It's tomorrow's news but you guys can read it today :-)
Now if Tom Byron would just contact me about his Rog Reviews Critic's Choice Award (And Lizzy's) and help me figure out why I haven't seen an Extreme DVD or vid in months......
I guess this is a sure sign that Extreme Associates isn't dead yet. It's admirable that Jessica wants to snare directorial employment for her husband, Luis Cypher. However, in light of Extreme Associates' less than stellar history and current shaky financial situation, I still don't see why she would throw caution to the wind and get involved with that company again (especially since they did her dirty the last time). I'm curious if her contract will be exclusive or non-exclusive.
Pontus
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Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Feb 6 2003 : 1:47AM
Hopefully non exclusive. I can't stand the thought of only seeing her in the lame stuff shot by EA.
Interesting news. Maybe Extreme had to clear the house before signing her (& possibly her husband) to a big fat contract???
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Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Feb 6 2003 : 2:28AM
Jessica must have her head stuffed up her ass to sign with a dying company like Extreme. They are useless!!! Thay are retarded!!! They suck bigtime!!! Jessica I like you and I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you just lost thousands and thousands of dollars! Maybe even millions! You just dropped the ball big time. You signed with the biggest joke of a company in the history of the porn Biz!!! No one will ever consider your pathetic scenes with that terrible company good porn. You had a chance to go into the big time but you declined. You chose to help your pathetic husband who will never be a good porn director anyway. I hope it is not too late for your career. When Extreme goes out of business you can shoot for other good companies. Next time you get the shot to be in good porn dont' consider your husband! You are the greatest asset your family has to give.
Darth, Not to disagree, but to date Jessica's best scenes have ALL been shot by Extreme. I haven't seen a lot of her new stuff, the scene in Joey's movie was good, but no one gets more out of Jess and Tommy and Luis.
I was under contract with Extreme for 7 months. In that time, I did not recieve ONE paycheck that did not bounce several times before I got paid. At times, they were nearly 90 days behind paying me as every single check, and "fix it" check bounced.
It lead to tension and anger on both sides and ultimately a mutual split all parties were ready for.
I wish Jessica better luck.
One word of advice Jessica. Never let them get into the hole with you. It adds up fast. If a check bounces, stop working until it is paid. Trust me, it goes bad fast.
Does anyone know if Veronica Caine is still under contract with Extreme?
Extreme was smart to sign Jessica again, she's the real deal and a girl who can help Extreme get on their feet again. I hope to see her in a new Lower Extremities volume again!
Question if Jessica wanted to get directorial work for her goofy ass husband why didn't she approach a quality company like Evil Angel or RLD? I have always admirred Jessica for her work but have got to question her sanity on this one big time,especially since she looks better now than she ever did. extreme just doesn't know how to shoot girls and make them look attractive they never have makeup or clothing that looks worth a shit on the girls, it is a joke. Who is going to be fucking jessica now at extreme all of the quality male talent has been snared by other companies my god not a bunch of crack headed short dick fuckers oh no!!!!!! All I have to say is she better be in the hardest scenes she has ever done or she is going to lose all of the fans she has garnered since her return. Her first movie should be a 20 man gang-bang swallowing all of the cum at the end to prove she is not just a ditzy ass porn whore like most of these chicks, being manipulated by the lame dick fuckers they have hanging-on to them.
After reading the e-mail that Jessica Darlin sent to Roger T. Pipe, it is ABUNDANTLY clear that Jessica is no rocket scientist. Truly pathetic, as well as hypocritical (Jessica badmouths ex-Extreme Associates employees who criticized EA after leaving, but forgets that she herself did the same thing in her interview with Rog last year). Heck, if you were an ex-EA employee whose pay checks kept bouncing, wouldn't you complain?
Pontus
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Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Feb 6 2003 : 1:07PM
I couldn't agree more Pontus. Although I must admit I was much too harsh in my last post, Jessica has made a huge mistake. I just hope EA's demise is quick. I hope they don't linger for a couple of years trying to keep releasing pathetic titles that barely play on peoples dvd players with video quality that pales to most vhs. Jessica is still a great pornstar and a seemingly nice person I wish her well. I still hope somehow to see her in RLD, ANa/Dia, and Evil Angel releases in the future. Stranger things have happened.
How do we know she didn't approach Evil? RLD would be a horrible fit for two reasons. First, they don't have contract girls so what is Jess going to do. Second, Luis makes movies that our of the current scope of RLD. His stuff isn't just put a girl on the couch and fuck her. Their best stuff came from Extreme. The current state of Extreme-hate doesn't change the fact that they were as hot in 1999/2000 as RLD is right now, probably more so.
Jessica is nice but I want Veronica Caine back, in a Buttman movie if that's possible :-)
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Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Feb 6 2003 : 2:07PM
Rog, I think Extreme was hot at that time because they put out something different. There product was never close to the quality of RLD or Evil Angel is now. I can't imagine those two studios going in the tank like Extreme has. RLD and Evil Angel go above and beyond to constantly improve the quality of there movies and there dvds. Extreme is the absolute opposite. Not to be mean but im kind of hoping they go out of business. Tom Byron is a great director and I would love to see him team up with a good studio. Also it would once again free up JD. Now that would be somethin{!!!
Rog ... Please tell me a few really good Extreme titles to check out. Other than some of Tom's ... I just always found their videos to be a huge turn-off. Like watching circus freaks.
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Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Feb 6 2003 : 2:31PM
Skronker, I agree. Tom Byron was the only thing worth watching from Extreme.
Luis don't just put the girl on a couch and fuck them.
Well all I got to say is maybe he should the scenario seems to be working pretty fucking good for jules and alike. Afetr all whats more important some fucking freak story to go along with the porn or just hot ass girls getting fucked and looking good while they do it. As far as Evil A and RLD not having contract chicks there is always a first time for everything.
I had heard that she was out because of a boyfriend, but I also heard she was talking to people, trying to fix some of the stuff she did and said. (Jewel De'Nyle is not so forgiving....)
Wow, I hate to disagree, but I do. You are right, they were doing something sort of different. Evil Angel is untouchable, but RLD (no offense, I like their stuff) isn't anything close to new. It's all the same stuff. Extreme's early stuff was really good. Tom's stuff, Rob's stuff, Van's stuff, Cypher's stuff, eventually Zupko etc. Their early tape quality was superior to early RLD stuff and the quality of talent used at the time was better as well. (Come on, we all remember the Wesley Pipes days)
This is a DVD forum and that is the one area where Extreme has always been weak. But if you compare first year Extreme stuff to first year RLD stuff, the quality, originality and star power aren't even close.
Remember, I am comparing Extreme after 18 months to RLD since everyone is so down on the former and slobbering over thh latter.
I like Vince, but Tom's stuff is better. David Luger is really good, but Van was better with the camera, Rob Black is what he is, but some of his stuff was really good. Luis did some great movies with Jessica.
Their Cocksmoker series EARLY on was outstanding. Whack Attack, The Pornographer, The early Extreme Gang Gang stuff....
You can hate them now, but at their peak, Extreme was way up the food chain. RLD is climbing fast, especially if they land a few of the really good free agent directors.
The Pornographer Extreme Monique Asswoman in Wonderland Cock Smokers 2 Extreme Gang Bang 3 Porno Boot Camp (For interesting stuff) Extreme Teen 4 Face Down, Ass Up 2 Flesh Pot Guilt Trip (A Cypher flick) House of Whores In the Days of Whore (Zupko so not for everyone) LA 399 Lewd Behavior 1 & 2 Shades of Hades (Zupko) Sluts Butts & Housewives Vengeance (Cypher's best probably) Suitcase Pimps (For the title alone) Any of the Extremely Yours movies (Comps so a lot of the stuff is Byron's) The Abyss (Zupko's best)
And of course, throw in Byron's Whack Attack and Lord of Asses movies and you've got a ton to choose from :-0
Yo ! Rog what I mean is his shit is tease and then straight to the sex their is not much story involved. All this shit about extreme being good in the past is true. As far as Jessica's best work at extreme it has to be LAST BREATH ,followed by SPENT her dp scene in that movie was great and she swallowed both loads at the end and her directorial debut movie DARLIN'S DERRIERES where she had the shit fucked out of her by the former Luiciano and Brandon Irons. Now if all of her new movies at extreme are going to be that hot or hotter and extreme gets their shit together with simultaneous vhs/dvd releases then I will again become a fan of extreme,but that's a big fucking if.
Rog, I must say that in your response to D-M, you changed what you originally said in order to prove your point. Here's what you initially said:You started out comparing Extreme Associates in 1999/2000 to Red Light District Video today.
But then, you changed the basis of your comparison by comparing Extreme Associates in 1999/2000 to Red Light District Video in its early days:
Do you see what I mean, Rog? If you stick to what you originally said, almost by ever measure, Red Light District Video today is a superior company to Extreme Associates circa 1999/2000.
Here are just some of the reasons that I say this:
* RLD doesn't bounce checks to its performers/directors. * Unlike EA, RLD doesn't financially shaft other companies in the production and marketing cycles (distributors, advertisers, etc.). * RLD provides greater financial incentives to its directors by allowing them to own their own titles (something EA has never done). * EA committed the "brilliant" move of stealing Gene Ross from AVN in a very unethical way, which resulted in EA simultaneously cutting themselves off from AVN's advertising media and awards selections (even Zupko went on to admit that this was one of the worst mistakes EA ever made--and they did it at the start of their company). * RLD is astoundingly consumer-focused (EA has been just the opposite, frequently showing their own consumers contempt). * From almost the very beginning (or from the very beginning), RLD has been doing dual VHS/DVD releases of all of their titles (EA still isn't doing that after all this time). * RLD releases DVDs that actually work. * RLD doesn't saturate the market with low-quality foreign movies with cheesy voice overdubs. * EA used Lex solely as a performer, but RLD will have him both as a performer and a director. * RLD has a sterling reputation throughout the industry. Whereas even during EA's heyday, they were always poorly viewed by the rest of the industry (EA actually deliberatly worked hard to create that result and then unwisely prided themselves on it). * If during the 1999/2000 time-frame Zupko was working at EA, then his wild excesses brought the whole company down on the artistic level (excessive anti-religious themes, vomiting, blood, lepers, etc., went a long way in destroying the eroticism). * RLD doesn't thrust on consumers "fossil fucker" themes. * Rob Black has rarely (if ever) been regarded as a great director. * Some of Luis Cypher's movies were very good, but then he (by his own admission) started to run out of creative steam. * Great though Jessica Darlin is as a performer, by her being a contract girl at EA, consumers, quite frankly, got TOO much Jessica Darlin (and even Jessica herself has admitted that she eventually burned out and her performances were becoming increasingly perfunctory). * EA might have regularly gotten more big name porn stars back then, but RLD more than makes up for it with an abundance of both fresh American babes and fresh Euro babes. Dion places a very strong emphasis on this aspect.
I could go on and on. No waaaaaaaay was EA as hot a company then as RLD is today. End of story. Plus, the gigantic wall of hate that exists towards EA was built by EA themselves, brick by brick.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Feb 6 2003 : 8:23PM
It is both fascinating (from an academic-film historical standpoint) and funny to see that this discussion is conducted with valid arguments by both parties. I would say that the point of departure of this discussion is not very fruitful and that straight comparisons between these two companies early years is not a very smart thing to do. The industry has changed, the market has changed (for instance, how many companies did do dual VHS/DVD releases back in 1998?), the product has changed, the viewer has changed, ... and on top of that, both these companies made/make very different kinds of porn. All what is left for me to see here, is a lot of "making meaning" (a very noble activity) disguised as "ontological and historical truths" (a very bad thing to do). However, don't let this (pseudo?)intellectual musing of me disturb you all from this wonderful topic.
I said that all the arguments I have seen so far in this thread were more or less valid, except this one:
That is simply not true. Rob Black won an AVN Award for Miscreants . It was one of the few times that I believed that AVN had any balls and more or less did the right thing. Before any AVN bashing commences, let's look at what that award really signified. Rob Black got the Award while all the really "good friends" of AVN were appaled by the guy. It even created a real ruckus in the editorial pages of the magazine itself, when such "upstanding" members of the porn community as Veronica Hart, protested against the decision by AVN. So Black's win despite all the opposition from a large part of AVN's hinterland, really is a testament of his directorial success and aclaim within the industry. You don't have to agree with the statement that Black was a great director (I certainly don't like a lot of his stuff since he departed from Elegant Angel), but there was a time when he certainly was regarded as a great director.
I'm being careful to remind you that my point was what Extreme was at the same point in their history. Times have changed, but remember that you're talking 4 years and a lot of people reading this don't even remember what Extreme was then.
Roger, I compared the two companies on the same basis that you initially did. All of the things I wrote about EA were true circa 1999/2000 (to the best of my knowledge, though I don't claim to be a deity of facts). The one possible exception might be if they weren't releasing DVDs at all back then (I'm too lazy to check on it at the moment). But everything else I wrote is a valid comparison. Neither one of us can "prove" to the other the "truth" of what we're saying. Like a great many things in life, it comes down to a matter of opinion.
Ditto for you, Walter. Sure, Rob Black won that award for Miscreants. Rob did have one great year, I'll grant you that. However, if you took a poll, I don't think most industry insiders (or even porn fans for that matter) would consider Rob Black a great director. I think it's safe to say that Rob Black will never be inducted into the X-Rated Critics Organization Hall of Fame (though Patrick Collins has been, and someday Jules Jordan probably will be). I would agree that Rob had his moments, but he definitely was never a great director in my opinion. And, yes, this comes down to personal opinion, just as in the case of my difference with Roger T. Pipe, who I have enough respect for to fill the Atlantic Ocean. And regarding Roger, my main point of contention was that he changed the basis of his comparison as I pointed out.
None of this is worth getting into a pissing contest over, however. If anyone feels compelled to have the last word on me, then fine, if that'll make you feel better, go right ahead. In then end, we'll still disagree, so what's the point?
Pontus
Edited by - Pontus Maximus on 2/6/2003 10:30:56 PM
Well I presented a lot of facts. Many of the things you said were NOT TRUE of Extreme back then. You said yourself that you don't know. So you can call me a liar if you want, I don't care.I'm just pointing out where your comparison was missing some factual back-up. It was supposed to be a comparison of Extreme after the same time as RLD. Personally I don't think Dion will let them falter. I don't know what your beef with Extreme is, but you presented some things that didn't fit within the context of your 'debate' with me.
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And regarding Roger, my main point of contention was that he changed the basis of his comparison as I pointed out.
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Sorry, but you're just not correct. My orignal quote was.. "The current state of Extreme-hate doesn't change the fact that they were as hot in 1999/2000 as RLD is right now, probably more so." You haven't given me any reason to see that as anything but an accurate statement. We're talking about the first year or two of both companies.
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None of this is worth getting into a pissing contest over, however. If anyone feels compelled to have the last word on me, then fine, if that'll make you feel better, go right ahead. In then end, we'll still disagree, so what's the point?
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I agree. You called me out. I don't dislike RLD's product, I didn't dislike most of Extreme's. Like I said, I doubt RLD will go down the same road, but we need to remember that hot companies can fall quickly if they aren't careful.
Roger, honestly, my intention was to not write anything more, but you said a few things that made me feel compelled to respond at least once again.See, Roger, this is why I don't like pissing contests. Things can get out of hand quickly, words can be put in other people's mouths, things can be taken out of context, and things can get ugly fast. At NO point did I ever write or imply that you are a liar. That's you putting words in my mouth. I couldn't just let that go without responding. And then, too, notice how you completely seemed to forget that I said this:So, Roger, on the one hand you put words into my mouth, and on the other, you completely ignore when I pay you a very high compliment.
And I guess we'll never agree on what prompted my response to you in the first place:
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Sorry, but you're just not correct. My orignal quote was.. "The current state of Extreme-hate doesn't change the fact that they were as hot in 1999/2000 as RLD is right now, probably more so."
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I interpret that as a comparison between Extreme Associates circa 1999/2000 and Red Light District Video today (February 6, 2003). Whereas, you seem to interpret that as a comparison between Extreme Associates circa 1999/2000 and Red Light District Video during its first two years in business. I think based on what you initially wrote, my interpretation is correct. However, when D-M disagreed with your initial comparison, then you responded with your interpretation of what you initially posted (and we continue to disagree on that interpretation).
And then there's this statement you made:
I don't really feel that I called you out any more than D-M did. I just happened to disagree with something you posted, but I wasn't trying to pick a fight with you, be disrespectful to you, or anything like that.
I guess it's difficult to disagree with someone about something without things becoming disagreeable, especially in a public context where you're subconsciously aware that other people are peering in on the discussion and there's the need to protect one's ego, pride, etc. Then, too, language itself can be a b*tch (what with its inherent limitations and chances for misinterpretation).
Anyway, Roger, I've been a huge fan of yours for years. I think you're both the best interviewer and reviewer in the business. I do greatly respect your views and 98% of the time, I agree with them. Even though in this instance, we happen to disgree, Roger, let's not let friction or negative feelings come between us. I think you're a great guy.
And I have respect for you as well as anyone who differs. I meant no disrespect.
Sorry, but you're just not correct. My orignal quote was.. "The current state of Extreme-hate doesn't change the fact that they were as hot in 1999/2000 as RLD is right now, probably more so."
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I interpret that as a comparison between Extreme Associates circa 1999/2000 and Red Light District Video today (February 6, 2003). Whereas, you seem to interpret that as a comparison between Extreme Associates circa 1999/2000 and Red Light District Video during its first two years in business. I think based on what you initially wrote, my interpretation is correct. However, when D-M disagreed with your initial comparison, then you responded with your interpretation of what you initially posted (and we continue to disagree on that interpretation).
Hold on....RLD has only been in business about 15 months, maybe 18. So we are talking about the same thing. How am I missing what you're trying to say? (You can ignore that question or email me, it's just a quesion, not a challenge in any way.)
And then there's this statement you made:
I don't really feel that I called you out any more than D-M did. I just happened to disagree with something you posted, but I wasn't trying to pick a fight with you, be disrespectful to you, or anything like that.
I guess it's difficult to disagree with someone about something without things becoming disagreeable, especially in a public context where you're subconsciously aware that other people are peering in on the discussion and there's the need to protect one's ego, pride, etc. Then, too, language itself can be a b*tch (what with its inherent limitations and chances for misinterpretation).
Anyway, Roger, I've been a huge fan of yours for years. I think you're both the best interviewer and reviewer in the business. I do greatly respect your views and 98% of the time, I agree with them. Even though in this instance, we happen to disgree, Roger, let's not let friction or negative feelings come between us. I think you're a great guy.
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Well I meant no disrespect. No one can compare RLD to Extreme right now, I was simply pointing out how fast a company can rise (RLD, Extreme, Kick Ass etc) and how qickly they can fall (Extreme, Zane possbily Rosebud really soon).
No disrepect, I enjoy your posts and found a lot of your points VERY well thought out. They are great examples of why RLD IS succeeding right now. Perhaps Extreme can take a cue and have a solid re-birth.
Thanks for letting me apologize and perhaps clear the air.
Apology accepted. Thanks, Roger, all you did was confirm what I've known all along: you're a class act all the way. I reiterate, Roger, you're a great guy.
Pontus
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Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Feb 7 2003 : 3:00AM
Wow that was some battle of the minds. I am a big fan of both Rog and Pontus. Nice job to both of you. You both presented your arguments in amazing detail and depth. I don't think I would ever have the patients to pick apart arguments the way you guys did. Both sides had strengths and weaknesses. I definately think that RLD is hands down the better studio today (i know this isn't the argument), and I think they were a better studio in there first 15 months than EA was in there 15 months. I think RLD's sonsumer friendly approach, the concentration on shooting great sex, and putting together quality directors with fresh talent beats Extreme's good contract girls and directors during there first 15 months. I think it is a good argument either way. That is just my opinion. The bottem line is that we will have lots of great porn to watch in the future.
Jessica Darlin @ AEBN
Posted - Feb 5 2003 : 9:43PM