do you think the american public will ever be sophisticated enough to except hardcore in feature mainstream movies and make them show a profit?- i am refering to high budget movies with fantastic scripts.some programs on tv come close now.
I watched the HBO show but thought it was pretty boring so I kinda zoned out. When was the Handjob scene? As for hardcore in Movies it's been done several times to my knowledge in relatively low budget movies and hasn't been that well received. There's probably a lot more examples but apart from the Brown Bunny these are the only ones I can recall. 9 Songs - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411705/ Intimacy - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0256103/ Baise-moi - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0249380/
You want a toe? I can get you a toe 1131 Posts 4/06
Posted - Sep 13 2007 : 6:02AM
The handjob on tell me you love me of course wasn't real but rather a prosthetic.
[Link]
tittysucker86 Deactivated User
florida 218 Posts 2/07
Posted - Sep 16 2007 : 1:19PM
"and god created woman" starring rebecca demornay. really hot scene. shes topless getting fucked by a prisoner up against a wall. then theres Mimi rogers getting rubdowns by brian brown, the australian guy from f/x in "full body massage" lot of shots of her tits. theres the rape scene of jerry mcconnel date raping tara reid in some movie I dont remember the name of. no hot sex, but look for "wisegirls" with mariah carey and mira sorvino. look for lesbo between jennifer tilly and gina gershon in bound, but that one was too short and too edited. Get the dvd of the john travolta movie "the punisher" and do a fast screen pause on your dvd when they come to the four second shot of an illegal casino. you'll see a cocktail waitress walk across the shot for about two seconds, but if you're a tit lover, you'll see the most amazing pair of tits.
No leave hardcore to the adult film industry. I don't want to sit there with my family worrying that Tom Cruise might just whip his knob out and stick it in Angelina Jolies mouth! err... OK I would like to see that :) but not in a mainstream film.
I was thinking of posting a topic about this myself for a while now. Guess someone finally beat me to it. You can find quite a big list of explicit sex scenes in movies at wikipedia. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing it in real mainstream films as it has not happened yet. Most of the movies you hear about(i.e: Brown Bunny, 9 songs, etc) are film fetival small low budget films that aren't big at all. As far as a mainstream, blockbuster, well known film with well known people doing explicit things in film. I wouldn't hold my breath too long for that. But anything can happen. It probably wouldn't get released in theaters. The footage would more than likely make it on the unrated version of the dvd.
yep.....really america is still too uptight about these sort of things.....i mean there was congressional hearing into janet jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" at super bowl 2004.....the right-wing born-again evangelical christian faction in the US is just too zealous & powerful for real sex to make it on wide-release mainstream screens anytime soon
European movies are much more adult. I do remember a penthouse movie that had a few main stream stars quite a few years ago.It was one of those roman period movies. Wasnt to bad. I like romantic comedies(chick flix)a think these would be great for a little added sex scenes. I loved those movies jonathan use to act in .Funny as hell with a little sex mixed in. Sex and comedy are great together. Look at burlesque. Used to pack the people in. Even in dramas or action films it sure would make them more like real life. Of course most star names would probally use body doubles in usa. There are some porn stars out there that can act. With a good script and a decent budget. Who knows . Getting someone to take a chance on producing such a feature and getting it distributed could be quite a chore. Know one is going to do it lest there be a profit involved thats for sure. I love porn as it is. I love feature films too. The two combined would be fantastic. Hopefully in my life time we will see this. By the way i am not suggesting it be rated g-pg-or r . Perhaps mature adult or x .
The only mainstream movie I know that had hardcore sex was the movie "Caligula",With Malcom McDowell,Peter O'Toole and Helen Mirren,The lady who played Queen Elizabeth.It was rated xxx.And at the movies it was only shown at midnight...
Two films starring the mainstream's version of Tommy Gunn, actor Mickey Rourke, are rumored to have had real sex. "9 1/2 Weeks" with Kim Bassinger and Mickey supposedly contained real fucking in a least one scene, and Mickey actually giving Kim head in the rain-in-the-back-ally scene that started off with them both dressed in mens clothes. There was a lot of film left on the editing room floor from this movie, and word is much of this discarded footage contained proof that Mickey and Kim went all the way. Interviewers are warned that this is a subject off-limits with Kim. The more widely circulated real-sex-with-Mickey story involves the Zalman King feature, "Wild Orchid". Although Canadian beauty Jacquline Bisset was the female lead, US model Carre Otis made her movie debut in this sexy Brazilian location shoot from the maker of "Red Shoe Diaries." Mickey and Carre began a long-term real life relationship during the filming, and several of the scenes (from the still photographs) appear to contain full insertion. Neither Mickey or Carre will confirm or deny they actually had sex. BTW, Mickey also is involved in the movie "Angel Heart" that had former Cosby-kid Lisa Bonet dancing around naked--with heavy simulated sex. All of which raises the question: do women really have such bad taste in men that Mickey Rourke is a turn-on to them?
Nope. Never. These days Hollywood is all about money and a major part of the ticket buying public are teens. That's why the majority of mainstream movies these days are PG and PG-13. From time to time "R" rated movies do well but it's usually an unexpected hit from the studios. I watch a special on the IFC channel where sex in movies was discussed and they all said mainstream Hollywood is moving farther away from nudity and sex in the movies. The 70s and early 80s were the best times for sex/nudity in the movies. Mr Skin was on Howard Stern a few days ago and said pretty much the same thing. Cinemax, HBO and the other movie channels that show "straight to video" type softcore stuff seem to be getting a bit more explicit than they once were but that might be because more porn actors/actress are doing those types of movies now and may be a lot less uptight than the "B" Queens that used to do so many of them.
'Shortbus' had quite a few explicit scenes, but it is one of the shittest films I've ever seen. All the characters in the movie are REALLY FUCKING IRRITATING!
Talk about it. I mean if they didn't have the balls to give Die Hard 4 an R rating like the fans wanted what shot does anyone think a major studio, a major director, and major actor and or actress will come together and say, we're going to work on a budget, and make a movie with sex scenes explicit enough to earn an NC-17 (and you don't have to get anywhere near pornographic to get NC-17 as there's a double standard with sex over violence on the ratings board). It's just not going to happen. Smaller Independent films are the ones that are going to push the boundaries of sex in Cinema. Places like HBO and Showtime do it as well to some extent. Hollywood definetly isn't going to do it. They're going in the other direction, getting more timid in what they show.
Yeah, Like I said it's a money thing and as long as PG-13 movies are usually the most profitable that's the kind mainstream directors and studios will try to continue to make. Nc-17 movies don't usually do well because in many places theatres won't show an NC-17 movie and most newspapers won't carry ads for them. They end up getting close to no exposure and just end up with a couple if any DVD sitting on the shelf in the video store and since it's usually a title/movie no one heard of most people ignore them. The movie SHOWGIRLS was supposed to be the movie that made NC-17 cool and acceptable again and when it bombed NC-17 rating was seen as the kiss of death for a movie. Even the "R" rated stuff isn't what it used to be as far as sex and nudity go. People today carry on about how "wild" movies like SUPERBAD and 40 YEAR OLD VIRGIN are but they really aren't anywhere near as raunchy as older "R" rated comedies like PORKY'S or FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH or most of the stuff in the 70s and 80s were.
Since we now seem to be talking about mainstream "trends", the latest is full-frontal nudity. Both male & female. There is lots of male nudity in current & up-coming films, with stars like Viggo Mortensen and Clive Owen showing dick or bum, and cable TV is going all out, forcing leading men to maintain non-stop personal trainers (and, in some cases, a trip to a penile enlargement surgeon). At one time, back in the late 1980s, I believed that porn performers would eventually be hired to do hardcore scenes in mainstream films. After all hot, young US directors like John Frankenheimer, Paul Shrader, Brian DePalma, Francis Ford Coppola--and even old relic, Blake Edwards--were hiring porn performers for bit parts. And Coppola was even spotted in the audience at an AVN. But it never happened. IMO the rapid growth of gonzo-porn, and its aggressive and degrading sex, turned-off these mainstream directors, and they backed away from any attempts to bridge porn and the mainstream. And tons of porn companies and directors kept their talent pool all to themselves.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 23 2007 : 5:11AM
A number of prestigious European directors have included hardcore sex in their films in recent years. These are pretty serious, slow paced art films though, so I don't think the majority of raincoaters would have the patience for them. Here are the few that I have seen: L'Humanite Pola X Romance Twenty Nine Palms The Life of Jesus (not actually about Jesus btw) Anatomy of Hell (Very freaky and French. Rocco stars in a real acting role, and he's good!) The Idiots (orgy scene, already mentioned above) I'm sure there are others that I haven't seen.
Yeah, for awhile I thought we'd see pornstars in more mainstream movies supplying the nudity and sex acts that mainstream actresses wouldn't do or being body doubles for uptight actresses or actresses with not so great bodies. The reason this didn't end up happening has more to do the Hollywood and the movies rating boards getting more and more uptight and ridgid in what they thought was "proper" for movie audiences. I've heard plenty of stories where pornstars said they were considered for various parts by directors/producers but someone higher up would catch wind of it and pressure them not to do it. I doubt it's because of "Gonzo" and it's "degrading" sex. The kind of Gonzo you're referring to hasn't been around that long and putting pornstars in high profile mainstream movies stopped quite awhile back. On a side note...Even porn movies don't show or allow certain things these days they used to. I've bought old mainstream porn videos from different places over the past few years and when they re-release it on DVD stuff is cut out. In other cases some old videos won't come out on DVD because of subject matter.
I'm going to stab you in the throat with a spork!!! 1048 Posts 12/06
Posted - Sep 23 2007 : 6:38AM
Ive heard Ken Park is supposed to get pretty raw, but the damn movie has never been released, either in theatres or on DVD...someone needs to get their head out of their ass and fix this...lol
I saw it and as much as I had anticipated the film, it is merely ok. The film is shocking and not just for the sex. Ultimately, Larry Clark has made better, more affecting films, in particular Bully and to a slightly lesser extent, Wassup Rockers. Kids too.
I don't agree with you. The fact is Hollywood movies are becoming more open and daring in showing full frontal nudity and sex acts, gay sex, and exploring sexual issues. What has changed, since the 1990s, is the "interest" by mainstream directors in seeing what's happening in porn--because, IMO, gonzo is basically boring. Had the porn biz been able to continue to be viewed as "experimental" by Hollywood's cutting-edge directors, it would have continued their familarity with "who" the porn performers are--and these directors calling upon the porners for his nudity and/or sex scenes. IMO you correctly point out that production companies and networks resist the hiring of porn performers. The reason is they are unwilling to allow their corporate image to be associated with performers who willingly perform in degrading sex acts, and videos that "bait"--such as "My Daughter is Fucking A N...." Or, be seen as supporting an industry where the females are routinely referred to as "sluts." Bottom line: "image" is very very important in Hollywood. And the porn biz (influened, IMO, by gonzo) has chosen to exile itself so far outside the mainstream that hiring porn performers is no longer an option. Would you do any differently?
KEN PARK will likely never be released in the States, as it explicitly (penetration, ejaculation, fellatio, cunnilingus) depicts sexual acts involving teenagers well under the age of 18. We have it in Scandinavia, and you can find subtitled and dubbed versions from retailers across Europe. Whether they will ship it to you in North America is another question. Zen
Wicked Pictures,Vouyer Media, Axel Braun Productions, Marc Dorcel, JoyBear Pictures, abbywinters.com 1390 Posts 7/05
Posted - Sep 23 2007 : 3:53PM
I had Zalman as a guest on a couple Wicked sets about three years ago, where he was shot interviews for a digital mens magazine that never quite got off the ground. While he's obviously totally comfortable in a hardcore setting, he mentioned he'd never shot hardcore variations on the love scenes in his features, although he has no problems with people believing otherwise. In his view, such rumors are always a testimony to the quality of the erotic content in such films, going back to Last Tango In Paris. He also mentioned some Bruce Dern movie called Tattoo, which I haven't seen to this day, was the subject of such speculation as well. In no way flaming or attacking your post, just passing along Zalman's thoughts on the subject.
Thanks for your comments. Zalman is a true Rebel on the Hollywood scene regarding exploring sexuality on film. His "Red Shoe Diaries" was a real ground-breaker on cable, and was the first times David Duchovny got any real notice. (BTW, the girl in the pilot for this series, Brigitte Bako, was totally hot with a Marisa Tomei quality. She should have been a mainstream sex symbol for that era, but once again, being a Canadian in the US probably hurt her chances for success). Still, Zalman has never gotten big-budget movies or quality indies to make. And when he gets quality performers (Denise Crosby, Joan Severance, Billy Zane) it's usually because their careers are in a slump...and they're looking for ways to create some buzz. BTW, I remember the movie "Tattoo" with Bruce Dern--and the girl he was suppose to have had sex with was former model (and two-time "Bond Girl") Lauren Hutton. As I recall it Bruce hinted during interviews that real sex took place, while Lauren (much like Kim Bassinger) wouldn't speak about this subject during interviews. Oh, and the movie was "Razzie"-level terrible.
It's fine by me if you disagree but where are these movies that are "more open and daring in showing full frontal nudity and sex acts, gay sex, and exploring sexual issues." from Hollywood? Yeah, the arthouse/indie/straight to DVD stuff may be showing that stuff and exploring those themes but mainstream Hollywood isn't. A few weeks ago I watched three specials on the IFC that talked about sex/nudity in movies today. It was various directors sitting around and talking about mainstream Hollywood and how uncomfortable it is with the subject of sex of any kind. Also, the diretors who would put pornstars in their movies back then basically did it because they were fans of a particular girl or because they just needed some good looking girls who weren't uptight about doing certain things in a scene. I don't remember ever hearing anyone saying they did it because of some artistic merit.Like I said before, the kind of Gonzo you're discribing hasn't been around that long and the practice of putting pornstars in mainstream movies stopped quite awhile ago. Plus I'm fairly sure the top brass in Hollywood view all porn the same and isn't making the distinction you're making. And certainly the word "sluts" has been thrown around in porn (and other places) from the very beginning.You obviously have some issues with Gonzo and you're blaming it for things it really has little to do with. Mainstream Hollywood is uptight about sex/nudity period. Porn is more acceptable these days than it's been in many years. If Gonzo was such a horrible thing to the mainstream then Jenna Jameson and Tera Patrick wouldn't be as well known as they are. The majority of mainstream people who are exposed to porn are mainly seeing the non-Gonzo VIVID and feature stuff that play on the adult cable and PPV channels.
Thanks for the correction. It was Maud Adams (another model turned actress) who was in Tattoo...and the two James Bond movies ["The Man with the Golden Gun" and "Octopussy."]. To me they look alike, and I keep getting them confused.
One more correction, mates: Although his participation was largely obscured by the prominent creative profile of Director Adrian Lyne, Zalman King was one of the primary producers responsible for bringing the 9 1/2 Weeks project to fruition. Arguably, it is the cult success of this picture that allowed his career to flourish in pay-cable and DTV soft-core. Zen
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 24 2007 : 3:03AM
I think the mainstream filmmakers flirtation with porn came to an end with the arrival of video and porn abandoning storylines, film and acting. Gonzo may have played a role in this but not until a decade later. Brian De Palma wanted to originally cast Annette Haven in Body Double. I doubt he'd be interested in casting Belladonna in a film, Annette had displayed some actual acting talent in her films, and had done some good films with Gary Graver and others that showed the promise that perhaps porn and 'real filmmaking' may not be opposites. Not so today. Early on in porn there were some directors, cinematographers and editors who went on to work successfully in the mainstream (under different names of course). But a lot of the better directors, etc in porn stepped out of the industry once storytelling disappeared.
What is it with some of you guys and Gonzo? At some point yeah, "film" went away but when exactly did feature/storyline and acting in porn go away? I'm not an expert but I can't tell of any point in porn when storyline porn wasn't being produced. From what I can tell companies like VIVID and a few others have been around since the 80s and doing storyline porn and before them the majority of porn had storylines.?!..."Not so today"? There are probably more porn girls acting in non-hardcore and hardcore movies than ever before. The majority of softcore movies on HBO, SHOWTIME, TMC, CINEMAX are almost completely cast with male and female pornstars. These types of movies of movies were also being done in the 90s. I see tons of these straight to video softcore movies when I go into the SUNCOAST VIDEO and SAM GOODY stores. Pretty porn stars who act and hardcore feature/storyline movies never went away as far as I can tell.
this is an interesting topic becasue i think porn is about to make a big cross over. i can't wait to go to the cinema and see double penetrations instead of some cheesy storyline about sexually frustrated women! i also saw this on the private blog about a movie they're doing, but i can't figure out if it is a real movie or a movie that looks real and has hardcore porno like you guys are talking about. i'm pretty interested because i like action movies and porn and it looks like both jason colt movie link on private
Let's say you're enjoying a Sunday afternoon with your family or friends or neighbors. Popcorn, chips, and some cold drinks. A gathering to watch the latest Hollywood Comedy or Action feature on DVD or on cable. Do you really wanna see a huge penis flipping around? or do you really wanna see an endless explicit-intercourse-scene where the woman is shouting and over-acting as if she is being ramed by an industrial tractor?? Let me know.
We're talking about actual penetration or male-to-female genital contact? Brown Bunny has been revealed to have had a prosthetic penis during the infamous blowjob scene. But Im not sure if it counts though the action simulated was graphic oral sex. Other past films that come close to having true hardcore scenes are: Dont Look Now(1973) Donald Sutherland & Julie Christie. Sutherland had his mouth dead in her muff. Eu Te Amo(I Love You)(1981) Sonia Braga. Celebrity Sleuth said this was as near to true hardcore as a mainstream film ever got. Though U.S. cable viewings in the 80s were dubbed and edited. American Gigolo(1979) Richard Gere, Lauren ?________her name escapes me. exposed his genitals full frontal. Was controversial at the time. James Joyce's Women(1983) Fionnula Flanagan. Flanagan is in an outstanding 9-minute full frontal monologue where she lies in a bed and masturbates herself to orgasm. this is a stunning scene and the camera doesn't flinch. Flanagan had a beautiful reddish/auburn hairy bush. Hard to believe it's the same woman who played Felicity Huffman's mom in TransAmerica. Still JJW is missing from dvd.
There is almost no difference between soft core movies and porn. Soft core isn't mainstream. It may be a tad more acceptable but its basically has the same artistic validity to hollywood. It just the buffer zone between porn and "real" movies.
I realize "softcore" isn't really "mainstream". The point I was making to the poster is that there are plenty of pornstars that act and appear in movies with actual stories today and that those type of movies have always been around and never went away.
Softcore movies plot are just barely a little better than porn movies with plot, which are also mostly bad. The main point is the nudity and such and not the line. I think the example he was using of body double is a real movie compared to them. I just think softcore/porn movies aren't big on acting and their is a difference. To me a better step is when porn girls got small roles on real movies. I just think doing a softcore movie is too little a step.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 30 2007 : 5:13AM
I have no problem with gonzo. In my post I was actually defending gonzo, which was being singled out as the cause for the decline of narrative in porn, which had taken place long before gonzo appeared. Features haven't disappeared but the features and acting today are not at the same level of Alex De Renzy, Anthony Spinelli, Gary Graver, Cecil Howard, Gerard Damiano, Armand Weston as directors or Georgina Spelvin, Veronica Hart, Jamie Gillis, Eric Edwards or Wade Nichols as actors. The best features today do not even approximate the best work of the 70s and early 80s.
I don't disagree with that entirely...The point I was trying to get across that when Gonzo came around Features and acting for porn didn't suddenly go away. It's debatable whether today's pornstars are as good as actors as the pornstars back then overall. I think having a good director and taking as much time as they did on movies back then is a big factor as to how the end product and acting turned out. The stars you name may have been good actors but I'm fairly sure that all pornstars of their time wasn't at their level. I've seen plenty of pornstars in the late night cable stuff and many of them aren't bad at all. If you compare them with the 70% of the actors/actresses that mostly get by on looks they do just fine all things considered. Anyway....The main thing I was having problems with in this discussion is people making blanket statements that features aren't around anymore and that today's pornstars don't act and only do Gonzo.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 30 2007 : 6:03PM
I know this is a bit OT, but who would you say is a good actor these days? First person that comes to mind is Randy Spears, but he came in right at the end of the old school days.
I don't need to see explicit sex in mainstream movies. Simulated does fine to get the point across. The thing that bothers me is nudity. With me it's so distracting to see an actress work so hard to cover up with sheets before and after supposedly having sex with someone. It just looks so silly and unnatural.
Tiny Khloe: 2026 Exxxotica Interview
Posted - Sep 13 2007 : 12:51AM
