This never happened on my set, I would never continue a scene with talent feeling uncomfortable. I do have other producers that shoot for my company, but I could not imagine this happening on their sets either. I have never witnessed anything inappropriate on set when booking James. I personally do not believe this person, who's first post is this on ADT. I am very concerned about the allegations that came out however.
Long time lurker here but very rarely do I post. It's been years in Fact since my last login. I worked in the industry for a short time and I thought I would chime in here with my 2 cents. The OP ( who I am fairly sure I know who it is ) is in my opinion telling the truth. If I am right this performer confided in a writer / blogger / reviewer with a very popular adult website who I am not sure I can name here after an inquisition by that writer about why she ( the actress ) departed the industry. This had to be around 2011 give or take but I had first hand recounts from this person ( the well respected writer ) who is hands down reputable beyond measure. Funny how it didn't seem so big of a deal back then but now taking into account what others have to say a bigger picture begins to form. Jules and Mike you two solidify the reason things like this are so hard for female performers to come forth. You take this "bro's before hoes" stance that makes the female secondary and her word to be questioned just because. Jules Jordan are you present at all times? Do you know what goes on on each set and each shoot? Just asking. Maybe the OP has scenes or sets mixed up? Who knows. All I can say is coming out calling someone a liar or a rapist by that matter - without knowing all facts is absurd. This goes both ways and for all parties. Edited by - skx23 on 12/1/2015 10:41:05 PM Edited by - skx23 on 12/1/2015 10:49:48 PM
I don't know if James is a rapist, a serial killer or a Scientologist. I do know that it's a very slippery slope to take the statement of an anonymous person on a website as fact. I know EXACTLY what happens on my sets and I have never in 10 years had an issue with James Deen. That is not to imply that anyone is lying or fabricating or exaggerating. I'm simply stating my personal experience. If the allegations are true, he should be punished accordingly. This isn't about James Deen. It's about due process.
^^ I didn't read their posts as taking any side in the Stoya, Deen story. But rather as being doubtful of the validity of a anonymous first time poster on an internet porn message board. How many fake or downright trolling accounts have been weeded out of the board over the years? Edited by - Jackie Treehorn on 12/1/2015 11:21:16 PM
Absolutely! By that same measure to come out and call their statement bullshit without knowing the facts is equally as unfair. We don't know what or how any one specific person deals with their venting, rants, or whatever.
People who have claimed more serious allegations have not posted anonymously, I would expect someone with such claims should be comfortable saying who they are.
What a load of garbage that is completely ignorant of the personal trauma that sexual assault victims go through. I'm not saying anonymous posts should be taken seriously, but this sentiment is a disgrace.
Well Robin, this happens to be an anonymous post on ADT... I am not making light of sexual assault victims....this is a person that claims to be victimized by porn posting on a porn dvd message board. Once again, I am concerned by the claims and am not siding with anyone on this topic.
demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars 105 Posts 6/04
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 11:54PM
It's possible that this could be a made up story. It also could be a mixture of things that happened and false memory. If this was a Jules Jordan shoot, it could be that James Deen grabbed the woman's neck while Jules was not around (before filming started). She could be remembering wrong that the neck grabbing continued while the scene was being made. A woman's neck being grabbed during a sex scene is more likely to happen during a sex scene for Kink. I don't remember ever seeing a Jules Jordan sex scene in which a guy forcefully grabbed a woman's neck. As far as sex scenes that James Deen did for Jules Jordan, many of the women he had sex with tended to be women who did a bunch of sex scenes for porn companies. Jules uses many of the same actresses and actors over and over again. The woman says that before her sex scene with James Deen for Jules Jordan Video, she had "less than 5 shoots to my name." Mika Kim had 9 performer credits including Trained Teens 4 (she has sex with Criss Strokes and James Deen). The woman says "I quit porn very shortly afterwords," this could describe Mika since she only did a few movies after working for Jules Jordan. I do notice that Mike smiles at times during the sex scene. The scene could be edited of negative things that occured but from what I can see, it does not look like a woman being victimized. The production date for Trained Teens 4 is June 9th of 2011, skx23 says the scene "had to be around 2011 give or take." I have never read about a x-rated actress complaining about working for Jules Jordan. Many actresses have worked for Jules Jordan multiple times. I believe that James Deen has a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde personality and that Jules saw the Dr Jekyll part of his Deen's personality when he directed him.
You were so disappointed that the director himself easily debunked this 'story', I can tell. It's not convenient during this mob mentality that's going on against James Deen right now.
Jamie, the poster claims to have told the director about neck grabbing, this would never be "ok" on our sets, especially mine. We are never abusive or allow abuse on set.
demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars 105 Posts 6/04
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 12:26AM
One of the things I wrote was "a mixture of things that happened and false memory." An example of a false memory could be her claiming that she "told the director about neck grabbing."
Just out of curiosity Jules Jordan is neck grabbing a definitive no-no on your sets? I only ask because I recall a scene of yours where Ramon couldn't keep his hands off the neck of a brunette performer who I cannot recall the name of. Edited by - skx23 on 12/2/2015 12:38:15 AM
You have no idea what you are talking about. I'm saying that people it's a disgrace to suggest that people who have been through a traumatic experience should be obligated to reveal their names. That notion absolutely is ignorant of the trauma of sexual assault. Are you completely ignorant of the whole issue of naming victims in public in high profile cases or are you just dumb?
^ Such claims on a message board by an anonymous poster are below worthless. Unless that person at least contacted the admin or owner of the board and at least verified their identity to them, I don't even feel like such posts should even be allowed. I could jump onto a proxy server right now, create a new account and make bullshit claims about Deen, Stoya or anyone in the industry. At least with anonymous sources in news articles, the writer of the article has verified the person's identity but just doesn't reveal it to anyone.
^Exactly. Robinwood completely misses the point. Can't think for one second without his emotions only. Like I said people who lash out against JulesJordan rightfully putting blatant lies and myths to rest are simply angry because another potential red card that could have been handed out to James Deen failed, and it goes against the mob mentality.
RobinWood wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about. I'm saying that people it's a disgrace to suggest that people who have been through a traumatic experience should be obligated to reveal their names. That notion absolutely is ignorant of the trauma of sexual assault. Are you completely ignorant of the whole issue of naming victims in public in high profile cases or are you just dumb? [/quote] I can't recall or even imagine a scenario where a female performer spoke out against throat contact/choking and one of us allowing it to continue. if anything we'd cancel the scene if we thought either party (male or female) was overreacting just to play it safe. that's the power of killing scenes, it gives the director/shooter the ability to see what he has in going on in front of him ISN'T working and not worth wasting his production money on. now I'll ask this; if she's no longer in porno then what's the big deal w/her revealing her stage name? does she have plans on returning should she see more 'financial troubles'? we just want truth, nothing more. right now it's REAL easy to play 'kick the dog' w/James Deen so unless I have some names/facts to work with, claims like this are going to sound hollow to me. now as per personal experience w/James on set; sure he'd play rough sometimes, but we never asked for that so we rarely got it. typically any rough stuff was w/gals he already had a history with and not newbies. this whole situation is unfortunate for EVERYONE in porno because of how quickly just one twitter blast basically shut someone's career down in a matter of hours w/still no actual evidence or formal charges. that's what's especially troubling since if this is nothing more than character assassination, it's worked perfectly. lates, von S.
I can't recall or even imagine a scenario where a female performer spoke out against throat contact/choking and one of us allowing it to continue. if anything we'd cancel the scene if we thought either party (male or female) was overreacting just to play it safe. that's the power of killing scenes, it gives the director/shooter the ability to see what he has in going on in front of him ISN'T working and not worth wasting his production money on. now I'll ask this; if she's no longer in porno then what's the big deal w/her revealing her stage name? does she have plans on returning should she see more 'financial troubles'? we just want truth, nothing more. right now it's REAL easy to play 'kick the dog' w/James Deen so unless I have some names/facts to work with, claims like this are going to sound hollow to me. now as per personal experience w/James on set; sure he'd play rough sometimes, but we never asked for that so we rarely got it. typically any rough stuff was w/gals he already had a history with and not newbies. this whole situation is unfortunate for EVERYONE in porno because of how quickly just one twitter blast basically shut someone's career down in a matter of hours w/still no actual evidence or formal charges. that's what's especially troubling since if this is nothing more than character assassination, it's worked perfectly. lates, von S.
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Swine, Perhaps op does not want her name / face in the media? Who knows. Now say it's 100 false.. To be fair it wasn't so much Stoya's single tweet that shut down anyones career. It was more of a snowball that began to roll picking up mass. With things like Joanna Angel saying - He is the worst person I have literally ever Met - He tries to break women. Etc Tori Lux Saying - he pinned me to a mattress and hit me in the face several times... ALL WHILE ON SOMEONE'S SET Ashley fires saying - he shoved his erection into my rear end while i was in the bathroom and without my consent..etc So it's a bit more complicated than just saying Stoya did ALL of this I worked at pxp/rld when I think you were shooting there VS can you imagine some of the big name guys ( stefano, strong, iron, holmes, etc ) acting with such abandon as it appears this guy acted with. Would you have presented yourself in any way similar? At the end of the day it is a job and no one person is above that base level of respect and professionalism that needs to be present. Edited by - skx23 on 12/2/2015 2:29:02 AM Edited by - skx23 on 12/2/2015 2:30:12 AM
Then start posting and recalling facts with the use of vast internet knowledge (you can use this and other sites to cross reference Ramon and "brunettes" that he's performed with under the JJV brand) so you can stop fanning the flames of a serious situation. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. My friend "H" was raped, she ended up in the hospital, her left arm broken, her neck in a collar...you're doing her and other legitimate rape victims the biggest disservice. Fucking stop it.
but she DID start all of this. because since then all we've had is a deluge of bitter people coming out of the woodwork to throw their logs onto the fire that is now James' career. as far as male talent and how THEY like to be on set, ok, if you let the inmates run the asylum, they will. I would specifically tell certain performers at times that I did NOT want any choking in the scene we were about to do. or, I NEVER allowed guys to bang the chicks in a blowbang, even if she was up for it because that wasn't the scene I wanted in my blowbang movie. that's called controlling your set. if you let James run wild, on or off camera, then it's partially on YOU (Kink.com). if you want to bring the hammer down on someone who has wronged, or God forbid violated you, then bring that f*cker down! filing charges is a VERY big deal, blasting someone on twitter,...not so much. as you can always take it down. this entire mess is bad for EVERYONE... but I can't respect accusation of that magnitude that's(til now), unsubstantiated. that's entirely un-American in my book. -von S.
^ lack of clarity regarding the context in which the alleged* rape occurred makes it difficult to determine what evidence could be available. If it was 'private', as opposed to 'on set', and it wasn't recorded, then the only 'evidence' would be the parties' claims and counter-claims. If this was the case (ie a private, unrecorded incident) then a formal charge would, ultimately, require a prosecution to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that the rape occurred. In the absence of forensic evidence such a trial would come down to a credibility issue and I imagine a smart defense lawyer could impugn Stoya's credibility sufficiently for the 'beyond reasonable doubt' threshold not to be met. Therein lies the problem for Stoya in making Deen criminally accountable for his actions. On the other hand Deen could always attempt to sue Stoya for libel. The burden of proof would be upon him to prove the allegations false and caused harm, but the standard of proof would be lower, that is the balance of probabilities. There are any number of legal niceties, including the status of Twitter, to be determined as to whether such an action is possible, but if Deen won, then in terms of lost income he could perhaps recover significant damages. Of course, with the lower standard of proof, and if it came down to a credibility contest, it may take more than the 'I'm a bro and she's a hoe' argument (which could probably be enough to sway a criminal jury) to erode Stoya's credibility such that her allegations fail to meet the 'balance of probabilities' threshold. In fact the more one thinks about it the more appropriate it appears to be for disempowered female victims of sexual abuse to use social media to call out their assailants. As to the effect on Deen personally, and while I understand it has been 'devastating' for him, until he actually addresses Stoya's allegations meaningfully, I have very little sympathy. If he did rape Stoya then he deserves to be devastated; if he didn't, it's going to take more than three mealy-mouthed tweets to turn the tide (unless he's relying on the 'bros before hoes' culture to come to his rescue). Like pretty much all manifestations of capitalism porn, for the most part, is misogynistic and funnels profits into greedy men's bank accounts - it will survive this, with most of its distasteful participants untouched by it all. I acknowledge this last observation will offend some contributors to this thread - the intention is not to single out any individual or company involved in the porn industry, but is more about recognizing porn as part of a wider economic system that undervalues and exploits women, and that when 'push comes to shove' will tolerate anything for a buck (notwithstanding female pornstars earn more per scene than their male counterparts). *I use 'alleged' not because I don't believe Stoya but due to the fact the the subject of this post partially traverses the issue of evidential uncertainty.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 7:32AM
Womens empowerment surely starts with the decisions they choose to make - ie - not entering into relationships with someone whom goregirl describes as it being an open secret was a sociopath and a rapist. If your idea of female empowerment is tweeting about being raped after the event then thats quite retrograde.
^ so just to clarify: 1. In your first sentence you're conflating the general and the specific: a. It's generally not an open secret that any particular man is a 'sociopath and a rapist'; but also b. Stoya had it coming to her anyway because Deen was always going to rape her, so it's her fault?; 2. You didn't intend there to be a logical connection between your first sentence and your second, because there isn't - you were merely observing that Twitter as a communication medium is only appropriate for narcissists to 'share' the mundane and superficial triviata of their daily lives, such as what they had for breakfast, BUT NOT for reporting anything genuinely significant. If a women has been raped and she has a Twitter account why not tweet about it and name the offender? Seems progressive to me. Edited by - Sexy Sadie on 12/2/2015 1:31:59 PM
Do you really try to make sense of what you post ? I am anonymous, I will fuck up your current life, your job and your means of living based on a post I make without any proof. What do you expect the guy to do ? Agree and confess because many other women are raped somewhere in the world ? Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/2/2015 3:02:29 PM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 3:24PM
Seems vigilantism to me. Vigilantism will look fine as long as you are on the same side of morality of the vigilantee. The guy who maintains pornwikileaks might think he is right because he is exposing all these moral-less women who have sex for money. There is due process for a reason. Individuals have agendas, biases.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 3:35PM
You are completely incorrect regarding the libel situation and just guessing out of your ass there. I suppose you are not a lawyer, are you ? I am guessing more like gender studies or tumblr feminism.Yeah, it took someone 2 measily tweets to accuse him of rape and get him blacklisted at several places. No details of the situation either. Atleast do not pretend to be fair when you are platinum certified man hater. Embrace the hate completely. I can see why he is completely silent. He is getting some serious legal advice. Anything to feed the drama or posting more would be stupid for him legally where he guilty or not. Edit: This site is seriously outdates.. It does not even have proper text formatting UI. Quoting someone, highlighting text is a serious pain in the ass. Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/2/2015 3:37:51 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 4:16PM
@ Sexy Sadie Yes as Love observes , impressive and pretty on point. Conflating yes. I was saying that womens empowerment rests in large measure in their own hands, in the decisions and choices they make. And with reference specifically to the case that you were talking about (the Stoya case) ; the front line of empowerment resides in who she chooses to have a relationship with. If she chooses to have a relationship with somebody (in this case James Deen) who Gore Girl describes as it being an open secret was a sociopath and a rapist then that is her choice and her responsibility. And ; if a woman chooses to enter into a relationship with someone who is a known sociopath and rapist then yes she has a responsibility for placing herself knowingly in danger. The rapist is guilty of rape and should be locked up obviously - that does not invalidate any personal responsibility that the victim has for there actions , actions that may place them in harms way. Ok i agree if you find yourself raped and disempowered then posting about it on twitter may be an option in an bad situation with few other options. But its a second best situation - better advocate not becoming a "disempowered female victim" in the first place than strategise about what to do after youve been raped. Imho.
Going from long-time lurker to poster because I wanted to respond to this:Respectfully, I read a little further into that Wikipedia article than you did. Stoya's tweets may fall under state "libel per se" law. A statement is libelous per se when it is obviously defamatory. Apparently, four classes of statements are recognized, two of which are the accusation of a crime and the imputation of serious sexual misconduct. Either class would cover Stoya's tweets, I would think. As I understand it, this means that James Deen wouldn't have to prove the allegations are false, merely that he was damaged. Obviously, he has been. As a public figure, he might also have to prove that the statements were made maliciously. As in all libel cases in the US truth is an absolute defense, so if Stoya can prove her statements true -- as you say, based on a preponderance of evidence -- then there would be no legal liability. ----- First, do no harm. Edited by - JonathanLocke on 12/4/2015 5:12:37 AM
^ Thanks for the clarification, but still not seeing where, in the US jurisdiction, the the onus of proof is on the defendant in a libel action where 'truth' is being used as a defence. If you feel up to it please provide a link. Always happy to stand corrected, but not sure my mistakes have significantly undermined the point I was trying to make. Edited by - Sexy Sadie on 12/4/2015 12:43:19 PM
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 5:55PM