Saki, Being a moderator, you've been vested the power to oversee discussion forum. But does that mean that you have the right to allow only those discussion that you see fit to be opened. I'm inquiring about you locking discussion forum on "Slap Happy". Please do not treat as a personal attack, because it's not intended to be. Let me ask you this, what is the purpose of discussion forum if all the participants could not be allowed to talk whatever they want to? Sure, sometimes people could tend to make it personal, but who haven't? But those opinions of people are what that counts as the core, in other words: true purpose of the discussion forum. If that's simply not the case, what's then the purpose of this website adultdvdtalk.com?
Thanks for the honest feedback, JiGGY, and let me be equally honest: That topic was beaten to death (I purposely didn't use that phrase because of the thread's subject matter). Points were made on both sides ad nauseum, and while it was an interesting debate, I saw a lot of stuff being repeated, often by the same people. It was one of those topics--like politics or abortion--that has no rational conclusion.
Additionally, the tone of the thread was getting more and more personal--understandably so, given the emotions the topic embodies--and combined with the lengthy discussion, I made the call that it was best to call a cease-fire.
I think discussion is important, but all of the moderators and the owners of this site have tried to keep things pleasant. I think that 50 posts on a given topic, especially one that was a troll post to begin with (since the original poster acknowledged that he was doing it to draw the strong reactions that it did), is a good-faith effort at allowing everyone to participate.
With that said, if anyone feels that they have something new to contribute to that topic, they are more than welcome to start another thread, which I'll oversee with the same standards as the previous one.
Thanks for your feedback, and absolutely no offense taken. I don't think I overstepped my bounds as a moderator, but if I did, I'm more than willing to admit that.
Saki
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sonic Deactivated User
1178 Posts 12/99
Posted - Jan 5 2001 : 10:12AM
We could have avoided all this..we could have avoided the thread from turning nasty when in the first place it was supposed to be closed when Mr. Alek attacked Jeff.
Saki, I commend your decision. Eventhough I never got a chance to contribute cause I was trying to think up a lyric about not disrespecting women. I thought about doing cliff notes again but I really didn't want to read the whole thing.
One point that should be made is that when a post just becomes a long back and forth between two parties it really loses the appeal of a forum discussion and would be better served through email. Let me know how you feel about this Saki, then I will respond and you can respond then I may further extend the post and you can use the forum to get back to me if you want.
I can take it! I've had worse! (And please, call me Jeff...)
(In all frankness, it's a relief to see some other moderators be questioned and have "free speech" thrown in their face. -- I thought those actions were reserved for us RAME MODs! Brothers in arms unite!)
But I totally agree with Saki's actions -- just because something was not done earlier does not mean it should not be done at all. (Even if it does mean closing the barn door after the horse ran out once in a while...)
All sides of the issue were covered; and for me, any other discussion was just rehash. Add into that some history lessons about Nazism (no offense Speedsy!) and you've run the course.
The only further discussion could really be a poll -- "How many like Slap Happy" and keep it to "Me" or "Not Me" answers.
Good timing and reasons on locking it down Saki. When it mostly becomes a bunch of presonal attacks and cry baby actions (although there were some good reactions also), there's no need for it to continue.
Yes, JiGGY, I think Saki was right to euthanise that particular thread. Though everyone was clearly pumped up, we were starting to flounder a bit...kind of like a long married couple that keep dredging up those same old bones-of-contention. Hidell's bullying tactics were no doubt expected and well handled by those on the receving end. But when Hitler, followed by Stalin and Mussolini, started making posthumous appearances (admittedly the result of my own misguided invocation), I was kind of relieved to have the plug pulled, as Spesedy & I had our first, but probably not last, fight (BTW, I think you're A LOT of fun), . That said, however, I rather enjoy a good debate. I've heard the war stories re: rame, and agree that we don't want this to happen here, as I can only imagine that it would drain your soul after time. But, I don't see anything wrong with a lively debate, it keeps things interesting. As long as no one gets seriously hurt, they can be thought provoking, air-clearing & fun. I'm trying to learn not to be so hot-headed, to think things thru before I speak. I also would like to be able to keep my yap shut as well, but I'm afraid this is a less realistic goal. So, stick around, JiGGY.. I'm sure something will come up! And I doubt if we've heard the last of Mr. Hidell, although I can't think of any more to say in that regard - but I do thank him for sparking this flash-fire that almost got out of control!
The only way to stop it is to overpower the bad talk with good talk.
If you over-moderate and close threads regularly, you run a chance of losing your better posters to frustration.
If you let the idiots run rampant, you run a chance of losing your better posters to boredom or frustration.
Instead you need to ignore the problem posters and not give up on your forum or forums that might be new to you.
I'm biased, of course, but I don't think RAME is nearly as bad as our reputation might make us seem.
Do we have assholes posting? Sure. Can you ignore them? Absolutely. They're like your teeth -- ignore them an they'll go away. :-)
Start helpful threads and cultivate them.
If I (and a few others) didn't take Hidell's bait; the thread would have been a page, not 4. (I should know better; but Extreme and their antics drive me nuts...)
There's plenty of room in the online adult fan world for all forums; and usually enough time in a day to read and participate in them all.
Jeff - I for one am glad you did respond, and as abhorrent as I find Hidell's work and attitude, I enjoyed the interaction, and kind of wish there were more of these. But not having been through any kind of flaming war, and not 100% sure even what that involves, I'll take their word for it that it's not what people would want here. I agree with your thoughts on the delicate balancing act it takes to maintain a middle ground, I just need a little clarification on a couple things you suggested "The only way to stop it is to overpower the bad talk with good talk." By this do you mean, for instance, if we just ignored Hidell's rantings & ravings & talked about the good works from another studio? Hmm..but then, we would have missed the entertainment! And like it or not, he is, unfortunately a fact of life. All good talk in this world of porn would leave us little to talk about, I'm afraid. And let's face it, the bad talk is what's more exciting, and little chance of running out of subject matter ; )
If you over-moderate and close threads regularly, you run a chance of losing your better posters to frustration. Totally agree
If you let the idiots run rampant, you run a chance of losing your better posters to boredom or frustration. Agree here too, but just to clarify - idiots who are obnoxious, overly opinionated on everything, or perhaps the ones that just want to know who has the biggest tits? Or all of the above?
Wow, it must seem like babysitting a bunch of nasty kids, sometimes, huh? Not an enviable job, but not a boring one either. thanks J
This one was OK because it was more or less reasonable until Hidell's penultimate post where he went nuts.
But if we never said anything, we may have been slightly porror without the thread, but Hidell wouldn't have gotten the "press" he was looking for either...
Flamewars have their place; the problem is when they become the place. It would haveeb easy to get in a flamewar with Hidell -- he calls me a moron, I call him an idiot; he calls me a pussy, I call him a small-dicked momma's boy... and it goes on. If my retorts were truly insprired and funny they might be worthwhile -- and that's what you look for in a flamewar. If they were just mean -- then who needs that? Take it to e-mail. :-)Yep. The thread would have passed. He only has as much power as you (and I) give him.Exactly -- and we'll come back to this...Which is why flamewars enjoy the popularity they do... much more exciting to watch some folks mix it up sometimes...Well, all of the above in moderation (no pun intended.)
You can have Hidell who will NEVER budge on the rough sex issue (for instance) but he can be totally cool on all other levels... so you try to keep out of rough sex discussions with him. But if all you have are rough sex threads...
Or Poster X who replies to EVERY thread just to hear himself talk... must be ignored.
The "big tits" threads come from people who aren't really looking to make any sort of investment in the group. I call them hit-and-run posters. They show up, ask a question and move on. Big tits threads are havily popluated with hit-and-runners... mostly because the regulars already know who has the biggest tits and who among them likes whom...
... and you left the belt at home...I could do without the excitement sometimes.
In most discussions, there would likely to occurs all kinds of debates. A debate by its own nature consists of attacks and defenses. A debate is a form of war. It is normal for people to treat anything they say as personal. Now, how can you say that in a debate there could be no what you call "a bunch of personal attacks and cry baby actions" Of course it would be one. When people engage in a debate, there is a likehood that they would treat it as personal. If you ask me why, it's because, people, I mean we, tend to justify every words we speak, because we are afraid that those words would sound just like another cheap salesman's talk. In justifying those words, there would be a time, when our own validity is being questioned by our opponents, or even collegues. Now how do you defend your ideas, or your words, when your listeners doubt them? Would you rather Zipped, silence all your opponents by locking their discussion capabilities. It could be a solution, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, even our government in the 50's had been very successful at that. You could not speak up for those minority interest groups without being labelled Communists in the 50's. If locking discussion is a proper solution for silencing those "bunch of personal attacks and cry baby actions", why don't we just simply set the limit how long a topic could contain discussions, let say about 11 or 12 before it could explode into those "bunch of personal attacks and cry baby actions" and then lock the discussion topic. Of course this is just a simple suggestion from a simple guy.
Jeff - thank you for taking the time to explain these things to me, it's been very helpful. I've tried checking out rame several times, but my browser always "times out" before it can load, so you must be very busy over there! But, I will keep trying. Clearly, there are some of us enjoy brain stimulation as well as genital, and don't mind playing a little rough. Just look at this thread on locking the other thread! Thanks again...........DB
Actually, you need a newsreader to read RAME. The forum software won't let me add a news:// link, so I can't give you a direct link. (You can try to cut and paste news://rec.arts.movies.erotica into your browser if you have a newsreader set up)
If you're on a Windows platform, I recommend XNews as a great newsreader.
If you prefer, you can also use DejaNews to access RAME
