Do you think it is possible to have an intelligent conversation about porn? I think it is, but someone started a thread on a different, mainstream, and VERY BIG movie site on the subject, and it really just turned in to a lot of bashing and date rape jokes. So... does anyone here think it is possible, in all honesty, to have an intelligent conversation about porn? And if so, then start one. I don't know... just a thought... I'm in college, and I'm trying to make everything academic. Even porn.
No, BTDT. First most people won't admit that they watch porn. So it mostly ends with "all porn is cheap gonzo card" (of course they don't use the exact words, how would anyone be supposed to know there are different genres).
Then someone like me comes and tells them, they are [insert some creative flaming] since if they knew all porn they would have come across the likes of Blake, Ninn, Cognito et al. and they probably aren't able to find any good movie since most mainstream movies are also crap and therefore they should please stop violating the keyboard and [insert creative flame her].
Yes, but it depends on the members of the community. If you have a collection of people that don't watch it/are embarrassed by watching it, you'll never get an intelligent conversation going. If you have a collection of people who do watch it and aren't embarrassed by it you can. It all depends on the core group of members and their interests and maturity level.
Ruby, I think it's the format of message boards that makes it difficult to have a serious discussion about whatever. And I'm as guilty as any. Message boards are public, and anyone who creates an account can jump in, it's not a private conversation where you have unconsciously filtered the guests. Since there's none of the restraint that comes with a face-to-face conversation, it becomes very easy to derail. Plus we're talking entertainment issues, not politics, so the tone is bound to be lighter.
As for starting one, there have many intelligent conversations about pornography started in the Porn Pool, notably by Walter Burns or MLyons. I admit I usually stay away from these topics, because I'm not very articulate and they require too much film vocabulary as well as conversational skills. Since I still haven't understood the difference between a plot & a storyline, plus I'm not confident enough to disagree with specialists, I usually skip them.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Mar 31 2005 : 1:00PM
I used to, but not any more. It's easier to be cynical.
ultradamno said: "The problem with political parties is that their membership ranks are almost entirely comprised of people. No good can come from that..."
I think it's possible. There have been a number of good, more in depth and even sometimes "academic" discussions of porn on ADT over the years.
I think that you have to accept that they will be less participated in than the threads about the latest Jules Jordan title, but that's ok. Also, I think as a thread starter, you can enlist the help of the moderators to help you keep things on topic. All you need do is ask. We won't stifle opinions, but we'll try to keep the topic focused for you if you like, and try to keep it from degenerating into "personal taste" wars if need be.
Here are just a couple of threads that I remember as being particularly interesting in the past. This is just what I remember, and some of them were started by yours truly--so it's by no means a definitive list.
What's a Raincoater? Some good discussion here... especially near the end of the thread when discussion about "fan compassion" gets interesting. Reading it now, I think I was a bit more optimistic then than I am now. ::sigh::
Andrew Blake - Reactions...? Idiosyncratic it may be, but I found this to be a really interesting disussion, and I know others did as well. That thread helped introduce a couple people to Andrew Blake's work.
Beautiful Women Sharing Their Sexuality with Us Sometimes contentious, but always interesting. There are some great persepctives and counterpoint here that make all nine pages of this thread worth reading.
Porn's "Good Natured Contempt" for its Audience Another one I started that demonstrates my idiocy... but hey... it's a great discussion, and I started it to learn something from people who are smarter than I am.
Mir fällt es schwer, mich in einer Fremdsprache differenziert genug auszudrücken, um an einer solchen Diskussion teilnehmen zu können.
But the main reason in my opinion is the format of message boards just as Vodka Tonic pointed out.
BTW, all people like going to the movies. But have you ever tried to have an intelligent conversation about mainstream films? It's just as hard as about porn.
Interesting points. And the fact that most people can't even have an intelligent conversation about mainstream films is interesting as well. Yeah... I never really noticed that since the school I go to is an Arts School, heavy on the film and video (not a film and video major myself though).
Well, I'm off to start The Other Hollywood. (Stormy made the back cover!)
As Zartyr said, first you have to get them to admit that they actually watch it. Once you get past that barrier (face to face mainly, online it is much tougher in a forum type other than this) though the results can be interesting.
I once had a really interesting conversation at a party with a small group of people where the conversation ranged all over the porn map. Nothing earth shattering was discovered but it was an interesting hour in an otherwise boring office party.
Since all of my friends and family know what I do for a living, I have plenty of serious conversations about porn, I like to talk about my work as much as the next guy. And some of those conversations turned out very intelligent and interesting (and some others ended up being just plain silly), so yes, I think it's no problem in real life and on a messageboard (despite the inherent difficulties of online conversations) it's possible too IMO.
Has anyone here checked out the book The Other Hollywood yet? It's pretty interesting. Lots of interviews (since the whole book is a compiled oral history) with very interesting people. From Roger Ebert to John Stagliano.
I'm reading this at the moment and really enjoying it. I had some initial concerns about the format but it's actually very well assembled. The book contains a wealth of anecdotes and is a rare opportunity to hear some key figures from the early days express themselves.
You might also like Pornocopia by Laurence O'Toole.
Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 2 2005 : 8:33AM
In my college days I had numerous conversations after a few pints of beer with my fellow students (philosophy, history and law students) about porn, as well as about sex in general in society. We all thought these conversations were quite intelligent. In fact, some of these conversations led to doctoral theses on the subject!
I therefore agree that it all depends on the people involved (and the amount of alcohol consumed).
It's tough, but it's possible. First, you gotta find intelligent people. Second, you gotta find intelligent people who watch porn. Third, you have to find intelligent people who watch porn and aren't scared to admit it. The last part is probably the hardest, because it seems like a lot of dumb people are more eager to admit their porn habit than intelligent people.
My flatmate and I decided to stop hiding our porn a few years back, as some of it was lying around anyway. I've had some nice porn discussions with him since then.
I also think that this forum is pretty good. There are the usual dumbasses and occasional trollers, but the moderators do a good job at keeping most of them away. As pointed out above, there are some nice discussions. Sometimes you have to ignore one or two posts, but still...
Not only do you have to find intelligent people who will admit to watching porn, but who are also willing to expose their sexual preferences; because that's what's going to happen. Some men are happy saying: "she's hot, I'll screw her" but would balk at saying: "she's hot, I'd like to give her a good anal!" You can find a lot out about a person by talking porn.
Actually, most porn conversations I've had have moved in to sexual preference discussions. That is, unless it's about feminism and porn, porn history, or the effects of pornography on society. I actually did a paper on historical porn films and novels... and got an A!
The problem is starting a porn conversation in the first place. In some instances a conversation just drifted in that direction, but then the person gave me an odd look so I quickly changed the subject. Of course if the person's apartment is littered with porn tapes you know you're pretty safe.
Some of the reactions I've got have surprised me: people who I thought were quite sexually open have quickly clammed up, while others I thought repressed have admitted to the most outrageous things. You just never know. Talking sexual preferrences with a member of the opposite sex can be better fun than watching a porn movie.
Long and Cursive road to the Ivory Pagoda in the province of Loraine 4076 Posts 12/03
Posted - Apr 3 2005 : 5:43PM
+1 for the paper. Maybe Sunchen can get some inspiration.
I agree with DeeDee about trying to find those three things to even begin a dialogue. I would like to add one thing as well.
Where I live, sexuality is just not discussed at all, its not considered subject matter for polite company. Mostly based from religious reasons. That is not to say that sex isn't the main source of entertainment here tho, i.e. who is sleeping with who. The exploration of sexuality thru porn or any other means isn't pursued.
The message board is the only place where I can discuss these things at all, much less do it without a snicker or a horrified look on faces. I get funny looks sometimes with my Playboy Radio sticker on my truck. Of course, those may not be sticker related....
I am reminded of a line from Air America, "I was used to being the craziest man in the room, now I'm not even in the running." There will always be trolls in threads, well not always, but most of the time. You just have to remove the chaff from the wheat.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Apr 3 2005 : 6:13PM
Too many opinions, not nearly enough knowledge. A typical problem within humanities, otherwise known as Interpretation Inc. And that goes double for any discussion on (moving) images. And that in turn goes double for (moving) pornographic images.
Eric Lowery said: "Is it OK to be in love with a girl you don't know?"
It is possible but in order to do so people have to be willing to admit that they might be wrong (even the porn fans) so there will always be issues with trying to find a group capable of having such a discussion where they just don't automatically dismiss the other person's opinions as unimportant.
Even here you will a lot of resistance to statements that don't agree with the "majority" opinion. Just ask DB about the whole "facial cumshot" debate.
Personally I would welcome such a debate. I find them very enlightening.
The highway is alive tonight But nobody's kiddin' nobody about where it goes I'm sittin' down here in the campfire light Searchin' for the ghost of Tom Joad
