Nacho Vidal

Than might be fine if you assume that Nacho is an ultimate authority. I don't subscribe to that.

DenverDon

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I am such a loser

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This is a surprise?

If a girl wants to do porn because she hates working at McDonalds or Wal-Mart, that's fine. I can respect that, but if she needs the money for drugs or because she lives in a second world country, it's more difficult for me to enjoy her work.

I'm not a mind reader however, and it's impossible for me to know, just how miserable any performer really is.

CC

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They don't even try to build themselves a career by progressing little by little in what they accept to do.
The concurrence is so big that they accept almost everything from the start. And it’s not because they are outstandingly naughty babes.
Sure you'll always find some who actually like what they do, but this area has produced so many porn girls that it is very likely that the vast majority wasn't really inclined to do what they are doing.
Some viewers might be happy with thinking that there’s actually nothing wrong with what happens to those girls, that pornography just came into those girls’ lifes and offered them the opportunity to free themselves from both the economical and social stereotypes of their harsh background, that they were indeed hot babes in need to reveal themselves. But that’s either a vain pro-sex belief or a fake justification to avoid feeling too bad about jacking off to their pretty faces. Because I'm quite sure that when you are a woman living in such countries, you can't even afford the luxury to intellectualize your sex life.
Of course, they’re consenting adults, most of the time they weren’t really forced into porn. So I suppose it means nobody’s to blame. Still you can be sure that it’s more likely to be their harsh life which lead them into the adult business, than their fantasies.
The sad fact is that it is their misery which is used as the fuel to satisfy our fantasies.
You do what you have to do to make a living, and sometimes just to pay your studies.
Eastern names have become such synonyms of exploitation that many get theirs changed for something more glamorous. Like at Private, with for instance Romagnoli turning the names of his recruits into sexier Italian patronyms.
When you have to walk in line into those Budapest hotel rooms to be casted by strangers, it sure takes a lot of guts to do and it’s no fun. And then there’s an escorting job for most of them, even the biggest names. Sure it’s not exclusive to Eurogirls, but I’m not sure it’s been brought to that level and done so openly among their US peers.
When you hear many of those girls’ answers in interviews, they are often generic and cold, or sometimes distant and derisive. Not so funny, mostly ironical.
Sure they are adults, and treating them as poor girls mislead into porn would after all be a very contemptuous and derogative way of behaviour towards the independent women they are. Still you can’t help but thinking about their background and the fact that many of them would probably not be there for your enjoyment if they had simply grown free of communism.

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XOXO,
Pason
www.pasonxxx.com

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- - - B-I-G-m-i-k-e, over & out! - - -

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On the other hand, its not good to automatically lump all European performers into this mold. Some are truly beautiful and amazing performers, that do enjoy their work, and the fame it affords them.

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Was the TV show with Nacho Vidal from Spain, or another country? Did he say anything about working with American actresses? Did he wish this situation with the European girls was different?

I've seen him with Hungarian women, and with American women, and he seems happier with the Americans because he can talk to them easily and joke with them before a scene starts.

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Erik Everhard

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I'm just back from Prague where I shot 21 scenes as talent and produced 4 scenes for my next movie. The majority of the girls had a good time and delivered enthusiastic scenes. We went out to dinner and clubs after shooting and fucked for fun in private.

Naturally they are not as verbal, because they don't speak good English.

There are girls with less good attitude in L.A., Budapest and Prague. I try to avoid them.

Steve Holmes

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But once again, I'm not judging anybody and even more obviously, I never meant to be offensive towards the East European community as a whole. Not a single second. I just wonder if it was really all those girls' innermost desire to live the life they are living, especially considering the vast pool of pornstars with the same background who are part of this biz.

Edited by - GuiM on 2/27/2004 10:40:19 AM

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This is from an excellent review by marquis, on ADE:

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I just provided the example of a girl who according to you is a contemporary icon of East European porn, but nonetheless works as a prostitute like a significant number of her peers from that area, which seems to me (but maybe I'm wrong) higher than the proportion of US stars doing the same.
Not that I have much to criticize about prostitution as long as it's voluntary. Still you are left to wonder if such an orientation results primarily from the girls' intimate choices or more from a chain of consequences and social changes that surround their lifes.

I think your last statement about the way those girls are treated says it all and does not really deny what we were telling earlier on about the fact that those girls accept questionable working conditions without having much time to think about themselves and how they really feel. Once again I don't want to put the blame on those girls, nor do I want to despise an entire culture as you may think.
And I don't know either Luger or Vouyer or any other US porn director/producer to blame them.
I simply point a general social/economical context that seems to lead many of those girls to embrace porn, ofen too quickly and without being given much chance to think about it.
Now I understand that you might find a derogatory depiction of your culture through this topic, but it was never intended like that.
I'm not saying that East European girls are all money-driven by nature, but no matter what you say I'll keep on thinking that social/economical factors governing their countries of origin hold a bigger part in their professional choices than for girls from other countries, at least as a general rule.

Edited by - GuiM on 2/27/2004 12:05:00 PM

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Me and a bunch of friends stopped posting on RAME altogether
ALSO because we were so tired of all the generalizations about Eurowhores.
Why is so important for you to point out this thing?
I'm from a very rich country of Western-Europe, so I'm quite neutral on the subject.
I wouldn't NEVER say things like "US girls are all on crack" or call them WHORES as if it were common sense. How dare you? "Eurosluts"? All the women from California are whores. I saw it on Baywatch. How does that sound? People have been banned from this Board for that.
I'm also wondering...
Who buys all those dvd's with Simony or Lucy Lee on the covers? Euro Idiots like me?
Everyone is always so RESPECTFUL on this Forum, about other people's tastes, about companies and directors. But not when it's time to slur those girls.
Then it's ok.
At least Riley is "intelligent".

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Consider that western cultures put a lot of effort into telling girls they need to be beautiful and wanted. Consider that boys spend a lot of time and effort getting cute chicks to 'party' with them. So, if you're not really ambitious and you're good looking and like partying, why shouldn't you do porn? All of a sudden what society has been telling you is good is now bad just because you're getting paid for it? Ahahahahaha!

And what's up with the 'they're only in it for the money?' Of COURSE they're in it for the money. They'd have to be Paris Hilton (ugh) for it to be otherwise.

And then we have the underlying theme that porn is somehow worse than a 'normal' job. Is it better or worse than sitting in some stupid office all day doing jack shit and maybe having to bang the boss when he's in the mood? Hmmm, fat, ugly boss vs Nacho; fat, ugly boss vs Manuel Ferrara. Porn's looking better all the time.

So what if there are bad days at the porn office. Does that mean we should feel sorry for these girls and believe they could do something 'better' with their lives? I don't think so. They're muddling through like the rest of us and having fun when they can. Some will come out just fine and some will come out feeling used. Just like the rest of us. Ya'll need to get over yourselves.

PS - I think I'll go be a 'tard with Sbando Boy.

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Well, that leaves only the Brazilian babes. As Tom Byron once said: "In my experience, it's rare to find a Brazilian NOT into sex!"
But oh, wait. Aren't those girls poor? I mean really poor?

Hardware and Sbando, is there some room left for me?




DP Jones said:
"There is a sexual documentary series in which women are interviewed before performing sex acts. The documentary filmmaker is named Ed Powers."

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BUT...I'm sure even Nacho goes through dry spells, where all of the girls he tries to cast display mercenary attitudes, and if you put a camera in his face at that moment, he'll express his frustration. I've only met Nacho briefly, but I've discussed him with many people who know him well, such as Toni Ribas and Trisha D., and they confirmed privately what Toni stated above, that Nacho's thoughts and views tend to change by the minute (and he lives in the moment).

I should also point out that guys such as those seen above, Toni, Steve, Erik, and others such as Denis Marti, Manuel, and Teo Roccoforte, do see the actresses as more than just pieces of meat, and the results show in their scenes. As Sbando points out, this topic has been discussed many times, and my response remains the same, which is to indicate that simply watching a scene with European talent (no matter where it is shot) isn't good enough. Most of these "Eurowhores" are only going to make an effort to give a good scene if they are in an environment that makes them comfortable (it's the same reason Joey Silvera usually gets the best scenes with various American performers). Plenty of directors make no effort to do more than simply get a girl plugged early and often, and I won't mention the name of a prime example, except to point out that it rhymes with Pierre Woodman. PW does what he does, and plenty of people enjoy it, and there's no problem, except if you want to see some good chemistry. The point is that if all you ever saw was a Woodman scene of a certain girl, you might consider her purely mercenary, until you saw her again working with, say, Nacho (an example is Claudia "Zita Bernstein" Ricci in Madness 1 compared with her scenes in Killer Pussy 4 and Hardcore Innocence 1). If you expand the list of directors at both spectrums, I can come up with a long list of girls who show much more personality when working with guys they like as actors and directors.

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Most of you, posting in this thread, I mean, have little or no porn culture. You were not around in the early 90's, when US porngirls were the epitome of fucking and sucking corpses with lousy attitudes. No one in his right mind would have dared to say back then: "It's the Americans! They're a bunch of whores! Streetwalking whores!".
Of course there's truth in what you're saying. But why say it over and over again?
And who buys all those dvds, to watch pretty girls being abused by gentlemen like Vince and co.? Me, I don't buy them.

Sbando Boy, first class Euro tard.

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As Sbando Boy states that he is tired of posting at RAME because of people bashing on euro girls, I myself am tired of hearing-

'it's the usual bunch of trite clichés you Americans seem so fond of.'

'I do think some of you are just too ignorant'

'Most of you, posting in this thread, I mean, have little or no porn culture.'

So thank you Sbando Boy for generalizing as quickly as you think Nacho Vidal or anyone else here has done.

I think its important to go back to the source, Nacho Vidal, and look at what he said. First, it would be nice to get a transcript of the interview. Because with all this paraphrasing of his comments its hard to read into what Nachos' opinion was without seeing what someone else believes. Even the intial post is confusing as to what European25 thinks is true and what Nacho Vidal said.

From what I have read in the posts here; Nacho seems to have an opinion that Euro girls are (and this a paraphrase) not fun to work with and are robotic. Now, since I haven't made any Reverse gangbangs or done a killer pussy series lately, I will take Nachos opinion and value it at the very least as being true to how he feels. Even if it was a passing thought, it was honest. Which is good to hear; because, if nothing else, at least its not smoke and mirrors or him trying to just give a answer to please fans, etc.

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Anyway, you're the big brains and I'm the retarded one.
Ok, I'll stop posting on ADT too. Well done.

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... and plenty of mudslinging is spiraling this downward - again.

As some have said, this has been covered (argued) many times.

This current battle is closed.

Edited by - DenverDon on 2/27/2004 4:30:03 PM

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