must make faces at the camera the whole time "because it's Gonzo" is pure BS.
Yeah and it seems a lot of the websites are doing this and its annoying. Very few GOOD websites out there, just a lot of stupid gonzo sites with chicks staring into the camera. Part of it may be the overuse of unattractive males that can't really turn the girls on.
"Lovely to look upon, heaven to touch, a real damn shame they got to cost so much." 60 Posts 6/07
Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 5:21PM
When you say 'unnatural', I think that depends on your experience. You have obviously not spent any time at swingers parties. "Don't piss down my neck an' then tell me it's rainin'." Edited by - heynow on 1/16/2008 11:52:49 PM
Introducing Kalani Luana
Posted - Jan 10 2008 : 11:57PM
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