I agree with the guys talking too much. Like they're gonna talk the girl into enjoying it.
Also agree about the extremely long scenes. I know some guys like to see like 20 position changes, but the more changes they make, the longer the scene is gonna be. How about giving me more bang for my buck. Instead of (4) 30 minute scenes, how about (5) 25 minute scenes, or better yet, how about (6) 20 minute scenes. Those extremely long scenes are starting to fill like filler, and I'm starting to feel like I'm being cheated.
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Mienhagen aka Shameless deactivated again
Europe 696 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 8 2005 : 7:21AM
I am picking out a few "irritations" here which dont bother me or I´d prefer even more, just to show how diverse the views are. But also to make it easier to single out what really bothers a great majority of us ADT-talkers:
Directors instructing the girls during the scenes: can be another thrill. It also shows clearly how it is all staged. I dont want this always, but I find it interesting once in a while. I usually like JYL instructing his girls.
Shoes: I prefer them on always . I dont rent/buy barefoot girl only dvds.
Old guys fucking young girls: Dont mind. I am well over 30, so this just fits my phantasy.
On the contrary what I really do mind is the fuckers talking too much and too loud, even grunting, and also them beating it off too long. Common, if you cant pop to a beautiful porn girl instantly, you may better look for another job!
Cloths on: Cloths highlight a girls beauty. Not taking them off often just shows how randy those fuckers were not even undressing the girl first. I prefer all girls with at least some cloths on, but not obstructing too much view to the goodies.
I fully agree however with that ugly zoom shots to the actors face, especially just before he is about to shoot it off (=a garanteed wood killer, IMO) and artsy arrangement/effects costing more than the actors/actresses fees. Throw in a few more studs, offer the girls more to sacrifice their pooper finally or buy more dps/daps, instead!
Use of couches: Is about as boring as the use of beds. I fuck on both of them in private life, from porn I expect something less common.Pierced tongues: I like all piercings. Clit over tongue over nipples over ears. Its all sexy!
Cum-shot to wrong girl: I usually avoid g/g/b, but I do agree that the most beautiful girl should be decorated with cum as this just enhaces her beauty even more. But we all know that the aiming of most porn studs leaves a lot to be desired.
I fully agree also with music overdubbing sex noises and with bad tanning. Girls showing their body in porn should frequent the solarium or stay out of the sun. Or at least cover untanned parts with cloths. Also please no g/g in b/g-movies!!!!
I prefer the girl undressing herself in a little tease, this should make the guys even more hungry.
I like long scenes, when they're good. Shorter scenes would probably be filled with cuts instead, and I hate cuts. Especially cuts to when the dick is already working, I want to see the penetration!
* Too many close ups and angels where the womens face isn't visible. I like to see the girls reaction, I hate when a girl seems to be coming and the camera doesn't capture those beautiful glazed eyes.
* Guys who look too good, too vain. You're not a model, you're just the fucker and your job is to fuck good, women are more physical than visual. Let the sissies do gay please.
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Mienhagen aka Shameless deactivated again
Europe 696 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 8 2005 : 7:58AM
...and now finally m_burlock:Exactly! How is this possible at all! How comes they are booked even again????Chests/tits: Flat chested girls can be sexy, too, IMO. But boob jobs are the only solution for too saggy tits. However, they should be good or the girl better quits.
- fat etc guys/hairy butt: I bloke the studs completely out except for the penetrating cock attached to them. It needs some mental traing, but it works, IMO.
- pale vs tanned: Think of Aurora Snow or some of those asian porn girls. I would want to miss them! For a stud all that counts is his ability to keep wood and shoot a good load. And have the female performers like to work with him.
BUT I fully agree with weak cum-shots. How about making a stud liable for his cum-shot, throw a dribble only finished scene in the bin and make him pay for all the wasted female talent, localisation rent money, make-up etc.? This would finally do away with this plague!
Same about hairy pussies: Shave them or stay away from performing in non-fetish porn, I´d say.
I'm gonna have to seriously disagree with making the studs pay for their "weak" cumshots. I don't think cumshots are as important as others. My ultimate focus is always gonna be on the female. I also realize that most guys just can't shoot like a Peter North or Lex Steele, and even the ones who can, usually can't do it all the time. And I also can't agree with messing with someone's money. If a director, producer, or the female don't like how the guy sprays, don't hire or work with him again.
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pigsticker Deactivated User
27 Posts 6/05
Posted - Jun 8 2005 : 3:01PM
Are there really guys who fantasize about cumshots?
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Ejac Deactivated User
851 Posts 9/04
Posted - Jun 8 2005 : 3:20PM
Why not? It's all aboutthe fantasy!
The girl has to be hot. But if she's going through all the motions just to get a tinkl;e of a cum shot, what's the point in watching?
I understand this thread and even participated in it, but honestly, how many porn directors actually care what fans think?... A handful at best. Most of them listen to sales. As long as people are buying the movies if doesn't matter what we complain about. The big problem with directors are that most of them are peformers too.
Alot of them don't understand the technical aspects of being behind the camera anyway. That's why you contantly see problems with camera angles, lighting, sound issues, ect. Honestly, how many directors have formal training or previous experience behind a camera? The proof is right there for all of us to see. That's why most porn looks the same.
The only way to really influence directors is with your money, but since most viewers are addicted to porn at some level, that's never going to happen. The fact is, they'll keep cranking out the same stuff most of us complain about, and most of us will continue to buy it and complain about it...
I can only speak for myself of course but I do care very much about the job I do however as you have seen on this board, indeed in this very thread, there are SO many different opinions of what constitutes good and bad pornography that one would go insane attempting to appeal to them all. In the end, all you can do is shoot what you like. As far as talent becoming directors, it's true that many of them don't know the model number of the camera they use but in many cases they are able to capture something that technical shooters like myself cannot. While I pull my hair out over bad lighting situations and depth of field issues, these guys are zooming in on prolapsed colons with all the curiosity of a Discovery channel crew. I think what makes Gonzo "gonzo" is the lack of refinement and disregard for technical purity. Granted, sometimes Most of the skilled videographers are working on features for Vivid and Wicked which are both widely loathed on these boards so I guess it's a toss-up ; Ultra-hardcore with hard shadows and auto-focus issues or techincal proficiency with vanilla sex and pointless dialogue.
Did you ever see Rocco with his gyno-cam? I swear, it delivered close-ups that looked like some giant earthworm out of {I}Dune . Really unnecessary.
I actually loved this POV stuff Steve Holmes shot recently because he was only able to get the girl's face in the camera -- it was too difficult to catch much of the penetration. Really hot. And shaky, loose focus, etc. But that made it look real, and the energy was fresh and exciting (the girl was awkward and reluctant, never been in front of a camera, scared to death of steve's cock, ready to bolt, yet he keeps convincing her to keep going, and she comes like a gusher. Kind of twisted scene, really pushed my buttons).
As a huge fan of John Stagliano, I'm gonna have to disagree with you Quaserman. Most of these so-called gonzo directors out there are butchering his style. If you really watch John's work, you'll see that he puts a lot of work into what he does. He just makes it looks easy. Not only that, John always hired women who really enjoyed having sex. Unlike a lot of the directors today, John doesn't just hire any girl that looks good, has a big ass, or takes 2 dicks in the ass. John always hired girls that simply like to bone first, thats why his scenes always have true "heat" in them, as opposed to mere extreme acts, which gonzo is becoming IMO. I don't think Gonzo was ever supposed to be the point-and-shoot crap its slowly turning into.
There's a reason why Stagliano is one of the wealthiest humans on earth and there's also a reason why Evil's product sells for much more than everyone else's. My comments were meant in a general sense. I don't think that any of us here would disagree about the fact that John has a perfectly perverse mind and has brought us some of the best porn in history. Having said that, his work is not "technically correct" (excluding Fashionistas) a lot of the time. This matters not because he brings so much more to the table.
I love it when actual directors and performers take the time to respond to threads concerning customer service. We may not all agree about what makes a well directed movie, but it's honorable to know some people care about the people who will potentially buy their product.
+1 Quaze
-PornoPunK
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Mienhagen aka Shameless deactivated again
Europe 696 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 9 2005 : 2:18AM
True, but I think it is obvious that at least 90% of porn fans complain about zooming the studs head just before he delivers, studs wanking too long to shoot and studs making more noise than the girls, still in 90% of all dvds we exactly get these three no-nos.
I have several irritations that I like to detail out here:
1. Cuts in the arrousal segment where the gal has clothes and then cut directly into sex without the stripping or showing how she took it off! A big turn off! Don't present the sensuality of the gal at all! How hot is she? Unknown????
2. Close up on the ass and fucking and showing it like for 10 minutes straight while the gal is faceless and can only hear her. Her body is not shown in detail like her face and neck and body and legs; just the close up on the act!
3. Closes up on the fingering and eating out but not of the arousal of the gal receiving it unless in like 2 seconds and goes back to 6 minute close up of the oral and then another 2 seconds of the gal and back again for the close up of the act!
4. No real love making like kissing or petting at all! Just the act and then the cumm... After seeing like 2 DVDs of this stuff; becomes very boring!
5. Don't provide the name of the lad(ies) in the segment at all; no idea who she is?
6. Long drawn out segment that has a lot of broken scenes that just don't look right; especially when the guy has been hammering the gal for like 15 minutes and changes positions and his penis is limp!
7. Poor lighting and shadows in the picture; camera moves around and misses the best action and shot the guy feeling the gal out with his hand for like 2 minutes straight and the gal is cumming but still on the hand of the guy.
There are alot of other irratations but theses are the ones that come to mind now!
I'm happy you liked it. I guess you talk about the bonus footage of Anal Cum Addicts (review). I shot it extremely cheap. No make-up artist, no special locations, no lights. I also don't stick to the POV standard. Sometimes I turn the camera back or put it on the table but it is fun.
I'm not necessarily sure what you mean by "technically" Quaze, but I'll take your word for it since its what you do. But I actually think that that is where some directors get in trouble. They concentrate so much on trying to make everything perfect, that they forget to give a lot of people what they want, which is basically hot sex- shot well. Nothing wrong with a little pretense now or then, just back it up with some hot sex. Ultimately I think that is what most fans want. The sex should come first. Pun intended!
While the criticisms do seem to very, there is indeed a lot of it.
In general I don't like POV, but I like that audition POV in Anal cum addicts because it shows that it's not very easy to be a porn actor. We usually get to see all these girls taking on huge dicks with no problem - and I bet most regular girls would have trouble taking them on. The 'like a virgin' sequence in Reservoir Dogs comes to mind. "This cat's like Steve McQueen in 'The Great Escape' - he's diggin' tunnels".
I think POV can be great when shooting blowjob sequences, but it can be limiting sometimes when it comes to shooting the actual sex. Tough to really get a real good look at the females bodies because the camera is too close. I prefer to really be able to see the females body not just in the tease sequence, but also during the actual fucking. Some directors/performers are better at it than others. I like the style though. In the right hands, it can be and look great.
Rodney Moore and Mike John are the best POV cameramen. This isn't to offend anybody, but it seems like any Tom, Dick, or Harry who works as a performer in porn can pick up a camera and magically be called a director. With that said, it's getting harder and harder for the consumer to know what quality of camera work they'll be getting.
Like Quaze said, most of the better cameramen in porn choose to work for feature companies. I just wonder what kind of budget gonzo films are shot under. Is it too expensive to hire a freelance camera person for a shoot? If it's too expensive, just take the time to train performers who direct proper technique beyond just point and shoot.
Porn fans are very loyal to producers and directors. Giving up some free time to really learn your craft isn't too much to ask. I'm merely referring to the technical aspects. Has porn gotten so internal that they want consider hiring anyone that doesn't perform as a director?
The one thing that has been driving me crazy recently is the guys constantly pulling out while their fucking the girl. I swear this one guy must have pulled out about 20 times. I know the pussy must be good, but damn! How about these guys try pacing themselves a little better, instead of trying to go all-out when they know they can't. Be nice to see some sustained heat every now and then.
Some girls will let guys pop more than once, why not just let it out if you're having that much trouble holding it, then you can fuck her properly the 2nd time.
I guess this thread proves just how subjective it is, as there are many things that others’ like that I don’t, and vice versa, but here goes:-
- Censorship (of consensual acts between adult performers) - Fake tits - Bare feet - Fishnets - Tights (Pantyhose in the US?) - Too much of scenes with clothes off – how about a bit of variety (Italian porn has lots of clothes on, or partially clothed scenes - Mmmmm!) - Lack of ‘normal’ clothes, instead of all the ‘porn outfits’ which are used most of the time – again, variety please. - Poor cumshots (small load, off target etc.) - Wasted cumshots e.g. on bare feet, backs etc. Facials and/or swallowing please! - Poor/Dark lighting - Bad camera work - Crap Picture Quality – Why must gonzo frequently = poor PQ??? - Slow motion – If I want Slo-mo, I’ll use my DVD player's facility! - Music playing during scenes - I much prefer live sound. - Dubbed sound. - Editing from position to position - I like to see the performers ‘moving’ between positions. - Hairy pussies - Performers who do not live up to the box cover photos (do they ever???) - Scenes that go on and on and on… - Lots of tattoos, piercings.
Once the fucking starts, guys just need to shut the hell up, and let their dick's do the talking. There is way too much chattering in porn, these days.
Many people including myself have complained about this for years, but the people making porn just don't care. The problem is most male performers are also the directors, so they do whatever they want with no one to answer to. Turning off males fans doesn't bother them, because the movies are selling.
The only way to get males to quiet down, is to stop buying their movies. Low sells figures will be the only thing that will make them take notice to see what changes they need to make. Without that, it's business as usual.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't want to see DPs, 3Ps, DAPs, DPPs or anything double or triple. Nothing deadens my fantasies faster. As you can imagine, that cuts me out of a large quantity of the current scene. I can't really convey how irritating it is to be trawling box covers for a new favorite starlet, only to see her in one DP, 3P or gang bang after another. Apparently most people like this very, very much, due to its frequency so...no harm meant.
Though it feels laughably self-important to say so, my only firm "requirements" for a scene are 1-on-1 g/b and anal, so my heart goes out to all those who've complained for years that anal had become too frequent. I disagree and detested that point of view violently...but now the same thing has happened to me w/ the current preponderance of group sex. The market, apparently, has spoken.
I wanted to locate some 1-on-1 g/b anal of a certain overwhelmingly popular new starlet who just signed a major contract, and as of this writing, found exactly 2 options among dozens of releases featuring said starlet on their box cover. Not, perhaps, a reason to feel sorry for oneself, but annoying just the same.
Outside of that? don't like insulting or name-calling for either sex, obvious pain, any non-staged coercion (the line can be blurred at times.) Yeah, I want anal in every scene, but not if the talent loathes it. Of course there are "financial considerations" that render such concerns irrelevant in the industry. I, too, hate over-talkative guys. Loudly demanding that a girl come when she is clearly not close to doing so only makes a scene uncomfortable.
Careful viewing of the "making of" featurettes available on most DVDs has given me new insight into how very far from spontaneous passion a shoot can really be, but...that's why we call them "actors." Show some interest, or do a good job pretending.
gratskilsz, I agree with many, if not all, of your points.
I just watched an Aidan Layne scene in Teens With Tits 2 by Diabolic. The scene was billed as her "first anal."
One of the guys was Tony T, and the other was a Dia regular, but his name escapes me right now. Anyway, it was just about the worst scene I've ever seen. Not because of Aidan, in fact I admired her for sticking with it. I would have been out of there.
They were just gratuitously rough, inanely verbally abusive, and just plain disgusting. They show more of it in the BTS section, and she tries to let them know it's not fun.
I'm not one of these anti-BSDM porn people, either. I like it, and own alot of it. But this wasn't even a decent attempt at that. It was dumb. It's not something I expected to get when I watched a movie called Teens With Tits.
Well unfortunately porn is starting to show more of that mentality. Some of these male performers and male directors don't exactly have the best bedside manners. I think the female performers are gonna have to start researching some of these roles they take a little better, because I'm starting to see more of that kind of stuff then I'd like. That "what the fuck have I just got myself into look." I have no problem with it, although I don't care to watch it, if the females are really into it though.
Over acting.. I'm just a mere mortal, had my fair share of sex and I have never been able to get a girl to scream like they do in porn so its unrealistic for me to see and hear it in scene after scene. Do pornstars scream as loud in their private lives?
Spitting.. Its bad enough seeing sportsmen spit but seeing girls spat on during sex is a turn off.
Males getting their salad tossed.. Seeing a hot girl stick her tongue in a big hairy ass enlarged to the size of my tv screen is fast forward material.
Women begging for cum and then react like its kryptonite. Women asking for it in their mouth only to spit it out as soon as it arrives. We all love watching the facials so enjoy it when it arrives, even play with it. If you don't like cum tell the director beforehand.
Pierced genitalia and too many tattoos.. Mentioned before and it just doesn't look sexy. Why do pornstars have to get tattoos and ugly ones at that?
Two penises in the one orifice.. does nothing for me.
Well the overacting is supposedly for us guys. Most starlets cop to playing-up the vocal screaming. Personally I just prefer "real" reactions as opposed to putting on a show. I go more by body language, because its usually tougher to hide. A lot of directors are responsible for the over-reacting too. Can't understand why girls have to play-to-the-camera so much. She clearly can't be that into the sex if she's constantly looking into the camera.
Amen. A few series (guess which ones) that would otherwise be great are rendered so-so by this practice.
My peeve: Girls who always automatically say what the guy just did, in an apparent effort to make it seem like they thought of it before the guy did it:
GUY: [slaps girl's ass]
GIRL: "Yeah, slap my ass!"
GUY: [pulls girl's hair]
GIRL: "Yeah, pull my hair!"
GUY: [wipes his nose]
GIRL: "Yeah, wipe your nose!"
Girls, please try not to do this, at least not so much that it gets really fake. If you are into it, we will know it.
