At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 6:22PM
The following popular stars did IR in the first half of the '90's or prior. (The list does not include the multitude of top stars who only did Billy Dee or Jake Steed. If it did, there would be very few that don't make the list!) Starting in the late 90's there was a porn "counter-culture" period that began in which the top stars (at least in their prime) were expected to be 100% IR-free. We are still living in that period despite rebels like Tori Black and Sasha Grey. The counter-culture may be petering out. I have theories about its origins. Ginger Lynn, Amber Lynn, Juli Ashton, Sunset Thomas, Kim Alexis, Brandi Wine, Megan Leigh, Debi Diamond, Fallon, Selena Steele, Barbi Dahl, Frankie Leigh, Stephanie Rage, Kylie Ireland, Dana Lynn, Alexa Parks, Tami Monroe, Jeanna Fine, Nici Sterling, Tami White (Ariel Knight),Nina Hartley, Cara Lott, Britt Morgan, Sharon Kane, Nikki Knight, Siobhan Hunter, Rachel Ryan, Ashlyn Gere, Buffy Davis, Tiffany Storm, Tanya Foxx, Stacy Nichols, Dana Dylan, Ona Zee, Keli Richards,Lois Ayres, Melanie Moore, Brittany O'connell, Catherine Kelly, Jalynn, Micky Lynn, Cherry Mirage, Victoria Paris, Lisa Deleeuw,Shannah McCullough, Tricia Devereaux, Madison, Crystal Wilder, Sarah Jane Hamilton, Teri Diver, Letha Weapons, Christi Lake, Tiffany Mynx, Flame, Lacy Rose, Tracey Adams, Sarah Young, Lynn LeMay, Kimberly Kane, Serena, Kristara Barrington, Renee Summers, Kym Wilde, Tianna, Angela Baron, Mandi Wine, Bionca, Dyanna Lauren, Tammi Ann, Tara Monroe, Tiffany Million,Heather Hart, Erica Boyer, Chessie Moore, Kimberly Kupps, Mimi Miyagi, Heather Lee, Lili Xene, Connie Peterson, Leena,Sally Layd, Anna Malle, Leslie Bovee, Anette Haven, Linda Wong, Annie Sprinkles,Vanessa Chase, Gail Force, Dusty (Dusty Rose),April Rayne, Deidre Holland, Marilyn Rose, Jacqueline, Natasha Skylar, Cheri Taylor, Alexandra Quinn, Viper, Angela D'Angelo, Moana Pozzi, Cicciolina, Suzanne St. Lorraine, Jacqueline Lorians, Sharon Mitchell, Tamara Lee, Taija Rae, Alex Storm, Raven, Sunny McKay, Rebecca Steele, Brittany Stryker, Nikki Randall, Ashley Nicole, Danielle Rogers, Tianna Taylor, Aja, Holly Ryder, Kitten Natividad, Kimberly Dawn, Misty Regan, Barbarella, Janey Robbins, Sharon Mitchell, Summer Rose, Patti Petite, Desiree Cousteau, Laurel Canyon, Susan Nero, Candida Royale, Gail Sterling, Lili Marlene, Athena Star,Keisha, Sierra, Mona Lisa, Trixie Tyler, Teri Wiegel, Jade East, Angella Faith, Devon Shire, Jordan Lee, Rosemarie, Francesca Le, Alicia Rio, Alex Jordan, Pat Manning, Rachel Ashley, Lorie Lovett, Bianca Trump, Kitty Shayne, Krista Lane, Chrystal Lake (not to be confused with Christi Lake who is also on the list) Stacey Donovan, Sheri St. Claire, Aunt Peg, Patricia Kennedy, Mimi Morgan, Elle Rio, Rebecca Bardoux, Careena Collins,Marilyn Chambers, Krysti Lynn, Rhonda Jo Petty, Porsche Lynn, Roxanne Hall, Sasha, Rebecca Lord, Jeanne Afrique, Candy Apples, Andrea Briitian, Renee Morgan, Darby Lloyd Rains, Abigail Clayton, Laura Lazaar, DJ Cone, Nicole London, Sharon Thorpe, Chanel Price, Brigitte Maeir, Stephany Swift, Sally Layd, Missy
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 6:26PM
Here is my theory about the counter-culture. Back in the 80's and prior, porn had more of a stigma. The only places where the stigma was not as strong was in the big cities. LA, New York, Chicago. So porn was a big city thing and had a big city attitude. Part of the big city attitude is progressivism and rebellion against taboos along with the 'free love' trend from the 60's that was still influencing things. That's not to say that small town America wasn't watching porn, but small town American had little influence on porn. 'Bible belt' places like Atlanta didn't even have a lot of strip clubs. Later on, when the stigma on porn lessened in rural America and the Bible belt (a time that coincided with the internet and the Jenna Jameson revolution), there may have been an influx of small town attitudes into porn. And by "Jenna Jameson Revolution", I mean the fact that her mega-success was often associated with not doing any IR. American Porn somehow started to cater more to a small town audience. It translated itself into a counter tide and backlash against IR.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 6:35PM
I agree with your theory actually, although I don't think it has been as prominent as you suggest, at least recently as most of the top gonzo girls did or do scenes with black men: Gianna, Sasha, etc. The Queen though has to be Marilyn Chambers who set the pace with her classic scenes with Johnnie Keyes. Annette Haven and Leslie Bovee also deserve a second shout out for their great and memorable scenes.
Johnnie Keyes definitely set the standard for black porn studs breaking into mainstream porn followed by King Paul, FM Bradley, Ray Victory, Robbie Dee and the Mack Daddy himself, Sean Michaels.
Before Jenna there was a mega star who died very young at 23 it was Savannah and she was not doing any IR either she was adamant on this , other superstars of porn such as Raquel Darrian never did an IR . What you said might not be dependant on Jenna there were actually many stars who didn't do any IR , maybe I'm wrong but I can't remember any IR of Paula Price for example consider that all those mentioned by the OP are a bunch among dozen thousands who did porn in the last 40 years. what really changed thing maybe was the eastern revolution all those eurobabes who gave a fuck of all the racism and prejudice and has no problem at all on doing IR ,almost all eurostars were already doing IR without any problem , think about British Roxanne Hall, Layla Jade, Sabrina Johnson for example. IR was already relatively common in Europe in mid eighty Cicciolina non only did a lot of IR but also got gangbanged by blacks some times and the same did Moana Pozzi , there were blacks working with Rocco since the beginning of his career as a director , from Franco (Teo) Roccaforte , to Omar Williams, to Kid Jamaica and others , also he used them not simply as Blacks vs whites in a racial meaning they were there simply fucking with girls with no word at all to the fact that they were black , with very few exception based on the plot. A superstar like Silvia Saint not only did lots of IR but also formed a couple with Mr Marcus in their personal life for a while Should be also considered that an icon like Nina Hartley was doing IR since the beginning of her career and never stopped. BTW Laurie Cameron is not in your list I think that a mention of honor should be given to Chloe Nichole when there were lots of girls who didn't IR and it was still an issue she begun to get gangbanged by blacks in fact she starred in the very first scene of the Gangland series Cicciolina did a movie called "Banana al Cioccolato" (Banana with Chocolate)which was entirely focused on her doing black guys in every way Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 8/11/2011 5:06:56 AM
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233 Posts 9/08
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 11:58AM
God bless Cicciolina. I loved that girl. She still alive today?
This is one of those threads that is eventually gonna rub some people the wrong way, just warning you. I don't know. There are some who suggest the phenomenon started happening way before Jenna Jameson. The star treatment had been in effect way before her time, although on a smaller scale. And some women had reportedly already started voicing their opinion and option against doing IR years before, seemingly opening a flood-gate. Companies clearly started noticing, and started acting inappopriately when it came to hiring on either sides. The bottom line seemed to back it up, and it just grew more and more. A few black males objected and rebelled, namely one Sean Michaels, and had to circumvent the system by going outside or around it, eventually allowing the likes of Jake Steed, Lexington Steele, Jules Jordan, Mr. Marcus, and Justin Slayer to completely kick-the-door-down and bum-rush the stage, hopefully forever. The tide has clearly changed, although some things persist, especially on the black female side.
Yes she is I've even met her in Rome at a Police Station in which she was for issues with her ex husban Jeff Koonts and their son , it was some years ago, she was aged but still attractive
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 7:34AM
My only point is that this current era is marked by a pronounced expectation that top stars be 100% IR Free and that IR should be the purview of more minor stars. Such a pronounced expectation wasn't there in the old days. Edited by - ControlFreak on 8/12/2011 7:35:16 AM Edited by - ControlFreak on 8/12/2011 7:36:46 AM
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 7:34AM
My only point is that this current era is marked by a pronounced expectation that top stars be 100% IR Free and that IR should be the purview of more minor stars. Such a pronounced expectation wasn't there in the old days. Edited by - ControlFreak on 8/12/2011 7:36:16 AM
I think they are almost forced to and is not by expectation there are lots and lots of discussion in forums everywhere in which there are people verifing every day who does IR and who don't and those are attacked in any matter known until they do , the actual difference is that those who like aren't forced to the opposite and can do it freely
I meant that many stars are actually forced to do IR even when they don't want or don't like to , if they don't there's plenty of guys shouting in every forum blog , or whatever that they are racist o worse (as if does mean anything , Jane Darling is a NAZI and wrote all sort of thing against blacks or any other race but white north European, this didn't stop her to do plenty of IR and even to enjoy it) This guys attack all performers who don't do IR or simply didn't do so far , with insults and other things (one of them on thi very forum answered to me about all whites being no man and that we all wanted blacks to fuck our wifes because they are true man and we are not , a post extremely racist in my view I decided to not reply or we both would be banned) such people actually force a star , thus she did IR not because is expected but because she cant afford this kind of fame it could affect her career , in addition IR is one of the few thing selling well so is maybe one of the little amount of work available The good thing is that whereas in the past a star who liked IR might decide not to do it to save her career (or she thought so which is the same thing) These days she can do it without concern actually can even say she prefer blacks in her personal sexual life and get a black companion and some did. Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 8/12/2011 8:49:03 AM
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 8:55AM
^^^^^^ You are confused. You are not on point, You are in reverse. In this current era there is an expectation to be like Jenna Jameson, Jesse Jane, Devon, et al and not to do IR if you are a top star. The movie Pirates is the symbol of this current era. And agents like Derek Hay are aggressive at pressuring attractive newbies not to do IR. IR is expected to be the purview of minor stars and general stars who are passed their prime. This wasn't the case in the old days. Edited by - ControlFreak on 8/12/2011 9:00:46 AM
I have a different perception who are the current top stars? Bobbi Starr, Tori Black , Bree Olson , Sasha Grey I might add Belladonna, Savanna Samson not to mention Nina Hartley which is well known and did IR since her beginning or Silvia Saint back then , they not seem to have been affected by doing IR , on the contrary I've personally witnessed on this very board countless and senseless attacks to stars who were not doing IR ,also I suspect that many things aren't in the hand of the stars , for example Sophia Santi while was on Digital Playground did only 2 IR and they were lez ,after she left DP she signed a contract with JUSTIN SLAYER and her very first film as a director and main performer is completely focused on IR , maybe in the past it wasn't her choice as soon as she had the chance she did Actually today it is expected that sooner or later a star will do interracial , and I'm guessing it would be first thing in the morning the day Jesse Jane will be contract free Also I don't think the eighy were free happy times , Sean Michaels had to go to Europe to work and he always spoke about the racism in american porn
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 10:07AM
1)I mentioned Tori Black and Sasha Grey and I already said this era is petering out. Go back in time a little before Tori Black and Sasha Grey and this era was at its peak. 2) Your comment about girls being attacked by IR fans for not doing IR is still not on point. This is a "big picture" thread that is talking about eras in porn. 3) Jesse Jane doing IR as soon as she is contract free supports my point. And its another case of a big star doing it when she is past her prime. 4)At no point did I say the '80's were happy times nor does it have anything to do with this thread. I said the '80's was an era where the big cities had all the say in porn. It was an era marked by no specific expectation that big stars stay away from IR. Ginger Lynn in 1984 was 21 and the #1 star in porn and did IR. Edited by - ControlFreak on 8/12/2011 10:08:26 AM Edited by - ControlFreak on 8/12/2011 10:14:56 AM
As far as I know at the era of Ginger Lynn she was a big name but not the biggest there were already Savannah and Raquel Darrian and possibly Paula Price , none of them did any IR , those who did were really a little bush in a plain full of grass and I didn't mentioned Traci Lords who really was the biggest among all of them , OK she was underage but back then nobody knew and she didn't any IR , even anals were an issue ad that time I really don't understand what was this era of easy IR There was Seka who did indeed two IR but at the very end of her career. And about Jesse Jane she is still in her prime it is her choice to leave Digital Playground to the point that they are even casting a substitute which will use the name Jesse Jane which is a DP trade mark so that they think they can still use her name to sell there have never been an era in which so many stars do IR like today , but not only they do IR they even do it in derogatory manners with black guys trashing white girl and mocking white boys take a look to the preview of the lates scene at Black on Blondes the girl even wears a collar and drink cum from a dog bowl All of this was unthinkable in any era before today not even a part of this would've been depicted before
In the old days, there weren't many true star players on the female side, since contract players didn't really exist, and there certainly weren't as many people of color as involved as there has been in the past decade. Porn wasn't nearly as widespread or as lucrative either, since it's legal status was still in question and it's ability to create revenue still limited. I think money changed many perspectives as much as anything, and certainly created more than it's fair share of divas who lacked much tolerance. I think the dynamics started to change by around the year 2000. The star system, and it's influence, was clearly still there, but it's true influence was waning. The true stars of the past decade have been dominated by women more than willing to at least try and then repeatedly do IR. I actually don't even think it's even close. Some of the top companies just refused to admit or acknowledge it.
^ Ginger Lynn begun the very same year of Traci Lords in 1984 , Traci was bigger than anyone else back then until she was discovered underage in late 1987 at that point the other came to porn Raquel, Paula and then Savannah and in the eighty was Seka who begun in 1976 and ended in 1993 which didn't any IR for the whole eighties the two she did were late in her career and one of them even published after her retirement , there's still people who think she didn't IR at all. Seka man one of the biggest ever.Besides we're talking about an era that in my opinion never existed , also even if Ginger was the biggest it is still pointless she was ONE along with very few among hundreds who didn't any IR at all. Look at the list in the OP how many stars are there? How many stars passed through porn in the three decades examined? Hundreds? Thousands? I believe in the order of the thousands Look how few did IR in that era
Ginger Lynn in IR HOF? Nah. She did one maybe two IR scenes I think. One was with Tony E-Lay. I think she did another that was just a magazine shoot. Then when she got much older and no longer contract girl material she did bunch of IR scenes .. good scenes but ... I would not put her in my IR HOF. IMHO to be nominated for IR HOF you would have to be performer who did a *LOT* of good IR scenes or specialized in it. Big stars who did a couple IR scenes don't impress me. I might nominate stars who did some really standout classic IR scenes (e.g. Marilyn Chambers and Juliet Anderson with Johnny Keyes). For 70s IR HOF I would nominate Marilyn Chambers, Connie Peterson, Sue Nero, Juliet "Aunt Peg" Anderson, and Desiree West. For 80's IR HOF I would nominate Aja, Amber Lynn, Buffy Davis, Chanel Price, Elle Rio, Jeanna Fine, Jeannie Pepper, Ebony Ayes, Lauryl Canyon, Lois Ayers, Nina Hartley, Nina DePonca, Purple Passion, Ona Zee, Tanya Foxx, Tiffany Storm, Dana Lynn, Kassi Nova, Angel Kelly, and of course Rachel Ryan. For 90s IR HOF I would nominated Jeanna Fine (again), Victoria Paris, Bridgette Kerkove, Candy Apples, Dominique Simone, Heather Hunter, Cumisha, Inari Vachs, Kimberly Kummings, Lana Sands, Mila, Missy, Nina Hartley (again), Porsche Lynn, Sierra, Tianna, Tiffany Mynx, Alana Evans, Golden Jade, Jessica Dee, Krysti Lynn, Sahara Sands, Sylvia Saint, Tricia Devereaux. I may have missed a couple but this is a solid list.
^you missed Chloe Nichole which did PLENTY IR Anyway I add a name , how many of you guys know about Blazer? She was blonde blue-eyed a pornstar who worked maybe a couple year in early two thousands she did 13 or maybe 15 movies all but three are listed as IR but two of the others are compilations in which she actually did IR either , she did only ONE movie non IR Nobody gave a fuck to her preferences or attitudes , even those eager for IR don't know of her , she might not have been an awesome beauty but man she was certainly into it
Desiree Cousteau did a ir/anal with a black dude,Jonathon Younger,very hard to find,made in the 70's.Buffy Davis did several ir,with dp in her career,best one was the Caught from Behind series
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 16 2011 : 11:23AM
Doing one scene is absolutely not pointless. The point of the thread, as I have repeatedly stated and will not state again, is not undermined in any way by the top star doing 1 IR in 1984. Also, the fact that many minor stars did no IR does nothing to undermine my point.
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 16 2011 : 11:30AM
Traci is debatable but she did have about 30 less releases in the period 1984-1987 than Ginger Lynn, so as well known as she was, Ginger was probably more well known. And then there was a spike in Traci's popularity when it the story of her forced retirement was talked about all over the country. Edited by - ControlFreak on 8/16/2011 11:32:41 AM
I agree and disagree with this. I do think that has and does happen, but I still think that was/is more a company practice than a general starlet one. I still don't think it's a coincident that a lot of first time contract players somehow aren't into IR and yet get hired often. And I don't think it's a coincident that starlets who had done some IR, suddenly didn't once contracted. Not sure when starlets are generally past their prime, but the immediate wllingness to do IR shortly after their contract expires, says a lot more about the companies they were with than the starlets themselves. Edited by - aplus on 8/16/2011 2:23:01 PM
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Aug 17 2011 : 1:51PM
I'm not suggesting that its the starlet herself. I'm saying that it's a hallmark of the era to have rampant contracts that forbid IR early in a girlz career.
Despite rebels like Tori Black & Sasha Grey? Are you kidding? The list of women that do IR scenes is outstanding. Just about every movie that comes out is a IR or a MILF movie. We must not be shopping in the same stores.
I think you misunderstood what he was saying or didn't see some of his later posts on it. Not that I need to speak for him, since ControlFreak can obviously speak for himself. If things seems truly changed, it's because the contract system has all but died-out. Not sure how MILF titles apply here, but I'll agree the market is more flooded with IR titles. Still I'm not seeing much diversity in the occasional feature released today, and certainly not much diversity in the tons of parodies being released every other day. And I'm certainly not seeing a lot of black women in much of anything beyond black-on-black films. IR still tends to get treated as a specialized niche or special event. Things are clearly better than they were 15 years ago though. Small steps!
Gravity as Curved Space: Bootymeister's Theory of General Relativity 1589 Posts 11/08
Posted - Sep 5 2011 : 10:48AM
There is no "counter culture" now. There are weirdo porn fans who make a big deal of certain racial combinations. Almost all porn stars do IR. Some porn stars make IR choices for marketing purposes, including delays in doing scenes with porn actors of certain racial categories because of the weirdo markets.
IR top 10? Looks more like black female pornstars top 10 of the 80s. Most of them are on my IR HOF list though. BTW Heather Hunter shot almost all her movies during the 90s. I'd consider her as a 90s star instead of 80s. Nice flash from the past though. Jeannie Pepper still looks great. I don't know why she isn't doing MILF movies. I saw interview with her in Sex And The Studio 2 and she looked like she was still in the adult biz.
Not to mention some performers can simply prefer not to do IR and NOT be racist. People have their preferences. I don't care much for redheads and really pale skin that those women typically have. :)
Jenna Jameson did a G/G Interracial Scene with Anna Amore and she has done a 2 othe scenes with Black Female Porn Actresses in ''Where the Boys Arent Series.
Since I find IR porn fascinating, I found this thread interesting reading. Thanks to all posters for their contributions Whether performers decide to do "inter-racial" or not boils down to a political decision. The taboo nature of porn means there is probably more money in going inter-racial (for "show value"). I'm not sure IR sex has any real "controversy" value these days, but that's thanks to trail blazers like Juliet Anderson (Aunt Peg) and Desiree Cousteau who appeared in sexy IR films when the industry was, more or less, still "underground". "Aunt Peg" (Juliet Anderson RIP 2010) Desiree Cousteau: Underrated Sexpot Nice to see "La Cicciolina" get a mention (real name Ilona Staller) as she's notable for being a hard gangbanger with a brain ticking (very rare in the porn world!). She managed to forge a mainstream career (another rarity).
Cicciolina: Banana Al Cioccolata 1987 (Very rare VHS title "Bananas & Chocolate") For Pentasa: "God bless Cicciolina. I loved that girl. She still alive today?" AFDB doesn't list anything for her after 2001 (although those lists are not always current). I do know she is now in her 60s! (born 1951) so it's likely she's retired, although you never know with Cicciolina! I'm surprised Annabel Chong and Ebony Monique don't get mentioned, as both did extensive hard IR gangbanging. Angel Love is also worth a mention due to her many IR scenes. "Ebony" Monique: Pure Sex-On-Legs Heather Hunter, Lady Steph, Sahara and Purple Passion complete my list. Kind Regards, NB
Cicciolina is still alive and kicking and retired long ago in early nineties I believe, she pursued a political career and stopped performing after her marriage and the birth of her child , I even met her in a police station in Rome where she lives , at the time of her divorce and the kidnapping of her baby by Jeff Koonts her ex-husband , she was talking only about her baby had lots and lots of photos of every kind.I was there to fill a claim myself and was in awe she was a fine woman , very different from her public image. There's a reprint of her works every now and then. She did plenty of IR , she has a photograph issue with the adventures of her some kind of a private eye her costar was Marilyn Jess under the stage name of Platinette, they were published as spplumental issue in the Supersex magazine which may deserve a topic on his own. Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 2/21/2012 4:23:07 PM
Thanks (again) LCF "I even met [Cicciolina] in a police station in Rome where she lives..." I wish I had such an exciting life! But yes, in porn terms Cicciolina ranks as one of the most interesting pornstars of all time. (Well worth investigating... for the connoisseur). I haven't seen much of her work, although the little I did see confirms she was a smokin' hot, cum-pumping blonde fireball. Sad to hear she faced such a desperate situation with her child... Did that have a happy ending? Anyway, I managed to trace the mag issue mentioned. So, for all Cicciolina fans out there (and I'm sure there's a few) here is the cover of Supersex Mag 157. Enjoy! Kind Regards, NB
^ The story ended well ,she obtained her boy back (actually came to the USA and kidnapped him herself returning back to Italy) her boy should be of legal age now , since she was a former congresslady in Italian parliament she got an hi level protection program by Italian authorities including intelligence. Jeff Koonts couldn't have any chance to get near that baby again. American authorities were pissed but gave up, after all it was him who first kidnapped the son of a congresslady , and USA authorities were aware that no Country would allow anyone to harm any their representatives even if it is a porn performer.I believe that American or British authorities would do the same. Also , back then Italy was strongly sided with the USA and was involved with means and troops in some scenarios , from Desert Storm to Restore Hope to the war in Kosovo and was providing basis and military support for American troops , aircrafts and Navy. That wasn't the best moment to create an incident with an Allied
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 2/25/2012 9:53:20 AM
At the end of the day, it is what it is. 629 Posts 12/09
Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 2:52AM
I don't see the relevance to the OP, perhaps this is in response to some other poster. But now that you mention it, I'm waiting for the first porn star to have "anything but redheads" on his or her dance card. If you want to make a comparison, how about comparing it to something that actually exists in porn. BTW, a race of people has more range of coloring than redheads...particularly people who are considered black. Edited by - ControlFreak on 2/26/2012 2:56:42 AM