What sort of committed relationship and sex "rules" do people in the porn world tend to have? Obviously, whatever they are is going to be "just a little" different than the usual in America these days. Do they fall into a few camps? Is the answer really "none", usually? Does that work?
I haven't seen this "elephant" discussed here yet, head on. I can't believe there's no interest!!
It seems after all that a significant portion of porn sluts aren't in it only or primarily for the money. But rather for all the plentiful, great, edgy, boundary pushing sex with lots of people, and to be in a subculture where there's permission for all of this. Many have certainly said this. Including "our own" Tricia Devereaux (who dropped out of med school to pursue porn acting full time), Chloe, Taylor Hayes, Jewel De'Nyle, Catherine Count, Kimi Lixx (I think she said when talking about why she did it the first time) etc., etc.
So one can hardly say the on camera sex for them is just a job. So this isn't like the hooker who "never kisses" (and besides is mostly have sex with older and not so attractive or sexually hot guys). And then there is their off camera "extracurricular" sex life. How does that tend to work, when they're in relationships? Again, are there two or three or a few camps?
What tend to be porn star or starlet expectations for their guy re: other women, when he isn't a porn actor himself? (After all, there seem to be far fewer guy than girl porn actors who are really active). Or when he doesn't mostly do that, or do nearly as many scenes? Say if their guy is a director, producer, has some other off camera job in the industry -- or isn't in the industry?
With porn actors who have open but committed relationships, does absolutely anything go? I'd guess not. I mean, is it OK in this subculture when you're married or otherwise living together and committed, to jump off to Mexico or Hawaii or someplace with someone else for a week -- or a weekend? What are some common rules which people have after they enter relationships in this world?
Please don't anyone answer "everyone's different" -- and leave it at that!! I'm sure that's true to a considerable extent. But this is also a different subculture, whose starting premises are very different from those of most people in the America. So it's sure interesting.
There have got to be plenty of other people who are wondering about this. And some who know a lot about it. Spill!!!
How about some porn star input on this!!! You don't have to talk about yourself or name names if you don't want to! Just observations of the camps people tend to bunch into and how it tends to work out perhaps would be fabulous!!!
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Sep 17 2001 : 6:12PM
MANY relationships in the porn business have broken up specifically because of jealousies.
I never recommend threesomes or cheating as part of someone's life.
Sex for a lot of people is more than just physical, it's very emotional. On camera, some people can just enjoy themselves, and because it's a job, they can enjoy it physically, but there are no expectations, no wondering about the emotional consequences.
Even still, the significant other of the performer very often gets jealous, even when they themselves are performers. Yes, everyone is different. Some people can handle it. Some people choose not to get into serious relationships.
Does that mean porn stars who are married to men who aren't acting on camera generally expect their husbands to NEVER have sex with anyone else??? (!!!)
While she is screwing scores or hundreds of other guys each year. (!!!)
And may well have gotten into the industry in large part because she likes doing that so much??
I can maybe imagine getting myself to a point where I could handle someone I love having sex with other people. In an emotionally highly limited sort of way, such as on camera, but not necessarily that. But with rules. Maybe I can.
But I sure can't imagine it if I'm not getting some "strange" casual sex too as part of the deal!! Not remotely fair!!! (Of course I also hardly need to live off of a woman. But then their does a porn director, producer etc.)
Doesn't that make some sort of sense???
Esp. since it would seem that in the rest of society, ours and cross culturally, men are considerably more often impelled to stray from relationships they really care about for "just sex" (including when they're very happy in their relationship) than women are. Most people who've looked at this don't think this is entirely cultural either. Not that both sexes aren't pulled that way to some extent of course. And porn actresses sure seem to have plenty of appetite. More that most men.<g>
Or look at the jealousy issue turned around. While the non-actor husband is dealing with jealously issues, even if he isn't that type as people go -- why should the actress get a 100% no jealously inducing utter sexual monogomy out of him -- if she's still acting? Which makes dealing with jealously issues on his side that much harder -- since it would be 100% one way, and not just mostly one way?
Is that what you're saying many porn actresses expect? Does that REALLY work out very often, for long? That's very hard for me to believe!
dexplorer, thanks for bringing this up. It's something I'm also curious about, but really didn't know how to ask.
Though I'm not a woman of adult entertainment, I think I can help answer one of your questions here about men who are married to porn actresses. Usually (not always, obviously) such men are 'suitcase pimps', hence not only are they NOT jealous, many of them actively see to it that their wife screw as many people as possible. Some mark their territory by insisting their wife do only g/g scenes, or at least not KISS anyone. This makes perfect sense to them, whatever.
I wish Tina would weigh in on this - I know she is married to a musician, not a suitcase pimp, so I wonder how he handles it? There seems to be more couples now who are both performers, and they limit their scenes to each other only, or you hear a bunch of BS about how they 'incorporate' other people in their sex, but only if the other is present as well (Voodoo & Nicole Sheridan, Jill Kelly & Julian come to mind) This is only gonna fly so long -
I can't say I know anything at all about any general groups, because I barely know anyone at all in the industry. Working with someone for a few hours or a day doesn't really give you any reason to pry into their personal life, so I'm not in the know.
If I were to try to date or look for a relationship right now, I'm not sure what I'd want. I wouldn't want someone pushing me (suitcase pimp), I wouldn't want someone who wanted me to run around and screw everyone in the world or put up with them doing it (swinger), I certainly wouldn't want someone who wanted me to quit and be with only them forever and ever, amen (monogamy). I don't think I would want a relationship with someone else in the industry, those seem to be under too much stress, but who else is honestly going to understand you?
I've always just wanted an intimate friend, when I wanted a partner at all. Someone who would be part of my life without being my life. Sex can be an intimate act, or just a physical one - you should be able to distinguish between the two, I wouldn't want to be with someone who couldn't. Even if I weren't in the industry.
Yeah, I've certainly heard of "suitcase pimps" around these parts, and then RAME too. (Of course some are gonna be married to male actors doing the same thing "for work", but that's got to be a minority. There are so many more really active women than men in front of the camera I think. The same men do many more scenes.)
But what I want to know is are these non-actor guys getting some strange also? Are their porn actress wives OK with that -- so long as it's just sex, and maybe some rules are followed? Are they sometimes helping with that? Bringing friends from the biz home? (Yeah sure, the husbands who aren't themselves in front of the camera are hardly likely to ring the numbers of an active and successful porn star, but if they're getting some on the side also from time to time, that might not matter so much.)
Well, how the hell could married porn actresses NOT be OK with that is what I was wondering. How could it seem remotely emotionally fair otherwise? Even if the guy isn't the emotionally jealous type -- even if he's unusually NOT the jealous type?
Or are these "suitcase pimps" usually just counting the change and don't care about sex with extra people for themselves? Unlike the desires and fantasies of just about every other man on the planet. Much more so than women in happy loving relationships I think. (Not that I think many or most happily married or committed women don't have such fantasies as well. Just not usually so urgently as men on average I think -- if they're still in love and not just still married. That sure is the overwhelming folk wisdom just about everywhere in the world, including the post feminist USA. Of course however the averages come out, people vary a LOT. And porn actresses obviously often have big appetites -- bigger than most men I guess!)
After all, the traditional pimp generally has more than one hoe. His women may be screwing more different people than he is, but he's got several who are screwing him devotedly -- while supposedly not caring about their tricks and doing everything they can to remain emotionally distant (if friendly) with their tricks. Often there are rules against kissing and often any really involved or heated sex when hookers have pimps. (Isn't that part of pimping 101? <g>) While in contrast porn stars need to do everything they can to at least SEEM for the camera emotionally blown away or abandoned and really affected by the screwing they're doing. And by all the testimonials and interviews you hear, there's at least a large subset of porn stars who DO really get into it often, and it ISN'T just a job. Or distasteful. And they're not doing it with guys chosen for money regardless of looks, but for stud appeal (if in a rather dumb sort of way, generally). Often chosen by them, once they move up a bit.
I guess if the suitcase pimp husband is basically being supported and can't make serious change himself, maybe the porn actress has the sort of leverage that allows her to say "it's just my job, having sex off screen under any circumstances is entirely different, so you get only me, period. You hubby have got to be completely sexually faithful -- while I get to screw scores or hundreds of other guys (and girls) a year -- who I often get to pick by the way. And often have long term friendly relationships with."
If it goes down like THAT, that REALLY seems pathetic to me. Consider, how many women in America who are basically, or ENTIRELY, supported by their husband are fine with him screwing around openly and fragrantly with as many different women as he wants, so long as its "just sex" and he doesn't do lots of non sex stuff with the other women? While she can't stray at all. How many American women buy anything remotely like that these days? Any? Hell, the general media wisdom these days is she should get an immediate divorce if the guy strays without involvement once or twice! (Of course a wife who finds herself in such a situation in America can clean up financially on a guy who's supporting her by simply divorcing him. Still doesn't work NEARLY to nearly to the same extent when she's the main breadwinner and they get divorced.) Back on topic …
I mean I just supposed that people in the industry tend to have some sort of "open" marital or living together arrangements, with some sorts of rules about keeping outside stuff "just sex". And I was intrigued about how the "rules" tended to work. Or different camps people tended to fall into. And I was wondering if porn actresses sometimes brought friends over sort of thing. I actually couldn't imagine anything else seeming even remotely fair, even for guys who are real open minded about this sort of thing. (Like conceivably me, depending on the emotional makeup of the woman <gg>.)
Tricia's response therefore sort of FLOORED me!!!
But maybe I misunderstood her.
Guys, everyone, join in. Please. With speculation, rumors. What you might imagine yourself being OK with. After all, we only have a few porn stars who are active members here. Though I'd love to hear from all of them.
There are a lot of people around here who seem to know a lot about the industry. I bet some of them, some of the reviewers perhaps, have some "skinny" on how this sort of thing works. Maybe there are two or three, or four "camps" that people in relationships tend to fall into.
It sure could open a different sort of window into what can and can't work in relationships. As opposed to simply only listening to traditional answers or those that haven't lived outside the usual boundaries.
I mean I know what someone like Oprah and that psych friend / guest of hers, or Montel, etc. are gonna say on this topic. Not to mention the religicos. But it would be REAL fun to learn more about how things work in real life in porn subculture relationships!!!!
Let me begin by saying that the sex was never really a motivating factor for me, in regards to entering porn. My motivations were attention (fame) and it filled a need in me to feel pretty and wanted at the time. I've had several relationships during my stint in front of the camera. Some were completely open (non- monogamous), but that doesn't really work for me. Others were supposed to be monogamous (with the obvious exception of work), but my significant other(s) at the time, instead of telling me they felt the situation was unfair (even if it was of their making) and starting a dialogue about how to reslove it equittably, they decided to sneak around... obviously THAT didn't work for me. I've finally found a balance in my exsisting relationship that seems to be working for the both of us. I will say that any man getting involved with an adult actress must be very secure and be willing to be an open and accepting partner. Words like supportive (emotionally) come to mind. I'm not saying don't have a spine, but find the balance between love and ego.
Not too deep Kimi! Not at all. Very interesting.My question Kimi is would you want someone who wasn't screwing everyone in the world, and didn't want to. But did sometimes want some "just sex" from other women, in addition to loving and being loved by you? Not because he doesn't care much, much more about you. But because he's just a somewhat greedy fuck. (As perhaps you are too, sexually. <gg>)
Even if he didn't have the excuse of being an actor in the industry?
Surely not having any real romantic love in your life can't be a better answer than sometimes allowing a guy to have some just sex not with you. Since you're doing that, as one of you jobs?
I guess part of what I find so fascinating about this area is that it tends to be men who'd much more like to have just sex with additional women once in a while, even if they're really in love. They don't do it much more than they do in America primarily because in various ways women are so up in arms and organized against that (esp. today in this country). So it becomes just not worth it. Not work wrecking the much more important thing -- given the expected reaction from her.
But in the porn world, there are a whole bunch of women who are doing all sorts of just sex. Many of whom get a real charge out of it, find it fun, and really get into it.
And some of whom get married. And a lot of whom seem to be in some sort of primary relationship -- with either a guy or a girl.
So it just seems interesting to me.
On the expectation that there would be some mutuality.
Without saying exactly what that balance is if you don't want to Tina, could you give us SOME clue?
From what you said you've tried or experienced and rejected, It's not sneaky cheating by him (or you), and it's not a totally open relationship, where any degree of involvement and relationship with other sex partners is OK. I gather it isn't total abstinence on his part from anyone else, while you screw lots of other guys on the set (but not off of it). Instead it's … ??
Perhaps you could shed some light without being too specific about yourself by talking about some unnamed friend or acquaintance of yours who found a balance you found intriguing, and decided you might like to partly adopt with your own (unspecified) variations?
I'm not trying to find out the details of your or any other porn star's private life. I'm trying to learn something about the spectrum of what people in the industry find works. Because it seems to me that it has some relevance to sex adventurous types not in the industry, among other things.
I guess I'm so intrigued by this also because I CAN imagine being able to live with it -- with a woman I was convinced really and truly loved only me for her own mishmash of reasons and just chemistry, and wasn't just parked with me or something, and given to moving on emotionally rather than committing emotionally.
I can even imagine finding her having wild on camera sex and her getting off on it, as exciting in a way -- abandoned sex animal that she'd be. (But NOT if she was emotionally playing around too. That's would be just way too much.) But I can only imagine it if it gave me a sort of limited additional sexual freedom also. Not freedom to have torrid romances on the side, or to be looking for and "testing out" someone "better" -- just as I couldn't take her doing that. What kind of commitment is that? But some freedom and maybe a bit more than that sometimes to have just sex with someone strange. Some feeling of sexual plenty rather than the total physical monogamy that seems to be the demand of the vast majority of American women past their early twenties and interested in getting emotionally involved at all these days.
I understand that. What I'm trying to understand as well is how often does that work in the other direction also? Are porn actresses any less obsessed with total physical monogamy from their male partners than most American women tend to be. Women who don't screw scores or hundreds of other men a year as part of their job? If not, do they really get away with that for any extended period of time?
Just getting off on her being famous or quasi famous for being hot in bed or something wouldn't be enough. With just that, and no special rules or benefits in our relationship that arose partly BECAUSE of her lifestyle (and not just her income -- I make lots), etc., I can't imagine not feeling like a complete sucker eventually. Actually, I'd feel that way pronto. Not because of jealously. I think I could get past that or work with that, with the right sort of woman. Because of lack of sexual fairness. In that case, her fame would be an anti fame for me. But not necessarily if there were special rules. Otherwise what's the counter balance to all of her "just sex" sexual plenty and permission? Whether it's "only on the set" or not? Where's the special permission for the non-actor husband?
For others reading this post I know it is a bit off topic, but I was drawn here in another post by dexplorer am responding to this thread.
dexplorer, porn has not bee a big thing on my mind lately and probably the reason why I haven't lingered here. In the past week I found myself coming here for the community. I will do my best to respond.
My crushes are quite exaggerated. It is all part of the fun. Yes, I had great appreciation for Alexandra Silk. I shall not deny that, but it by far did not truely garner me the status as "Alexandra Silk's Biggest Fan". I am quite sure there are others who would fit better in this category. Let's face it, it doesn't really take a whole lot of effort to put "Still Campaigning for Alexandra Silk" in your signature. The idea of a campaign came first, then I just needed to think of a good person to campaign for. I wanted someone who I felt would be a great contribution to the community. My biggest infatuation has always been for Racquel Darrian. For some reason I have always felt the desire to know people as being human (to a certain extent). Though, as many others, I delight in the fantasy that one day some HOT porn star will show up on my doorstep ask for a taste of Endorphin (but then again, that is fantasy. somethings simply belong in fantasy), I think there is a desire to just be able to sit down and talk to them. Sit down and have a beer with them (Naughty Nav has to add--while they are sucking on my....Naughty Nav has been censored). This desire is not limited to porn stars. I have often wondered what it would be like to be a celebrity's pal. Like the guy who just sits down and chats comfortably with Robert DeNiro(example given for Tina's benefit). Though, this desire fades a bit as I get older.I know very little about the industry and I like to keep it like that. Kinda ruins the fantasy.
On with the topic at hand...
It seems to me I am really in no position to directly comment on the topic at hand. Just because Tina, Kimi, Tricia, and Wendy fantasize about me every night does not make me an expert but it does get me some hate mail from their men. What I can state is that once I know a porn star is married she tends to drop down a notch on the desirability scale, even just fantasywise.. I personally do highly advocate monogamy among those that have made a commitment to each other and don't really wish to interfer. Heck, when Pam married Tommy Lee the posters came down. When I found out Alexandra was married I still wanted her participation in the forum, but admittedly the infatuation (?) faded quite a bit. I could say with almost absolute certainty that if Alexandra showed up on my doorstep naked and willing, I would turn her down (I'd take pictures though, of course). (sorry, these thoughts are quite a bit incomplete, I'm a bit exhauted). I also tend to feel that sex outside a committed relationship, even if agreed upon by both parties, tends to have damaging effects (possibly more on this later).
(Pornstars fill in your name here) I agree so much with what you are saying. It is almost like you read my mind. I don't agree totally though, because I am a man of independent thought.
BTW dexplorer...welcome to The Home of the Revolution. Nice to see you there.
Campaigning for Love it's not a thousand years away, it's not that far my brother when men will fight injustice instead of one another its not that far if we all say yes and only try then Heaven on Earth we will find --from Still would Stand All Time by Prince
Astronight --I honestly don't know. I've never experimented with that. I've never cheated on someone I was in a committed relationship with either. But I'm curious about whether what your saying has to be true. I guess I tend to think it probably is, but I don't have a closed mind about it.
As well, consider this:
ALL porn stars do exactly that. They all have agreed upon sex outside their committed relationships. If they have committed relationships, which most seem to, of whatever duration.
I also think the line that "sex on camera doesn't count, because it's just work". And "most porn stars don't really enjoy the sex on camera, except for the attention they get from the fans", is fundamentally bogus. In fact I think that's probably a cover line for husbands and other significant others to a considerable extent.
Oh, I do believe it's sometimes, and maybe usually true, depending upon the actress, and also the sorts of scenes she does. But I also am 99.46% certain that it's not always true. I'm just about certain that PART of the motivation of the great majority of porn actresses IS the permission to have gobs of slutty sex. Even the ones who truly do limit themselves to on camera sex once they're in a relationship. Plenty have on camera orgasms sometimes. Even when they don't (for a variety of reasons, including all the not so comfortable positions, the starting and stopping for the camera, etc., as well as the no involvement thing they usually like to emphasize if they have a partner, I'm sure that plenty of times they have all sorts of sexual thrills and fun from it. It's also not as though they are usually screwing guys they dislike, once they get extablished. The business is always described as a generally friendly subculture of people who soon get to know each other, with lots of friendships. Established actresses often get to chose, or anyway veto, who screws them on camera.
The first and most universal motivation for porn actresses seems to be exhibitionism and fame of course. But I think for nearly all, the exhibitionism and enjoying the "just sex" they are exhibiting is all tied together.
Again I'm not approaching this from the perspective of imagined jealousy -- if I was involved with a porn actress she'd always be getting way more, so that's inherently something I couldn't take. Not that. I can imagine maybe being OK with that, depending upon the woman. Honestly, I'm not sure. I can imagine being OK with that to begin with anyway. Not sure how it would wear. But I know I wouldn't be OK if I didn't get SOME spill over permission, and benefits, also. It's very hard for me to imagine how anyone could be OK with it. It seems to me it would be more like living with it for whatever reason, even though it deeply clawed at you emotionally. Ugggggh.
I mean if I loved the woman, and she loved me, and once in a while she brought over a friend from the business for a threesome for example, I'd probably be happy as a pig in sh*t. Hell, that would be real rules limited, like her on camera work. Inherent rules she controlled. (It's her friend and work colleague from her business. It wouldn't be OK if I saw a threesome girl other than with my porn actress wife / SO. (And it wouldn't be OK if she did either.) Just as it wouldn't be OK if she saw some guy who fucked her real nice with feeling on the set, off the set.) There'd still be no comparison in the amount and variety of sex the partners were respectively getting. But the husband or SO would be getting something with some regularity which most only fantasize about, or have happen once in blue moon.
I suspect that what we've heard from Tricia and Tina is more what they in particular WANT to be the case in relationships for themselves and maybe have managed to get (for a while if you ask me), than what usually happens in the subculture.
Although actually, Tricia's situation is really quite different. She didn't get married until after she left in front of the camera work -- except for one scene with only her husband. Well, she did have a year or so relationship with Director Rob Black while she was at the height of her acting career she said in her interview here (or elsewhere). Hmmm. Which didn't last. Hmmmm. (Because he was not in fact willing to be entirely monogamous himself, under the circumstances?)
The idea that men who aren't pathetic losers could be fine with BOTH their wife having sex with scores or hundreds of different men a year, and AND their own required total monogamy simply boggles my mind. That is, if the guy doesn't have a very low sex drive, or is impotent, or the like. (And I can't imagine a guy with a very low sex drive being the man for a porn actress either. <g>)
At least I can't imagine just about any man being fine with BOTH sides of that for any extended period.
But I'd be happy for other men to tell me I have it wrong. <g> Just please be honest!
I probably wouldn't mind if he/she wanted to have sex with someone else from time to time. I would want to have a say in who they were fooling around with, though. (I would offer the same to my partner, if there was someone they didn't approve of I wouldn't go there.)
Being a performer isn't much of an excuse for anything <wry grin> - I wouldn't want to eat steak every day, why would I think anyone would want to have the same partner every day? Those who are doing the monogamy thing RESIST the temptation, doesn't mean they don't have it.
I'm not into romance, romantic love, or any of that stuff. All I want in a relationship is a PARTNER - someone who wants to share, help out, and be supportive (and get that stuff back from me). I'm picky and fussy, I would rather have no relationship at all than settle on one that wasn't right for me and try to work it out. Sex with others isn't much of an issue, but if it was an issue he and his johnson could take a walk, there isn't much I can't do by myself without a lot less hassle.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Sep 19 2001 : 11:37AM
Kimi, you said this, but dexplorer, your comments are based on this assumption. Perhaps there are people doing the monogamy thing who do not want to be with others.
As we know I'm not a porn star, but I have been in a relationship where I had sex with other men and my boyfriend didn't have sex with other women. Perhaps some porn husbands do not want to have sex with anyone other than their wife. I can see how the husband would understand that it is just a job (which is all it is for some stars.)
Remove the assumption that monogamy is based on rules rather than wants.
Kimi --Now THAT seems cool. Really cool.I know what you mean. Romantic love or infatuation isn't what lasts anyway. It's the partnership and best friend stuff that lasts. I think what saying and meaning "I love you" to someone past the infatuation stage is really means is: "you can count on me. I'm committed to you, and only you in this sort of way, even through the tough spots where things are going more one way than the other for a while."Cool. Very interesting.
It's not that full bore swinging interests me. It's more the idea of once in a while.
Too bad for me you live in Cleveland, and love it there. <gg>
Your approach seems so fair to me. You expect someone to be OK with how you like to make your living, and to not try to change that, even though it involves sex. Duhhh. But you're willing to give out some freedom within rules in return.
Steph --Do you know any contemporary American women who are like that on a long term basis?? It's a serious question.
Perhaps you could send me some names! (a not serious aside<gg>)
Sure, there are plenty (but a MUCH diminished number) of contemporary American women who live with their husband having "just sex" with other women, at least for a while. But generally increasingly unhappily if they aren't / don't want to do a bit of that as well, from everything I know. If they continue to live with it and don't get divorced, now that divorce works out so well for American women if their husband makes any kind of money, its usually because of all the other things they are getting out of the situation -- such as money, or status, together with an otherwise supportive relationship. (And usually I think the ones that can continue to live with that even so are those with pretty low sex drives.) I don't think there are many if any who are really OK with it. From what I know and see. Among other things there is TREMENDOUS pressure in the media and from almost any circle of American female friends for women to NOT be OK with that these days. It is said to automatically be a huge insult to her, that he can't possibly really love her, that if she puts up with it she is denigrating herself, etc., etc. I do think however that there are MANY more women would could be inherently (bio-sexually) ok with this than men. Provided the guy is otherwise committed, involved with her, and supportive. It's contemporary American culture which pushes so militantly against it, it seems to me.
As far as any notion that there aren't ANY bio-sexual differences between the sexes goes: why is it that men buy virtually all the visual pornography, even in post feminist America?
That I honestly think is self delusion. Or something said to make himself look better in the eyes of others. No doubt often encouraged and fed by porn actresses in relationships. It might be MOSTLY just a job for many. But entirely that, all the time? I don't believe it. Not whatsoever. Not with any porn actress all the time. ESPECIALLY since a lot of the attraction to dancing, and then porn is exhibitionism. Not just of the body as in dancing, but also sexual exhibitionism. Exhibitionism is a form of sexuality. I think it's all tied together with enjoying the sex some or much of the time, depending upon the performer.Well Seph, I think that for the VAST majority of men adhering strictly to monogamy 100% of the time IS based on rules, rather than that wants. Not general social rules necessarily. The consequences enforced by women (i.e. his wife or SO) these days in America. I think a desire for some attractive strange once in a while anyway is wired into men. Much more than women. I really do. Although of course there is a whole lot of variation in both sexes.
But of course this is one of the things that men lie most about to women. Simply because they have to, usually. It's just terrible sexual politics, usually, to admit to a woman that yeah, you'd like to stray sometimes -- but don't. If you are trying to attract and keep a woman as your committed partner, what's going to make you more attractive? Admitting that you sometimes are tempted to stray, but don't -- or saying that since you fell in love with her you only have eyes for her all the time, period, end of story?? Esp. since American women by their mid 20's tend to be so up in arms about this subject. I tend to tell the truth anyway but I think that's probably pretty unusual here.
Now don't get me wrong. I think most men past a certain age (which varies with the guy, and for some from the get go) MOSTLY want monogamy. Most men past a certain age anyway want love and commitment far more than freedom, if it's got to be one or the other. But I also think the VAST majority of men would like some strange once in a while. Unless they have a very low sex drive all around. (Of course if they come from a strict fundamentalist Christian tradition, this many be a repressed desire.)
As for a man being happy with a non porn star screwing other guys while he can never do the same -- or doesn't (because he doesn't want to or the opportunity isn't easily available to him as it is to nearly any youngish woman) -- I have a very hard time imagining a guy being happy with that for an extended period of time. Yes, there are guys who truly do want total monogamy for themselves. But to then be perfectly fine over an extended period with a girlfriend who wants to screw around -- I do find that hard to believe.
I imagine it's a matter of the guy settling for it, increasingly unhappily. Because she was say prettier and / or otherwise more attractive than anyone he was able to be with otherwise. But I have a very hard time imagining that situation remaining stable for a really long time.
I guess one thing that's going on is that there isn't the enormous media and other social pressure against men accepting a woman who screws around while they don't, than there is against women accepting that today. In fact I guess in a few social environments (like Berkeley CA) it could seem socially edgie and advanced among some subsets. I just think it so inherently cuts against the male grain bio-sexually.
By way of comparison consider this. The average number of lifetime sexual partners for all Americans as of a fairly recent date (as reported in interviews promising anonymity) is about 6 or 7 (a shockingly low number if you ask me). It's one or two lower for women than men. Something like four versus seven -- don't recall exactly. (There's also quite a bit more variability among men, with a real barbell effect, as I would expect. I.e. a whole lot of guys where its 1 or 2, and a smaller but sizeable number where its over 30. Same thing with women but the high end is smaller -- but those who are in it can rack up really big numbers. (Cause its so easy for any middling attractive mid 30s or younger to do that if she wants to, for pleasure or for work.)) It's about 7 or 9 or thereabouts for lesbians. It's over three hundred for gay men. Consider the contrast!!! (I rather imagine the hetero numbers are a bit understated particularly for women, but the gay contrast would still have to remain.) That suggests something about biological drives I think. Since gay men have other men as partners, there is no other sex to "negotiate" with.
(I found this last a while ago in a google search concerned with HIV transmission. Some reputable source like CDC. I couldn't find it again looking real fast but I'm sure I could if I spent a bit of time.)
I think what you're getting at, is the societal castration of men that has been running rampant in North America for the past 20 years, or so. There has been a growing lack of male identity in our culture. This is definately played out in your thread here, with some focus on, 'since porn actresses have sex for a living, do their men enjoy any benefits in their own sex lives as a result?' I can only answer that, in my situation we are 2 real human beings who communicate and compromise, but never sacrifice, so yes, there are benefits of the job that are enjoyed by both parties.
I don't know that that is what I've been trying to get at on this thread exactly, but you're right, I do believe that that is so, a bad thing, and something that should change. Not back to the way things were, but change.
You sound a lot like Camille Paglia there. Who I think is fabulous.
I'd LOVE for you to elaborate on that!!
BTW Tina, I'm curious. If as dumblonde said when hoping hoping you'd jump in your husband is a musician, who is that buy you were posting emails from on the World Events forum here just after the kamakazi terrorist strike?
Dexplorer- I posted an email from another forum member (Lee Carver).
I also really like Camille Paglia. Feminism never really worked for me because it only dealt with half of society being accepted. I always thought that if women want to be accepted and have equal rights we should be giving men the same consideration and that means accepting each individual for who they are regardless of weather or not you agree with them. I guess you could call me a humanist.
quote: "Perhaps there are people doing the monogamy thing who do not want to be with others."
I'm sure there are SOME, but human nature being what it is, I'd have to agree that MOST monogamy, when it happens, is based on fear of getting caught only.
quote: "I'm picky and fussy, I would rather have no relationship at all than settle on one that wasn't right for me and try to work it out." "there isn't much I can't do by myself without a lot less hassle."
You said it all, Kimi! I LOVE being single, at least at this point in my life. I don't know if that will change, it could, but I certainly don't give it much thought. He would have to be really something special, though. Anyway, I'm getting too off-topic. Back to
I really cannot honestly speak for anyone else in the industry when it comes to this topic.. but, I can speak for me. I am married and in the business. I am married to Eric Masterson and he is in the business. WE personally couldn't be more in love, or happier in our marriage. Every day that I wake up I am more in love than the last. He feels the same for me. I can't say that in the beginning we didn't have some trouble. Jumping into the business takes a little getting use to. But, I can say that since then we've come a long ways in our relationship and we have done nothing but, grow. I believe that the question revolved around rules. Yeah ok you tend to have them. But, it's fair to say that all relationships do. If you don't think so.. you might want to consider it for a while. As for my own.. we choose who we will or wont work with. We choose not to do certain types of scenes and we always discuss every job with each other. We do not have a relationship out side of our own. We are very loyal to one another. If we decide that we would like to try something different we always talk about it first. We never do anything that the other might feel uncomfortable with and we always make sure that when we come home that we spend time together. If we want to play with other people we do it together. If we choose to have sex with other people we do it at home while we are both present so that we can both enjoy the experience. Otherwise, having sex with other people while the other one is not around, does nothing for us. It's not to say that we don't have fun on set.. we do.. but, it's more enjoyable when we can share the experience at home together.. otherwise it's work.. and their is nothing wrong with anyone enjoying their job.. it's just not work at home.. I know that we are not like the general populace. I also know that we are not the, what might be considered, "typical porn" relationship. We are not true swingers and we don't have outside affairs. We have sex on film for work. And, we have sex at home for us. If we add someone it's for us. We do it for each other. That might be different for some. We treat this like a job. I didn't get into it for the money. I got into it for the credit. Meaning I wanted to make more money dancing. In order to do that at the time, I needed something else to create a "draw". I had already done magazines so movies were next. I also got into it for the fame.. and to feel better I guess about my looks. I still dance and when I can I still do magazines. But, I work more now becuase of getting into this industry. I did not get into this for the sex. And, that hasn't changed at all. The way I see it... noone wants to hear that I enjoy sex more with my husband.. because that ruins the fantasy. Noone wants to hear about how someone in porn is in love... because then it takes away their fun or their dreams about women or men being more accessable. Noone wants to hear or think about someone only working with one person because that to them is boring. All anyone wants to see is as many people fuck as many people and tell the whole world how much they love it.. that it's the best thing they have ever done. That the whole reason they got into the industry is for the sex. They just have to have it... they are insatiable.. they love having as many cocks or as much pussy as possible. And, you know why they all want to hear this? Because otherwise noone would care.. it wouldn't be interesting and it wouldn't sell. Who cares about monogamy... who cares about love.. who cares about anything real when you are talking about an industry that makes it's money off of the fantasies that people have. Do not get me wrong... I am not saying that it shouldn't be that way.. I am merely explaining that not everyone in this industry is all about the sex. There are real people that get into it as a source of money, or for whatever other reasons they might have. As for people who ride their coattails.. well that happens.. for sure... but, it's up to that person to deal with it. Not only that.. it's noone else's business. Rules: The one rule we might have... Always talk to each other about how we feel. Always ask before we make a decision on a job. Always inform each other of what we do. Basically... communication. If anyone has a relationship that has double standards.. well.. once again that is their business.. and who says that two people can't have a double standard in their lives and not be the happiest couple ever.. ? Not everyone feels the need to do things "tit for tat". OH.... well you kissed someone so now I get to..... oh you fucked someone now I get to.... oh wait.... you spent $500.00 now I get to.... hey, now wait a minute... you went on a trip.. now it's my turn.. sheesh people.. is that all you care about? Is making sure that if one person does something sexually that you both do? Is that really what a true loving relationship all about? Or was love... even factored in that relationship...? I guess if you don't really care about someone then it's easy to only think about yourself... Yeah everyone is different. So that makes each and every couple different. I guess I am definitely different. I've been in this business now for 3 years.. I got in with my husband.. and I will get out with him. I love him more now than ever as does he love me. And, noone and nothing.. including this industry.. will tear us apart... That to me is love.. rules or no rules. I know it might sound strange but, with everything that has happened in the past 3 years... I feel closer and more in love.. more in lust... and more interested in my husband in our relationship than ever before. This has been a very interesting experience for us both. And, when we are done.. we might decide to be comepletely monogamous.. but, if not it would never be something that we lie about or do without the other. We have both talked about how we feel about each other.. and the way we see it.. noone else in the entire world makes us feel the way we feel about each other.. and having sex with someone else isn't going to change that. Some have said that this is not possible.. or that people are only monogamous becasue they don't want to get caught.. maybe that is so.. for some.. but, as dorky as it might sound.. if you are trully in love.. than nothing else or anyone else matters. I happen to be lucky enough to have that sort of relationship. What rules do people in this industry tend to have? Whatever rules they decide. Just don't base your opinions on the many... when there are definitely a few that are different.
What an absolutely FABULOUS full, long, frank, thoughtfull and WONDERFUL reply to this set of questions and thread!!!
I can't thank you enough!!!
If it makes any difference, you answer made me fall in love with you!!
And REALLY make me WANT to see one of your videos. So I will.
As well, I can imagine I WOULD love, really LOVE, to be married to you. Even though I wouldn't want to work on camera myself. (Oh I could love to do a few scenes maybe but I wouldn't want it to be my career.) Wait a minute, that's a ridiculous thing to say. Here's what I mean by that: I LOVE your attitude towards the issue I brought up. I LOVE it to death in fact. Every damn aspect of what you said. Every WORD of what you said about it. ALL sides of it.
And if everything else was wonderful, and if you felt about me as you do about your husband, and vice versa me about you on a full person basis, then that you're in the business and doing what you do on camera with other guys would be something I'm pretty sure I COULD handle with you. Even thought I wasn't doing that myself (as your husband is).
I love your whole damn approach. What you will and won'd do, or how you approach that. What you are and are not comfortable about your husband doing with someone else off the set. Only together is just fine. Just your whole approach I totally, absolutely, completely love. What a fabulous woman you are!!! And you know what, I bet it wouldn't be any or much different for you if your husband wasn't in the biz in front of the cameras. Your reply and what you do, your rules so far and how you and he make them, is one of my DREAM replies to my questions Wendy!!!! Zowie!!!
I mean as well part of me could love the idea of my wife screwing other guys and getting off on it. I mean as a real plus rather than a negative. But with real boundaries there, as you described. I hope I communicated that side above as well up above. I know I didn't emphasize that. If not, well I want to. It's just that if there wasn't some reciprosity with the other people stuff on my side, in the sort of way you describe it I mean, then I'm just about positive I COULDN"T handle it personally. At least not over an extended period. But as for my wanting to keep up or to keep score or something. Naaah. No way. That's not remotely it for me. And I don't have THOSE sorts of appetite for strange anyway, if it wasn't my job.
If that makes any sense.
-- dexplorer, a little in love, and very intrigued, by Wendy Divine. What a sweetheart!!!
Also Wendy --Well, I guess this is going to surprise the hell out of you, given the passage from your post I just quoted, but your having shared what you shared in your post makes me want to see a video of you MUCH, MUCH MORE than I would otherwise. Got me to bump seeing one by you right up my list!! So there!
The only part of what I quoted that really applies to me necessarily in what I just quoted is this part of it:
That's true, if it were always ONLY him. But at the same time I'd LOVE to see scenes of you screwing your husband. What would you recommend, in fact, for that? Are there any where he's part of a two or more guy group doing you? Actually, I think two or three seems better to me than a gang bang crowd.
I think it's also true that it takes away from the fantasy if we believe you don't ever enjoy screwing other guys on the set at all. But it doesn't AT ALL take away from it for me to hear that you like it most of all with your husband. (Nor does it surprise we one bit.)
Outside of a few parameters, such as not ONLY doing an SO, and being totally bored with the sex, it turns me on immensely more when I think I know something REAL about the actress. The more she shares and it sounds real and true to me, the more she interests me (other things being equal). Yeah sure, we all have physical and personality types that interest us the most, or several, but I mean within that, I'm most interested in actresses I think I really know something about. Within broad parameters, mostly meaning total indifference doesn't do much for me, it doesn't really matter exactly what the truth is. As long as I think what I'm told is real.
Actually, I can even get a certain sort of thrill if someone says they actually hate doing it -- IF I believe that's the real truth. Or that they always feel guilty about it. Or conflicted. Or hate it for some other reason. Yeah, that falls into a different category, but it has it's own sort of appeal. There's something so terrifically whorish about feeling that way, but doing it anyway for the money I guess. Not that that is what usually interests me but it has its own niche.
Knowing real things about the actress makes it MUCH more intesting. The more the better. Not cause I'm looking for her to say something in particular necessarily, but just because it makes it much more interesting when its a whole person.
I just wanted to clarify in case I didn't before.. that I do like my job.. and I do enjoy it. But, I guess the point is.. is that when it comes down to it... my husband is the one that does it all for me.. and does it the best.. it's not to say that I don't get off in other scenes with other people.. because I have.. it's just that.. the idea that I get to go home and talk to him about it.. or vice versa.. well that makes all the difference in the world to me.. because we share it..
Everything you sought to clarify in your second post, I also got from your first one.
Just thought you might want to know.
Kisses!!
-- dexplorer
PS Are you going to be dancing in NYC anytime soon?
Jeeessh, I don't even know what places are open these Giuliani days. It's been a while since I've been in a strip club. But to see you -- I just might!
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Sep 21 2001 : 2:35AM
I'm not in the habit of defending Rob Black, but Rob WANTED very much for us to be monogamous. BOTH of us. He was unbelievably upset that I wanted to keep performing, especially considering that I met him while working for him. He thought that if I loved him, and he could support me financially, I wouldn't need to keep fucking other guys for a living. We actually broke up because I wanted to keep working with other guys. As for my ex-husband, I wanted him to work as a porn actor, but he had performance issues. Besides, there were other things going on that had nothing to do with whether we were monogamous or not. He would have preferred if I had stopped performing altogether. I loved my job, because it made me feel famous and beautiful and loved by my fans. It was also a way to have sex with no emotional attachments, which I know (for me) is not possible in my private life. I bring a lot of personal stuff into a relationship, even one that's only supposed to be physical. As for my current relationship, we are monogamous as far as sex goes. Do we fantasize? Absolutely. Do we flirt with others or look at others and get aroused? Hell yeah. We both go to strip clubs (usually separately). And we both still react sexually to others, in person, on tape, whatever. But blowjobs, intercourse, etc. That's where the line was drawn in compromise because we realized that's the thing that would work for us, and that's where we have been since before I got pregnant.
I am very envious of Wendy. I always wanted to keep working and have a husband who was also performing. I wonder what it would have been like.
At first, dexplorer, I thought that you started this post to perpetuate your fantasies that porn girls were someone that someone like you could be with to fuck, and maybe they'd even bring home some "friends" for you. Actually, I know of very few girls who have more friends in porn than not in porn.
There are some of the swinger type that you were hoping to hear from, but they seem to be less common, I think.
Hmmm looks like I got back just in time. Tina and I married I wish. Reason I am weighing in. Well while I have been around for a while I have only "dated" one girl in the industry and that is more of an off and on thing then a steady relationship. Currently neither of us is trying or even thinking about being monogomous (both of us have some commitment issues) but I will admit she is much more active then me just due to my nature (can't say I much care for casual sex though it can be fun on occasion). Do I have a problem with this? No. To each there own. Now if we were just seeing each other would I have a problem with her having sex with other people and me not. Well considering her attitude towards women I don't think that would be an issue as long as she could watch or join in. But her work is her work. Any man who gets into a relationship with a woman in the adult industry had better think long and hard about it and TALK to her a lot about his feelings (yes I know not very manly but necessary). Otherwise it won't last very long. You don't have to be a STUD to date women in the industry but you do have to be secure with yourself and trust your partner. Otherwise you are doomed before you even begin.
The subjects you are bringing up dexplorer are what generally kills a "normal" relationship with women in the industry. I think Juli Ashton put it to me best one time when she said most start out "Hey I am dating a porn star which shortly becomes, Hey I am dating a PORN star
Tricia --As a big fan of yours Tricia, I'm sorry you weren't able to keep working! But you do seem to have found an interesting way to remain involved with the industry, with lots of future possibilities, such as directing. (BTW I just rented Buttman's Toy Stories" with you and John, and LOVED IT. Can't wait to buy the DVD when it's released. I said a few things about it this morning over on your Evil Angel DVD release timetable thread.)ME!!! Have fantasies about fucking porn girls!!!! What an outrageous suggestion Tricia!!! I'm DEEPLY offended!! <gg>
Actually though, I really haven't had fantasies about being married to a currently active porn girl. The fantasies have had more to do with my screwing them when they are being "bad". Or more often, fantasies about them not as porn stars, but as slutty, free and easy, women in the roles they're playing. It's only quite recently that that idea of being married to a porn star even crossed my mind.
You know Tricia, I think you have YOURSELF to blame for that in fact!! <g> When I started seeing some of your videos, and read your interviews (or chats) here and elsewhere, and read your little autobio at your website, and read you chatting on the forums here, I not only fell kinda in love with you (in a fantasy sort of way of course), but also thought: DAMN!! Now there's a real smart, fun, and as well loyal seeming pornstar that I actually COULD imagine being married to. But how would I handle her continuing to do what she does, if I really loved her, and couldn't bear the thought of losing her ….?
That's sort of how the "inspiration" to start this thread developed. <g> What I really hoped to learn was stuff applicable outside of relationships with porn stars though. I guess what I've learned so far is that even pornstars, American ones anyway, are obsessed with their husband's absolute monogamy -- unless perhaps he has the "its just work" excuse as an actor that she does.
I've never had a friend, or any man I've talked to on this subject, who hasn't had that as a fantasy. Now many may believe it would end in disaster (because of their SO's long term reaction), so don't want to actually try to do it. But as a fantasy, at least … If most non-actor guys you've been with in your life haven't told you that was a fantasy of their's, if you ask me that's because they were self-censoring themselves, or lying (on the expectation you'd be less than thrilled). Or before you got into porn, because they figured you'd counter with a two guys on you fantasy that they couldn't emotionally handle.WoW! That really surprises me. I mean for actresses living in the Valley area, anyway. I'd always heard that the industry was pretty self contained.I think that is MUCH, MUCH more true of women than it is for men. I didn't used to think that. I used to believe but for social conditioning, men and women are the same on that. But I don't remotely think that any more. As well, why is a rule that sex with someone else can only be on a set, the only rule that can work to allow just sex with others without emotional attachments? I can't understand that. (While at the same time couples to couples swinging doesn't really grab me either.)
Of course sex is DIFFERENT and better for men too (well certainly for me) when there is deep emotional involvement. But just really liking screwing a woman doesn't make me tend to fall in love with her. Especially if I already care about someone else. And I can and do love just screwing even when I'm not emotionally involved -- as long as it sexually hot. I think that's true for most men. I think that has a lot to do with why there's male oriented visual pornography in fact. (Whereas most women tend to feed their sexual fantasy lives by reading such stuff as Harlequin romances, or more upscale versions. These don't involve truly casual sex, but rather serial full fledged romances, and generally upwardly mobile ones in some way or another.)
It seems to me that American women these days especially have a strong tendency to project their own feelings about the impact of sex with someone else upon men. -- and in particular the man they care about. It's not PC fashionable to admit that the sexes are really pretty different here. They are sure that even something as meaningless as sex with a hooker is something of real impact to him -- because they think (and maybe they're right) that it would have that sort of impact on them, at least if it was something they liked enough to want to keep doing once in awhile. (Of course women almost never hire male hookers -- which is also revealing of differences between the sexes.) I really think men and women tend to be pretty different here. Not all men and all women. But the great majority of them. (Of course men who are really from hunger sexually, and aren't getting any, or especially haven't ever gotten that much, DO tend to get pretty emotionally blown away and attached after "just sex". But that's different. But it's also a whole lot of guys, I think, sadly.)
Lee --I always talk about my feelings (and hers) with women I'm at all involved with. A lot.
I didn't start this thread though because I have any intentions or expectations of dating a porn actress. (I did have a committed relationship with a stripper who lived with me for over a year a few years ago. But that doesn't raise nearly the same issues, seems to me.) For one thing I don't live in the right city for that. I raised it because I thought it might shed some interesting light on what relationships without monogamy can be like. I.e., on the possibilities. It's an industry with a concentration of women who are living out a "slut" lifestyle, at least on the set. And there is a reality to that. (They aren't pretending to get fucked as in softcore. They ARE getting fucked hard and often and in a whole lot of ways by a whole lot of different guys. They are also getting really into it sometimes, or doing their very best to seem like they are. Which sure as hell would get ME really into it.)
Whereas in the vast majority of the rest of American society, men are in general MUCH more interested in casual sex than women are. Including when they have a relationship they care about -- at least after a while there is that occasional pull, usually. It's a good part of why men buy or rent porn -- fantasies about that. (How much porn has a story line where only husbands fuck wives, albeit gorgeous ones, or boyfriends only fuck girlfriends?) Although of course it's always much easier for youngish women (even if they're not all that hot) to quickly and without much effort arrange casual sex if they want to, simply because of this relative "market demand" for it out there among men.
That's what I don't buy whatsoever. Unless you just meant it's likely to be something she's gonna want to keep doing, so long as there is a big demand to see her. That, sure. But I don't buy whatsoever that most porn actresses don't sometimes get off on the casual sex with studs not their husband, or that they don't also love the "permission" to do that, and still be accepted and in fact celebrated by a sizeable community (the porn world, together with fans). Yeah, sometimes the sex is too broken up by the director, or the position's too uncomfortable, etc. But sometimes I think NOT. Exhibitionism and the act of incredibly slutty actual casual screwing all blend together, I'm pretty damn sure, in most cases. That's part of what makes it hot.That's exactly what I would have expected Lee.
ESPECIALLY if the porn star expects her non-actor husband / SO to never have any "just sex" outside the marriage, while she does what she does, with all the studs and at least some good looking guys, on the set. It really has just floored me to hear that some actresses EXPECT their non-actor husbands to do this, under the circumstances. That's the part of it I couldn't take, if that was supposed to apply to me. I just might be able to handle her getting lots more and very publicly otherwise, as I've said. I mean frankly it makes lots of sense for HER to have those rules, or mostly so, if she is going to be in a committed relationship and do all the outside screwing she's doing. If she didn't, the likelihood of her getting rapped up with some other guy, guy after guy, would be pretty damn high I'd think.
But I would think different rules, but for sure rules limiting opportunities for emotional involvement, would apply to the non-actor husband if it's going to feel remotely fair to him. Or to me anyway, as I try to project that situation. Or the sort of setup Wendy described with her actor husband, applied to a non-actor one, where other people off the set were only OK if the other partner was there too, and either partner could always veto anybody. But couples to couples swinging doesn't usually seem that great to me. A woman or two, or a man or two, brought home once in a while. THAT seems edgie fun to me. No I don't mean bi-male stuff, so far as I'm concerned. Yeah, a little risky, but hell that goes with this particular territory anyway it seems to me. Certainly for the non-actor.
But how could there be emotional satisfaction for a guy, long term, whose wife or live together partner is a currently active porn star, if he didn't also get to sometimes live outside the usual rules of monogamy, in some way or another??? Unless he's seriously masochistic about her sexuality (while his must be carefully limited to just her). The phrase "seriously cuckolded" comes to mind.
Or the sort of setup Wendy described with her actor husband, applied to a non-actor one, where other people off the set were only OK if the other partner was there too, and either partner could always veto anybody. But couples to couples swinging doesn't usually seem that great to me. A woman or two, or a man or two, brought home once in a while. THAT seems edgie fun to me. No I don't mean bi-male stuff, so far as I'm concerned. Yeah, a little risky, but hell that goes with this particular territory anyway it seems to me. Certainly for the non-actor.
dexplorer:
I just wanted to let you know that when it comes to what we do..we have had at times one person over... two people over or several people over for fun... all or at least most of us sexually active during these times. I guess you could say we're just picky about who we have over because it's not just anyone.. We decide who we feel would be fun to hang out with and then we get together. These events don't always wind up the same way.. but, at least when we do wind up getting naked .. it's because we agreed ahead of time that if it did come to that.. that it was all ok... and for the record.. there is no bi-male stuff going on in this house... and I have no idea if there is anywhere else either.. thought I should make that clear. But, as I've said before.. we are in a very committed, loyal, loving relationship. I'm sure that sounds odd to some people give the circumstances. But, we just very much like to see each other have fun while we are together and share that experience rather than not. It's not to say that neither of us has a good time on set... we do.. but, the one thing that remains constant.. always and forever.. will be that the only one that will ever keep us satisfied to the utmost degree.. will always be each other. I know for most people like yourself dexplorer... that if I said that if Eric and I were to quit today.. and decide to be monogamous for the rest of our lives... we would be completely satisfied and totally happy... you would definitely have doubts.. and I can't say that I would blame you given the circumstances. But, he and I often talk about our relationship and exactly how we feel about what we want.. We don't hide our appetites from one another and we don't lie. We want each other to be happy and we definitely want each other to express our dislikes about things as well. He tells me if he wants me to do something for him.. and I tell him if I want to do something for him.. seriously though... I also let him know if I want to see him do something for me.. and then we ask once more to make sure.. before we do it.. that way we can't say we heard wrong. I'll do anything to make him happy and he feels the same way about me... but, we have come to realise that when it comes to sex... we are the ones that make each other the happiest and most satisfied and always will.. so technically we have no need of others.. except to add to the fun we already have alone. And, that is something that we can take or leave. I hope that makes sense to you.. I guess what it boils down to is that Eric and I love each other more than anything in the world. We could be monogamous if we wanted to and be quite happy. We just happen to like doing things for and around each other that gets us even hotter than before for one another. I know I could probably express this in a million ways but, I think you understand.. We're also not selfish either. I don't say he can't ever do anything and vice versa. For someone to do whatever they want and to never allow the other person to do so.. is plain selfish imo. What other reason is there? Insecurity stems from jealousy which tends to make people close up and act in selfish ways. It's not easy to deal with... but, it's the truth. Dealing with that is the hard part. If you can get past it.. things get much better. Regardless... the point is.. yes rules are there.. but, you can look at them as rules.. or you can look at them as freedoms you can experience together. It really does make a difference how you look at it. Stop looking at what you can't do.. and look at what you can. love you.. kisses
ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you just said makes total sense to me.
Including most definitely this:
You are AN ABSOLUTE DREAM GIRL!!!!
God do I LOVE your approach.
Will you please clone about 10,000 of yourself!!!! Or more.
I had a wonderful relationship like yours in college, but I've never managed to find anyone else since who really wanted to go that way, or who was so opened up. Hearts like yours are a truly beautiful thing!!
I was actually getting rather depressed that even in the porn world, which has got to attract more than its fair share of genuinely sex adventurous and sex open women, that this sort of thing was rare. Which was blowing my mind. It's the idea of the availability of it, rather than the constant doing of it, that means the most to me!
Just observations of the camps people tend to bunch into and how it tends to work out perhaps would be fabulous!!!
