Is porn sex good sex or bad sex, or both? When you watch it, do you find yourself wishing your sex was like that, or thinking, 'man, our sex is so much better than that'? Is there an element in porn of the dumbed-down game show, where the questions are just stupid enough to make the viewer tune in so he/she can feel superior?
Porn is a varied world; I have seen porn that has amazed, disgusted, bored,tantalized, and shocked me.
I do wish my life mirrored Ass Worship 1; and when it has, my sex life couldn't get any better.
I think the superiority complex can be two-fold. Some people love seeing women do degrading things, to be completely honest. As sex can be viewed as a conquest, it can be very satisfying to see beautiful women ravaged. Thus, the viewer feels superior.
On the flip-side, some people watch a lot of pornography with less than stellar looking women (myself included.) Maybe it is a superiority feeling that I get when I watch slightly out of shape or depressed women. Hey, its also a inferiority complex too. The viewer, (me in this case) cannot fantasize about beautiful women because we feel intimidated, confused, or disillusioned by them.
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superfly skywarrior Deactivated User
England 180 Posts 6/02
Posted - Oct 17 2002 : 11:35PM
p-knuckle, i had a friend who used to love watching porn and the nasty hard stuff aswell. he had an attractive girlfriend at the time and we always used to joke about getting our brown wings with girls but when i asked him if he'd ever had anal with his girl, he said he wouldn't want to, as he would never be able to look at her in the same way again. i was quite shocked at what he said, but i guess he just didn't want to have a "porn" sex life.
Interesting way to put it India. Taking your game show analogy - most porn to me is kinda like Family Fued. Too many contestants, for one thing. It's a big clusterfuck. They all make a lot of noise, trying to pretend they're excited, but it rings false. Ending is also too predictable.
The only kind of game shows that don't bore me are ones like Jeopardy. Intelligent contestants that aren't degraded. It makes you think, you never know how it will end. Good build-up, the best person eliminates the others, then it ratchets up a notch. The tension mounts, you go for broke. The Jeopardy theme song is played - da da da dum, da da dum
I now masturbate to Alex Trebek. Asmodeus has admitted spankin it to QVC and Home Shopping Network. I'm not sure what it means.
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Oct 18 2002 : 7:50AM
india,
I think a lot of it has to do with age and experience.
A younger person that has hardly or never dated might look at porn as "Gee, so that's what it's like".
An older person that has a fair amount of experience might look at it as "Wow, neat fantasy", but realize that it is a fantasy they are watching.
We watch movies, mainstream and porn to be entertained.
I believe porno sex is entertainment, pure & simple. While some of the elements might be fun to try, it's ridiculous to even compare it to real life in some respects. Sort of like watching a James Bond flic.
I'm with Ayb and DD on this, in that I (personally) distinctly separate porn from reality. I expect that not everyone has such a strong sense of fantasy vs reality, especially when your young, you've not had much sexual experience and porn is all you've ever seen on the subject.
Anyway, with regard to your question, I think porn is a mixed bag, with most of that bag containing dumbed down filler. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the dumbed down filler, but it doesn't stimulate my mind, or enhance my sexual persona any. On the other hand, there is some aspects of porn that I think deserve more credit than they get. The exploration of human sexuality is extremely complex, and just because most of the pornographers out there aren't really interested in, or qualified for, a serious exploration of the topic doesn't mean that there aren't some out there who are both. Explicit pornography has such an amazing potential to show us things about ourselves that the more conservative mainstream can't explore. Just like in the mainstream though, I enjoy my share of dumbed down filler as much as the next guy.
Porn is in an awkward position, in that most people (including myself) watch it for no other reason than to be aroused and/or get off. It's hard to do anything of substance when all most of the audience wants to do is jack off as fast as possible. I certainly don't want explicit pornography to show me the ugly side of sex (I've got plenty of mainstream that can do that), I want to be aroused in ways I didn't expect on occasion. That kind of vision and innovation is extremely rare in porn though, and I certainly would like to see more of it.
That being said, Evil Angel's latest, The Fashionistas is as innovative and cutting edge as they come. While still being a fantasy, and not necessarily something I wish for in real life, it explores a world of sexuality that I have little experience with. It stimulatd my arousal in ways I've never experienced before, while at the same stimulating my mind in an analytical sense. This type of groundbreaking film is what I would like to see more of in porn, as the line between mainstream and pornography becomes consistantly more blurry.
Don't know if that's what you were asking... but those are my thoughts anyway.
Mylon--I expect that not everyone has such a strong sense of fantasy vs reality, especially when your young, you've not had much sexual experience and porn is all you've ever seen on the subject.----
Unfortunately, this is not always true. I live in a town where sex is rampant, the women look amazing (and my female friends don't mind the men either, mind you), easy to get, and experienced on a whim. I don't want to expound on my sexual exploits, and I guess I am a young 27, but if you ask the majority of young people in the town I live in, the amount of sexual expression is outstanding. And from my experience and friends, it is much more like porn than 'Friends.' The myth of youth not being experienced sexually is ridiculous and here come MY sweeping generalization, I believe this comes from a jeolousy of people who are older, stuck in relationships, and never had a youthful time period of sexual promiscuity.
I hate to be the voice of dissent (well not really), but porn can be viewed not only as fantasy, but as reality. What is so wrong with that? It is possible and quite nice to have sex like a diabolic feature; it happens.
Life can mirror porn and be quite nasty and fun. Have you ever been to a swingers club? Have you ever gone to a party where girls are fucking each other on the counters with dildos? The college has a porn movie made on its campus? Girls blow you in bathrooms at bars? You can get laid off the internet in under 30 mins for free? Yes, this is reality. Maybe I live in a strange corner of the universe, but these things are regular occurances in my little villa.
Wait--now I wasn't trying to make any sweeping generalizations. I'm just saying that many people grow up with nothing but various types of pornographic images to teach them about sex. I don't think it's unfair to say that. And as Steph stated in another thread, the practice of sex without shame and the safety of those who participate in it (including sex that mimics what we see in porn) is all that really matters. On the other hand, just because porn intimates that this is the new sexual norm doesn't mean that it actually is.
I'm certainly not knocking your lifestyle--quite the contrary. Good for you! Nor do I mean to insult you in any way. And I also don't mean to say that porn can't teach us some new tricks that might be fun. But I do think that the minute we start viewing today's hardcore porn as the sexual norm, we're asking for trouble in our REAL relatioships with real people. It's akin to saying that all life's troubles can be solved and wrapped up in a nice little bow at the end of a 30 minute sitcom.
Anyway, I don't say this out of jealousy at all. I don't want to go to swingers clubs, or get laid off the internet in 30 minutes flat. I have a wife who loves me and there are no secrets between us. That's what I WANT. I say it because whether our lives mimic porn or not (and if eveyone's agreeable, more power too you that it does), we all should be very careful about putting it in its proper perspective. This is true of not just porn, but of any form of influencial mass entertainment.
I do agree with your statements; I am in a commited monogamous relationship (1 yr and going) and porn is not all that important. It reminds me of a different lifestyle that is fun; not one so taboo or mythical that it is unrealistic.
The original question is not very fair-
'Is porn sex fantasy sex or dumbed-down sex?'
It can also be something else. A question like this already has the answer in its wording...it feels like it is begging to be agreed with as both choices are similar in their negativity. Its like asking, is ''Is performer A (insert any porn goddess name) a whore or just a misunderstood moron?'' Both answers are biased; she might be gods gift to the world. But when phrased such as this, no room is left for dissent without disagreeing with the intial question.
The question in the post was better; whether 'porn is good sex or bad sex'... from my surveys, porn is good sex. Porn is not a representation of a good loving relationship, nor does it teach its viewers' sensitivity, and I would assume it is a very sad world if people base their whole lives on it. But as far as it being a sexual document, its damn honest. Much more than most would admit.
I really like porn... for what it is. Heh. And I probably wouldn't have phrased the initial thread question quite that way either. I also concede that it can certainly be more than fantasy, and more than dumbed down sex--depending on who you are.
I'm sure india didn't intend for the question to make quite the negative presumption that you interpretted though.
Anyway, you make good points, and thanks for responding.
I'm certainly curious as to how india would answer her own question... :)
Well, was it just mischief for me to give the question provocative wording? I guess it's a Rorschach test, kind of. Great answers!
Lots of the time I watch scenes with miserable, half-stiff, propped-up dicks, horrible positions with no pubic contact (but lots of camera exposure), fake moaning, disinterested pretty-people, and no orgasm for her. Anybody can feel smug compared to that. Snooze.
And sometimes there are scenes with people who are hot for each other and incredibly expressive of their *selves*. I see things that express parts of myself, and I realize there are things I'm not fully expressing. I do actually learn things about people and realize things about myself. Rewind, let's see that again!
I have to buy a lot of dvd's to find some juicy stuff mixed with some crappy stuff.
The porn directors aren't too interested in the complexities of sexuality, but some of it comes through anyway, because not all of the directors effectively suppress it. It's almost impossible to hide personality, even with first, brief impressions, and you all know which women in porn are doing it for the money, and which ones would eat you alive. Sometimes you can tell who's a real-life couple. Sometimes I see a hot couple onscreen and want to remove the camera-view limitations so they can really go at it. And let him pop where it feels good.
MLyons - I can't find a review of Fashionistas yet - care to give us more info?
Snooze is right. I'm certainly guilty of liking things most women wouldn't like, but I get bored damn fast with "disinterested pretty-people"...This has happened to me too--and even more so since I've joined ADT and started to talk about it. As other people have stated in other threads, porn and free sexual expression and discussions can work together to have the effect of instigating some explorations with your wife, husband, or partner that you would not have ever thought possible otherwise. At its best, porn has certainly done that for us.
Even when it's mediocre though, I can still find things to like about it. :)
Mediocre porn can hold my attention in an MST3K sort of way, or be fascinating like a train wreck, *for a while*. But if I've got a better dvd on the rack, I'm going to be wistfully contemplating it (even if I've already seen it). Life is too short to watch bad porn if I can find some good porn.
OK... So, if you don't mind, give me a few titles that are among your favorites. I'm curious. We all know how porn tastes vary, but I'm still trying to get a handle on women's tastes, as it still fascinates me that any women like porn at all... My wife likes some, but I can't figure her out either.
Watching porn is like eating a bag of potato crisps. You really enjoy it in the beginning but soon you start to dislike it but still you continue to eat. There's something neurotic about it. It doesn't make me feel either superior or inferior, nor do I want to perform those acts just like that in reality. The relation of porn to real life is that of - yeah right - potato crisps to foie gras.
india wrote: The porn directors aren't too interested in the complexities of sexuality...
Oh, how much more interesting it would be if they tried to be interested in that. Btw India, you're an interesting newcomer to this board.
NOTE: in the middle of this thread, I changed my user name from INDIA to LINDI
Whiplash - thanks! And the potato chip analogy seems apt.
MLyons - I don't think I've seen as much porn as you think I've seen. Most of it was in 1978 when I worked in a porn theater. I remember only one title, all the stuff was so generic. Through the years I saw bits of porn in No-Tel Motels, live sex shows in Amsterdam (with a porn room), etc., but always arriving in the middle of the film and leaving before the end (and never remembering a title). Mostly unmemorable nonsense. Lots of the stuff looked like badly filmed Starsky and Hutch episodes or something, with wholesome-romp sex like Desires Within Young Girls or Candy Stripers 2 (both of which I saw recently). My interest in it was prurient curiosity, a turn-on with a handy partner. It was generally my idea, not his.
I live in a tiny, isolated town with no porn rentals, and have to buy to watch. I just recently discovered that porn could be had for a reasonable price. So I bought a dvd player and 45 porn dvd's. I haven't watched that many (once or twice a week with - I'm going to call him, Sparky). I have to have variety, and watching porn every day would limit other stuff like dancing, bathing together, bondage, and other stuff that takes time. Plus porn can make foreplay less necessary, and who wants to miss half the fun? Plus porn can be unintentionally anti-sexy, blooperish.
Whoops, this is turning into an essay. Well, what comes to mind as good - the last scene, and only the last scene, of Night Trips (I have seen 3 of his dvd's and I don't recommend Andrew Blake). Bad Habits - I love the same Tiffany Minx scene that everyone loves. I just watched Real Big Boobs 2, and the second scene is killer for me - hot! Watch the first scene first, and see the contrast; there are about 5 or 6 things that turn up the heat in the second scene - the sound, the attitudes, the vigor, the connection. It has nothing to do with the physiques of the people.
Wow... now that's a purchase. What... how did you decide what to buy? Hehe. You do know you can rent via mail right... XrentDVD.com et al.I can certainly understand that. That bondage thing, that can take up a lot of time.Yes. Real foreplay is always a plus every now and then.OK. Well, of those you mentioned I have only seen Night Trips. The last scene was a Tori Wells scene. she never really did it for me, so I didn't like that one as much as some others in that movie. I remember the Victoria Paris scene as one of the only Victoria Paris scenes I actually liked. The one that really got me in that one, though, was I think the first scene, with a blonde and a boyish looking guy. I really like that one. I can certainly understand what you mean, though about the attitudes and the connection. That, of course, is the real key. Maybe I'll give a try to some of the others you've seen, to see what you're talking about.
To kind of keep this on topic though, there is porn for me that makes me want to orgasm. And there's porn out there that makes me want to have sex with my wife the minute she walks through the door. I like the latter kind better, as that tends to be the kind with some real heat to it, a seeming rapport between the performers. I can certainly find a place in my life for the former too, though. As far as telling you which porn is which for me... well that's a taller order.
I don't like Blake movies much - they seem sterilized of any character except maybe Blake's. I want to see self-expression, character revealed, people wallowing in their real fantasies. That doesn't require plot, by the way.
The chemistry I'm looking for might not be a 'nice' thing -the people are just bringing each other out in some way.
So I'm not looking for a formulaic movie, I want people being unguarded, non-conforming, and letting the juice out.
lindi wrote: So I'm not looking for a formulaic movie...
What's wrong with porn is that 99,9 % of it is formulaic. It will take a genius to bring some kind of real life into porn. That is to say use his/her own experience and bringing that into porn instead of just copying what other's have already done with some small adjustments or taking it to the extreme.
