Pontus Maximus wrote:

I guess I never thought that I would post in the Gay DVD Talk Forum.
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At least as far as I’m concerned, I greatly appreciate you offering your musings in this forum. Man, you’ve covered a lot of interesting ground. When I have a chance to digest it, I’ll probably offer some of my own worthless thoughts. I do hope you get some decent responses. Meanwhile, thanks.

Billy

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~ GaySatyr

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The gays have not cornered the market on old fashioned butt sex. Lots of straight and gay men enjoy ass fucking, giving and getting. Why? it feels really really good. Really.

Try it and dont worry, it probably doesnt mean you will run out and buy Judy Garland CD's.

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Fantasies are normal, and a lot of people have fantasies they would not really want to act out. Yours are normal and shouldn't be cause for concern about your sexual identity. The woman with a penis fantasy is the reason for the popularity of the transsexual (she-male) genre with straight men. The male form can be just as sexually arousing as the female. Everyone has their own unique sexual map. Same-sex fantasies are quite common for both straight men and women.

A persons sexual orientation and desire isn't something you can decide to consciously change. There isn't a gay gene per se. It really is dependent on brain structure and function, which are set during fetal development. See my post on Brain Sex. After reading that book I have a much greater understanding of human sexuality, human behavior and how it relates to our society. I consider myself bisexual, but my primary attraction is for women. I don't get turned on in the same way for men. When watching gay, bi or transsexual movies it's usually the performers response and not their physical appearance that are most arousing to me, though it's always nice to be watching attractive people. I'm married and have kids. I chose to be with a woman, but I can't deny my bisexuality. Whether or not I actually have sex again with another man is irrelevant to that fact. A persons orientation can shift over the course of their life. When I first married, I thought that my fling with the gay life was just a phase, but as time went by my fantasies and desire didn't go away. In mid-life crisis it hit me like a ton of bricks.

Male to female transsexuals are physically male, but their brain is female, and that is how they see themselves. Hormone therapy for a sex change irreversibly alters them to grow breasts, redistribute the fat to muscle ratios, and inhibits hair growth. It isn't just makeup and silicone that makes them look and act female. If I tried to act female, I'd end up looking like a flaming queen.

Anal sex has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It has more to do with available equipment. It is only "normal" for a male to penetrate a female because he has a penis. Therefore it is "normal" to expect anal sex to occur between two gay men. A woman taking a strap-on and penetrating a male is still heterosexual, and just as normal since people are quite good at fashioning tools for just about any use. If you think it's not normal, what about two lesbians having anal sex with a strap-on? Hmmm.

Homophobia seems to be a uniquely male institution. You aren't homophobic, just heterosexual with an attitude of tolerance and acceptance. I think that is the normal state of affairs. It is civilization and our society that has fostered the homophobic attitude. Being bisexual, this is something that has been the focus of my thoughts for a long, long time. Males in particular seem to feel threatened by the outsider, and more prone to violence than women. Again, this goes back to basic biology and brain function. Women are more empathetic with a live and let live attitude.

I like the butch dyke with strap-on example. Straight men like girl-girl for it's visual stimulation. They don't want real lesbians (there wouldn't be anything in it for them.)

If I had a magic pill, it would be one to forever cure homophobia. That reminds me of the movie Biagra, with the pill that could make straight men or gay men bisexual.

Edited by - RobHammer on 8/12/2003 3:52:00 AM

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Maybe I’ve seen too much in life but I rarely get upset and haven’t for a long, long time over what people might think about me. It’s not easy to hang up the inhibitions but I think I mostly have. I think most gays probably share that sentiment, at least in part. Having actually been called a flaming faggot so many times I can’t list them, it’s sort of like water off a duck’s back. Not that I tolerate verbal abuse; I don’t, at least not now. But I can’t control what folks think. I think the world would probably be better off if more people decided they didn’t give a flying fuck about what others thought of their behavior, sexual and otherwise, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. You probably should have told your wife you would love her to fuck your ass with a strap-on dick. And encouraged, nay, begged her to tell her mother. Would have made for some interesting family get-togethers. And since you ended up getting divorced anyway, in retrospect, what would it have mattered? But that’s easy for me to say, not being in your position.

As for fantasies, everybody I know has them, some of them fairly off the wall, and they’re all good. I’ve fantasized about having a lineup of women…well, I won’t go into details. But, like you, not all my fantasies get me sexually aroused, some are just fun. And I don’t think the ones I have about women make me any less gay. Yours don’t strike me as particularly unusual, even for a straight guy.

There is the thing about the homophobic insecure straight guys. Boy, do I know about that. I went to a Big 10 university and participated heavily in intramural sports. Most of the guys I hung around with were just that insecure and straight as an arrow. But you never know. My closest friend in college was the jock to end all jocks and yet he was gay and nobody (I think) knew. I think a lot of the attitude was a cover because most of them probably had the same kinds of private sexual fantasies you had or similar. And a lot of homophobic insecurity is situation-specific. Get these guys alone and honestly open them up and it’s different personalities altogether.

I don’t know whether this relates directly or not but I’ve noticed in forums of mixed sexual orientations, including this one, that straight peoples’ comments are far more often welcomed and responded to in the “gay” sections than gay folks’ comments are welcomed and responded to in the straight sections. Maybe more of the same insecurities on display.

Let me provide a disclaimer before I get into the religious discussion. I’m probably the wrong person to listen to on this topic since the religious stuff was and remains largely a mystery to me. I was raised as a barely nominal Christian but never went to church regularly and don’t consider myself particularly religious. Hence, it is difficult for me to understand why people would want to belong to an organization that at its core really doesn’t want them as a member. There are lots of denominations that are gay-oriented or friendly—Metropolitan Community Church, United Church of Christ, etc. Others have (usually self-sanctioned) gay sub-organizations—Gay Catholics, etc. But for the life of me I cannot understand why someone would want to be a Gay Mormon, for example. I wonder whether these people are actually attracted to the God/Christ aspects of that particular denomination or just to the traditions, rituals, camaraderie, etc. of that church. Like pro-choice Catholics, for another example. I don’t get it. The Catholic faith has a right to set up whatever belief-criteria it wants for its members. In my opinion, if you don’t like it, get out. Go be something else. There are plenty of places where you can fit in. Some of the mainline Protestant churches take the view that as long as you do not act on your homosexual “urges” you’re still a good Christian. It’s the so-called victory theology that says "You may have homosexual urges, but you don't have to act on them." I view that as another giant pile of cow plop. My urges are a part of who I am. And I do act on them and I don’t plan to stop so I can join some church. Here’s a page or two from Money, Sex, and Power by Keith Drury that gives the Methodist take on this crap. And see
this site for a more comprehensive listing of views among the major Christian denominations.

I feel the same way about straight people who dabble in porn or even act out their sexual fantasies. It’s analogous to the Benjamin Franklin quote, “Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” God, if he exists, made us very sexual beings and I’ll bet he wants us to be all we can be.

The ex-gay thing is a joke. Just google “ex-gay” and you’ll get a ton of articles like [ invalid url ] . NOTE: The link I inserted doesn't work, but if you will go to www.hatecrime.org you'll see the link for the Ex-Gay article I meant to refer to. There’s just no such thing as being “cured” of being homosexual. They haven’t yet found the gay gene and maybe it’s a combination of a lot of genetics and some environment, but I’m betting heavily on the genetics. If I were somehow, by a miracle, a sentient entity or soul before conception and I had a choice, knowing what I know now, would I have chosen to be straight as opposed to gay? Sure. It would have been an easier life. But now? Even if the ex-gay brainwashing worked or there was a magic “straight” pill I could take, I would flat-out never do it. I’m too satisfied in the gay life to change.

I just read a good article on the recent RE-outing of Michael Johnston, one of the leaders of the evangelical right's so-called "ex-gay" movement. Mr. Johnston who is trotted out as having been cured of his homosexuality has apparently been boinking guys on the sly, and, bastard that he is, not telling them that he's HIV+. I think the article was in The List, a gay newsletter and if I can find it I'll post the address.

Finally, let me address R Dundy’s comment about Judy Garland CDs. Frankly, I resent it in the extreme. I much prefer seeing Babs atop that tugboat belting out “Don’t Rain on My Parade.”

Billy

“Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death.”

Mame Dennis

Edited by - BillyJizz on 8/12/2003 7:55:37 PM

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First, let me make it clear what this meant:

Alrightie, let's proceed, shall we?

Please don't misunderstand, Billy, the last paragraph isn't me being intolerant or judgmental. That's just what I interpret the Bible as saying. There are a great many scriptures that I could cite that would support the above conclusions (however disagreeable they might be for some people). Keep in mind that I've already indicated that I, myself, operate outside those parameters (perhaps most people do during the course of their lives). In fact, I think it is utterly impossible for a person to live his/her life without sinning, which is precisely why I believe that everyone, without exception, needs salvation through Jesus Christ in order to make it to Heaven when they die. Granted, that is my belief. I understand that not everyone shares this belief (nor am I trying to force it on anyone).

Well, guys, I am very happy that I started this thread. I've learned a great deal as a result. I've also been pointed in directions that will enable me to learn a great deal more. Thanks to you all for sharing.

Pontus

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Just a note on the transsexual reference. Of course there is a lot of reversion if the person stops taking hormones. The most irreversible effect is breast tissue. Any real growth does not go away.

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This is a very interesting thread that you started.

I'm a straight guy, and I'm very into my ass. I think that Bruce Seven's "Hardriders with a Soft Touch" was the video that really opened up this idea for me, too, years ago. My wife has fucked me in the ass with a strap-on a couple of times at my encouragement, but it freaked her out. Too bad, because I enjoyed it. I've also had her ass-fuck me with a dildo a few times while I jacked off (and I really got turned on by telling her to "Fuck me in the ass, baby!"). Again, great for me but, sadly, a turn-off for her.

My wife has a beautiful ass -- one that I'd love to worship with my fingers, tongue, cock, toys . . . whatever. But she's not into her own ass any more than she's into mine, so our adventures in that realm have also been few and far between. It seems a crying shame to me, but then everybody's mind/body is different.

As a consequence, I save my ass-play for solo sex these days. Because it's difficult for me to coordinate using two hands on myself at the same time, I've more or less dispensed with solo dildo-thrusting. I find that using butt-plugs during masturbation works best.

The moral of my meandering story is that your sexual identification (straight/bi/gay) is not determined by the parts of your body that you like to pleasure, but by the gender(s) of the people that you like to pleasure them with. My take, anyway, for what it's worth.

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