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| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 |  Posted - Dec 5 2008 : 5:11PMAlthough there is rather detailed review of this movie at the RAME newsgroup, linked here: http://www.rame.net/reviews/misc/3754.html I note that even when there are overlapping scenes IAFD in the "scene breakdown" section lists them separately: http://www.iafd.com/title.rme/title=L%27amour/year=1984/L'amour.htm For instance the scene in which Jamie Gillis and Harry Reems pick up two girls (Nikki Randall and Ivory Essex) in a bar and take them back to their apartment. There Randall blows Jamie Gillis, while Ivory Essex appears to be blowing Harry Reems (I'll get to that in second). Things are not what they appear to be and the two men hightail it out of there when the two women want to go further. IAFD lists the scene as being two separate ones which is not the case, the action takes place in a (living) room on a couch with all 4 participants there. There is no overlap and no separate scene. Harry is on the left, with Samantha (Ivory Essex) on her knees with her back to the camera appearing to blow him (her head is bobbing up up and down, but nothign is seen, except a close up lasting all of 5 seconds where she is seein sucking a limp dick, but it cannot be determined that it is Harry Reems, and due to the way the whole scene is framed one would suspect that Harry Reems was not the actor, but someone else doubled for him in that "insert" shot). Jamie Gillis is on the right side of the couch with her friend Leslie (Nikki Randall) a bit to the side clearly showing her face, his face and him being fully erect and being blown. Then Ivory gets up (her back still to the camera) and pulls up her dress, a front shot is shown of her (but face not shown) holding a fully eret and large dick. Is it Ivory? Maybe, and maybe not, but why all this hide and seek? IAFD only lists one other film for Ivory Essex (CORRUPT DESIRES-1983) directed by Kim Christy which I have never seen, so I am unable to compare Ivory's naughty parts in both films. Kim Christy was making T/s movies around that time and t/s were appearing in a number of straight hc movies (with Vanessa Del Rio, Bunny Bleu). The way the scene was shot it is very doubtful Ivory is blowing Harry Reems. A couple of other things I should mention: =I clocked the film's running time at 85 minutes (IAFD indicates 82 minutes) =Ginger Lynn is billed as Ginger, while Nikki Randall is billed as Rachel Whitney =There are a number of non-sex roles which involve bar customers (Janet Wheeler, Beverly Homan, Bill White). I have no clue who they are, or who is who.  [Link] |
Jeff @ IAFD  Webmaster IAFD.COM 931 Posts 6/00 | Posted - Dec 6 2008 : 12:45AM So we list Harry/Ivory and Jamie/Randall as seperate scenes because by not listing them as such, the "check pairings" search would show a hit between Harry / Randall where none existed. (Assuming they didn't hook up later in the movie, of course.) Faked sex is nothing new in movies of that era. As Pachard was so fond of saying "They *are* movies, you know." So it wouldn't surprise me if Harry didn't want to be blown by the tranny so they stunt-cock'd it. We made the other changes.  [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 6 2008 : 2:09AM Say for instance you never saw the movie and all you had were the two movie reviews to go by (which by the way tell you nothing about the scene I have just described), and knowing Ivory Essex is a trannie (which IAFD so clearly indicates) anyone would incorrecently conclude not only that the scene is separate but that Reems is having sex with a trannie. However on close inspection, we know that is not the case. Having said this, although I don't know Reems' personal gender "affiliations", we know Gillis has/had a wilder side, so what were Albauch and Remy thinking about when they were setting up this scene? Would it not have been more logical to have Reems paired with Randall and Gillis with Ivory? There would not have been any use for all this silly trickery! Now back to the question of "pairings": there are scenes (in old and new hc movies) where there are say 4 participants. IAFD does not necessarily list them separately, but (at least for more modern movies) lists them in the same scene (in the "scene breakdown"), but you have no clue whatsover (unless a movie review may be available to clarify things) who is paired with who (sometimes they remain separate, and sometimes they change partners throughout the scene). So Jeff, based on these observations you have to admit there are odd inconsistencies in the way the database is set up. [Link] |
| Jeff @ IAFD Webmaster IAFD.COM 931 Posts 6/00 | Posted - Dec 8 2008 : 11:33PM This movie, like most pre-1989 movies, was started by Peter and he had his own way of doing things, that we've done our best to emulate or improve upon. However, any improvements we may have made were certainly not backfilled -- the amount of work to do that is staggering, so we say "from here out, we'll do it this way, and if people complain about a title, we'll fix it then." There's no other real way to manage the workload. We're the ultimate long tail website -- some titles are never looked at in the space of a week, month, year -- so its easy to lose track of them. This is one of those times when the comments field should come into play, and now that it's pointed out to us, you can check it out. Unfortunately, we're tied into a table format at this point and that doesn't appear to be changing any time soon. This limits how we might want to do some things. The scene breakdowns are one of those times. Perhaps a better word is "pairing breakdown" but as you say, sometimes it'll say "Orgy" and that's a bunch of different pairings thrown together. If people swap partners within a scene, we'll list them all together -- since they all worked together in the scene. We usually only break a scene up (ideally, they'd be called 6A and 6B, but we can't do that right now) when there's not swapping within the scene. We like to think that we give enough information for people to be able to made a pretty decent decision regarding the titles they're looking for. When we don't -- we usually hear about it, and we adjust as best we can. Edited by - Jeff @ IAFD on 12/8/2008 11:36:53 PM [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 9 2008 : 2:50AM I think the pairing inconsistencies are more apparent for older titles, and I suppose we will have to live with the way scene breakdown scheme was arranged way back when. I pointed this out because of the "unusual" pairing and inclusion of a she-male in this particular movie. One got the impression Harry Reems was in a single separate scene with a she-male and that at least oral sex (on she-male or Reems?) was involved. Since she-male scenes in straight hc scenes were rather rare and unusual at the time (and they still are for straigh hc movies) for "archeological" record one should make an effort to be more concise and correct. It is a difficult endeavor because a lot of these movies are quickly disappearing (very old, many not remastered on DVD, original distributor out of business, etc) and there is a floodgate of new movies coming out every month. I have seen the comment change for this movie and I appreciate your interest and time in modifying the database. [Link] |
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