I hope DAPs are phased out forever! Long live one-one-one anal sex!!

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Edited by - kami on 3/22/2004 9:39:36 AM

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Ron

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Thanks Kami for your answer! Now I really do wonder, wheter it´s more of a porn stud problem...

(porn studs like Steve Holmes etc are kindly asked to write in here, too)

Edited by - Shameless on 3/22/2004 1:25:44 PM

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In general we have a problem with not enough good guys in Gonzo. It benefits me as a performer because it keeps me busy and we guys could raise our prices quite a bit. But I suffer when I shoot my own lines.

A Gonzo which I like to shoot needs a guy who can lead the girl like a dancer. In features you can cut hundred times and the director tell you what to do.

Steve Holmes

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Very interesting and very surprising news those are to me! Never had I though this was the problem. Really not!

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So much for that decision, eh?

Anyway, not to impugn DAPs, I just worry that calling it a "stud's problem" for the "lack of DAPs" is a bit of a slippery slope. Steve makes a good point, to be sure, and I whole heartedly agree with his "lead like a dancer" simile. On the other hand, I can't really blame the guys for 1) having a hard time getting hard when their dick is going to be sharing space with that of another guy, and 2) having some empathy for the pain the girl is going to go through.

I mean, if all parties are willing, great. Have a ball. And I understand the need to fulfill the promises and the get-it-in-the-can professionalism that's required. Mason has mentioned this problem in the past--a lack of guys who are willing to walk that crazy edge, and I appreciate the problem.

On the other hand, I guess I have a hard time getting too upset about a guy who can't get hard because it doesn't turn him on to stretch a girl's asshole to its limits.

I don't know. Just an opinion, and as a wise fellow ADTer recently reminded me. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.

Edited by - MLyons on 3/22/2004 2:12:43 PM

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FWIW, I am in the "don't give a shit" camp. I don't need to see a DAP, but I don't mind if there is one either, on condition that it doesn't make the scene worse for me.




skronker said:
"I don't like watching car-wreck porn."
(David Cronenberg??)

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I think it is fine not to like DAP or not to care for it, but trying to make poor victims of girls wanting to do DAPs because of this seems over the top to me.

If more girls are ready to do DAP, than scenes can be shot, than there is a <lack of DAP-work> for these girls. The lack does not disappear if we all get converted to porn fans not liking DAP.
Coincidentially, for me as an ardent DAP-fan, the lack of DAP-work for the girls willing to do it, is a lack of DAPs for me to watch, too. But that´s pure coincidence here.

Besides, I did not intend this to become a pro- and anti-DAP maifest, but to explore the reasons for Renee Porneros <secret diary> entry.

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I was simply empathizing with those guys who aren't into it, or don't want to do it for whatever reason. Just because the girls might want it (whether for pay, pleasure or both) doesn't necessarily mean that every porn stud should without question be able to accomodate her by getting wood. I suppose in your world of pure capitalism it might. "Pay them more!" I already hear you saying. I just think there's more to life, and I'd like to THINK that there's a little more to porn than that. But then again, I probably have an overdeveloped sense of optimism--I admit it.

If we're talking about "giving the girls what they want", why not afford the guys the same courtesy--at least a LITTLE bit.

Like I said, when it happens, great! Fabulous. DAP fans rejoice. I don't have any problem with that.

The weird thing is that in terms of your question, I suppose I'm agreeing with you. I'm sure to some degree it IS the guys who prevent the act from happening, but MY response to that axiom is, "I can't really blame them."

Am I not allowed to say that?

Edited by - MLyons on 3/22/2004 8:31:52 PM

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I know that it is very hard for a stud to stay hard in this circumstances. Money wont help here, no matter how capitalist you are. Body and mind training is the only thing that helps.

But to talk about pain, as you did, I really do find over the top. About the only pain here might be to find the capable male talents for his willing porn girl by porn director.

Edited by - Shameless on 3/23/2004 4:22:16 AM

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Ultimately though, I'm not talking about the girl here, I'm talking about the man's perceptions. Is it such a freakin' tragedy that some of these men might not want to subject these girls to this regardless of whether or not the girls are willing?

Ehh... I'm rambling, and what the fuck do I know anyway? All I can do is put myself in some of these guys' positions. Hell, even my wife would probably be scolding me for this if I were a porn stud--"You're being overprotective! Just let it go and let the woman do what she wants!" and heck she'd probably be right. But I'm not wired that way. It's called empathy and compassion and I definitely have an overdeveloped sense of it--but by all means let's strip all those cumbersome feelings from porn entirely and turn guys into robots, and reorganize porn's pay structure so that the women will all want to do DAPs all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there are the Steve Holmes, and the Wesley Pipes who don't have my own hangups. It makes for much better porn.

All in all, this is probably a pointless discussion for me to be involved in. Mason's probably shaking her head at me right now. The thing is, I just want to lend a voice to the quiet lurkers who might be too shy to come out and disagree with some of your precepts themselves. :)

I'll bow out of your discussion now--which is I'm sure what you want. I think I've spewed enough of my own brand of "arm-chair-expert" BS for one thread. :)

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The next one sucked, cause I didn't feel comfortable. It was my last shoot before I went back to Austria after 3 months of shooting, and my pussy was already sore and so was my ass...

After that one, all the other DAPs went well. I don't enjoy it as much as DPs, but I still like doing it. My next DAP is planned for the upcoming Sunday, again my last shoot before I leave. I am very excited about it and hope it works...

Anyway, I am not mad at the guys, if they are not able to do the DAP, because I know it's kinda though for them. But if I got booked for it, I just wanna do it. So the directors should just make sure, that they get the right guys for it. Besides that, I also lose the money, because they just give you the rate for the actual scene you did.

_________
yours
Renee

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No fair for a talent to get less pay because someone else cannot perform.

Ron

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DAP was just a novelty back when studio's like Zane did it in the 90's. For me that novelty wore off after just the 2nd movie in the genre as I realized that it doesn't look as good as single-dick CGA or RCGA and it's very contrived because the guys can't even really fuck for real and/or enjoy it.

I'm amazed that some studios still think it's so great.

I'm OK with DPs, but DAP & DPP are just plain gay ;-)

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That´s totally unfair, IMO.

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Also: Is there any chance your blackonblondes-DAP will be released on dvd?

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I have no idea, if my blackonblondes scene will ever be released on DVD. As far as I know they only shoot for their website(s). But you could ask them... :-)

_______
yours
Renee

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