What 'age appropriate' stuff did you have in mind anyway? I still remember my mother diving to turn over the television when a saucy topless scene came on a programme when I was 10-12: if she'd just let things be it would have passed me by but as it is I still dwell on that occurance and I think her actions were the worst thing she could have done (although I realise well intentioned).

For what it is worth, if I were you I'd be more swayed by how your lad deals with women in real life. If he treats them properly and respectfully then the porn probably won't do him any harm; if he doesn't then these are issues that maybe need addressing.
What I do feel is that if you choose to confront him about the DVD you are in a difficult position. On the one hand you cannot actively condone a 15 year old watching porn with a 'well done son' and so you would be forced to condemn the material (at least, that is how I would view it if I were him). There is simply no good reason to stop him watching it that does not either condemn the material or belittle him (ie 'porn is okay but you aren't mature enough to discriminate between how to treat women in real relationships and what happens on screen'). I'm not saying that shouldn't do anything; just don't fix it if it ain't broken!

As I say though, I have no kids so it's easy for me to say!

SNP.

PS: Just re-reading what I've written I'm beginning to realise why my father never said anything; I'd have twisted and turned the arguments around to try and make him look hypocritical, out of touch and insulting

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I don't really know how you and your son interact, so this may or may not be a good idea. Since you suggest you have something you consider more appropriate, why don't you tell him you found his training films, give him what you'd like him to see instead and tell him to check it out, let you know what he thinks. Of course, you'd be breaking umpteen laws 'pandering' to your son by giving him an adult video.

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Secondly, I would be very careful about doing any "illicit" snooping for such things on a routine basis. I don't know how your wife actually found his "stash" - whether it was through accidental cleaning or actually doing some detective work. If it was an innocent discovery then that's fine - but if it was discovered because she was suspicious and went rifling through his room and personal posessions then there's a problem. As with what I mention in the first paragraph, that represents a lack of respect and trust for him as a person (even with your good intentions) - and he will take it that way.

After having said all of that, you, as parents, have the right to object to him having such things in the house, and the right to get rid of them. (Assuming that you've first clearly told him that they won't be tolerated.) You need to sit him down and explain your reasoning and concerns. Ideally, he can be made to understand where you're coming from and not consider your reaction to merely be another "action" in the "war" between parents and son. He needs to be able to understand your position, even if he doesn't agree with it.

You need to be careful not to make emotionally laden statements and/or declarations from a standpoint of authority that come across to him as you simply exercising your "power". (In any kind of "showdown" he will always be the loser and he will resent it and may act out in other ways to get some of his own "power" back. Such as doing far worse things when he's out of the house.) If you do throw anything out, you need to express regret over having to do so, because you understand that you are taking something of his away. You might offer to replace it with something else instead. But you shouldn't throw it out and let him feel as if you're angry with him or his decisions / actions. Rather, it's the situation itself that you don't think is appropriate. Just as with coaching him in homework, and correcting his mistakes, you don't get upset and make him feel as if he's wrong or to blame, you need to approach this the same way.

So, don't express negative emotions, and certainly not against him. Rather try to engage him in an "intellectual" discussion about it, and also try to be positive and upbeat in terms of alternate behaviour. You might start out by saying how proud you are of him for becoming more independent and making his own choices, then go on to discuss sex and drugs in general terms, without coming down on him right away about his own involvement, then gradually work things towards what you've discovered.

If you start off positively and in an encouraging sense, you might even find that he brings some of his own activities up on his own. For instance if, in talking about sex, you mention to him how you and your wife like to watch adult movies, it might create a bit of a common bond. (In talking to anybody about personal issues, it's always a good idea to open up about yourself too, so that the conversation is never felt as just one-sided.) He'll feel as if you're on the same side. In his mind, he may no longer feel the need to be so secretive because he'll know that what's he's doing isn't wrong per se - even if his actual implementation needs a bit more forethought and guidance.

As a specific example, and this is assuming that you don't have a problem with him watching certain types of adult movies, you can tell him that you don't think the one he has is quite appropriate for him at the moment (and explain why) then offer some alternatives. Take that one away and replace it with one or two of the type that you don't have a problem with. Then, a little while later, you can go to him again and ask him what he thought, being encouraging and positive about the good elements in the replacement.

Of course, you don't want to simply pander to his desires, so there's definitely a line here that you don't want to cross. But there's no need to make this an all or nothing situation either. A certain limited disclosure of feelings on the subject, and limited support of the material he should have (if he's to have any) is still more warranted (I believe) than none at all. Even if, at the end of the day, you all agree that you'd rather just keep your private lives to yourselves - at least you will have made each other ware of the overall nature of your private lives, and he will no longer feel quite so isolated from you in his own (natural) inclinations and activities.

This is all very scary, and it's not the natural tendency of parents to feel comfortable with their children getting into this sort of thing. Nor will there be a lack of embarrassment on anybody's part during these conversations. But once the "confrontation" is over (and it shouldn't be thought of as a confrontation but just as a kind of concerned "check up" where advice is given), especially if it's dealt with in a up-front and positive fashion, and one in which he can feel that he also has some input and need not feel embarrassed, then things will get better.

As one final point, you should probably know that I don't have any children of my own so everything that I've said so far comes only from what I've picked up from listening to other people, from what I've seen and read, and from what I've managed to extrapolate from how I think good communication between adults should flow. Keeping that in mind, and also the fact that I'm only aware of your unique family situation in extremely general and non-specific terms, feel free to ignore me. <grin>

Edited by - Mythsong on 6/6/2003 3:19:37 PM

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He's gotten himself in so much deep shit that he can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. What does this have to do with porn? Nothing. With weed? Everything. Mom's a bit of a screamer, and goes snooping around in his stuff. I can't be there all the time to referee. But he avoids all of my efforts to sit down and have a meaningful conversation about much of anything. So much for good parenting.

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I stick by my suggestion last night in chat to just leave him the crummy porn if it's nothing extreme.

I recommend this movie for hot sex without weirdness, and a nice display of various female reactions. You might want to just leave it around near the dvd player, rather than giving it to him or trading for it.

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Mom's a snoop and she found your stash. She threw out the few scraps of weed, left the condoms, and watched In the Pink. I saw some of it too. You know, your Mom and I also watch porn. A woman on Adult DVD Talk recommended Big Cock Seductions 4 as something that might be more appropriate for a beginning porn viewer. It's also more realistic in the way it shows people having sex, especially for a teenager. Here's a copy of the movie review. When you get a chance, I'd like to discuss porn, sex, and women.

Love,
Dad

P.S. I'm missing a copy of Playboy and a copy of Penthouse. Have you seen them? I notice that all of Mom's Playgirls are accounted for.

Edited by - RobHammer on 6/6/2003 6:07:45 PM

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I'd advise you and your wife to avoid mentioning Mr. 15's porn to him, unless he brings it up with you; return his porno magazine and DVD without comment. That porn is part of his private "inner life". Teenage boys don't want to discuss a private thing like their sexual fantasies (as embodied in porn or otherwise) with either of their parents. Beyond enforcing condom use (which is a life or death matter), I believe that you and your wife would honor Mr. 15's needs best by not intervening further into his sexual activities and development -- there are too many moving parts involved to do it safely.

Discussing the drugs in a calm and collected way, now that you've found them, seems a somewhat different story, as long as you're not too heavy-handed about his pot-smoking. (My recollection is that my own mild drug use as a teen was never a very personal issue with me.) The pot-smoking is not going to stop, it's just going to go more underground if you push too hard. I would worry more about why and how often he's smoking the pot than the pot itself. If there's an underlying problem, I'd try to deal with that instead.

I also think that discussing with him the way he treats girls/young women is fair game and may be productive if handled with the right touch. You're a subtle and sensitive guy Rob, and you DO have the moves -- you may just be a bit rusty.

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First, Rob asked for our views and suggestions.

Second, although it's true that parents ultimately WILL ALWAYS do "it" in their own way (whether or not that way actually reflects themselves, or part of themselves), if they don't do it right, then there will be hell to pay.

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I didn't get much information about sex from my mother or step father. They didn't express intimacy in front of me or have much in the way of conversations about sex. I never even heard them in the bedroom. There was the 'where babies come from' talk when I was 8. When I was 14 I was told to be careful with girls and was offered condoms if I needed them. That was about it. There wasn't any porn around, and none of my friends had any either. I did find a few volumes of erotic literature. I was too shy and embarrassed to bring anything up about sex on my own. I didn't know if they would approve of my activities or not. There wasn't any sex education class, and I didn't think to look for information in a small town library. I'm sure many of you are nodding your heads and following right along on some of these things. Most of what I learned about sex was from peers, and experimenting with the neighborhood girls. I had been masturbating since I was little, but the subject seemed so taboo that I didn't know what my mother would think. I knew some of my friends did, and had a few experiences there. Even as a young adult, I was usually too shy and embarrassed to get past my own erection when dealing with women. Not that it stopped me from having as much sex as I could get. I do remember going back to visit my mother. I passed by a bar and was embarrassed by what she might think about the Thursday night wet t-shirt contest.

I definitely do not want my kids growing up like that. We play grab ass in the pool and make out. We don't act any differently towards each other when the kids are around. Not that we keep the bedroom door open while we're having sex. We occasionally get complaints like, "would you two quiet down, I'm trying to sleep!"

We talk openly about sexual issues, and let them know that masturbation is OK, but is something usually done in private. I've shown them the Scarlet Teen and other web sites, and told them about dental dams and oral sex. I don't care if they see sex on film. It's the way that it's presented I'm concerned with. I'm much more concerned about violence on film. Mom is a bit more inhibited, but that's her Catholic school upbringing showing. They've brought the 'gay' and 'fag' name calling thing home. I've told them about friends I have, explained why that behavior is unacceptable, and clued them in on the statistics. Unfortunately, their peers have much more influence on their thinking and behavior than do dear old Mom and Dad.

Do they know that I'm bisexual? They should, but it doesn't really matter much as I'm not out carousing around. When I see them looking at pictures of girls together I'll asked them if they like to the see the boys together too. I've told them I like to watch both. Mom found a box cover from one of my bi-sex titles under the oldest ones bed. I don't know if they've stumbled on my story files on the computer, but I know the oldest has gone through a paper file of AVN reviews I had printed. It also had some story drafts in it.

I don't have any problem in communication with the younger two, but they haven't gone through puberty yet. It's the oldest that thinks he knows everything, and refuses to get an education. With his raging hormones, he's too embarrassed to talk about any sexual issue. I did give him that letter. He actually refused to listen and tried to get up and leave when I did go to have a talk. So I said my piece in abbreviated form, and have no idea what will stick.

Bob wanted my manual on parenting. Well, that's one chapter.

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That was a VERY good chapter on children and sex education.

The fact that you and your wife have been modeling a physically affectionate adult relationship for your kids all along, the vital information about safe sex that you have imparted to them, and the general openness you have demonstrated -- all these gifts will undoubtedly save them from suffering much of the confusion, embarrassment, and pain around love, intimacy, and sex that you experienced yourself and that many of us shared.

There's no easy way to handle any of the Mr. and Ms. 15's in our society, with all those potent hormones raging in their quickly maturing bodies and all that cultural misinformation ravaging their more slowly maturing minds. I can't imagine anyone handling your complicated Mr. 15 better than you did.

Thanks for lighting the way!

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Personally I think I'm going to have way more problems with my pre-teen daughter (who already acts 16) than my son, but at least I have some time to think about how we'll handle the "education." Boarding school is starting to sound pretty good.

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