EDIT: Not just gonzo, but reality / guerilla style production specifically.
I'm one of those weirdos who is like super nostalgic about everything, including my porn. I miss the bygone days of early Internet era porn. I don't know if just calling it "gonzo" is the correct term exactly. What I mean is all of those small, low-budget type websites that would put out content that your typical porn connoisseur would scoff at, and call shitty and distasteful. No bullshit, no script, no set, no pillow fluffing, it was just hardcore sex unedited. Stuff like Extreme Associates from back in the day, being a prime example. This stuff was hated by many, and loved by few. The idea was that they didn't put a ton of money into production, or talent, but they still knew the basics of how to shoot a damn good porn clip and basically did it on a shoe-string budget (at least this is how it seemed).
I don't know if I'm just out of touch, but nowadays it seems like that segment of the market is gone or has been replaced by amateur, tube site porn. Problem being, that stuff is really kinda shitty in a bad way, compared to these old crummy studio productions. It's just not the same. I don't wanna see some couple in their bedroom trying to replicate a raunchy porn. I want the raunchy porn, done the right way. With talent, in a cheap hotel room, with a camera guy. I don't really know what makes that magic work, but it's in the formula somewhere. That stuff was so fucking good, and I feel like you just don't see that anymore. At least, I haven't seen anything like it for some time.
I like my crappy porn to be made a very certain kind of way. I find myself just going back to this old-school 2000s era stuff (reality style you might call it?). I wish porn still had this kind of magic. Am I stuck wearing rose-tinted glasses here, or did all that really go the way of the dodo? Am I the only one who really misses all these raunchy, low-rent porn sites that used to exist back in the day? What's left in the industry for us fans of this style?
^ If what you're describing as being loved by only a few, then count me in as one of those few too. I miss the zany feel of the porn from those days. I can't describe how it was different but you know what I mean.
This is the basis of amateur porn I thought. Although, many are attempting to follow the mold of the major and have themes, storyline, some kind of "pickup" or reason as to why they're fucking. I love the idea of just getting right to what I am looking for... THE FUCKIN!
Amateurs are amateurs for a reason. They don't know how to make good memorable porn clips. There may be a few who do, but many do not posses the talent. To some it's a science, to others an art. But to me, it's not just setting a camera on a tripod and fucking your girlfriend in a thousand different videos that all look the same. There's just a lot more to a good video than that. What's slutty about your girlfriend having sex with you?
To me, the gonzo era was the perfect middle ground between just point a camera and go, and the overblown bullshit of mainstream porn movies. It had a methodology, a way of making their films that would grab your attention and make you feel like you've got to see it. It was brash, hardcore and driven more by it's over the top nature and shock-value than having some big name featured in it. I dunno, it was just really cool... but so many dynamics of the industry have changed since then. There's a flood of amateur porn now and mainstream also tries to cover just about every niche as well, so these small production companies were pretty much squeezed out by the 2010s it seems.
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Porn_OG Deactivated User
7 Posts 6/22
Posted - Jun 15 2022 : 11:32PM
What exactly is the definition of gonzo? I thought it was just straight sex without any plot element. In that case isn't most porn gonzo these days?
^I thought the same thing but maybe he's talking about early 2000's and companies like Red Light District and Anabolic who had series like "Cum Swapping sluts" and "Bring 'em young", "Swallow My Pride"etc., I enjoyed many of those but there were some really poor ones too. For every really cute and hot girl there were quite a few that I had to fast forward through because it wasn't worth watching.
Plot has made comeback in a lot of the today's porn even if it's not in everything, but dodgerfan is correct. As I've stated, I'm talking about these small studios from back in the day that didn't spend a bunch of money on porn star models, fancy sets, directors, and all of that fluff in order to make movies. Just mostly raw, unedited content, not watered down for mass appeal, as it was usually edgier than your typical mainstream movie. Talent that maybe you've heard of, and maybe not. It could bit hit and miss, but if you were into a particular type of niche, you could guarantee there was a series dedicated to precisely that formula, and they knew their craft well.
Today, the mainstream might try to emulate some of that in it's own overly produced way, and some amateur does too. But it's not the same, it just isn't. My question is where is all the cheaply made porn of today?
^ I those kind of studios still exist in a way, they are just distributing differently. They're putting stuff out through outlets like Manyvids or Onlyfans.
I'm thinking of folks like 2 Drops or Disciples of Desire as examples.
Let me see if I can address some of what the OP wrote.
1-The title of this thread is beyond misleading because it implies the complete opposite of what is reality. I mean come on gonzo is almost the only kind of porn being made today or for the last decade so how exactly can the OP state it is dead or even dying.
2-No offense but Extreme was not a small low budget porn making studio but a f..king powerhouse who at one point was winning awards when those awards meant something. They may not have spent their money developing intricate scenarios but they certainly spent it on the talent they managed to hire both in front and behind the camera. The kind of porn they made must have been expensive because the talent they hired was not low grade amateurs but true porn professionals.
3-Extreme is dead because like Max Hardcore they forgot that just because you can push boundaries doesn't mean that you should and if you do push them then make sure you don't go too far over the line. They did and they paid the ultimate price.
4-Not sure what the OP considers to be amateur porn in todays industry because the vast majority of all the sites I can think of can't be considered amateur unless you think their performers are themselves amateur which in that regard I would agree but that doesn't make the kind of porn they make to be true amateur porn.
5- I need the OP to give me examples of plot in modern porn because if any of his examples is stuff made by the VXG then he is confusing a B.S premise that last 2-5 minutes and means absolutely nothing once the sex scene begins. (The exception being the stuff made under the Deeper banner).
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jun 16 2022 : 11:54PM
Gonzo lesbian porn needs to come back. No incest predators. No one pretending to be in high school. No one pretending they have never had sexual experiences before. None of some of the worst acting I have ever seen. No over-production. Just hot women in uninhibited glory and maybe. but not necessarily, in a beautiful location.
There's a little bit of it with SLAYED and LesbianX, but those sites make intentionally terrible content, more screaming than actual sex. Lesbian sex fans need a high-quality competitor that nixes all the bullshit and puts out good content i.e. hot women trying to fuck each other to orgasm.
I am glad you posted this pat362, because what you state is the truth. I feel the OP started this thread with a big misconception.
Objectively speaking, there is far LESS money in porn productions today than there was in decades past.
Think about the major budgets that every Private video had in the 1990s-2000s, with big crews, elaborate sets, exotic shooting locations. They would helicopter onto a mountain just to shoot a sex scene.
Even the company that started the gonzo revolution, Anabolic Video... their Gangbang Girl series had amazing production values. They had camera cranes, they would rent sports stadiums.
None of that is happening now. None of that will ever happen again. it is just too costly
Correct again. Extreme Associates made nasty porn, but it was not low production. They had features like Abyss and In the Days of Whore, with crazy setups and costumes. The cost far surpassed porn productions today.
Extreme Associates also had their own pro wrestling show, XPW TV, with many events and episodes. They promoted their gangbang queens Kristi Myst and Lizzy Borden like legit pro wrestling divas.
Hardly a shoe-string budget, they spent millions of dollars.
Right. it was not lack of demand that destroyed Extreme Associates, it was Rob Black literally challenging the federal government to arrest him on obscenity charges.I am also confused by the OP. The request is for "low-rent" porn, but what OP likes is NOT "low-rent"
OP admires Extreme Associates because "they didn't put a ton of money into production or talent" (which is incorrect)
in the next paragraph, OP says "raunchy porn done the right way" needs talent.
OP also criticizes "half-assed amateur stuff" with "shit lighting and static angles" i.e. poor production values.
The OP did state that his primary motivation is nostalgia. That's rarely compatible with the actual facts of the thing that's attracting said nostalgia. In a way, I suppose Extreme Associates were very successful in what they set out to do - they spent a lot of money to make their porn look like they weren't doing that, delivering a glossed-up version of grittiness that at least the OP considered to be close to "real". So yeah, regarding:The magic formula is called "money spent on production values". The only difference to higher-value productions nowadays like VMG's stuff is that Extreme spent their money on aspects you wanted to see.
As I've admitted in the first post, I don't think that calling it "gonzo" is an accurate label to give it. A lot of my perceptions are based on what was in the early 2000s. At the time, it was largely referred to as gonzo because these studios were pioneering the style, and it stood out from the porn of old. Yes, it changed the game but that doesn't make today's porn equal to that era. Today's porn feels expensive, scripted, contrived, safe and sterile. It's not the same feel as what you'd see from the early 2000s in terms of hardcore. When's the last time a major player in porn studios filmed inside of some Motel 6, or in their own crappy little distribution office? Or featured a roster of low-profile talent that you mostly haven't heard of? When's the last time they ever did something controversial or edgy?
Maybe what I'm driving at is that it was more like the "reality TV" counterpart of porn, it was made to look and feel off the cuff and not like a movie. For example, you had shit like OLD-SCHOOL BangBros from the early 2000s. Where the production looked like something a couple of nobody's could have put together with a camera and their shitty van. That stuff was big too, back in the OG days. As where today's mainstream even without much plot, comes across more like a scripted show, at a studio, where everything is controlled and staged. It doesn't have that element of being real or raw. It doesn't have that feel of just some dudes with a camera making porn their own way, regardless of whether it's perfect or will be critically successful.
Examples of modern porn with a plot. Anything by Brazzers?
^Your choice of title for the thread is at the heart of the problem because your issue is not so much about modern porn but that you miss studios like Extreme. I'm with you because I also miss Extreme just like I miss JM Production. Some of my favorite videos are from these studios and it sucks that they couldn't survive but I would argue that not a single studio from back then. How about studios like Platinum X, Red Light, Anabolic, Diabolic and I could go on. Studios whose videos are some of my favorite. None of them survived the advent of the internet and the content thieves who killed them. Some would say that the only surviving studio from back then is Evil Angel and to those people I say you are delusional. EA is no longer a producing company but a distribution company and worse it's not even distributing exclusive content.
It's my hope that one day we get studios to produce content that is similar to those I named but at least for now we still have a lot of their content that is available on streaming if not for download but please don't say that gonzo is dead because it isn't. Feature porn is nearly dead and that is really sad.
can you elaborate on why or how do other content makers survive now (when there's no lack of thieves)? what's different between today's creators and those studios you mentioned?
I'm asking genuinely, i'm not really knowledgeable about this
If I can redo the title of the thread, I think the question I'm asking is - is reality/guerilla style hardcore dead, such as that which was popular in the 2000s. I think that's more the difference in production style that I'm trying to articulate with this topic... It's something that I don't see anymore, and if it is still being made then I'm not aware of it.
do you have an example of a scene/movie in mind? cause i for one (even though i consumed quite a bit of porn in the past 3 decades) have no clue what exactly you're referring to when you say "reality/guerrila" production?
there's TONS of plot-less, straight-to-the-point, extremely hard porn being produced by a variety of studios including ones where the camera-man "behaves" as if they're filming an amateurish video
how is it different than what you're referring to?
can you give an attribute or an element of the type of porn you're referring to that all current porn lacks?
there's plenty of porn productions that feel unscripted --- things like the "exploited" series come to mind (and probably a lot of other things i don't even know of). you might say you can't suspend your belief enough to buy that... well, in the end they have to have some plan ahead of time or the scene would be an awkward mess of confusion and misunderstanding
there's also plenty of porn productions that feel as if they're amateurish --- but, maybe due to 1080p/4K it doesn't look like that to you and you miss the pixelated look of past porn? (cause true amateur porn is almost never in HD for some reason)
how exactly would you go about making it "Edgy"? you already have porn that has pee drinking, quadruple anal, bdsm with extreme bondage and torture, puke, and EVEN scat (more in the independent-porn-maker realm). in japanese porn you can find even MORE bizarre and extreme things...
what would be "edgy" in a world that has virtually every kind of fetish already catered to?
OP, I fully understand what you mean. All those guys got destroyed by tubes. Now you have a new crop of porners with different ways of doing things. Those 90's to 00s guys would spend $20-30k for a title (5-6 scenes) then do a distro deal with a top studio (hustler, elegant angel, red light, sticky, crave etc.). DVD/VHS sales were high. Now porners do direct distro deals with tubes, fan sites and clip sites. Different era now, no paid shoots, content trade. Different method of distro, per scene instead of per movie. One website with a theme (1000 or more scenes) instead of a series of DVDs. Same women on all the videos. tt boy, woodburn, mike john, burke, vince voyeur, jake steed, swiney, brandon iron, d luger
Sorry for not responding sooner. Take the following for what it's worth as I have no inside information and I'm using an educated guess. The one thing all the studios I named have in common is that they precede the internet and all of the ones still in business today for the most part don't(Jules Jordan would be one of the exceptions but I'll talk about him further below. That means that all those studios relied on the sale of physical media to make money and that required a lot more employees than what most modern studios now need. When the internet became a thing all those studios had huge libraries of movies that they could have digitized and then used to entice people to join their site(had they had one) but digitization of movies on tape or even celluloid isn't cheap so that would have required them to invest significant amounts of money that many probably didn't have or weren't willing to invest right away and by the time some of them may have chose to take the plunge. Content thieves had already started to upload their movies to tube/torrent sites thereby killing any chance those studios would have of recuperating their investment.
Now as to Jules Jordan. While there is no denying that he was there before the internet. To me he is exactly like Evil Angel in that he no longer produces his own stuff but is just a distributor of other peoples videos.
^ Re: Jules Jordan... That's a bit harsh, isn't it? DVDs aside (with only one title per month nowadays), Jules Jordan video steadily releases one scene every 3 days, and why would you say that would be "just a distributor of other peoples videos."
Yes, he does distribution for the odd Jada Stevens movie (4 volumes until now), and some Manuel Ferrara stuff, but that's basically it, all the rest is genuine JJV stuff. Evil Angel on the other hand is definitely a studio in name only, all it does is DVD distribution for a host of directors. Online stuff, while under the umbrella of Evil Angel, is already distributed not by Evil Angel themselves, but by Gamma Corporation. That's also the reason the Web interface for all sites distributed by Gamma look alike.
^&^^He stars only in 15 of the 58 videos released this year and I'm not sure that all of them were shot this year so while he clearly still appears on video. It's about 25% of the sites output this year so not exactly a lot for a site named Jules Jordan.
^ There's a difference in "producing his own stuff" (which doesn't necessarily mean "starring") and distributing other people's stuff. I mean, you can't seriously compare JJV with Evil Angel. Even if you look at the older stuff, Jules was always in less than 50% of the videos.
Or would you also claim True Anal/AnalOnly/etc. is now only "distributing" stuff because Mike Adriano isn't in each video anymore.
Even if some of the JJV videos released this year weren't shot recently, still you can't deny one would recognize a JJV video instantly, the lighting/coloring, but also locations/style of shooting is nothing but consistent for now more than 15 years.
Posted - Jun 15 2022 : 12:50PM
