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Introducing Dallas Rea| Author | Post |
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BlackSix  All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 |  Posted - Jun 18 2012 : 6:37PM[Link] |
| Niteflyte777 Member 36 Posts 5/11 | Posted - Jun 18 2012 : 11:04PM [Link] |
| BustdownGal Member 539 Posts 7/06 | Posted - Jun 18 2012 : 11:05PM [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Jun 18 2012 : 11:49PM [Link] |
| BustdownGal Member 539 Posts 7/06 | Posted - Jun 18 2012 : 11:53PM 2. The pattern of American porn is most assuredly an objectifying one. That pattern is clearly "men's penises must be pleased to orgasm and women's pleasure comes from their service of the penis, not from their clitorises being stimulated." Men are subject and women are object. Let's not forget who I am, guys: if you took all the cum I've seen shoot across this monitor and put it in my backyard I'd have an Olympic-sized cum pool with enough left over for a cum hottub. I know porn. 1000 examples that break the rule does NOT change the hard rule that pornographers do NOT create a high percentage of fantasies of women being clitorically pleasured by men. I used to think maybe I just hadn't seen enough porn. Maybe I hadn't found that vein of clit-centered porn. But all I've found is the occasional vein. The mass of the mine is filled with an ore called couldn't-give-a-fuck-about-the-clit. 3. Porn alone may not spread the thought virus of objectification. But porn as we know it, which is mostly objectifying, combined with a vacuum of proper sexual education leads to more men believing in and acting out objectification. And in the U.S. we most assuredly have a vacuum of proper sexual education. Many of us get our sexual education from porn, especially now that the Web has existed for 20 years. Saying porn has no power to spread ideas is like saying the Bible has no power to spread ideas. Let's stop lying to ourselves.There's a whole conversation in this comment about how men have a pattern of only paying attention to women they are attracted to and utterly ignoring women they are not attracted to, but we won't have that now.1. I'm sorry, but the premise of this analogy is one I can't hang with. Delilah? A fictional character who doesn't exist? You have to bring it closer to home for me to understand. 2. Here's what I think: there's no such thing as "shallow animalistic attraction." No matter how fucking "raw" a person thinks their lust is, not a single one of us on this forum is jumping from the bushes and mounting strangers on the street like a yak or a goat. Except for Random Precision because he admittedly doesn't give a shit about hurting women. Look, brothers, everything we do has morality and ethics in it, even sex...some would say ESPECIALLY sex. People who act without human morality and ethics end up in jail. The overwhelming majority of us are not criminals. We WANT to do good. We want to be called good by others. But you can't let your desire to be CALLED good trump the desire to BE good. You can't ignore the plain fact that this industry has a pattern of ignoring women's sexual pleasure while at the same time trying to sell to us that it LOVES women's pleasure by, within the art form itself, selling us all that moaning and groaning while he's nowhere NEAR the clitoris. [Link] |
| BustdownGal Member 539 Posts 7/06 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 12:09AM 2. People want to see anything that's well-made. Landscaping, outer space and funerals are all boring things until you turn them into Edward Scissorhands, Prometheus and Six Feet Under.Wow. Please tell this to your wife now so that she can hasten the divorce.Men get enough fantasy. We all get enough fantasy. We are surrounded by so much fantasy and fiction that the only times we feel anything is when we sense the slightest moment of verisimilitude to life. When do we get to stop dreaming and wake up? When do we jack out instead of just jacking in and jacking off? [Link] |
| BustdownGal Member 539 Posts 7/06 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 12:22AM [Link] |
| BustdownGal Member 539 Posts 7/06 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 12:26AM This one statement from you invalidates everything you have ever and will ever say about women. [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 12:36AM If one mistaken statement invalidates everything a person has ever said or will say in the future, then nobody ever says anything valid, including you. Because nobody is perfect, and everybody makes mistakes once in a while in the things they say. Edited by - Dan on 6/19/2012 12:37:13 AM [Link] |
| Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 2:07PM [Link] |
| David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 5:54PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 6:08PM |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 6:10PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 6:14PM Edited by - randomprecision on 6/19/2012 7:30:04 PM [Link] |
| Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05 | Posted - Jun 20 2012 : 3:18AM Actresses most certainly have choices in what they will or will not do onscreen. Now if a producer influences their decision by intimidation, smooth talk, or some subtle threat as not working. That's still on them. That's why they have no lists and the ability to simply say no. Not saying there are never repercussions, but in the end, they gotta decide what kind of pornstar they want or are willing to be. [Link] |
| David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10 | Posted - Jun 20 2012 : 6:30PM Well, when your facing the bill collector,your choices become considerably less free. And if an actress has to be wary of "repercussions" or face intimidation, then doesn't this suggest a degree of misogyny in the industry? Edited by - David Cop-a-feel on 6/21/2012 6:43:24 AM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Jun 20 2012 : 9:28PM [Link] |
| David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10 | Posted - Jun 20 2012 : 10:15PM [Link] |
| killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18633 Posts 4/08 | Posted - Jun 20 2012 : 10:35PM Please be respectful of each other's opinions even if you disagree. [Link] |
| Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 4:16AM There is definitely misogyny in the porn business. I've not that naive, and have certainly seen my opinion of it over the years. I just don't think it's especially prevalent. [Link] |
| DoubleBagel New Member 5 Posts 6/12 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 7:47AM Posters badger female performers about when are they going to try anal, gangbangs, blowbangs, double penetration, double anal, etc. etc. Maybe some performers find these acts degrading and uncomfortable, and that's why they don't perform them on a regular basis??? If you're into misogynistic porn, it's pretty obvious. It's comical when posters are making all sorts of posts seeking out misogynistic porn, then they feel the need to invade this thread and argue that the porn they like is not misogynist. If you are into misogynistic porn, thank your lucky stars that it's such a large part of the American porn industry. If that's your thing, there's a lot of it out there for you to consume. Don't waste peoples time in this thread making comically contradictory statements. So Let me see if I understand your position, RandomPrecision, you display all sorts of animosity towards feminists, and you say It's hard for you to say something like you love women. Yet, you're also arguing that you are not a misogynist?? Mr. RandomPrecision, can you not see the inconsistencies in your own arguments? [Link] |
| packman New Member 4 Posts 6/12 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 9:06AM But today's "mainstream" porn is almost embarrassing with how it treats its female performers. Since when has it become enjoyable to be choked, spit upon, and slapped? Do most women really want to have their pussies "stretched by absurdly large cocks? What, exactly, is supposed to be enjoyable for the girl to have to hold multiply shots of cum in their mouths until given permission to swallow? Have any of you ever had anything large inserted in to your ass? I hate the prostate exam during my yearly doctor's visit - and that's just one finger! I do know that some women do enjoy anal sex, but to have you asshole stretched large enough to take a baseball bat? Damn. It's a free country, and if people enjoy - get off, actually - on this, then so be it. But do not try to pretend it is something other than what it is. And do not try to pretend that most of these young women simply love doing this. They don't. Read their personal blogs, interviews, etc. Most look forward to having sex with someone with a normal dick - as one young lady said, "there's nothing fun about having your cervix pounded". They do this because it is the job they have, and few have any other real options. Doing porn to begin with has limited their opportunities in other types of non-adult entertainment. Unfortunate, but true. In this economy, there aren't a lot of other jobs that pay as well for the amount of time invested. But it is done for the money, despite what they may say to a camera (they are in character all the time, you know... No real names, little insight into their real lives - and rightly so, by the way). One beautiful young lady said in an interview that she was only making $400 a month when she started porn. She probably made more than that on her first shoot. But then she was in, and I doubt quick sand has any thing on the porn industry when it comes to trapping people. But people can live their own lives, make their own decisions. Plenty of folks could examine and be critical of my own life. Once again, a free county. People chose to do this work, and other chose to watch it. Cool Just be honest about it. [Link] |
| monkey power Member Tim? 868 Posts 1/03 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 1:27PM Sex is universal, right? It's how we all got here, after all. So surely porn must be equally relevant to both genders.... So that's why porn viewership is a 50/50 split between male and female viewers, right? oooops. that's not the case, is it? So porn isn't gender neutral, we must admit. Rather, it is slanted toward the male fantasy side of things. The 'male victory' kind of sex that's a somewhat rare event in reality is taken by pornography and turned into a daily non-stop event on screen, as if these pornographers are batting 1000, as if they have an unnatural success rate at finding willing women. Unnatural being the key word. That's where the feminists' claims of misogyny come from---in order to supply this male fantasy content on such a regular basis, it almost certianly has required the systematic mistreatment of female performers. Not on every porn set. Not at every point in history. But overall, historically, the trend is that these women have been taken advantage of, according to porn's detractors. Obviously, everyone is different, so if you "poll" (ha ha) 10000 women civilians, some of them will have banged multiple guys at the same time in their private lives. They might have done so just to satisfy their own personal curiosity, or because different people develop different sex habits, etc. But by and large, gangbangs go against the nature of what women are trying to do in the sex game, which is to narrow the field of prospective mates (before actually mating with everyone). So the B/B/G is one example of how porn frequently pushes women to go against basic human nature. So while each individual director and producer may treat her politely on set, her psychology still suffers from the overall effect of being used this way. In order for the male viewer to experience these repeated fantasy wins, her pride must suffer the repeated losses. We fans often delude ourselves about this, finding some way to pretend it isn't so. Because such thoughts might lead to a twinge of guilt that could deflate our all-important hard-ons. (Again, everyone is different, so a particular starlet may not be going against her own personal habits all that much. She might be within her comfort zone the whole time. But even in that case most other women would still see her habits as being outside the norm. So even if she can truthfully say "I love my job," she's still not doing these other civilian women any favors (from their point of view), because her sex adventure movies give guys the impression that every girlfriend should be up for the wild stuff. So from the outsider femme point of view, these starlets are working agianst the interests of women. And that's true, we'd have to admit, because we're employing them to work for OUR male interests and provide us with fantasy material. So it's a complicated thing. Are these starlets turncoats or heroes? Probably neither. They're probably just people doing a job that has emotional risks to it along with some quick rewards. There's a market for what they do, and we live in a market economy. So they're a function of our culture, of us being us. I'm sure the NAACP has employed some white lawyers at some point, right? Does that by itself make the NAACP hypocrits? Probably not. It's a sign of progress, too. A sign that all humans are really on the same team in the end. And by the same token some women work to please men, making our lives less dreary. So what? Does that by itself make these women traitors to all womenkind? Probably not. Though society's unforgiving glare may make them feel shunned like a traitor sometimes. They're performing a valuable service for that same society, however. Unfortunately, because of our sexual hang-ups, porn has to exist out on the fringe of society. Which attracts thug types to the biz, since the stigma attached to working in the sex industry generally scares off your more trustworthy individuals. So, in other words, when porn's females are mistreated there's no safety net for them like there is in many other industries. People don't form grass roots movements to help look after ex-pornstars the way many Americans are motivated to care for our troops however they can. Etc. Since sex workers are already operating out on the fringe, almost nobody is going to be there to step in and help when things go wrong for these women. It's like when you're out camping in the boonies and your car breaks down on a road without any traffic and where your phone doesn't work. It's tough to get rescued in that situation. That's the scary part of the biz. The whole being discarded thing. We could do better in addressing substance abuse issues among our naked people. Etc. And this is true regardless of whether you think porn is misogynist. And we could do this so easily. But there's no will. That's a failing of our ever-tweeting society, fans and feminists both. [Link] |
| Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 1:31PM So your saying female pornstars are being forced to perform acts they don't want to perform? They don't have any free will to say no or not today? Edited by - aplus on 6/21/2012 1:33:52 PM [Link] |
| packman New Member 4 Posts 6/12 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 3:12PM But if you have never had to do anything you didn't like to do but did so because you needed the job and/or paycheck, then you are a lucky person. I have had to do many jobs in my line of work that I would rather have not done, but did so because I didn't feel I had a choice if I wanted to keep my job. Not uncommon in the working person's world. An adult performer's line of work is sex, and if you don't think many have done things they would otherwise not chose to do simply because they thought it would hurt their career or put future jobs at risk if they didn't, then you are being naive. [Link] |
| DoubleBagel New Member 5 Posts 6/12 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 5:26PM Porn has become so misogynistic, that scenes where both performers are enjoying themselves and paying attention to each others needs and desires are considered to a niche sub-genre of mainstream American pornography. I enjoy watching rough, degrading porn sometimes, but I also would like to find more porn that is about both performers enjoying themselves and expressing positive feeling toward each other. I think not enough of that type of porn is being made. Even most of the so called couples films seem to feature a lot of mechanical sex with little passion. If there is passion it is over the top, and cartoonishly fake. I'm a new poster here, but I've been lurking for awhile. I watch a lot of porn myself, and I don't want to censor anyone, or deprive them of the types of porn they like, or ridicule the fetishes they have. I just think a lot of consumers would buy positive, happy porn if more of it was being made. [Link] |
| David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10 | Posted - Jun 21 2012 : 5:40PM Excellent,thoughtful posts from packman and doublebagel!Welcome,BTW. Edited by - David Cop-a-feel on 6/21/2012 5:40:46 PM [Link] |
| Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05 | Posted - Jun 22 2012 : 12:10AM [Link] |
| packman New Member 4 Posts 6/12 | Posted - Jun 22 2012 : 7:43AM I think we just have a different perspective on this. Yes, everyone has choices. The performers do have the choice, and can say no - and I am sure often do. I also know they have lists of things that are off limits that they will not do. What I am saying is that it looks like - from the outside, the very outside - that once a young lady makes the decision to perform in a porn movie, etc., her options have been severely limited. Right or wrong, like it or not, there is a stigma attached to having worked in porn. Reality. So they have chosen a path that is very narrow. And it seems like the average performer doesn't work that much, actually, from reading other threads in this forum, so if the choice is between, say, doing anal and not working, and she has bills to pay simply to "live", then that choice is very loaded, heavily weighted towards one side. Look at the agency "line-ups". Notice how many say, "now doing anal", or "now doing gangbangs", or "now dong IR". They started out with certain standards and have changed them. Do we all do that in life? Sure. But I think a porn actress's choices are much more restricted that the average person's. I would add that the disturbing - to me, at least - revelation of how many of these beautiful young women turn to escorting (prostitution) to make additional income as proof of how this business can and will entangle them very quickly. If that becomes a preferred way to bring in more income, then obviously their options are limited. Performing in a controlled, safe environment on a movie set with multiple people around is far different from meeting a man in a room to provide services. That is a far more dangerous and ultimately degrading line of work. Ultimately, we all (primarily us men) have enjoyed to benefits of these young women's efforts. We love their work. We enjoy it and often gain "satisfaction" from it. They deserve better in the end. [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Jun 22 2012 : 11:52PM Now Obviously, most of them are not Harvard grads but they're not completely stupid. We have had this very same convo on this forum many times. To the point to where this thread is really just a not so subtle troll. If you have this much of a problem with porn, don't watch it. I'll keep jacking off to porn as long as I can get it up. I am never going to be dissuaded by this nonsense. [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 2:10AM I think most women naturally want to be attractive for many guys and be popular among guys as a result of being sexually attractive. It's not just the money that attracts women to the porn business. The money actually isn't that good. Because even though women get paid a substantial amount for each scene, they don't produce that many scenes in a year. Their yearly pay isn't that great compared to what people get paid in many other types of employment. I think the greatest attraction of being a porn star for a woman is being popular among literally thousands, hundreds of thousands, and in some cases even millions of horny guys. It's a boost to female ego to have so many guys masturbate about them. [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 2:19AM Edited by - randomprecision on 6/23/2012 2:27:16 AM [Link] |
| packman New Member 4 Posts 6/12 | Posted - Jun 25 2012 : 8:27PM Random... I know you are worried that your girlfriend Hanna and her five friends might lack some inspiration if porn didn't constantly push the limits of, er, "taste", for lack of a more descriptive term. But you also might consider being an actual human being for a while. In my posts, I never said anything generally anti-porn. I watch it. I would fight any attempt to stop my ability to watch. Or yours. But, you know, in the real world - with real flesh and blood females - most women really don't want to be treated as most porn portrays sex. Most porn is for male fantasies, some of which are not much to be proud of. Saying that these women should be better appreciated, and thus compensated, would actually work well for you since it might help maintain a supply for you to sit in your chair and do your thing to. You sound like the guys that leave a dollar tip on a $50 dollar meal because, "they do get paid by the hour by the restaurant". Edited by - killbillvol69 on 6/25/2012 10:09:03 PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Jun 25 2012 : 11:04PM Edited by - randomprecision on 6/25/2012 11:07:12 PM [Link] |
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| Myload Senior Member A rose is what you are to me 2069 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Nov 4 2012 : 6:51PM [Link] |
| BustdownGal Member 539 Posts 7/06 | Posted - Nov 4 2012 : 7:10PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Nov 4 2012 : 10:50PM [Link] |
| Myload Senior Member A rose is what you are to me 2069 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Nov 4 2012 : 10:54PM [Link] |
| Myload Senior Member A rose is what you are to me 2069 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Nov 4 2012 : 10:55PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Nov 4 2012 : 11:46PM Obviously, porn has to be misogynistic at it's core. Men hate women so they are therefore irresistibly drawn to spending virtually unlimited amounts of time and money watching women have sex and being turned on by it. That's it! I've figured out the eternal mystery! Wait'll I tell everyone! Men don't really love sex. We just hate women and that's why we watch porn and think about sex all the time! [Link] |
| edogib New Member 1 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Nov 5 2012 : 5:45AM (On the other hand, I don't see why porn would be misogynistic "at it's core" - instead of "merely" "how it's done most of the time".) [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Nov 5 2012 : 7:38AM I gotta tell ya. I never spent 5 seconds masturbating to a pig so maybe you should have that looked into. [Link] |
| Tudor24 Member 21 Posts 9/12 | Posted - Nov 5 2012 : 8:00AM Romantic comedies are bizarro porn. Women spend just as much money watching these repetitive pieces of tripe. The average romantic comedy disregards everything that is central to men in order to create a world where a man is made to disregard his desires in order to become a woman's lesbian lover with a penis attached. They create the female version porn fantasy. In real life men figure out ways to please a woman's clitoris sexually because they care about them. And most women eventually let men have the part of themselves that will never grow up, act ridiculous and stupid, because it is the relief valve that saves men from lives of "quiet desperation" and a women who truly loves a man doesn't walk around thinking that all men have their feet on the throat of women in general. Edited by - tudor24 on 11/5/2012 8:11:02 AM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Nov 5 2012 : 8:20AM In real life, porn IS the pressure relief valve for many people. [Link] |
| Tudor24 Member 21 Posts 9/12 | Posted - Nov 5 2012 : 8:34AM [Link] |
| hoochimama Deactivated User 1437 Posts 5/10 | Posted - Nov 7 2012 : 10:57AM [Link] |
| JohnW Senior Member 1351 Posts 6/08 | Posted - Nov 7 2012 : 11:34AM That doesn't mean that there is no misogyny, but for those people who say that porn only focuses on men's desires... well, duh. It should be obvious but I guess it isn't for some. [Link] |
| echoplex Member 197 Posts 9/08 | Posted - Nov 7 2012 : 4:10PM Porn doesn't really care about women. Yes, there are some female-friendly brands. But most of it is by men, for men. It reduces women to body parts, fetishes, race/ethnicity, etc. Just about any scenario a guy could dream up, producers will have women lined up to make it so. It's not because those women love whatever that is, as much as it is they get paid for it, get some attention from it. It's a lot like prostitution. Porn uses people, men too, but especially women. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Nov 7 2012 : 4:16PM I'd simply say a lot of porn is misogynistic but that not all porn is misogynistic per se. As for Myload's question about features, just like gonzo it depends on the feature. Certainly a number of features from the 70s are overtly misogynistic, whereas some, many of the best, are far from it. [Link] |
| Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Nov 7 2012 : 5:32PM [Link] |
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