"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 21 2009 : 6:17PM
In an industry wherein mostly heterosexual men hire attractive women that have decided to use sex as a means for advancement, is it unethical for a producer/agent to make a hiring decision based upon whether the "talent is willing to have sex with him". Is it even acceptable for the producer/agent ect, etc, to even broach the issue. Ask her out? If it is unacceptable, why? Doesnt he have the right to hire whomever he wants. Is it acceptable to "audition" new talent. If not, why? If it is the ability to have sex with a stranger on camera that determines qualification for this business, how does a producer determine those qualification with a newby without having her have sex with at least someone on camera. If you say that you believe that as long as the quid pro quo is consensul, how would you feel if someone you didnt want to have sex with required that you do in order for you to get the job. Is it ethical or acceptable for talent to seek out a personal relationship with the producer. What exactly are the rules for negotiating personal relationships within this highly sexualized work place, when members of this industry are to a large extent ostrisized from mainstream society?
Is it unethical? I would say yes. But people have different standards, you'll never get everyone to agree on this. Yet if you ask most people in a poll, my guess is they'd probably object to the idea of the casting couch. People are free to have consensual sex with whoever they want, but when you apply for a job there are supposed to be certain standards (which is why there are rules against racial and gender discriminations for example). The argument that the director is supposed to test "the goods" just doesn't hold up when it comes to demanding intimate actions (regardless of the fact that the job is to fuck in camera). If he wanted to watch her have sex with an actor, that would be ok considering the nature of the job, but when he forces her to fuck himself its exploitive and not professional. Edited by - JohnW on 4/21/2009 6:32:00 PM
^^ A lot of mainstream films show all kinds of unethical behavior too. That's what that gore and all the violence is all about. But showing unethical behavior on film doesn't necessarily make the film itself unethical. As long as the viewer and the participants know that it's a fantasy and not real. Then showing unethical behavior in a fantasy is perfectly acceptable not only in porn but in any type of media. At least that's how it is in the West. Perhaps in some Muslim countries people are against showing unethical behavior even in fantasies.
If you are talking about California... then there is more than just an ethic problem with a "casting couch" system, there are legal problems with it as well. Just because the industry is a highly sexual industry doesn't mean that common law and statutory law pertaining to a proper employer-employee relationship does not apply. The industry is a recognized and legally protected industry in California, and all the same laws that regulate non-industry hiring policies apply to the adult entertainment industry. If someone decides to do something consensual sexually in order to get a leg up on her competition then the industry does not matter. The issue, if brought forth in a lawsuit, would be the same. He said vs. she said. That is the basis for many lawsuits and you would have to look to the evidence. Usually, truly consensual sex is not problematic in the workplace. It is when the sex is used as a bargaining chip or means of control, then the problems start. John W is right on with his analysis.... Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com
I think having a stained couch or chair in the employees only back area of a retail store is unethical, especially when nobody replaces it with a new chair and employees have to keep sitting on it even though we all suspect sex was had on said chair. I mean, some people refuse to face reality and they insist it's just a coffee stain, but I'm not buying that bullshit, especially knowing as I do that the manager recently went through a divorce and the assistant manager is hot and they get along great, often talking in low conspiratorial tones with each other and laughing as they walk off together into the sunset. Now as for getting porn work by sleazing the director, of course that's unethical of the director, but let's not forget that it's also hot. There's entire workplace websites about the casting couch concept. Sure, this defense might not stand up in court: "But your honor, it was so hot!" But there's also a Brazzers scene where a court room breaks out into an orgy. So I don't know whether to trust lawyers on this topic.
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 26 2009 : 9:39AM
I agree that a director, producer using the job as leverage is unprofessional. Except that we know that it happens. And once it happens, you have the scenario wherein the woman is ok with it. If she is ok with it, is that acceptable? In the Brothel industry Dennis Hof is known to have had several of his workers be girlfriends. He has also said that there are "advantages" to being his girfriend. They tend tend to be some the biggest money makers; "Brooke Taylor", Sunset Thomas. My question is, is it fair to the other girls that this girl hgets as an advantage because she is fucking the boss.
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 26 2009 : 9:45AM
I should have been clearer, but Im not refering to a depiction, but an actual situation wherein the boss approaches a worker - or vice versa - about a sexual encounter. What are the rules?
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 26 2009 : 9:56AM
Thanks Michael, Heres another question. In the military there is a notion called fraternization. The idea being that any relationship between an officer and enlisted person would be considered inappropriate as it would offer the appearance of impropriety. Obviously this extends to platonic friendship. With regard to porn. The existance of a relationship between the the boss and a worker, or lets say an agent and a girl, might offend the other girls at the agency. Do you think such a scenario would be problematic legally or ethically. Edited by - simmond on 4/27/2009 9:57:02 AM
As for agents, its a different relationship legally. I have seen your example happen, where the agent has one of his clients as his GF and it does bother the other women in the agency, especially if the GF gets more work or better work. The real issue is not whether it is legal, ethical or moral to offer an advantage to someone in exchange for sexual favors, the issue is using the inequality of a relationship to extract sex from an unwilling partner. There will always be people willing to go the "extra mile" for the job -- mainstream or porn. That will never be stopped. Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com
meh, if they are uncomfortable showing the director first hand what they can do... they're in the wrong business. This is not your typical job, I think the comparisons really require that sex is a taboo in the industry in question... which is why it's such a big deal in other jobs, it IS taboo in those other jobs. It's outrageous in another job. But this is porn and maybe the director doesn't want to waste his time on girls who are "picky" or say "no", these are not good traits in this business IMO. And if that's how they are.... don't they belong with say "vivid" instead of trying out for the likes of mike john, or rodney moore, or max hardcore, etc. In any job the interviewer might say, "ok, show me how you can do x, y, or z" that pertains to the job. Having Sex with strangers IS THE JOB... so I don't see the big deal and I don't see how a lot of the arguments above hold water.
^I disagree. Having sex with strangers as a part of the entertainment of adults is quite different than having sex with a stranger to get a job. If there is a need for an "audition" of that sort, it should be with other actors / actresses and be legitimate--not just some director getting his rocks off. By this logic, it would be fine for the director to bring in ANYONE for an actress to have sex with to show that she will "have sex with strangers". I don't buy into it.
Companies can do a test shoot... I know of one that just did one to try out a brand new girl that has never shot before. The test wasnt with the producer/director either... it was with other talent. Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 9:54AM
Playing devils advocate. If I know that girl A is willing to have sex with virtually any male. Lets say any male between 18 and 70. Any race. Any weight under 300 pounds. And girl B will only have sex with guys she is somewhat attracted to. Isn't girl A a much safer investment? If I'm a producer, and I'm considering offering one of these girls a contract. Which girl is likely to fulfill that contract? Which girl can I get more work for if I am an agent? Lets say a producer is willing to provide talent for her to audition with. The talent is not her type. What should the producer do? Again does girl B willingness to have sex with the agent or producer indicate that she is more ambitious? On the other side. A producer is going to make tens of thousands dollars based on this attractive women being willing to have sex on camera. Is he entitled to get laid too? Also, lets say the producer finds the right star for that part. She is willing to have sex on camera but will not have sex him. It cant be prudent for him to be willing to lose that star because she wont suck his dick? Here is another question. Agent or women in an agency has a genuine interest in pursuing a personal relationship. Does one of them have to leave the agency? Edited by - simmond on 4/27/2009 10:03:08 AM
Let's not forget that a lot of the producers are amateurs. Many of them do not have the money to hire "male talent" to do something he could do himself. I personally don't care what the guy looks like because my eyes are on the girl. As a matter of fact i think it's much hotter for the girl to have sex with non actors. The movies today are getting pretty boring.
I guess it depends how you look at it. It might not be much different than applying for a regular job where they might require you to demonstrate your skills before hiring you. If a girl is bragging that she was the best cocksucker in highschool then maybe having her prove that in a mini blowbang isn't a bad idea for.
In addition to being unethical, the casting couch unnecessarily endangers our health and safety. I wrote about this in a blog entry titled "Porn 'Casting Couch' and Health Risks" here: https://veganvixentessa.blogspot.com/2022/07/porn-casting-couch-and-health-risks.html Was thinking about starting a thread on this topic, but then found this thread from years ago when I did a keyword search.
It has been months since I posted on this thread and have no idea why, but I woke up this morning and thought of something else. From my experience, the casting couch was called an "audition" and agents, directors, and producers who use the casting couch obviously don't call it that. This is also one of the arguments to defend the casting couch "well, they need to see that the person can perform before they cast them." However, if the performer had already done videos that are published, they can watch those videos. After all, so much is available online. If this is a new performer who has never done a scene, they still don't have to resort to the casting couch. Another option is instead of having her perform alone with a guy in the case of heterosexual porn, they can include her in a threesome or group scene where there is at least one experienced female performer so that if the newbie doesn't perform well by their standards or "freezes up," then the more experienced woman can take over and lead the scene.
Also, in any business, people take chances when hiring somebody new. If the person doesn't work out, then they can just not offer them any more scenes; but they still need to pay them for their work.
