i think some people here, especially employee of the porn industry or this board dont know how p2p works.
brandon reached that filenexus is down, but we dont know if it was brandon or not because filenexus are often down due to problems. ok let us believe it was brandon. but was it really a vistory?
NO. why? other sites with the links still exist and even if all site would be closed the movie is still in the network and shared every day. i can find it with the search engine of the p2p client in 2 seconds, i dont need websites with the links. and i can find a movie without that it posted on a website too, so i can find every new movie which hits the network without a site like filenexus.
another point is, you are still talking about p2p only, i know becasue due to the RIAA actions its very popular.
but p2p is only a small system compared to the other ones i mentioned in my first post.
the way a movie find the networks is a group rips it (i showed you one site how many they rip every day) and spread it with FTP/FXP on lines we can dream of. then a few people put it on IRC to spread it on lines where the smallest is a 10mbit line. then some people put it on the p2p networks as a last step on the slowest lines (average upstream 32 kb/s). so all in all i would say the p2p is not as mighty as the other 2. if i can find a movie in the irc direct, i can download a 700mb large movie with my 1 mbit line in 3-4 hours, depends on the server and demand. with a p2p client i need more than one day, because the lines are slow and a file is not sent in one piece and they guys who have it must be online too, whly in IRC the servers are up 24/7 the most time.
but i would say that the p2p user is the most unprotected, its easy to find out its ip. but try this on the guys behind the ftp or irc servers .... good luck!
what i want to say is, even if you could kill every p2p user ripper or regular downloader you still reached nothing to prevent piracy, because the other systems still exist and are very well protected.
you cant get legal with a billion p2p user who are spreaded around the world, its sensless. RIAA try to get legal with another 500 users, sorry but i need 5 minutes to laugh LOOOOOL. 500, in words five hundreds. what is 500 from a billion? did you recognize that the RIAA is active in the US states only????? maybe some americans still believe the US states are the entire world because they are mighty. what is about the rest of the world? i can tell you --> happy spreading of files
i cant belive that some people dont see that this is a fight you cannot win. a pirat in the internet is not like a thief in a real store. the lawyer of the RIAA maybe just continue this war because it not their money they waste every day although they know that they cannot win. you can win against a few users but not against the whole system.
is the RIAA not prove enough? how many proves do some people need to see that its senseless?
same with copy-protections. its a simple mathematical equation. how many people develop copy protections and how many people against it (they are even kids) .. who will have more ideas in the same time to protect/crack a medium? of course the pirates, thats why a new copy-protection worked only a few days. and its stupid to belive that a method to protect something has no anti-method to crack it. so you should not waste your time with copy-protection too!
my advise is ... think about alternatives to DVDs on stores. how can you make it more attractive to buy and download it legal from you instead of a piracy-network. in my eyes that is the key!
if you think you could win the war against a billion of piracy-network useres who are spreaded all over the world in countries with different laws then good luck! maybe after years of fighting (like the RIAA) you will look back and remember my words (and count your wasted money).
I consider it a victory when I remember to floss! I think you make some good business points, but even very small victories (sp?) make a diffrence! you can't win a war without winning a battle first!
If the anti-piracy crowd 'poisons the well' by uploading false files, junk files or viruses, I don't really care how complex the network is or how many layers it has. It will do their work for them. Same with creating false nodes, or overloading servers.
Now creating an iTunes like approach is a reasonable thought. Many studios already offer VOD, and PPV services, though. And their work is still pirated. That's because there are people who simply thieves and vandals. Legitimate avenues won't interest them.
Scott Kinney Diversified Video Associates www.xxx-imports.com
I'm not so sure this is an ineffective as you make out. For every 500 who you press charges against there are many millions who read about it and many of them will be put off downloading because of it. We've already stated how little most people understand of the scope and machinations of the online world and of how these technologies work. At the other end of the scale there are millions of people shit scared to as much as open an email for fear of getting a virus and I'm sure the RIAA can scare a significant number of people away from up/downloading music and even if many millions remain it may still have been a worthwhile exercise on their part.
Uploading viruses... hmm isn't that illegal too ? ;-)
Ok if I get you right, you suggest a full scale war on pirates. But wait a minute - aren't those pirates also your customers? Will those actions make them happy and willing to buy your products? The answer is... No. The harder you strike on them the more you upset them.
Also I don't think this will have a significant effect. The famous napster was really small compared to the P2P networks available now. And I'm totally sure, that these are small compared to what will come next.
What was once copying a VHS tape for your friends will in the future be trading DVD-copys with people all over the world.
So I really suggest you try to cope with the future possibilities and make money from it. Like it was mentioned earlier in the thread.
Is Deluxe Pass illegal or not? Please only respond if you KNOW the answer. I would appreciate if someone from Red Light District would let me know. I have assumed that the material is licensed since it is copyrighted and you have to pay for the content. I hope I am correct.
I'll wait for someone from Red Light to answer as well, although you can find posts from Jules Jordan about problems he's had with them.
Your second-to-last sentence is a non-sequitir, though, the material can be illegally duplicated even though it is copyrighted, and even though you're paying for access to it. You're paying the bootlegger for access to stuff they've bootlegged. Assuming of course someone from Red Light chimes in.
Scott Kinney Diversified Video Associates www.xxx-imports.com
[Link]
*Mutt* Deactivated User
752 Posts 8/03
Posted - Feb 18 2004 : 9:21PM
DeluxePass is sorta legal. They do have licenses for the Redlight District DVDs ....BUT..... as you know DeluxePass is an AVS, there is no real website called DeluxePass, it is a collection of websites owned by third party webmasters who use DeluxePass to provide them with a way to make money and control who has access to their sites. You pay DeluxePass to get access to sites they don't own or operate. 99% of those webmasters do NOT have licenses to RLD movies but have the movies on their sites. DeluxePass took it upon themselves to interpret the inexpensive web license they paid for as a license to allow anyone who created a website and used their service to have the RLD movies. They really don't have that right. RLD could have sued, still could. DeluxePass probably has a lawyer who has another interpretation and has put some legal mumbo jumbo on their site to protect them but it wouldn't stand up in court. It's pretty obvious what the situation is there.
DeluxePass and AdultBouncer have always had massive amounts of unlicensed illegal content.
There are a bunch of other clones of DP and AB out there. Their day is almost done, VISA does not like the concept of Adult Verification Services. Of the third party processors who process credit cards for adult paysites only IBILL will still provide processing for an AVS - they have gotten around VISA's policy by changing the name of AVS to AEN - Adult Entertainment Network. As well when you come upon a site that is part of DeluxePass you will see that the webmaster can no longer advertise the fact that when you join his site you get access to 100's of other sites. VISA will eventually catch on and close them down. Then they'll incorporate in Europe and get a merchant account from a European bank and process the credit cards themselves.
that is right. but would you start a war against a mighty enemy (e.g. cuba against usa) if you know you will win the first 5 battles but at the end you will lose? that is what i say over and over. yes you can catch a few persons and maye for every person you catched 1000 will surrender scared, but the system will still work.companies tried to send corrupt files or corrupt chunks into the network already ... the problem was solved really fast. if the client finds a source who is sending bad chunks the ip of the source will be filtered
oh yes a virus in the network which will infect a billion pcs on the world. i bet all the companies all over the world will like it (and when they read, that the porn industry have sent it they will yell "hoooray", lol), your own too, because it will come back to you on another way. nice boomerang. that is like shooting with a c-weapon and then the wind changes. anyway, viruses are illegal ...
overloading servers? which ones? a serverless network already exist (overnet) and emule serverless is in development.
dont believe that the development of the p2p on the current level will stay there. the clients will get better and better and whatever you will plan the pirates will solve it.
the good persons always believe they would be smarter than the bad ones. well nobody is smarter than the other. the fact is that maybe 5 "good" have to deal with maybe 100 "bad" ones. so the capacity in solving a problem is on the site of the bad ones, they have more brains to think about it (and for free, while you have to pay the persons who should protect your products).
i just read an article (sorry its not in english, i would show it you) where they tell that the illegal downloads of mp3 rise again since november last year. half a year ago the downloads dropped, because of the actions of the RIAA
in another article i read that people started to sue against the RIAA, because they would use illegal (mafia) methods to make pressure on mp3-downloaders. they give you the chance to choose between to pay 3000$ or to risk a suit. lots of people would pay even if unguilty (and we know that RIAA sues everyone, even grandmas with a mac pc, rofl) because they would be scared to get sued from a mighty organisation like the RIAA.
nice battle .... well i think they can be only one who will win it, the lawyers, because they get your money
I think it's because, in the end, the computer isn't the best way to read a book -- you can't bring it into the john, etc.
Porn, however, loses nopthing in the translation... and in the end, its viewed as disposable by a majority of its users.
Maybe you find a scene that keeps you going so it has some re-watchable value for you, but on the whole -- at least with me -- is its forgotten about once its back in the mail to XRent.
There are so many different rationales for file "sharing" that its impossible to list them all. They range from "sticking it to the man" to "look how much music/porn/warez I downloaded"
Berkeley Digital Rights Management Conference: about DRM DRM as an enabler of business models
Nothing's 100%. But new technologies are available which implement some of the things I've yammered about: expiration dates on files, authentication and encryption, remote key servers with expiring keys which render files unplayable after a set period of time, many, many things now and on the horizon.
Making the lawyers rich is one way. Embracing technology and finding new business models is another. As a technology evangelist rather than a lawyer, my bias is obvious.
Can these be broken? Well, I'm not going out on that limb and say "no way no kid is breaking a 1536-bit key". But I'm a word guy, not a mathematics guy. There are surely ways. Think of the amount of casual theft it could stop, though.
Look at what Authentica is doing with Office documents. They're implementing the expiring key concept I mentioned, so even if a file is backed up or burned on a CD, it won't open. "Share" these all you want. Without the corresponding private key on a server somewhere, it ain't opening.
And bear in mind, as I'm sure you're fully aware -- this is all so much horseshit coming from someone who hasn't actually implemented a lick of this stuff.
Nice stream of consciousness there. Please excuse me while I attack it.......
I understand how this would identify the original purchaser, but where does it get you? Imagine you are running an adult studio. Joe Sixpack, who is buying 1 or 2 DVDs every month, sells one of his old discs to a friend. The friend's kid copies it for a schoolmate. The schoolmate puts it on Kazaa, and the studio sends out the troops. Joe gets a mean looking lawyer pounding on his door.
Up until then, Joe was one of your best customers. He never stole anything, or broke any laws. He was a source of regular income to you, but you are annoying the hell out of him. I ask you, is that man ever going to buy a movie from you again?
Each time the process bungs up, and a purchased disc or download fails to play when the buyer gets it home, Poof! One lost paying customer. How many can you afford to lose?
No lost hackers - they convert to analog, capture, recode without keys or watermarks, and upload, while crowing about their "leet" skills. If it can be viewed, it can be copied. There is no rocket science in this.
Where am I heading with this?
I want the studios to stay in business, so I can keep on buying their movies. I like buying their movies. They are damn good value for the money.
I think it will help studios to stay in business if they don't waste a lot of money on lawyers trying to do the impossible.
I think it will help studios to stay in business if they don't waste a lot of money on technical "solutions" that cannot work. Believe me, the IT industry is going to bend over backwards to try and sell you this crap. Some of our salesmen are very plausible. Don't even get me started on our corporate ethics.
Finally I think it will help studios to stay in business if they consider carefully the effect on their paying customers of any steps they might take to deter illegal copying. It is far easier to lose a customer than to deter a teenage hacker.
Thank you to everyone for the insightful comments. I am learning a lot. Believe me when I say I want as many people to see Platinum X product as possible. We will eventually create a paysite that makes it easy for people to get access to videos, pictures, and behind-the-scenes extras. Of course you cannot stop piracy in all its forms. That's not our goal. It is a far better use of time to provide customers with a better product. Thanks for the lesson in P2P file sharing. Brandon
What it all boils down to is if the shit is good enough, people will buy it. I want the original artwork and disc, as do a lot of other people. Some people will never buy anything yet download EVERYTHING. Other people download some stuff and then buy what they deem worthy of a purchase. Other people don't download anything (like me) and purchase only what they deem worthy after viewing them through rentals etc.
hi, it isn't legal, of course. I think there are other ways of thinking about this problem rather than just trying to stop illegal sharing or figuring how to sue them sucessfully etc. Think of someone buying a magazine and then 'sharing' when a friend comes over by showing the friend some of the pictures in the magazine. What happened there? did the magazine publisher lose a sale because the friend saw a few pictures without 'paying' for it? maybe or did the friend go out and buy the magazine because he wanted to 'own' those pictures for himself to look at when he has an urge to be aroused or whatever? maybe or did the friend like seeing the pictures in the magazine when he visited the friend, but had no intention of buying such a magazine for himself before or after he knew which pictures were in it? maybe just because you saw someone downloading versions of your material somewhere illegally, does not mean that you lost sales. It could actually mean you gain a few sales by people who did not know you existed previously, but saw an illegal copy and liked it enough to search you out and see what else you had for sale legitimately. maybe you got a new customer even though you did not actively advertise and 'pay' for typical advertising. a question is, are you losing more sales or gaining more sales by this illegal downloading? i don't know, but it is something to look at. my guess is that for a big studio, they are losing sales... because they are well-known already and no one 'discovers' the studio name by seeing an illegal download of any of their material...the user is simply avoiding buying it legitimately. but for a small studio, they will actually gain sales. there might be many users that do 'discover' the studio name by seeing an illegal download then seeking you out to buy legitimate copies since they know you exist. any lock can be picked. any security feature can be circumvented. criminals are clever and motivated. so i do not think any sort of technical solution will work to keep people from doing what they want. legal measures might work..but are messy, time consuming and expensive. evaluating how you can benefit from the current environment would be more beneficial to your bottom line, than simply trying to keep anyone anywhere from ever viewing something they did not buy the normal way etc.
What cack! The above is totally in error. First of all from a legal standpoint intellectual property is "tangible property and is always classified as such.
Why go into a convuluted attempt to parse tangible and intangible if you don't know the difference yourself?
Brandon Iron's reputation, goodwill etc are intangibles. Intellectual property is tangible property in every western country.
The question about what intellectual property owners and society should do about intellectual property theft. What legal means are reasonable and what are heavy handed, what technical means are reasonable and which are heavyhanded, and at what point losses are serious (for photgraphs file sharing technology pasted the efficiency long ago, and for sound it past a couple of years ago...for video it is almost pervasive) enough to consider how to balance protection vs reducing delivery costs anyway.
BUT, let's not confuse the debate over those developments with what is and what is not theft, what is or is not property, (or is or is not "tangible,") through rationalisations that have no basis in law (or fairness.) Those ratuionalisations are just that, biased points of view from people who never created tangible intellectual property but wish to enjoy others work and property without paying.
If the price is too high, don't buy...but don't steal it and then justify it.
