^I have found that plenty of women with the gonads to do porn turn out to be really interesting or funny people. The established apparatus around porn tends to not help those qualities come out and it feels limiting and boring all around. The lame interviews are just one example/symptom.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Jan 23 2023 : 2:38PM
^ Pornstars and sex workers come from all types of social and economic backgrounds. Some don't come from the stereotypical "broken homes and bad situations", I understand you're in the industry but I don't think it's fair to think these women just come from "broken homes and a bad upbringing". It's also funny nobody ever assumes this of male pornstars, just women.
Well, there is a whole genre of porn and a lifestyle devoted to Cucks, degenerates, and paypigs, so maybe she was talking to them.
Again, what are these positive interactions you want? As far as extra content, after watching the girl have sex, how could seeing a shot of them walking a puppy be remotely interesting?
Its either a good scene or not.
You're right, I don't care, and I don't know if I'd use understand but I don't get it and I'll explain why. But again, other than their use of a few insulting words you really haven't told me what you're actually expecting?
Here's my angle. Take away the fact that you have sentimental feelings for a fictitious persona and also their real-life rantings, what do you actually know about her? What are her hobbies and interests? Do you have anything in common? If they were right in front of you right now, what would you actually say to them?
Reading some of the comments here like "separating the artist from the art" and "I want to humanize them" are laughable. The second a star thread is started; it'll be declared that all 4"9" of the girl needs to be doing double anal with Dredd and they want to see them struggle to take it.
What's also amusing is the crowd (me included) will search out a mainstream star in hopes of seeing them in a bikini, topless, etc. But, since we've already seen them naked and having sex, the crowd (not me) wants to see them with clothes on.
Remember the show Fantasy Island (Da Plane, Da plane?) Do you remember Mr. Rouke having to tell people to "Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true?" Well, in your case it did. You wanted to know more about this person, you followed her, and now the illusion is ruined.
What Lezzyist said is correct, I didn't mean it in a derogatory manner, but the opposite.Because male pornstars are not respected from the outset, and for a lot of correct reasons. Male pornstars are not held up as sex symbols by everyday women, and the ones that are highly regarded by men, are usually scum. A lot of porn fans complain about overuse of actors, but the very good reasons male porn actors are used often are because they do their job and treat their costars well.
No. She was blatantly expressing contempt. "cucks" and "degenerates" are actually political buzzwords these days. Let's not do mental gymnastics to excuse insultsUh, not being insulting? not making everything a political argument?
This isn't a difficult thing to understand. like Lezzyist said, it's not a high bar.
Most performers appreciate their fans, even retired ones. People in general don't like alienating behavior
And I already explained in the first post, I like the contrast between sex performance and regular life. A lot of people do
You are asking me to get too specific. But in the case of this retired performer, we actually have a lot of hobbies and interests in common.
she has unusual and eclectic taste in music. vintage Americana, 1960s latin rhythms, 1970s jazz-funk, 1990s hip hop. I also listen to everything from Lead Belly to Herbie Hancock to the Native Tongues.
She is into reading and has a bunch of 1920s "Lost Generation" stuff. Anais Nin, Henry Miller. Delta of Venus, Tropic of Cancer, authors and books I've read too.
She has been a martial artist for many years, I know my way around the dojo too. I don't care for her school, but I've done Japanese arts.
What would I say to her? It would not be about politics. Unfortunately, she'd probably force the subject.
I don't think it's laughable to humanize the performers. They are people after all. I think a lot of porn fans appreciate that, I think audiences are diverse. it's a presumptuous generalization to describe all watchers the same way
You should see Sasha Grey's audience these days. A million viewers on Twitch for three years, they're not all tuning in just because they hope she does porn again.
Well that is true. You are definitely of the opinion that knowing too much is a bad thing.
but that's why I started the thread, I'm interested in reading and discussing these opinions, not trying to be combative.
Respectful discourse! if only that were more common
Well that's an interesting point. the thread title could also apply to the men in porn, in a different way.
Because, over the years, there have been some very sad stories and outcomes for some prominent male performers.
Does knowing what happened to them affect how we watch their porn?
Jon Dough. Brandon Iron. Sledge Hammer. tragic endings.
Or how about what some men in porn have perpetrated upon others.
Brian Surewood. Chico Wang. Marc Wallice. etc. etc. Villainy. Human ugliness.
To be honest..... I do think about this stuff when I see them on camera. sometimes it is just a passing thought. but sometimes not.
Ugh I didn't really want this thread to get into the depressing tragedies of porn. I guess it's directly related to the thread title. But it's a bottomless hole.
2^ No I didn't say too much information is a bad thing, I said, be careful what you wish for it just might come true. In this case your wish came true and you don't like the end result because your sentimental ideal was ruined by reality. I learned early 80's not to get too attached to the flavor of the month. Ana Alicia' from Falcon Crest and Teri Hatcher are two examples of lust objects for me, but the minute they opened their mouths the crush was killed.
IMHO, unless a person is in a committed relationship with a performer, any interaction between a performer and a non performer is transactional at best. In my experiences in showbusiness, it's always the same. The fan is always the star's biggest fan and as such, they think they're owed something more than a thank you. It's worse for porn because the guy thinks because they crank one out to some of her scenes, the guy almost expects to get a Beej. (Pizza delivery scenario.)
But anyway, I'm not into following anyone really on social media, because for one, I find myself and real life much more fascinating than some drivel online. Secondly, if I'm hot for a barely legal sweetie doing porn, we only need to have two things in common; 1 she's naked and doing porn, 2. I'm watching the porn.
For me, if the scene is legal and hot, I'll watch it regardless of whatever the status of the girl's behavior is. (Excluding grooming type of issues, etc) But that's me.
^ Well I find such a perspective needlessly reductive, cynical and presumptuous. but we all have our differences, and obviously we're not going to convince each other of our points with online drivel like this hahaha. Agree to disagree etc.
btw, early 1980s? Jeez. I thought i was getting old with my 90s references!
You mentioned Brian Surewood, Chico Wong, and Darren James perpetuating onto others and referring to this as "Villainy. Human Ugliness." I wasn't familiar with Chico Wong or Brian Surewood, so I looked up what happened with them and why you might say this. From what I found out, Chico Wong died of an overdose in a hotel room. Brian Surewood was charged with vehicular manslaughter.
However, I was familiar with Darren James and deeply disturbed by what happened to him- not only contracting HIV but how he was outed and vilified. I feel weird naming people I worked with and haven't on this board (not that it's a secret and most of the scenes are online). However, because it's relevant, Darren was the first person I worked with. This was 2 years before the HIV outbreak. He was really sweet, soft-spoken and also friendly. He introduced himself to me before the scene when the producer was in another room and right after introducing himself, showed me his HIV test results without me asking. I was new and didn't know what to ask for. I knew it was standard to test every 30 days at the time (now every 14 days), but didn't know if it was standard for performers to show our results to each other or just to the producers or directors.
One of the themes on this thread is performers sharing too much information about themselves on social media and that's not what Darren did. I don't know if he even does social media anymore. He seems to have become very private and out of the limelight. He didn't voluntarily draw all that media attention to himself, but AIM outed him. It wasn't until a few years later he even spoke to the media about it.
I never blamed him for the HIV outbreak and he was blamed for issues that were systemic. How is it is fault that production companies were having performers do increasingly risky sex acts to get work? How was it his fault that there's customer demands for such acts? How was it his fault that production companies were trying to out do each other for who can push the envelope the most in terms of risky sex acts? Did Darren perpetuate it, did the porn industry, or did customer demand?
Though the topic of this thread isn't just about Darren, his name came up so I said something and wish I had years earlier. This is the first time I posted about him on a public thread. Many on this board were posting on this topic in 2004 when the HIV outbreak happened. This includes not only viewers, but also various porn performers of the time. You can do a search in the search box on this board if you're interested.
^ Sorry Tessa, you are right. I got my names mixed up and meant Marc Wallice, not Darren James. I have edited the post.
just FYI, Brian Surewood was involved in a road rage/road racing incident that resulted in a crash that killed a 5-year-old boy and severely injured a woman and her baby. The woman lost her leg and the baby was comatose.
Brian Surewood then fled the scene.
The charges were not dropped. there was a plea bargain that put him in prison for more than 5 years.
This has been reported on extensively. suffice it to say Brian Surewood is not an example of a stellar human being. he actually had multiple licence suspensions at the time of the crash.
also FYI, Chico Wang did not just OD in a hotel room. He was under investigation at the time for the death of his girlfriend, the performer Haley Paige, who died of undetermined causes in a hotel room a few weeks before.
Haley was a drug addict too, but the autopsy only found trace amounts of methadone in her system. Wang had previously been investigated for assault and confinement of Haley, possibly even hitting her with a firearm (pistol-whipping).
it's been widely speculated Chico Wang had a role in Haley's death. We'll never know now. but again.....not an example of a good human.
Sledge Hammer - heart failure from being tasered in altercation with police. He had attempted suicide days prior and was having a violent mental breakdown.
Thanks for the correction. With Brian Surewood, I just said what I read, not whether it was accurate and will also correct what I wrote. I may have misread the information. This is my first time hearing of the tragedy, so you probably know more about this than I do.
Interesting postings. Well, to twitter, right, some are only using it to promote, push their stuff, products, others are more writing,personal opinions, private stuff and so on. I am on OF with 3 girls finally, and since long, 1 is using twitter for her beside porn stuff, twitch, and private issues. The second lady uses twitter only for promoting, selling stuff and rarely for her social things in terms of her porn persona, also Insta. The third person, who lives not in CA, is using it for all stuff, but more for her private, personal stuff. So if I wanna know what is up, I have to go to twitter or Insta. On OF all 3 ladies do not talk about her "off porn" issues. Only in 2 cases, when asking really serious I get some private answers or informations. But only some. Performer no 3, never. All I know is from the internet. The issue is, all 3 ladies look totally different in real life. All are well-known, 2 are really at the top of porn, call them "stars". But just this 2 famous girls look so different in real lfe, without any make-up, styling, even without lipstick. The problem is, in 1 case, without all that glamour, just to be notice and watch on the recent AVN and XBIZ shows, events, awards and red carpets, the glamour and the star image is disappeared. Average looking, small lips, pale skin, spots/pimples just looking like the girl next door. The same is for dressing, off from the set or spotlights, this lady is wearing casual, comfortable stuff like you and me. So I am roller coaster between the 2 sides of a porn performer, the star glamour lady and the normal, private woman.
I agree, if you watch a performer on podcasts like Holly Randall, you can see after years a pornstar with different eyes, happened recently yo me in the case of JuliaAnn. Also I learnded 2 really surprising things on the podcast of Tanya Tate about Cherie DeVille. On Podcasts you can in general see and find more about the woman, the human being, the private person behind the persona, the peformer or the brand. Some are good in playing there role in public as a public person, others less. It is really different.
I once was chatting with Casey on her OF for about 1 year, purchased special videos of her there too. But then she and I stopped, got troubles. Surprised and sad, I figured out recently that I was not chatting with herself probabely, even talking about real intimate and special things, but I guess, with her personal assistant. Why ? Bc recently after over 1 year never more chatting on OF in between, I got a tweet on twitter as a reply by this assistant and this person used my real first name, which Casey knew too and used on OF. So now, the only reason is, I chatted with this assistant instead of chatting with Casey herself.
I understand you, but after 3 years on OF, twitter, Insta and chatting a lot with porn peformer or hired stuff, I finally never knew or know, I think and figured out, that each of those is in a close and mostly in a long-term relationship or even married, to name but a few: Abigial Mac, married......Casey Calvert, married......Shyla Jennings, married.....JuliaAnn, married.....Britney Amber, relationship......Jillian Janson relationship.....Cherie DeVille relationship since about 10 years.......Adriana Chechik was in a long-term relationship, still right now, IDK.....MariskaX from Belgium, long-term relationship, got a child of this partner.....Holly Randall is married and got a child......Dani Daniels is married......Tru Kait, long-term relationship......Karma RX, same....Nicole Aniston, relationship, Kenzie Taylor guess married to Seth Gamble......Vanna Bardot, relationship or even married to Codey Steele........................Just to name but a few.
that's true, but there also a lot of shallow people or people that look completely different... but not in a positive way. I want to mention one case because I was almost shocked by the contrast between the idea I had of her and how she really is. She's a very famous milf who I've always seen just in the context of porn, and in that context I've also heard interviews and she sounds as smart and articulate, a classy lady who also went to college, is rational and interesting. But then I discovered her twitter, and it's not just that her ideas are completely different from my ideas (which is completely normal), it's how the thing she says don't literally have any logic and don't connect one with the other to a degree that it's almost hilarious. I mean there are people that are the opposite of me but I can see they are following a logic, that they are intelligent even if I completely disagree with certain things they are saying. But every time I read her I'm thinking she's completely out of her mind. The contrast with her appearance, including her interviews is absolutely wild. So now when I see there's a new scene with her, even if I think she's hot I can't help but think "oh look, the crazy woman".
Edited by - maturelover on 4/5/2023 5:12:35 PM
[Link]
ao606 Deactivated User
1035 Posts 11/20
Posted - Apr 5 2023 : 6:01PM
Case in point when fans take it too far: [Tweet is no longer available]
The initial post prompting this thread was about performers sharing political views, but this is different. From how she described this, it seems like cyberstalking. I posted about this topic in Only Fans thread on here a few days ago, how it can become dangerous when fans don't accept being just fans and try to make the relationship into more than what it is. Seems like this could be an obssessed fan who doesn't accept boundaries.
I avoid the rapists. That excludes a huge number of videos across the decades. In the remainder, there are many sad cases of drug addiction and suicide, but life is terminal for everyone eventually.
Ya know! It's truly scary sometimes the level of enthusiasm fans show towards their faves because they think they have a connection. There's another thread about porn house locations and is that a hobby for other people. Can you imagine that level of stalkerness, wait excuse me, level of devotion to porn? I've seen posts about fans following and learning a performer's real name, following their social media, and then just happening to run into them while they're out having breakfast with their family. The post then asks for the best way of approaching the performer to say hi. When questioned why they feel the need to approach, the response is to "thank them for all the great scenes!" or some other drivel but the point is the guy thought that because he spanked a few off to the girl, they get to bond.
As far as the guys and the OF chats not being the actual performer, Duh! I read here I think that Riley Reid was starting a performer social media mgmt type of company. Basically handling all the day to day posts and the like. That sounds like a direct indication that you wouldn't actually be chatting with the person you think you are. Plus I'd imagine the transcript of the conversation where the fan gets to know the person isn't quite as personal as they think.
OFM: What are wearing? Fan paying to chat: 3 week old sweat and a dirty tee shirt with a Diet Mr. Pibb stain! OFM: That sounds hot, I like Diet Mr. Pibb! What do you look like? Fan: 5'7" 250 Lbs with long greasy hair and a beard with cracker crumbs in it. OFM: OMG, you're getting me wet right now. I love Ritz crackers. Fan: We have so much in common! Can I pay you more to chat with me?
Edited by - Mike Hawk CEO Dixon Cider on 4/9/2023 1:09:04 PM
A few? Dude, that's 15! I'm really curious to know, why would you need to figure out these things let alone post them? Given that today's performances are done by sex workers now, and its considered work and a job, you can also assume that just about every female in porn is either in a relationship and/or is married or at one point been in a relationship or married. You can also assume that since they are females they either have or will have a child.
Also, you missed Lisey Sweet being married and her having sex with her hubby before cleaning up from her shoots. Elsa Jean dating a NBA guy, Maitland being married, etc
The Tweet linked to is no longer available, but the messages the performer retweeted went beyond just being an enthisiastic fan. They were threatening.
There's no need to approach performers when they're out to breakfast with their families. Even if it's to thank them for their scenes, this doesn't seem appropriate in that setting. I suggest just leaving them alone, respecting their space, and letting them have a personal life. There are events such as AVN conventions specifically geared toward performers meeting fans and simliar EXXXotica type events all over the place. If fans are interested in meeting performers, those might be the best places. Sometimes, they may also appear at clubs or other places to interact with fans, but there's a time and place for that.
Also, if anybody is concerned about whether it's the actual performer responding to you in DMs, some do live webcam where you can interact with them in real time.
I do feel the same. I wouldn't entirely rule out signing up for the person in question's OF, but the sentiments they have shared and that we're now discussing left me scratching my head.
She's in my top 3 of 1990s stars with PJ Sparxx and Nikki Dial. I was always pretty box cover , narrative based porn watcher than the Max Hardcore-ish, bigger and more outrageous the better side. The "Stick 10 inches up the girls rectum" didn't resonate for me. I always found myself appreciating the classier side, though I have watched a fair share of plotless 'Gonzo' too.
Nikki Dial has returned via social media presence and has done tame but very enjoyable masturbation live streams for her OF supporters. Then last Friday, Dial did a live Q and A / ask me anything stream, over some morning coffee. Wholesome content.
She seems like an absolute sweetheart, I encourage any body to check her OF out, if it sounds like fun to you, to dip a toe in and see if you like it.
But, yes, I feel like Nikki Dial has come to terms with her past, there's an acceptance there, but certain others seem extremely bitter about everything looking at what they choose to put in their socials. Seemingly hell bent to the extent they appear to have been been radicalized, I suppose no different to many fringe Americans in the vice grip of Facebook (and their clones) echo chambers.
Of course, I don't know either, or any, porn people for reals; just my two cents on observing from afar.
Edited by - Helmuth Richler on 4/10/2023 6:57:31 AM
It's ironic how some pornstars support groups that are trying to eliminate their profession. The Religious Right is quickly taking over the GOP,, who have getting rid of indecency in all forms on their agenda.
Also sad to see how many performers gobble up the dribble that has no factual backing. Drag shows and Trans groups aren't out moleating kids and all you're doing is discriminating against a group that is doing nothing wrong.
I agree with what you posted, though not with the present tense in the above statement. The Religious Right took over the GOP in the late 70s. The GOP and the religious right are mostly one and the same.
They had a big spike during the late 70s through Reagans Presidency, but took a nose dive in the 90s and early 00s. Not shocking that it coincided with a drop in overall numbers of religious people. The Tea Party movement reinvigorated the religious wing of the GOP and it mixed with far right extremism post Obama.
yes, that's actually hilarious. And it's not just that, they're supporting people who think they are absolutely disgusting. And it's even more confusing to see adult performers saying they are very religious, while doing a work that is basically a concentration of every sin possible for religion and for that exact reason hated by a lot of religious conservative people. I don't understand how the head of certain people works. Probably it doesn't.
Depends on what religion we are. Not every religion is against porn. Like, there are various pagan religions or spirituality that don't oppose sex work and I don't think Buddism does either. Some religions might not take a stance on this. Some religions aren't into condemning or have a concept of sin.Edited by - Tessa on 4/16/2023 4:58:30 PM
I remember I looked at some pornstar's Twitter, and it wasn't just political views, there were conspiracy theories, that "everyone lying", the only thing missing was flat earth. It greatly affects the perception of a pornstar when you realize that she is not very smart. Her sexuality fades when you watch scenes.
I should have specified that I was mainly talking about christians (altough I suspect muslims may be even more strict about it) and for what I know there aren't kind of christians that are ok with being a sex worker. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm curious to know if there are exceptions that I'm not aware of.
Yeah, I figured you were probably speaking mainly about Christians since in the U.S. (not sure what country you're in), that's often what people mean when the term "religious" is used. Thus, if I say I'm religious, people may automatically assume I'm Christian unless I specify another religion or spiritual path. Anyway, there can be exceptions in Christianity because there are so many forms of this religion. Some Christians focus mainly on what Jesus said and not so much other parts of the Bible. From my understanding, there's no mention of Jesus denouncing sex work or LGBTQ people in the Bible. Please correct if I'm wrong. There are others in the Bible who denounce this, but that doesn't resonate so much with people focused mainly on Jesus.Edited by - Tessa on 4/17/2023 9:22:01 AM
"|I am following a not so known "porn star" from Cali on Twitter and Insta. Recently she wrote such weird political stuff, I was quite confused, what to think about it.
I agree, actually. In terms of marriage or in a relationship, I knew those all since I started in 2020 here, the only exception was just JuliaAnn. But you are right !
I'm not an expert but about homosexuality I've read this and about sex work there's one of the ten commendments that says "you shall not commit impure acts", which means basically that every sex act should be finalized to procreation (so no masturbation, no contraceptives, no sex as an activity finalized to pleasure) and there's also one that says "you shall not covet your neighbor's wife" and considering also that sex outside marriage is forbidden it's quite clear that porn is seen as a mortal sin, like even the pope said recently. But I'm not sure if there are christian groups that don't recognize the ten commendments.
I claim no expertise on the Bible and am not sure if it states acts that constitute impurity in the 10 commandments, but it's up to interpretation if it doesn't.
Onestly I don't think so, it's pretty clear that according to the commandments (and to the pope, that at least to the catholics is seen as the superior authority on these subjects) I don't see a lot of space for interpretation.
When you can't masturbate or waste seed, having sex outside marriage, having sex not finalized to procreation, you can't desire the woman or the man of someone else, having sex with someone of your same sex and all those are considered mortal sins, well... porn is pretty much a combination of all those things together for both those who do porn and those who watch it.
I'm not sure you can do much worse than that from the perspective of christianity (I mean real christianity, not the DIY christianity that is so in vogue today), at least for catholics, but I guess for everybody who wants to respect the commandments too. It's like mortal sin + mortal sin + mortal sin + mortal sin in one act.
You may think that you're not damaging anybody and you're not doing anything wrong, but I don't think there's any way to reconcile porn with being a christian.
Since I don't identify as Christian, I feel no need to reconconsile porn with Christianity. However, it looks like you're describing cognitive dissonance with people who are. Christianity also says we're all sinners so some people may reconcile it in this way- that humans are a work in progress and nobody is perfect. To be clear, this isn't to express my personal opinions or religious beliefs. Personally, I have no more religious qualms with porn, sex work, masturbation (which may be the safest form of sex), sex outside of marriage, polyamory, and so on. However, I may have some problems with certain content or working conditions, but that has nothing to do with religious objections to porn.
Additionally, focusing strictly on religious beliefs ignores the economics of porn. Even if a performer agrees with everything you mentioned, they may still have economic needs and find porn the best way to meet these. People may call this hypocracy, but people's decisions may be based on more than just religion and I imagine we've all experienced cognitive dissonance whether Christian or not; whether porn performers or viewers, or not. This also reminds of a saying connected to the Bible (Garden of Eden): "The forbidden fruit tastes better." In other words, the more something is considered sinful or suppressed, the more appealing it can be. Also relevant to this Biblical story, there's a major porn production company called Adam and Eve.
pretty much.it's very likely, there's an episode of the Simpsons where Bart summarize that attitude with an hilarious "Why can't I worship the Lord in my own way, by praying like hell on my death bed." The funny thing it that a lot of people who consider themselves christians think exactly like that.completely understandable.
All For Us - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Jan 23 2023 : 1:16PM
