this may be illuminating:that's just from wikipedia. it's not a complete and self-sufficient theory, it's a tangent from his larger existential argument. i certainly agree that labelling oneself as an existentialist is problematic, and it is mostly because it is paradoxical, but perhaps not in a literal sense. it's sort of like pastafarianism -- it's an idealogical framework that creates context for looking at other frameworks. it admits it doesn't know all the answers, it just hopes to provide the most honest, rational, utilitarian ones to either be embraced or rejected. oops. wrote a bit much.
actually, it ended up being short, i just cut out a lot so it felt longer.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 1:24PM
How I got curious to how "existence precedes essence" can be rational. One would think of rationality as its very antithesis. Wouldn't existentialism merely reject the idea that there are any answers? Both the concept of answers and rationality for sure imply universal essence. I've always thought of the spaghetti monster and pink unicorn as satire strongly founded in rationalism. IIRC they stem from the orbiting teapot (Russell).
Although this isn't directly on point regarding your thoughtful post, one problem is that Sartre didn't actually write that. He wrote something in French; then the English translator wrote that. Translation is a tricky business and can't help but miss, to some extent, the subtleties of another language. "Lost in translation," as they say. Some people say that Heidegger, for example, can't be properly understood other than when read in the original German; I've certainly found him close to impenetrable in English. (Of course, that might just be because I'm not smart enough to "get" him.)
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 3:50PM
My french is limited mostly to courtesy phrases such as "bonjour" or "cassez-vous", so exploring Sartre in his original language is unfortunately not an option. Like mentioned I'm not well read, but it would be interesting to look into how Sartre could combine his existentialist philosophy with his political ideology. From the onset, they seem contradictory. Edit: we can leave the politics out of this thread though. Edited by - Dither on 11/2/2007 3:53:45 PM
well, i don't think that's really what that area of existentialism is addressing. what that means is that you are born before you are Dither. i am struggling to remember the analogy he used, but i guess you could compare it to the blank canvas metaphor. you're not born as Dither, ADTer. and you're not born predisposed to always be Dither, ADTer. you may or may not become that person. which 1) rejects the notion of an intelligent designer, 2) means you must take action with your own life, and can't hide behind proverbs and platitudes. i am not explaining this clearly, but the point i'm trying to make is that your queries with existentialism won't be address by this part of it because it's apples and oranges.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 7:58AM
I'm not sure if I follow, but ok. I queried impromptu, so answers may have to be ad hoc, I don't know. I'm still curious though, especially to the conception of "meaning" in the beforementioned sense and how one can derive anything more from the notion that "life has no meaning a priori" than just that.
I think you're right, Dither. The traditional understanding of "meaning" meant "a priori" meaning and, from that perspective, Sartre's statement is contradictory. My sense is that he was simply redefining the word "meaning": There's no (cosmic) meaning so we have to create and settle for (personal) meaning. Or, to put it another way: Despite and because of the fact that life lacks meaning, we have to struggle to make our lives meaningful. In a way, he's playing on words and shifting the discussion from the metaphysical to the ethical.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 12:32PM
I'm with you. I think my leanings are probably more rationalist than existentialist, but the former is certainly not without its flaws either (esp. wrt metaphysics). Devoting to one -ism, regardless of which, can easily turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy I think (but this of course also goes for scepticism). They're all fascinating constructs though, and it's important to keep challenging dogma and conformity.
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sam46 Deactivated User
564 Posts 1/07
Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 2:10PM
Alisha Klass once admitted to being an admirer of Soren Kierkegaard, an actor, not a spectator.
As I probably stated before, my leanings are more towards Ayn Rand than anything else, but specifically in the realm of ethics... Objectivism by Ayn Rand
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 6:54AM
Not only do I find Ayn Rand's "philosophy" shallow and hollow, but in effect also misanthropic. She links human value so closely to materialistic rationality, that she basically says those acting in an irrational manner are void of any worth as living beings. "The virtue of selfishness"...give me a break.
Misanthropic, as in "anti-humanist". She equates lack of reason with lack of human value, in effect meaning she deprives all humans of their humanity. Human behaviour isn't governed by rationality alone, that's what makes us human. Edited by - Dither on 11/6/2007 2:54:29 PM
I am not a porn star, DUH! I think I am an uncertain existentialist. I think therefore I am, I think? Or maybe I am a passive aggressive existentialist. I think I would exist if I were you! It's all fun and games until someone gets an ear poked out!
This topic fascinated me. I love to read Jean Paul Sartre and Simone DeBeauvoir but they are exceptions. I don't think many porn girls care about existentialism. Plust they lve the unknown, Fuck me!
LOL the above is what happens when I try to reply on my phone. I meant to say, that I don't think many porn girls care about philosophy in general, but also that the majority of fans don't care either away. For instance, tweeting "fuck me!" on Twitter will get way more attention from the guys then "I'm listening to a Cambridge lecture on the works of Albert Camus" for obvious reasons. But its similar to other careers. I don't expect a Starbucks barista to provide stand up comedy, just like I don't expect the postman to teach me about bioengineering. Of course, it'd be interesting if they did, but they have their respective talents and I don't expect them to showcase genius outside of their fields. Personally I enjoy some existentialism, but other philosophic schools of thought as well. But in constructing my public porn image, I keep the focus on what I'm known for--fucking! The academic stuff is a side note.
Chloe Temple Interview
Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 9:33AM
