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All Forums > Sex Talk > Sex Talk Forum Page 56 > *Loose women in the world, but no loose men?*
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VictoriO
Member


379 Posts
8/01
Posted - Jan 28 2003 : 5:47PM
Lately, I have been coming down on myself for my own success, asking myself so many hard, hard questions, bugging myself on success, embettering myself, reading books and I have been reading Elizabeth Wurtzel & Les Brown books. I have been asking myself "Is there a such thing in the world as a loose woman but there's no such thing a loose man?!" And even the mind-bending "Why are boys raised differently from girls?"

Everyone in the world is dysfunctional in their own ways. Women, men, children, teens, adults, elderly people, everyone in the world is so screwed the f*ck up!

In my Ethics class, I have made many heads turn, about 2 months ago, with talking about this worldwide notion that there are loose women, but not loose men. I had made this comment because of what I know, not because of what I didn't know blabbering about things I have no idea about like some people (being young and dumb). I do understand that many things are better left unsaid, but here's my envision on it...

Think about it: it's not just on TV, music and media. It's in the real world, too! Why is it that when guys have sex with different people, they are considered as heroes by other guys and even certain women, but when a female sleeps around with different people, she is considered as nasty, slutty or a person with no self respect? Men have freedoms women don't have as well as women have many freedoms men do not have and as guys, we have to take bigger responsibilities in what we do. AT ALL TIMES!

Just like... why is it that when you see lesbian women hold hands or kissing, many people think it's the cutest thing in the world while when we see gay guys kissing and fiddling with eachother, we are so terrified by it?! One friend of mine, we talked about this when I was 17 and he was 17 too. I've asked him this same question and he says "Because this is a male-dominated society!" He did not have to say anything else afterwards.

Why ARE boys and girls raised differently? I mean, girls mature faster than boys do. My sister is 14 and she was 1 hex s more mature than me when I was 14 and even more mature than me now in many ways. One reason why IS because of this notion. Ask yourselves this is you are a female... If you had a brother, was he allowed more freedoms and was allowed to stay out later when he was 15-17 than you when you were that same age? Because of the fear that your parents have that you will lose this "innocent young girl" label that they have wanted you to carry for as long as you could or as long as they have made you?

All I am doing is stating trends. Not coming down hard on anyone.

In my ethics class, I had talked about statutory rape and how I feel much of it is a bunch of bullsh*t. I don't care what the law says about statutory rape. That law was created because many people feel like anyone under the "super" age of 18 should not have sex because they do not know what it means and they want to have it just to have it? Give me a break. Many adults have it just to have it... with people they have only known for days, weeks, as they are drunk/high, whatever. There are a shitload of 13-17 year old boys who have this idea that any beautiful woman who will let them screw, let alone see them naked, they will think that it's a God-send. This attitude many not be good or healthy, but hey! That's life. There are things that I believe can mess up a teenage child's mind worse than this that many people do not pay attention to! Sad, isn't it? I think so! When an adult woman has sex with an underaged boy, it is actually not the same as an adult man screwing an underaged girl!

But then again... look at this, too! The Who's guitarist and R. Kelly gets ridiculed by many of us (males and females) for "child porn or statutory rape." But... what if Thursday (or in the future), we hear about Gwen Stefani or Madonna screwing a 14/15 year old boy/letting the young boys break their virginities to them, would we despise them that much for it??? Would it get to the point where we would not want to buy anymore No Doubt or Madonna cds like many people choose not to buy R. Kelly's music anymore since the rumors about him? I do not think so! Prove me wrong!

Is it true that when all young boys think about is sex and that as long as a female is beautiful, we want to screw and we can get away with it from our fathers letting us off the hook while teenage girls don't think about sex as much as teenage boys do and teenage girls only want sex from some guy who can knock them off their feet and rock their world? And if some parents' teenage daughter came home and says "I had sex with Mr. Red", then it's like their world will come to an end and they will be livid (5 degrees past pissed)? And is this another reason why they are raised differently?

Why is it that guys hate women who sleep around with 20 different guys in a month or women who get drunk and screw 3 or more guys one night, but at the same time, we want to sleep with as many beautiful females as we can? We want the beautiful women to conform and give in to us, sexually, but we hate the ones who sleep around with as many guys as possible? Is it because maybe we expect more out of women because they give birth to our children and they hold the future in their hands or is it just because we, as guys, are just plain stupid???

Yes, teenage years are a hard time for girls. I can assume it's because of how they are viewed and chased after by young boys. I MAY BE WRONG. IF I AM, SAY IT! Teenage years are a hard time for boys too. Wurtzel said in her book "BITCH", that it's because this trajectory for boys are so demanding. She says "you want to be a man, be harder, stronger, (be smarter than the typical American man) and lay as many beautiful babes as possible. There's so much pressure built in for this demand for accumilation... These young boys think that if you are going harder, higher and faster, then unless you wind up in a car accident, you are doing the right thing." Is it the same way of why teenage girls have so much pressure on them because of the pressure they may recieve from boys and/or they want to be as beautiful as the girl in the fashion magazine or is it honestly worse than this?

If not or if yes, then why is it that people come down harder on teenage boys and how they act and this-that? Is it because we have to have more responsibilities as men than women do? Is this another reason why it's OK for women to explore their sexuality in so many ways while guys can't have the same luxuries? Why is it that we look at our fathers or our uncles as heroes when they sleep around with every Anita, but we despise our aunts for sleeping around every Tom, Dick or Harry she brings to her home? It's because we are just plain stupid and contrary, living in a fantasy world or what exactly is it?

When I had mention some of this in my Ethics class, this lady had said "People should get off of this notion of how 'boys will be boys'." Well, if boys should be boys, girls should be girls. But if people got off of that notion, would you forsee how much more boring and chaotic this world would be? Ice-T's book "The Ice Opinion" said some of the most truest things that I would know regarding this and he talked about the hormones in boys and the drive for sex and that "...it is what helps men wake up in the morning. If the male's drive for sex were to be eliminated, then the whole economy would crash. We would not be at work, school, (grooming ourselves), etc... All we would do is get fat, eat and watch TV. Why do you think many men (young and old) want to be successful? To have access to women. The feeling is innate in us!" These are feelings in the male species that cannot be taken away from us. If they were, we would have no reason to live. No reason to become successful, well many of us.

Is it because of this notion why boys and girls are not raised with the same expectations and why sex doesn't mean the same thing to both?! Why they should not act the same
way? Is this why females get offended when people SAY that there's no such thing as a loose guy, but there are a world of loose women, even though, in many instances, they get treated like this?

If there ARE loose men, who are they? The ones like R. Kelly? Pedophiles? Perverts? Homosexuals? Men who have massive child support problems and who abandon a village of females after they get them pregnant???

Edited by - victorio on Jan 28 2003

Topic Moved by - Steph on Jan 29 2003

lindi
Senior Member

12345
3205 Posts
9/02
Posted - Jan 28 2003 : 7:06PM
I bet we ALL have a story for this one.

When I was 16 (and a virgin), my mom found out I had done blow jobs on guys and she brought me up in front of a judge to try to have me declared incorrigible and put in a home for juvenile delinquents (the judge threw it out).

This happened within a month or two after the day she found something in one of my 15 year old brother's desk drawers and called her boyfriend over to see it. From my room across the hall I could see them beaming and thrilled by whatever-it-was. I went over later to check it out. It was a box of condoms.

I see evidence all around me that women who seek and find a measure of sexual acceptance feel like they have to act as warriors against sexual shame.

Ishamael1
Member

New Zealand
81 Posts
12/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 12:00AM
These questions get raised a lot, and I don't know if I think differently to other people or not to be honest, certainly my own friends all have pretty much the same opinion on the matter as me.

When a person sleeps around for the sake of sleeping around, when they have sex with people not because of any kind of attraction, then I think thats a little sad, regardless of whether or not they are male or female. Its simply that they feel society has required them to perform an act that is subconciously against their will.

On the other hand, if somebody enjoys having sex, enjoys having multiple partners, and is not hurting anyone else by doing it, hell, go for it! Screw ya brains out, we only get one life and I for one plan to enjoy the one I've got, I hope everyone else does the same. I for one am not going to vilify anyone for it.

In saying that, porn I guess is a little different, its a job. Some people enjoy their work, some people don't, in that regard I guess porn is exactly the same as any other kind of job. I think it would be very unfair of anyone to label any porn star as a slut or any other kind of derogatory sexual remark, because when it comes right down to it, it is a job.

Mythsong
Member

306 Posts
8/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 12:36AM
Actually, to be specific, the legal issue isn't that they're under the age of 18, but that somebody 18 or over is involved with them. If both parties are under 18 it's not a crime.

However, your intended point, and your entire post, is very well taken. I've always hated double-standards myself. And, yes, you're right. Our society is still rife with sexist (and racist, and culturally prejudiced) attitudes, despite all of the progress that we've made. I find it both disappointing and appalling, and I always do the very best I can to not fall prey to them myself, and to point them out to others. Double-standards need not be negative per se (women get to wear both an engagement ring and a wedding ring, men only get to wear a wedding ring - something I've thought was "odd" but not actually harmful), but at best they are short-sighted (accepted without any thought) and at worst they are actively intolerant (in such cases causing harm to the party being repressed / judged unfairly).

A loose [] in my books, is anybody who has nothing but an ongoing series of short-term sexual relationships, who doesn't value people for anything other than their own immediate gratification, who treats others with disdain and just as a means to an end. Just as many men (or, more likely, more) fill that role as do women.

Edited by - Mythsong on 1/29/2003 12:46:12 AM

lou sapphire
Member

Take the plan, spin it sideways.
685 Posts
9/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 12:40AM
theres plenty of loose men over at gay dvd talk!
 
Mythsong
Member

306 Posts
8/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 12:53AM
Considering her reaction to just oral sex, it's a good thing she didn't find the box of condoms in your desk drawer!
(Of course, it might also have been interesting to see how your mother would have reacted if she'd found out that your brother had been giving guys blowjobs.) <grin>
Hardware All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Your other left
14596 Posts
3/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 4:24PM
Consider a few facts Victorio:
1) Men don't get pregnant, women do.
2) If you, a male, want to pass on your genes, you don't want your woman screwing any other guy and lessening your chances of doing so.
3) If you're a male, impregnating as many women as possible increases your chances of passing on your genes.

So you see, for a patriarchical society, the difference in attitude towards boys and girls' sexual behavior makes perfect sense.

The fact that the pill gave women control over when they got pregnant blew much of the logic behind societal attitudes out the window. Unfortunately, societies tend to devolve logic into dogma, hence the sexual revolution.


BTW, the fact that sex drives the economy is old news. Sorry Ice-T.

lindi
Senior Member

12345
3205 Posts
9/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 7:49PM
Is anyone here making an attempt to raise their daughters in a better way?

We have a two-edged sword here. This type of patriarchy operates at the expense of our daughters. If they buy into "sex is dirty" and the good-girl/bad-girl or virgin/whore crap, they have to either rebel, or they flower late or not at all.

The sons have the alternative to marry a good girl, who doesn't like to give head, etc. Or, as I commonly hear, to marry a seemingly sexually adventurous woman (bad girl), who might then settle into a mommy role (good girl).

I'd really like to know what thoughtful efforts the parents on this website are making to model healthier sexual attitudes.

GaySatyr
Senior Member

Half dirty ol' man; half horny ol' goat!
1684 Posts
10/00
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 10:33PM
LOL! Especially those who are DAP bottoms or into being fisted!

~ GaySatyr

Mythsong
Member

306 Posts
8/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 11:08PM
That really should have far less bearing on anything than it does. Personally, I believe the whole pregnancy issue to be a convenient excuse / cop out / way of justifying short-sighted attitudes. Just like the condescending "it must be her time of month" comment that drives me absolutely up the wall. What about the, let's say, 95+% of the time that women aren't getting pregnant?
The reverse is also true. If you, a female, want to pass on your genes, you don't want your man screwing any other women and lessening your chance of doing so.

(Of course, both of the above pre-suppose that you want to pass on your genes with your partner. If you don't care who the other parent is then, man or woman, fidelity doesn't rate highly at all and everybody, male or female, should be as promiscuous as possible - assuming that procreation is the first priority.)

Again, if you're a woman, being impregnated by as many men as possible increases your chances of passing on your genes.
Yes, but in a matriarchal society it would be just as easy to justify female chauvanism by using the exact same arguments.
I don't think that there was much "logic" in pre-historic social distinctions between the sexes - it was merely brute instinct. Now that we've progressed beyond that stage, and can actually think for ourselves. It's only because of changing attitudes that we are, finally, becoming intelligent and logical about things.

Edited by - Mythsong on 1/29/2003 11:15:10 PM

Mythsong
Member

306 Posts
8/02
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 11:12PM
How about raising their sons in a better way? I'm wholeheartedly in favour of women taking control of their lives and not putting up with patriarchal bullshit, but wouldn't things be better still if there weren't any patriarchal bullshit for them to fight against in the first place? To accomplish that we need to change the way that boys are raised so that it's not simply perpetuated.

It's not a one-sided issue by a long shot. In fact, that's the point. Little Johnny should not be automatically praised and congratulated when condoms are found in his drawer, just as Little Jenny should not be automatically denigrated when she's found out to be sexually active. Both should be treated in the same way, somewhere in the middle with a modicum of common sense and caution, but also an awareness of the child's maturation and growth as a person.

Edited by - Mythsong on 1/29/2003 11:18:41 PM

folkyboy
Member

162 Posts
1/03
Posted - Jan 29 2003 : 11:14PM
it took me a minute to realize what DAP was! and yeah, there are some loose ass men! i think i wrote a review about it once...haha
VictoriO
Member

379 Posts
8/01
Posted - Jan 31 2003 : 8:56PM
another thing i had forgot to mention about even how we view our fathers and uncles as heroes for sleeping around, but we despise our aunts for it...

i personally believe that men, in many ways, do not hide their sexualities a lot. Not even in front of their children. Women, on the other hand, do hide it and they are damn good at it, too! Prime examples... my aunt, Madonna, Pamela Anderson Lee, etc...

(I would love to see the look on Madonna's daughter's face when she grows up and learn about how her mother had slept with all of these different people. Not to mention, Dennis Rodman & Vanilla Ice! MY GOD!)

I never knew how whorish my aunt was until I was 16-17.
I always knew my dad was whorish, even when I was 9-10!

Is it because women are afraid that they will be despised for it, even by their own children (sons and daughters)? Maybe it is. Or maybe it's because of a mind game that women play, stupid pride or something else I have no knowledge of yet or too busy to think about at this moment.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, MYTHSONG! Yes, women get pregnant and they birth us all (although we did not ask to be here), but does that justify some of the games they play and how women are screwed up in their own ways? I only know about some of the dysfunctions in females but not as much as I know about the dysfunctions in guys. EVERYONE IS SCREWED UP. It's only easier for many of us to see the male dysfunctions because we are guys or (females) getting chased and (females and males) become labeled by them! At the same time, be careful of saying women are perfect but guys are terrible.

Hey, just like many guys are pathetic, dumb, losers, smelly, hairy, duped, incompetent and do not know how to treat people and curse worse than sailors and are dogs, women are picky, they are either too emotional (acting like symptomatic drama queens) or choose hold things in instead of letting things off of their chest and they always want someone to take care of them as if they cannot do it theirselves... as if they're teenagers. They always need for us to pay their bills, take them shopping and pamper them. Jenna Jameson had even said the same thing in her interview with Gene Simmons in TONGUE magazine.

Am I wrong? I may be, but if so, say it!

lindi
Senior Member

12345
3205 Posts
9/02
Posted - Jan 31 2003 : 9:25PM
Nope, you're right, everyone is screwed up, and many guys are hairy.

lou sapphire
Member

Take the plan, spin it sideways.
685 Posts
9/02
Posted - Jan 31 2003 : 11:28PM
i havent meet everyone in the world to generalise that
"everyone is screwed up"
we are who we are, take it or leave it....
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