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Obviously the industry's decline isn't a new topic, but noticing with rapidly increasing frequency just this year sites that once had regular releases and weeks to months of "upcoming scenes" listed now going much longer spans without a release. Other once-thriving studios have halted new releases altogether. Some of the less common genres/categories of scenes are becoming so rare that it seems hard to sustain memberships from people that are specifically into those things.
Is OF/MV winning the war here? Will studio stuff just become a small boutique deal for the few willing to pay for high-end content?
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 12 2024 : 1:05PM
For me, studio porn is dead as far as the Golden Era is concerned. There will still be studio porn, but I don't see a big buzz anymore. At the same time, OF has not won the war for me either. I see OF as a kind of a DVD - a transitional medium. OF will be destroyed by AI porn in the next few years, just like everything else. I would rather see studio porn as complimentary porn to AI porn than OF.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jul 12 2024 : 1:21PM
Studio porn, OF porn; both halves are making the same "interact with the viewer" type of meme content. The vast majority of it is unsexy at the moment, studio or not.
It kind of needs to die off completely and try again.
It is amazing how these big production companies have screwed up so much.
I feel like they want to invest as little as possible in finding the next big-name stars.
Most of the pornstars on these mainstream sites look the same; mostly young skinny white girls. There seems to be no effort to find the next Lisa Anne, Kendra Lust, Asa Akira, Diamond Jackson etc.
Most of the porn has too much dialogue. These companies seem to hire too many writers who want to act as if they are working in the mainstream film/television industry. This probably has increased the cost of producing porn.
Sadly, at this point if anyone with star potential comes in, they're only there to build their following for OF and gone in short order. If not that, then the pay, the harassment from fans, and the common stories of mistreatment on set run them off.
I think for the most part it's dead, but we'll still see niche kink studio porn that's difficult, if not nearly impossible, for individual performers to pull off in exclusive content on their own sites. There's simply very little reason to shoot regular BG scenes anymore when two pornstars can do it on their own and share in the profits directly. However, niche kink porn -- for example BBCSurprise and Gangbang Creampie series -- is far more difficult to set up as an individual performer. I don't see some of these niche websites and studios going away so long as there are people willing to pay for that kind of content.
(And, to be clear, while one *can* set up a gangbang on their own, the logistics of it are terrible.)
Of course studio porn is not on it's last gasp but it's true that many and I mean a shitload of studios died over the last 15-20 years due in large part to all the tube and torrent site. The ones that managed to survive are not in any danger of closing as long as the few of us who still pay for porn keep paying for it but their profit margin do fluctuate depending on the cost of production VS memberships.
I don't know that OF is such a big deal for porn studios because most girls first foray into porn is working for studios before transitioning to OF or other platforms and I suspect many of them do it in part because there isn't enough work to be had in the mainstream porn industry but most discover that there are simply too many women already on OF for them to make a decent living from only OF and while some of these newbies may be able to get a few fans to join their OF. Most fans won't stay beyond that first month because the content will be crap.
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studrams Deactivated User
409 Posts 7/16
Posted - Jul 12 2024 : 9:24PM
Studios are far from dead, there doesn't appear to be a shortage of girls who're at least willing to try porn. Only a tiny fraction of OF content creators make a living out of it. You could list numerous reasons girls get into porn but an inability to hold down a regular job or being too lazy to hold down a regular job would both be pretty high on the list. Maintaining an OF page that attracts and keeps subscribers requires work, something most girls have an aversion to. It doesn't take a lot of research to discover what else they're doing for money.
The lifeblood of the porn industry is attractive new talent. Women who fit the bill either dabble short term in studio porn or skip it completely for the more lucrative alternative. Hard to see how that changes anytime soon. Last gasp...no, just a slow painful demise.
If I may throw in a few words. I have an Instagram account. Originally I got it years ago to follow musicians and athletes. If you go to the search page there is a matrix of various pictures. There seem to be lots of young attractive women scantily clad, perhaps drooling or their lips in close up like they are kissing, etc. This the basic stuff. Many seem to have Only Fans (or similar) purveyor type sites. I haven't gone further, other then seeing how much they charge. Some are only a few bucks a month. Others are surprisingly (to me) high. Like $20 a month. I can't really judge them, but I suppose they could be syphoning money that could go to the mainstream porn industry. Knowing you're getting somewhat unique might be the appeal. I do have to say some of the girls are very attractive.
^ A lot of the time, the difference between a $5 OF and a $20 OF is that the $5 OF is PPV and the $20 OF is not. PPV meaning you have to pay $5 a month, just to unlock the page so you can buy clips, scenes, pics, etc. It varies. Whereas the $20 OF will unlock everything. So most of the time, the more expensive flat subscriptions end up being more affordable in the long run.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jul 13 2024 : 7:39PM
And sometimes a $20 page is just as useless as a free page; definitely varies by the quality and work ethic of the performer.
There's less and less reason to support these independent fan pages besides special appreciation for certain performers in particular.
Onlyfans used to be hot before the performers all started putting out studio-style content. The videos used to look like sextapes, but now it's 99% the same overacted and meme-ridden shit that the studios are making, though at $20 a month for one video instead of multiple videos, like on studio megasites.
I think the role that credit card companies play in the type of content that studios are allowed to produce is often very understated in threads like this one. But I also agree with a lot of the points made here.
Yep. I quit OF a few years ago. It's not worth it anymore, for how expensive it can get. And how restrictive the platform has gotten. Plus charges on my credit card kept getting flagged. I have a rant in me, but I'll save it, that's for a different thread. That's why I stick to studios. But even some of those, my card doesn't like.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jul 13 2024 : 8:24PM
Meh. I am pretty unmoved by the "credit cards won't let me do pee poop 'non-consent' content" or whatever. Studios and OF-style sites are allowed to make plenty of...other-than-sex stuff.
The real issues are the OF pages with low content output compared to price and studios that can't/don't want to pay the most sexual and talented people to do the on-set stuff regularly.
I wasn't referring to pee, poop and CNC content or anything like that, that's not really my thing. But you can't deny that the credit card companies greatly restrict the kind of content that studios and creators can produce. That's just a fact. That's more of a headache for the producers, though. Not the consumers. And it's certainly not why studios/creators fail. But you'd think Aylo xites like Brazzers, Reality Kings and Trans Angels would be cool. And Kink might ring some alarms. But it's been the other way around for me. I've never had a problem subscribing to Kink. But anything Aylo related instantly gets flagged. That's my personal experience. I don't disagree with you. In fact, your bottom line pretty much hit the nail on the head. The creators that put in the work usually succeed. And the companies that actually invest in their bts production crews and regularly put out a lot of new original content, like Adulttime, usually thrive. Which brings up another interesting question? Will there be any smaller independent studios left, or is everything destined to be absorbed by Gamma or Aylo? I use those two, because they're the two biggest companies that I can think of. Not because I have an axe to grind against either of them. I think that's the bigger question.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 14 2024 : 2:40AM
The CC argument is also nonsense for me. The CCS don't say that there should only be clown porn, that the camera work should be bad, that 50-60 year old directors should put themselves in front of the camera or be allowed to book low budget male talent.....
Brazzers is a crap show because they work according to the minimal principle. Invest as little as possible and hope that enough people without a standard will watch our trash. Many other directors are also simply arrogant. They believe that because they were a big deal 15 years ago, they don't need to develop any further and that it's enough for them to put themselves in every scene.
MOD: Some of you, unsurprisingly, have yet again turned a thread into your own little bitching soapbox. This practice is old, tired, and upsets members who want to have actual discussions here. If you have made such a post, fix it so it actually has to do with the thread. If you don't you'll get a posting suspension. And cease doing this, people are tired of hearing your rant in every thread you can wedge it into.
Those points are valid, but the CC companies did lay down a list of things we are no longer allowed to do. For example, vampires, werewolves and zombies are no longer allowed even for halloween, and even though they are completely fictional things.
No more offering cash for sex so pickup content is drastically altered. And related to this, you are heavily restricted when shooting in public so people and sometimes places, must be blurred. I just had a tube tell me my painstaking blurring of everyone's face wasn't good enough and I should cut out the segment entirely.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 15 2024 : 3:12PM
^The costume thing sounds really weird at first, but do both points actually affect many studios? Most of the scenes are shot in traditional style and on private property.
The werewolf and vampire stuff is just a small example, merely to illustrate how far-reaching the restrictions are. The full list has effects on many studios. It leads to porn becoming more vanilla or same-y, since we are restricted on what we can produce. Everyone has to do the same thing.
If everyone has to shoot indoors, it can get very hard to differentiate. It's not like a mainstream movie with dialogue and story. And our story options are limited. For example, we can't really have someone dressed as a cop because that is impersonating an officer and that's illegal (even though this is fictional and tv shows do it all the time, we somehow are held to a different standard). Teacher-student relationships also on iffy ground because of the power dynamic and a girl might not be able to fuck for grades. It's really petty little things like this. And the list is not final. It's a moving target. I've followed the rules only for new ones to come back at me, and my porn is about casting girls in yoga pants. Imagine a studio like RK or bangbros where it is reality-style.
It's gotta be the piracy, because I don't believe for a second that the decrease of studio porn reflects the amount of viewers of their content. Most people still watch studio porn, they're just not paying for the product anymore while the studio's costs are increasing and profit is going down.
Piracy isn't as big of a problem as it was before. There's fewer financial incentives. For example, if you are a pirate porn tube, you used to make money selling cams and dating. But cams and dating companies own studios now, so they won't advertise on your pirate tube.
Porn is really analogous to what happened with the music industry: it's become a commodity. The barrier to entry is low and there is so much content that keeps increasing. Great-quality 4k porn was available over 10 years ago, so that's now over 10 years worth, not to mention HD before that.
Mainstream TV is going through a similar process. Think about how many TV shows there are now. There are no more billionaire TV producers, or FRIENDS who can be on one show and get set for life. Streaming has upended the business model. And even studio streaming such as netflix and disney, is battling against youtube and tiktok where people are making entertaining videos that people watch for hours per day
I think studio porn, much like mainstream TV/Film is going through a bit of a "figuring out what we're going to be" phase. Though to be fair, it's a LOT more pronounced in the porn world since a lot of the biggest stars have moved more into their own OF brands. At the moment, it seems like studio porn continues to exist as a platform for new stars to make a big splash. Then quickly pivot to OF once they achieve enough visibility to cultivate a decent subscriber base. A few of the more prominent stars (like Romi Rain) have talked about OF allows them the freedom to be very picky about which studio scenes they want to shoot. Which is great for them, even though it does mean fewer bona fide stars churning out a significant number of studio scenes.
There are some positive signs though. Performers now have the means to start up their own niche production outfits if they want, which can be a worthwhile thing. Electra Rayne started her own lesbian site (Queer Crush). Which is a no frills, gonzo site that's all filmed out of 1 location. It's only been operating for one year and she mentioned recently that much to her surprise, the sites' growth exceeded her expectations and they've already started to churn a slight profit in that short period of time.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jul 16 2024 : 4:45AM
I'm not super business guy, but seems like the best way forward right now for someone trying to produce profitable porn is find a niche, do it extremely well to gather a super-loyal baseline based on that niche, don't overextend/over-spend trying to do a lot of extra that doesn't move the needle dramatically further than your usual content output would.
As sad as the message is here, I have to give you credit for giving me a chuckle. As I've said before, and I know I'm not alone in this sentiment, we consumers really appreciate your view as someone inside the business.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 16 2024 : 2:56PM
Of course, it won't disappear completely. But you can tell that less is being invested, that less effort is being made and that less is being filmed. And don't forget, the final boss is still waiting... AI.
As a G/G fan, I am concerned that most sites (save for a few "mega sites") are cutting back on their production. Many sites used to have at least one update a week, and now several are either defunct or have a biweekly release schedule.
I'm not here to hate OF, but visually, nothing comes close to well-produced studio content. Like others, I'm hoping some people decide to launch sites focused on particular niches, ideally charging a premium for several updates a week. After commodification typically comes "higher end" or "luxury," which we have yet to see in Studio Porn (there are glimpses, but nothing definitive and certainly not in G/G).
Question for Everyone: "What would a "luxury" studio experience look like for you, and what would you be willing to pay for it? It doesn't have to be genre-specific; I want to get a sense of what people would pay big bucks for, providing it covers all of their porn needs (i.e., one "perfect" subscription instead of many).
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 17 2024 : 6:21AM
However, others will probably gain from this. Service providers who make computing power available to private persons. I don't think porn studios will benefit from AI at all.
I agree with many members about onlyfans and studio costs But I want to add something else The political opinions of some stars and directors are the reason for what is happening to the industry. Recently, there have been some stars and directors who do not want to work with anyone whose political opinion they disagree with them. I was blocked from some stars because I asked them when they would work with such and such star . But after a while in OF , star (Without mentioning a name) responded to me and told me, "I do not want to work with this star because she is considered an enemy because of her political opinions.". I hate politics so much .
HAHAHAHAHA. Scientology is so thankful for modern times, because their stuff looks sane by comparison to all the misinformation going around with regular people.
In the last 3 years I have worked with people who vehemently believe: - the earth is flat - vaccines causes autism and other ailments - Michelle Obama is a man named Michael Obama - The US election was stolen - Lizard people rule us
I hate this nonsense with a passion, but I don't hate them for their beliefs and they don't hate me for not believing in theirs, so we get along. Only takes one side to make it an issue.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 19 2024 : 2:37AM
Lets be honest - people in the biz are flesh and blood, but porn is fake too. And technology is developing at breakneck speed. AI images are almost indistinguishable from real ones and the same will apply to videos in a few years' time. And as soon as people can realize their own fantasy, their own preferences and desires - they won't give a shit if the girl moaning there isn't real ..... because these days it's not real either.
^Yeah I don't think so. It's an instant boner killer no matter how real it looks and it will remain that way for people who aren't into fake stuff. Which is the vast majority of consumers.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 19 2024 : 3:46PM
^You can't imagine what a huge high-selling market hentai and all that stuff is. It generates profits that the porn industry dreams of. And the magic word with AI is not how real it looks, but that you can use your imagination. You are no longer dependent on someone else's imagination. That will make AI porn explode.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 19 2024 : 4:24PM
You feed a program with prompts. And according to these, it creates a picture, for example. And this program learns with every attempt. And if you spend a little time with it, it creates something just like you wanted. And don't forget that this technology is still in its early stages. And yet, even as a beginner, you can already do an incredible stuff with it.
I am very sure that in 5 years you will be able to generate a 30 minute scene with simple commands without any problems.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 24 2024 : 6:06PM
There are rumors/speculations in their forum that Giorgio Grandi has given up. It would be shocking if two of the biggest European studios were to throw in the towel within a few years.
A "Luxury" porn subscription for me, would have to focus on production values, quality of performers, performers that aren't porn mainstays and sex thats actually "sexy" and "arousing" too watch. I've been watching alot of vintage softcore(specifically the good stuff from the 80s/90s)and one thing about good softcore is that, it knew how to create a mood and focus on sensually arousing the watcher, not creating authentic sex on screen. Authenticity in porn is a little overrated, when no one really knows how to shoot a truly visually appealing scene, while maintaining sexual authenticity.
I've been dreaming of Playboy getting their shit together, and carving that "luxury" niche, I wouldn't hold my breath though. Those 90s Playboy videos/shows(at their best)knew how to focus on women's bodies, and what makes a woman sexy/horny, not just a total piece of meat(like alot of modern porn).
Back in the mid '80s to early '90s, during the period you're talking about when Playboy's first ventures into home video started tanking, not everyone had cable. There were PPV broadcast channels that scrambled their signals at night, and you'd pay to use the descrambler. I remember two channels, one called VEU and the other N1. After 1 am or so, VEU would play softcore porn, and much of it was like what you described. They'd work on setting up entertaining story lines, the lighting would be professional and well thought-out, and the women would range from decent to gorgeous. There would be this great build-up to the sex scenes, the girl would finally remove her bra or bikini top, and there would be this angelic, ethereal close-up of her tits. And they'd be absolutely beautiful, like God intended.
Then the sex would start, and immediately the camera and the editor would scramble to find positions where the couple could get together without revealing their genitals, and giving away that they weren't really copulating. Framing would go all over the place. We'd spend several seconds on belly buttons. Elbows, shoulders, ear lobes - nice body parts, mind you, but well away from where the action should be, and where on further reflection it actually wasn't to begin with. And the mood would be completely lost. Now, you have to give enormous credit to the hard-working professionals in this business whose job it was to make this scene look enough like sex to get some viewers off, but not too much like sex to trip the censors and get the FCC's lawyers on the phone. This had to have been really hard work. God forbid a frame should reveal the tip of someone's clitoris.
So what was going on over on N1? There was no softcore porn on N1 at all, not even nudity. What N1 did have was swimsuit models in photo shoots and in amateur beauty competitions. There were one or two wet T-shirt contests, but no nipples, no pubic hair, and not even the pretense of sex. Hours upon hours with no males in the frame whatsoever. I found myself fascinated by N1 because you could watch these women walk, pose, move. And the camera, which on occasion was operated by a guy who had just been told where the shutter button was, would zoom in on the models' tits and butts, and hang there for several seconds. There's no way any single N1 production cost as much as a tenth of what the producers of softcore movies on VEU had spent. They sometimes went to a bar out in the boondocks to watch women in bikinis dance on stage. But damn if it wasn't a hundred times sexier.
I think the real question here, behind the question Woof originally posted, is whether there's enough payoff for great or even decent cinema artists to produce sex scenes for which a respectable number of respectable people would handsomely pay. If you do invest the effort that, say, Digital Playground expends in some of its cinematic parodies, in Every Single Production You Do, can the porn market sustain that effort? I don't think you have to be an economist to predict, no, probably not. A girl can start her own production facility in her bedroom (often without her parents' permission), and there's where folks' disposable income ends up.
Why? The answer lies in that phrase you used, SexuallySexy99, "sexual authenticity." It takes real effort for anyone to produce a scene that looks and feels like the best real sex you've ever had. But I don't think that's where the disposable income is headed today. Viewers are very happy watching a girl masturbating in her own bed, using her phone mounted on a tripod. No, it doesn't look or feel like the best real sex you've ever had, but it doesn't have to. Nearly all of the world's porn looks nothing like your honeymoon. Which ends up being fine, because sometimes we just want the camera to stay on the girl's ass for awhile.
N1 was onto something: Authenticity is not the premium most folks are looking for. In a way, it's the fact that we're looking at this many bouncing, twerking butts at all, that makes the whole experience quite satisfying in its non-authenticity. We meet a girl, and within 60 seconds, we're up-close on the plug in her ass. Not like anything I've ever experienced on the street or at work or even in a singles bar. And the scene doesn't need a cinematographer - frankly, if it had one, we wouldn't notice.
Does this mean the answer to Woof's question is an emphatic "No?" No. I think it means producers continue to change their formulas and their business models to adapt to new circumstances. Some need to find the premium in their products and shine a blinding halogen spotlight on them. I think MILFY is onto something with its focus on women we've loved for decades and whose bodies are still scorching. But not every studio can occupy MILFY's lane, so the long-term solution involves finding a new way to monetize the product we're still consuming (at a record pace, mind you) without commoditizing it.
At the end of the day, Porn as an entertainment medium is a "cheap thrill", and the rise of Onlyfans only make that idea even clearer. I love some of the 80s and 90s softcore because it was well produced, but alot of it also believed in fantasy, the best softcore feels like a fantasy. So much of Porn can be classified as "un-sexy" but alot of people just want that fix, they don't care if it's shot on a broken Iphone or professional camera.
I just think the dream is to have a studio that actually wants to excite/arouse the viewers actual curiosity, and not play in too the "cheap thrill" mindset of so many porn studios. Modern porn is just unimaginative, and in many ways boring, and I think doubling down on hardcore porn is nowhere near the answer.
I don't know that I would call AI generated still images wood killer because I don't know that most porn fans get stimulated from looking at still images regardless that they star real people or the CGI kind. What I believe is that one day someone will create an all CGI porn video using AI and very few people will have a problem with the finish product. Right now cost is the main reason why CGI is not an option for porn but that won't always be an issue.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jul 27 2024 : 2:59AM
Giorgio Grandi himself has now declared in the LP/AV Forum that he has stopped shooting.
I'm not the biggest circus fan and I don't need 10 guys in every scene. But I'm also not a fan of the generic US scenes where a girl I don't know has sex with a boring average Joe. So GONZO/GG was an alternative for me.... which is no longer there.
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Miss Munchausen Deactivated User
In the Realm of the Senses 323 Posts 6/24
Posted - Jul 27 2024 : 3:51AM
^ Wait Are you saying that LP/AV is dead? Or are there other directors who will still keep producing content for them?
Big Wet Asses 34 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Jul 12 2024 : 11:53AM
