Is the balance of porn power going to shift from LA to Miami-based companies originating as web enterprises? I used to think the BangBus crew was a bunch of incompetent jarheads, but aren't they now eating a lot of their competitors lunches? Curious what industry players have to say, as well as informed fans ...
As a long-time fan, who has watched the porn industry go through lots of changes, it seems to me that because of the slow down in biz, the industry will need to re-invent itself again. The studio system, agents, gonzo, features, 8-month careers, long-term contract girls, technology, on and on. It's all up in the air right now, and whatever the right mix is for the future, nobody knows. But "wherever" innovation occurs and is allowed to thrive will be the epicenter of the New Porn industry. IMO, right now Florida has the edge because people seem to be willing to take chances, and not run with the herd. The LA Porn Valley scene appears not to be flexible, creative, or open to change. They're like GM and Chrysler--not Ford. Who knows, the "New Porn" may even bring back the "fun" in porn performances. Nah...that's too much to hope for.
I wonder why Miami has become such an option for shootinh porn. Shouldn't the travel times and extra costs it brings keep them out of the equation when so much of the talent is living in LA?
I don't trust men who don't like big tits. 1067 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 6 2009 : 2:22AM
The only time I think of where my porn came from is when I notice or am told if it's porn not from the U.S. I don't think about breaking it down further as to what region of the U.S. it comes from. As long as it's good I don't care where it's from. NOW if you're telling me I will soon be able to tell a difference and it's because of where it's shot, then I'll take more notice.
I've seen pr0n from the east cost, mostly pro-am stuff from Jersey. It didn't work for me, made a mental note of the production companies and have since avoided anything that looks like Jersey. (I've reached the same conclusion about pr0n coming from Vegas.) I'm just saying that stuff from pr0n valley works for me. YMMV.
One of my darker forecasts for post-Katrina NOLA was that the area would produce some interesting talent over the next decade that would make the likes of Kelly Fuckin' Wells seem meek and well-adjusted.
Porn is not about the talent. It is about being able to sell what you can easily get your hands on and knowing how to market it effectively. The bulk of talent is based in LA, because it is the only place in US where shooting porn is legal and where there are shoots on a daily basis. There are even shoots the day after Christmas.
Florida is not a safe place to shoot porn. There is a little known Florida statute that allows a prostitute to file a civil lawsuit against her pimp for profits and punitive damages. Within that statute, the law defines pornography as a form of prostitution. Hence any model releases for content production in Florida maybe invalidated opening up a content producer in Florida to compensate the model for the money made from her efforts. This law may also be used against agents in Florida as well. Here's the statute in its entirety... I wouldnt worry about criminal prosection, I would worry about civil liability... We are about to file a federal lawsuit againts several Florida companies on the behalf of a model where this statute may be tested.And this is how prostitution is defined.... pornography can certainly fit into this definition.Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 6 2009 : 2:03PM
The main difference is the talent pool. In Fla. you get a lot of college girls that are good for one shoot. The girls in Sofla are very hot. When you buy something shot in sofla you do not see the same girls in every movie. This is a great marketing tool.
Seems like alot of the talent is transient and can easily be located where ever the filming is. There are tons of girls who just visit LA (from Vegas, NY, FLA, etc) to shoot. The issue with SoFla appears more to be the feasibility of companies filming there in any volume. Presently, you have smaller, independent, mostly for-web organizations working with a lot of newer girls...many who don't ever do another scene. This adds a little spice and even some creativity - but is it a sustainable foundation? It doesn't seem to be with all the legal issues. Florida appears often in industry news media as a state with strict filming regs and enforcement.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars 456 Posts 2/03
Posted - Apr 6 2009 : 3:33PM
I have to agree that our one of top selling producers/directors is quietly make some of the best quality gonzo movies in the biz..right now! This is Josh Stone's South Beach Cruisin #2
My porn viewing habits have gone against the flow. I started with some TGPs, etc. late in my high school years, got a much faster internet connection when I moved into the college dorms, and started joining some paysites, mainly Budapest-based ones. But as soon as I started living in my own place and could watch porn without looking over my shoulder lest a roommate walked in, for me it's been VHS or DVD on the TV all the way. With myself stretched out on a couch or futon. Oh, I still join some paysites, often mainly for the photos. I do download videos off of the paysites that look interesting, to view later, after my subscription has expired, but I usually never actually do. Anyway, when I think of most of the apparently really popular pornsites based in America, they have more of the stuff that I'm not such a big fan of from LA-based DVD porn, and less of the stuff that I do like from LA-based DVD porn. That's why I haven't joined them. Plus, Michael is right, of course. About the legal standing of porn production in Florida.
I had a client that had a contract drawn up by another attorney to sell numerous buyers clear zip lock baggies for $400. He was shocked when I told him selling the zip lock baggies for $400 and giving the pot away for free was not going to save him. He didnt like my answer either. In all reality, the Florida law will not be tested in this particular case, unless the defendants choose to litigate. Then all bets are off. Laws are never tested when there is a reasonable settlement. However, I never like going to trial unless I have the bigger bat. And just so everyone knows.... Cesar Capone is not a defendant in this case at this time, but you never know until you get into the discovery stage. I dont think we have any issue(s) with them. Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com Edited by - pornlaw on 4/6/2009 10:53:46 PM
I doubt anyone shooting porn in Florida is hugely worried about you f*cking up their game, PornLaw. But I do wonder how porn has flourished when the state's various legal authorites are so historically obscenity obsessed ... Edited by - skronker on 4/6/2009 11:25:06 PM
There was a case related to a guy who was shooting porn in the FL panhandle and got in a shit load of trouble; I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Anyway, I was under the impression that the argument supporting the legal status of porn in CA was untested outside of CA. IIRC, the legality of porn in CA rests on the concept that the performers are paid to sign the release forms; they are not being paid to perform whatever activities are being captured on media. Many seasoned veterans of the porn board such as skronker and pornlaw are probably aware of this, so I mention it for others. This has not been the case outside of CA, and was only established in CA after a bloody fight, several years ago. The other historical reasons for the majority of porn being kept in porn valley (relating to talent and equipment) are no longer true, as far as I can tell. The necessary equipment is much cheaper than it was for most porn. Gone are the days when porn was shot primarily in professional mainstream studios that were rented on days off, along with the necessary equipment. In addition, most performers do not come to porn after taking a serious shot at mainstream. Some attempt to use porn as a stepping stone to mainstream, but that is different. PS I'm not a lawyer, so feel to ask questions or correct me. PPS I've read that Brazzers shoots a fair amount outside of CA (in NV or AZ, I forget which),and come to think of it, a few other big web sites might do this too. This seemed to be worth mentioning. Edited by - Walter on 4/7/2009 12:58:14 AM
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Apr 7 2009 : 1:39AM
Helping some chick conduct what sounds an awful lot like a shakedown of Florida porn companies doesn't really seem like a great thing for an attorney who claims his practice emphasizes "the business aspect of the adult entertainment industry" to be doing. Are you just not interested in getting any (more) work from companies, agents, etc.? Or has some bigshot in Porn Valley gotten tired of seeing these Florida companies taking money out of his pocket, and put you up to this, using this girl as a stalking horse?
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 7 2009 : 4:02AM
Also just a bit of history, the only place in Fl. that there has ever been trouble was Jacksonville. The rest of the state, for sure southern Fl. has never really made any objection to hardcore. For Christs sake, just go down to South Beach, you don't need a dvd player to jerk off, just sit at a cafe for 5 minutes near the beach. I have never seen so many hot, sexy, young, did I say hot, girls in my life. If I was 24 I'd be getting laid 5 times a day down there. Not to mention the topless beaches, OMG!
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Apr 7 2009 : 4:12AM
Just remember that California is the only state that explicitly says producing porn movies is legal. (Freeman vs California). Any place else, Florida included, means that you assume some degree of risk. If you get caught you are subject to whatever D.A. who is running for re-election wants to do with you. While you might be exonerated at the end of a very long day it's going to cost you quite a bit in legal fees and whatnot. Add into the fact that you'll probably also be blamed for Caylee's disappearance and murder (along with any other missing/murdered children) it probably will not be an enjoyable experience.
^ I think you speak wisely. I'm not naive enough to think no porn gets shot outside of California in the USA, but do think their numbers are very low when compared to California. California is simply better set to produce them then any other place in the USA. Shooting a scene or movie here or there is hardly on par with what regularly gets produced in California. Shooting a scene or discrete film can probably go under-the-radar or unbothered in a lot of places, but setting up shop probably won't go over as well or unnoticed. It's been my understanding that Florida has had a small amount of films made there for years, but nothing on par with California. [mod edit: removed quote] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 4/7/2009 2:01:33 PM
Do the performers not have a business interest in the industry ? And seeing how there is approximately 1000 current performers vs. maybe 50 companies, I like the odds of future business coming from the larger talent pool. There's no one behind this case other than my client, who approached me with her situation. The performers are becoming more educated as to their rights and getting tired of being taken advantage of by the production companies. I had a call yesterday from a performer who had a production company cancel her check after she shot several scenes. Is that fair ?That would be Ray Guhn who is now serving time after taking a plea.Thats true, and we arent trying to f*** up anyone's game in Florida. I merely pointed out the law in the Florida and the risks of shooting there.If you read the statute it expressly states that a pornographic performance is coercion and thus actionable. You cannot claim that pornography is an exception to the rule when it is actually expressly stated in the statute. If you read the Georgetown Law Review article I linked above, you will see that it is really hard to enforce a contract when the basis of the consideration is sex and money. Courts have thrown out contracts between non-married couples using sex as the basis for the contract, a model release is much easier to throw out. Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Apr 7 2009 : 6:42PM
No, it states that "[e]xploitation of pornographic performance" is coercion. You can't just ignore the exploitation element, or assume that the mere fact of participating in a porn shoot will be accepted as prima facie evidence of coercion. This provision seems to me to be obviously aimed at the quaint old scenario of getting a girl to turn tricks by threatening to reveal to her spouse, family, friends, or whomever, the fact that she made a stag film. I don't see that it gives a girl who, by all indications, freely and willingly approached a porn company and shot for them, or signed up with an agent who got her work, the right to turn around and claim, "he put me in a porno, therefore I was coerced, therefore give me and my attorney money." It's a circular argument.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 7 2009 : 11:15PM
I find it hard to believe there is over 1000 adult actresses or performers in the business. Most of them show up for the AVN Awards show, and that number is not even close.
The pendulum has swung toward web sites, definitely. Miami is one of the few places in America where you can shoot outdoors year round, because of the climate. The Miami based web sites concentrate almost exclusively on shooting outside, beaches, pools, boats, and the infamous Bang Bus driving around, and then picking up a girl on the streets of Miami. I'm a bit surprised New York dosen't have a thriving porn community. I know many years ago ( 1970's ) a good deal was shot in NY, but it seems Miami has picked up the slack lately.
You make a valid point, and there is always more than one way to interpret a statute. I would have to go to the Florida version of the "Congressional Record" to see what the legislature had intended. Needless to say, what it really comes down to is how would a jury interpret it. Most pornography companies do not want to be defendants in a jury trial where there is a chance that sympathy will flow towards a "victimized" plaintiff. I have advised the companies I do represent to be very careful when deciding to litigate against performers.There's probably more but that number is from the Strongthread.com that lists every current performer at the largest agencies... The Strong Thread Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com Edited by - pornlaw on 4/8/2009 4:57:27 AM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 8 2009 : 2:10PM
I find it hard to believe there is over 1000 adult actresses or performers in the business.[/quote] There's probably more but that number is from the Strongthread.com that lists every current performer at the largest agencies... The Strong Thread Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com Edited by - pornlaw on 4/8/2009 4:57:27 AM [/quote] I am talking about the current talent pool that people use. Just because some girl wants to get into porno, doesn't mean she did. Half of those girls are unavailable, have no current address or phone. I once dissected a frog, it doesn't make me a veterinarian.
The frog part was too f***ing funny.... ahhh the difference between porn performers and pornstars. Yes, having sex with 1 frog does not make you a pornstar... Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com
There's probably more but that number is from the Strongthread.com that lists every current performer at the largest agencies... The Strong Thread Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com www.2257Safe.com Edited by - pornlaw on 4/8/2009 4:57:27 AM
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I am talking about the current talent pool that people use. Just because some girl wants to get into porno, doesn't mean she did. Half of those girls are unavailable, have no current address or phone. I once dissected a frog, it doesn't make me a veterinarian.
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Ha, ha very true. It's my understanding that a lot of the girls are sort of in and out of the industry. Not every performer lives in or near the valley, or even in California. So even though they aren't always there or visible, they are still very much in the industry. And some work more part-time or whenever they want or can. I think it makes it tough to know who is active or out of the business at times. 1,000 doesn't seem far-fetched from what I've heard over the years, although it may be lesser now with the industry supposedly in a slow-down mode.
Thank God you don't have a thriving porn community in NYC. It would be a horror show. The city I want to see more porn from is Montreal. The girls in Canada are fucking ridiculously hot. No place grows them better than California, though. Florida would be second. Texas third. But the best looking girls in the world are in California. I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, lived in the Bay Area, and have spend a lot of time in San Diego, and it's not even close. [mod edit: cropped quote] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 7/14/2009 2:11:14 AM
Wicked Pictures,Vouyer Media, Axel Braun Productions, Marc Dorcel, JoyBear Pictures, abbywinters.com 1390 Posts 7/05
Posted - Jul 13 2009 : 2:33PM
^ As a SoCal native I've always been surprised San Diego doesn't bring more to the table when it comes to fine women. Even fuckin' Newport Beach kicks its ass.
Re: Canada--- there needs to be a 60 Minutes investigation into whether ANY women have legitimate jobs in that country or if it really is just one big lumber camp up there where women survive solely by performing extras in strip clubs. Re: Florida----- I need to go to there. I've seen shockingly hot women in Arkansas. Kentucky. Minnesota. Point being, we need to find a way to confuse them into leaving those strange states in the middle of the country and get them to come to the stranger states on the coast so they can meet porn producers. I propose using the fleet of aircraft we currently devote to abducting and probing folks under the guise of alien abduction.
the West Coast OWNS,...there's no power shift. not now, not ever. lates, Von S.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 14 2009 : 4:15AM
^Looking at alot of the hot girls who are appearing on sites like BangBros, I have to disagree with you. Maybe you guys on the West Coast should start flying some of those girls out there to appear in some of your movies.
^^9 out of 10 of those Florida chicks perform like a Ferrari w/a 4 cylinder,..even the Euro chicks have a higher perfomance ratio than the Floridians,..and of course, I'm only speaking from experience. lates, Von S.
In my experience as a viewer, performance doesn't completely trump looks. I could just about cum in a matter of seconds watching a really attractive woman wash dishes whereas some of the women in porn, I can't even get started in less than 10 minutes. The Euro babes make me cum quick and hard because most of them are so gorgeous they look good doing just about anything.
^^I fully understand these 'fan' viewpoints and take nothing away from their validity. but when you're the one holding the camera and looking for some spark or honest energy on set,it's been rare in my experience to get it from the Euros and especially the Floridians, to any real degree. I say we purge florida of all mankind and give it back to the crocs,cranes and mudbugs,..jk.. lates, Von S.
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Rick James Jr Deactivated User
72 Posts 7/09
Posted - Jul 14 2009 : 10:39PM
any swingin dick with a camera can make porn now.where is the 2nd most likely place to find hot lil honeyz wanting to be a star or need money from traveling from Bumfuck,Iowa to(instead of L.A.)willing to get a facial?
