Need Advice Regarding Computer Repair Company

Author	Post
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 12:07AM Recently, I couldn't get my operating system to start on my old computer and arranged to have it repaired by a local computer repair company. One of their technicians, Harry, stopped by my residence with the intention of fixing the problem on site. However, after doing some diagnostics, he said that my computer would need to be taken to their computer repair shop for more advanced diagnostics than what he could provide at my residence. I let Harry take my computer to their repair shop. This computer repair company subsequently informed me that my hard drive had failed but that they would be able to recover and transfer the data from it to another computer. I had been planning to buy a new computer for quite sometime, but kept procrastining since my (then) current computer was still working okay (until the operating system failed to start). So, I bought a new computer with the intention of having the computer repair company recover and transfer the data from my old computer onto my new one. During these proceedings, I made it clear to the computer repair company (including Harry and one of their office managers named Tommy) that I wanted my old computer returned to me after the data transfer. They agreed that this would be done. When another of their technicians (Larry) arrived at my residence to do the data transfer to my new computer, he did not bring my old computer (he said no one had instructed him to). However, because Harry had previously backed up the data from my old computer onto one of their own external hard drives, Larry was still able to transfer my data from their external hard drive onto my new computer. I didn't get back all of my data, but I got back most of it. I subsequently made an arrangement with Tommy (office manager) for one of their technicians to bring back my old computer. However, when this techinician (Larry again) arrived, he only showed up with the actual hard drive itself, but not the hard drive along with the case or tower that it was encased in. Larry claimed that that was the deal, but whether I had used the words "please bring back my computer" or "please bring back my hard drive," I'm pretty sure they knew what I meant. Furthermore, even though it has my name taped to it, I'm not even 100% sure that the hard drive that Larry brought back is actually the one that was in my old computer. I didn't realize this until Larry left. On his last visit, he had given me something called a Belarc Advisor report that provided an extremely detailed listing of all of the hardware and software that was on my old computer. I see nothing on the hard drive he brought me that matches up with anything on the Belarc Advisor report (even the brand names don't match up). The reason that I want my old computer back has to do with security issues (there's some hardcore porn--nothing illegal--on my old computer, years worth of FireFox bookmarks that I wasn't able to get back after the data transfer, years worth of email that I also wasn't able to get back with the data transfer, possibly a word processing document listing my user names/passwords for various websites, plus many other private/sensitive documents). Along those same lines, another reason that I want my old computer back is because at some point in the future, I might decide to have a data recovery company attempt to get back some of the data off my old computer that the repair company wasn't able to get. I've already paid them in full for their services and so I can't withhold payment in order to get them to return my old computer. I never told them that they could keep my property (in fact, I said the exact opposite, that I wanted them to bring it back, and made that clear all along--or so I had thought). Again, even if I used the phrase "please bring back my hard drive," I'm pretty sure that, in the context of our conversations, they knew exactly what I meant (meaning, bring back my old computer). I plan to call them tomorrow in an effort to get my old computer back, but I am anticipating that they are going to refuse to cooperate and offer up one excuse or another (for example, they might claim that they no longer have my old computer or that all of the data on it has now been erased). If they make such a claim, and if it's not true, how could I prove it? Plus, even if it weren't true when they made the claim, they could subsequently make it true by physically getting rid of the computer or erasing the data on it. Here's where I need advice. If I do call them back tomorrow as planned and they refuse to cooperate (as I'm expecting), should I threaten them with going to the police and reporting my old computer as stolen (by them) since I never authorized them to keep it? Or if they don't cooperate, would it be better to seemingly accept whatever they say, not become upset, not mention anything about going to the police, but then subsequently file a stolen property report with the police (and explain the situation in detail regarding my dealings with this computer repair company)? Or should I not call them at all (so as not to tip my hand, but instead go straight to the police, explain the situation to them, and let them investigate the matter--I would love for the police to show up at their place of business unexpectedly to them and with a search warrant)? Or should I just accept the complete loss of my old computer, along with everything that's still on the hard drive, and move on? I'm thinking that I might need to get the police involved, but I'm a little worried in this sense. Years ago, I remember reading an online article about how some pedophiles have found ways to hack into other people's computers and store child porn in inconspicuous places on their computers (well hidden from the people who's computers have been hacked). I think the chances of this happening are extremely slim, but it has happened to people. If it does happen, legally, it would be almost impossible to prove that you didn't place the child porn there yourself (meaning, you might end up going to prison and becoming a registered sex offender for life for someone else's crime). I'm not very worried about something like this happening (because, like I stated, the odds are very slim), but what if I'm mistaken and I AM a victim of this and find out after I get the police involved in my case against the computer repair company? At any rate, I started off trusting this computer repair company, but now I don't trust them at all. I now regret that I let them take my old computer from my place of residence. But as they say, hindsight is 20/20. Should I just let it go or pursue a case against the computer repair company? [Link]
Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03	Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 5:05AM Sounds to me like you told them "I want my old hard drive back," and they gave you your old hard drive back. If you want the whole system back, just call them up and tell them. I see no reason to think they would have gone through the ridiculous charade of sending the guy back out to hand you a hard drive that wasn't really yours, and no reason to involve the police in this in any way. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 5:49AM Harri, thanks for the reply. Did you read this part: On his last visit, he had given me something called a Belarc Advisor report that provided an extremely detailed listing of all of the hardware and software that was on my old computer. I see nothing on the hard drive he brought me that matches up with anything on the Belarc Advisor report (even the brand names don't match up). Click to expand On the report, it stated that my old hard drive is a Samsung SP2004c, 200.05 GB, hard drive. The one Larry gave me is a Maxtor 250 GB hard drive. Also, the serial number on the Belarc Advisor for my old hard drive doesn't match the serial number on the hard drive Larry gave me. I'm no techie, so maybe I'm confused. However, the Belarc Advisor is very accurate regarding all of the other information it listed. Harri, don't people commonly refer to their computer (here, I mean the tower or enclosure itself along with its contents) as their hard drive? In my conversations with them, I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant. Why couldn't they just automatically return what I gave them without my having to be so precise in my language? Harri, you might be right in that if I call them, there won't be a problem. However, I sense that there might be, which is why I'm seeking advice. I should also note that Tommy, the office manager, had quoted me a price of $250.00 for diagnostics and data recovery/transfer (in other words, for the complete job), but when Larry later presented me with the bill, the price came to $490.00 without any prior warning or explanation. I subsequently contacted Tommy and negotiated the price down to $370.00, but that was still $120.00 more than I originally agreed to. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 8:20AM Harri Patel wrote: I see no reason to think they would have gone through the ridiculous charade of sending the guy back out to hand you a hard drive that wasn't really yours... Click to expand Here's one possible motive. What if the hard drive didn't really fail but they just lied in order to end up charging me more money? As it turned out, they charged me $120.00 for Harry's initial diagnosis at my place of residence, charged me another $120.00 supposedly for a subsequent diagnosis at their facilities, and then charged me $250.00 for the recovery/data transfer (despite the fact that, initially, Tommy told me that the whole project would cost only $250.00). If they had been lying all along, then of course, the last thing they would do is return my old hard drive (once again, the brand names and serial numbers don't match). [Link]
loveporn Member 186 Posts 5/07	Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 1:02PM my advice is to use google to search for any repairs you need to do to your computer and do it yourself. you will find many detailed instructions on any repairs you need to do for a tenth of the price. [Link]

Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14606 Posts 3/02	Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 1:05PM It sounds like you're talking about a hard disk failure, which is not the same thing as a computer failure. A computer may fail because the fan stops working, allowing the CPU to overheat (essentially, allowing it to melt), or because the power supply stops working, or because some other component fails. If the repair company took your entire computer then they should have returned your entire computer. If they only took the drive out of your computer then they should have returned the drive. However, there are different types of drive failures, and it may be that the type your drive experienced required the company to physically dismantle the drive in order to extract the ceramic disc that actually has the data written on it. If that was the case then I can understand why they wouldn't think to return the pieces to you - they are completely worthless. What I don't understand is why you weren't told exactly what was done to recover your data. However, the amount of money they charged you is much less than I would expect had they been forced to physically remove the platter, so I'm guessing that you're just dealing with a small company that isn't very well managed. That doesn't mean they aren't technically proficient, it just means that whatever the guy who dealt with you said didn't get communicated to the guy who actually did the work. Odds are that your drive was out the door in the trash bin before you called to demand its return. Regardless, I advise against pursuing a case against the company, it would just be throwing good money after bad. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 2:00AM You're going to get your best practical result by making a physical appearance at the repair company and personally demanding that they immediately hand over your property. If they say no, pull out your cell phone right there, call the local police at a non-emergency number (i.e, not 911), tell the switchboard person who and where you are, and say that you'd like to report a criminal fraud. That call won't lead anywhere with the police, but it may make the people at the company more responsive. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 2:05AM Pontus Maximus wrote: I've already paid them in full for their services and so I can't withhold payment in order to get them to return my old computer. Click to expand If you didn't pay them in cash, you may have recourse. If you wrote them a check and it hasn't cleared yet, you can call your bank and ask them to stop payment. If you gave them a credit card, you can report the situation to the Cardmember Claims Department and attempt to decline payment. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 3:37AM @ Bob: I'm seriously considering your idea of actually showing up there and demanding my property. I think it's pretty presumptious of them to just keep a customer's property without any authorization from that customer whatsoever. Even if they're not lying and the hard drive did fail, I could still replace the hard drive with another one and keep my old computer as a back-up computer. That computer does still have value and I did pay for it. Why should they get to keep it without my permission? The more I think about it, the more sure I am that they should have just automatically returned it without my having to ask for it in the first place. And while I'm there, I intend to bring the Belarc Advisor report along with the hard drive they gave me and point out to them why I'm concerned that the hard drive they gave me might not be the one that came from my computer (certainly ,the brand names and serial numbers don't match). I really appreciate your advice, Bob. Thank you. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 4:06AM Hardware wrote: If the repair company took your entire computer then they should have returned your entire computer. Click to expand Agreed. They did, in fact, take my entire computer, but only returned the hard drive. However, there are different types of drive failures, and it may be that the type your drive experienced required the company to physically dismantle the drive in order to extract the ceramic disc that actually has the data written on it. If that was the case then I can understand why they wouldn't think to return the pieces to you - they are completely worthless. Click to expand As I mentioned above, Larry (one of their technicians) did bring back a hard drive (though I suspect that it isn't the one that was in my old computer for the reasons I cited above). I spoke with Tommy (office manager) about the possibility of at some point in the future my taking that hard drive to a company that specializes in data recovery (in order to retrieve data from that drive that his company wasn't able to get). Tommy did expresss the opinion that that's a good idea and that I could, in fact, do that (which implies that my hard drive was not destroyed). Then, too, the hard drive that Larry gave me was physically intact and (according to them) was pulled from my old computer. What I don't understand is why you weren't told exactly what was done to recover your data. Click to expand Hardware, I think they did mention it, but frankly, technical jargon tends to go over my head. The gist of it, though, is that in order to extract the data from my old hard drive they required some type of machinery or tools (or whatever) that was/were located there in their shop (which is why [supposedly] Harry, the first technician who came to my residence, wasn't able to do the work himself on site). Whether Harry was being truthful or not, I simply don't know because I lack technical finesse. Regardless, I advise against pursuing a case against the company, it would just be throwing good money after bad. Click to expand I think I'm going to follow Bob's advice. I don't plan on spending any more money (except the cost of gasoline to drive over to their shop). [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 4:07AM loveporn wrote: my advice is to use google to search for any repairs you need to do to your computer and do it yourself. you will find many detailed instructions on any repairs you need to do for a tenth of the price. Click to expand That's great advice, loveporn. Thanks. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 4:11AM Oh, I just wanted to add that NONE of my porn was lost when the old hard drive failed. ALL of that was backed up to multiple external hard drives. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 12:56PM Like Hardware said, it's kind of weird that they told you it was a hard drive failure and then claimed they were able to save a bunch of your data. I'm not real knowledgeable about that but I was under the impression that this is not something that's easy to do. IOW, they would have to send it somewhere that specializes in recovering data from dead hard drives and it would therefore be expensive. I just can't imagine a small computer repair shop taking a hard drive apart there in the shop for data recovery. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14606 Posts 3/02	Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 5:32PM ^ Assuming the hard drive did not physically fail but simply had a bad boot sector, the drive itself might work fine, but the operating system would not load. Obviously, this is a failure in terms of letting you get work done, but it is not necessarily a failure which requires that the drive be replaced. However, it would be prudent to run diagnostics on the drive to determine how many other sectors were bad. If a good portion of the drive is unreadable then it is better to just scrap it. Either way, there's no excuse for a shop not returning your property to you. When I suggested that Pontus Maximus not pursue the matter I was thinking the shop had his drive, not his entire computer. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 3:13AM @ RandomPrecision: Initially, once they had my computer at their shop, they told me that they would be able to recover ALL of my data (they went out of their way to reassure me of this). They said absolutely none of my data was loss. However, once Larry showed up to do the data transfer, then it became apparent that not all of my data was recovered (hence, they breached their initial promise). When I spoke to Tommy, the office manager, he told me that, in order to get the remaining data, that I would have to go to a company that specializes in that and that prices would start at $800+ and could climb well into the thousands of dollars. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I happened to pick a bad repair company. [Link]

Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 3:32AM Hardware wrote: ^ Assuming the hard drive did not physically fail but simply had a bad boot sector, the drive itself might work fine, but the operating system would not load. Obviously, this is a failure in terms of letting you get work done, but it is not necessarily a failure which requires that the drive be replaced. Click to expand Hardware, come to think of it, in a subsequent telephone conversation, Harry (the first technician who came to my residence) did, in fact, state that a computer virus had destroyed the boot sector. He told me the name of the virus, but I no longer remember the name of it. Either way, there's no excuse for a shop not returning your property to you. When I suggested that Pontus Maximus not pursue the matter I was thinking the shop had his drive, not his entire computer. Click to expand Understood. I plan on stopping by that repair shop on Friday (1 October 2010), around noon. I sure hope I can get my old computer back, along with my actual hard drive (I'm pretty sure the one Larry gave me is not mine). [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 8:20AM Hardware wrote: ^ Assuming the hard drive did not physically fail but simply had a bad boot sector, the drive itself might work fine, but the operating system would not load. Obviously, this is a failure in terms of letting you get work done, but it is not necessarily a failure which requires that the drive be replaced. Click to expand Hardware, before I called a computer repair company, I could have restored my pc myself (without launching the operating system). The only problem was, just before I was about to do it, there was a warning on the screen that doing so would wipe out all of the data put on the machine since it came from the factory. That was unacceptable, and so I called a computer repair company instead. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14606 Posts 3/02	Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 2:55PM I'm pretty sure the drive you got back isn't your, either. From the message you describe, it sounds like you were about to reinstall the operating system, which would have overwritten the file system. That would have made your files much harder to get at. You know, it puzzles me why "Harry" didn't just restore the boot sector. There are utilities you can use to do that. Maybe he tried and it didn't work, but if that were the case I think it would have been worth mentioning the fact to you. Maybe he's gotten used to people's eyes glazing over when he goes into technical detail so he no longer even tries. At any rate, unless you have such a utility (and are prepared to mess about with it), the best way to recover your data is as follows: a) take out the old drive b) install a new drive and load Windows on it. c) put the old drive back in as a secondary drive. Windows should see the secondary drive and be able to read the file system. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2940 Posts 1/08	Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 4:50PM Hardware wrote: You know, it puzzles me why "Harry" didn't just restore the boot sector. There are utilities you can use to do that. Maybe he tried and it didn't work, but if that were the case I think it would have been worth mentioning the fact to you. Maybe he's gotten used to people's eyes glazing over when he goes into technical detail so he no longer even tries. Click to expand Or maybe "Harry" is an opportunist who knows he can charge more for a "data recovery/backup/transfer" job than for a "fix the boot sector" job. (Well it needed to be said) [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 11:22PM Pontus Maximus wrote: I really appreciate your advice, Bob. Thank you. Click to expand You're welcome. I hope you get a good result. I'm a big believer in the benefits of non-violent, reasonable confrontation. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 11:27PM Hardware wrote: You know, it puzzles me why "Harry" didn't just restore the boot sector. There are utilities you can use to do that. Maybe he tried and it didn't work, but if that were the case I think it would have been worth mentioning the fact to you. Maybe he's gotten used to people's eyes glazing over when he goes into technical detail so he no longer even tries. Click to expand Hardware, Harry is his real name. All of the names I've used regarding the people at the computer repair company are their real names. As I speculated in a previous post in this thread, and as ninja1 subsequently speculated, I suspect that they've been lying in order to make more money off me. I can't prove this, however, and I might be wrong, but I doubt it. This speculation is based on Larry giving me the wrong hard drive (which would prevent me from discovering that all of my data was there all along and didn't need to be "recovered"). Larry giving me the wrong hard drive might have been due to an honest mistake on their part, but I doubt it because, like me, they have access to the hard drive serial numbers and brand names. Also, they should have brought back my computer without my even having to ask them for it. Lastly, the final price that they told me I'd have to pay was double the initial price quoted. The simple fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people are, like me, not technically savvy with computers. I think companies such as the one I've been dealing with have learned to unfairly exploit this situation to their financial advantage and make it a regular part of how they do business. At any rate, unless you have such a utility (and are prepared to mess about with it), the best way to recover your data is as follows: a) take out the old drive b) install a new drive and load Windows on it. c) put the old drive back in as a secondary drive. Windows should see the secondary drive and be able to read the file system. Click to expand Great information, Hardware. Thanks. I wish I had known that all along. I'll NEVER trust another computer repair company. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 11:36PM ninja1 wrote: Or maybe "Harry" is an opportunist who knows he can charge more for a "data recovery/backup/transfer" job than for a "fix the boot sector" job. Click to expand Ninja1, I hear ya. I basically expressed the same sentiment in the fourth post of this thread. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 12:17AM Bob wrote: I hope you get a good result. I'm a big believer in the benefits of non-violent, reasonable confrontation. Click to expand Bob, I did stop by there on Friday as planned. Here's what happened. It appeared to be a small office. When you first walk in, you're in a lobby with a large partitian preventing you from seeing the actual office or any of the employees. There was a note on the partitian that states something like "You're being monitored. Please have a seat. An employee will be with you shortly." Those aren't the exact words, but that's the gist of it. After about a minute, a woman (during the proceedings, I learned her name is Wendi) came into the lobby to greet me and ask why I was there. I could tell from talking to her that she's an honest person and was sincerely trying to help. Thus, I didn't become confrontational as I had planned. I expressed my concern that I had been given the wrong hard drive and explained the situation regarding the brand names and serial numbers not matching. I also told her that I wanted my computer back and stated that, from the outset, I had expected to be given my computer back. Wendi told me that my computer was not there because their technicians don't work on computers at or keep them in the office she works at. She said that she didn't know where my computer was, but that she would find out and have it returned to me. If I had sensed, even for a moment, that she was lying, I would have become confrontational, but I'm very convinced that she wasn't lying. Wendi said that both the technicians who had been involved in my transaction (Harry and Larry) would be unavailable for about a week (Harry is the one in physical possession of my computer and probably my actual hard drive). Wendi cited the reasons that both Larry and Harry were currently unavailable. Regarding Harry, Wendi stated that he was out of town on family business. This made sense because, in a prior conversation with Larry at my residence, Larry happened to mention that Harry was needing to take a lot of time off and go to another part of the country to help keep the business afloat of his brother-in-law who suffered a stroke recently. At any rate, Wendi said that she would resolve my issues and contact me again as soon as Harry was back in town. I'm in a wait-and-see mode, but I might end up pursuing legal action against this computer repair company for fraud (if I'm able to determine that they could have restored my pc by simply repairing the boot sector) and possibly theft if they don't return my computer and hard drive or fairly compensate me for the loss. [Link]
loveporn Member 186 Posts 5/07	Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 9:09AM Hate to say it but your pc is gone. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 10:48PM Pontus Maximus, I wouldn't get confrontational with a receptionist either, unless I thought she was lying. As they say, "Don't kill the messenger." Think hard before pursuing a legal claim based upon a minor property loss. Even if you're successful (which is doubtful, I'm afraid), you'll probably expend much more time and energy than the fight is worth. [Link]

Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 4 2010 : 12:49AM loveporn wrote: Hate to say it but your pc is gone. Click to expand Loveporn, you might turn out to be right, but I'm still hopeful that things might turn out okay once Harry returns. If I can just get my old hard drive back (even if I can't get my computer back), and follow the steps that Hardware outlined above, and retrieve the rest of my data, I'll be content. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 4 2010 : 1:32AM Bob wrote: Think hard before pursuing a legal claim based upon a minor property loss. Even if you're successful (which is doubtful, I'm afraid), you'll probably expend much more time and energy than the fight is worth. Click to expand Bob, you're right, of course. However, my line of thinking is more like this: I'll wait about a week or so and hopefully I'll hear from Wendi. If I don't, I'll call their office and make an inquiry. If that leads nowhere, then I'll send them a letter threatening to take the matter to the police (which I would really do) and allude to the possibility of legal action (even if I have no intention of actually pursuing legal action). But I really hope that I can at least get back my old hard drive with all of the data intact so I can do what Hardware suggested. I don't see why this computer repair company wasn't shut down a long time ago operating the way that they do. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Oct 4 2010 : 11:44AM ^^^ Best of luck, Pontus. I'm rooting for you. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 6 2010 : 1:12AM Thanks, Bob. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Oct 12 2010 : 8:18PM I can now state with absolute certainty that this computer repair company is comprised of essentially con artists masquerading as a computer repair company. They're totally not legitimate. I just finished talking with someone there named Lisa who was obviously trying to con me out of more money. She said the following: "In order for me to get my computer back, that I will have to pay much more money than I have so far (she didn't mention a dollar amount, but implied that it would be hundreds of dollars more)." Lisa claimed that, because they thought they would be able to keep my computer once any repairs or data transfer was made, they charged me a lower rate than they would have had they known in advance that they'd have to return it. She also stated that they "repaired" (wtf!) my computer and that that was another reason that I'd have to pay to get it back. Of course, this is complete b.s. and I told her as much. She was obviously just making shit up in an attempt to extort more money. Lisa also lied about the situation with my old hard drive. When I told her that Larry brought over the wrong hard drive, she lied and said that there were two hard drives in my old computer and that Larry only brought over the "good" one. The fact is that there was only ONE hard drive in my old computer and the one that Larry brought over was not it. Additionally, had there really been two hard drives on my old computer, the Belarc Advisor report would have listed both of them, not just one of them. There's also the fact that the hard drive Larry brought over was marked "BAD." In other words, Lisa's "explanation" did not jibe with the facts. This computer repair company is totally not legitimate. I don't think I could have picked a worse company to fix my computer. Before ending my conversation with Lisa, I told her that I want my computer and hard drive back and that I'm not going to pay additional money to get them back. I also told her that, if necessary, I'm going to get the police involved. Lisa said that she was going to confer with the technicians and get back with me. What I'm going to do next is compose a letter, stating my concerns and demands, and send it to this computer repair company by certified return receipt. Epic fail on my part choosing this computer repair company. [Link]
loveporn Member 186 Posts 5/07	Posted - Oct 13 2010 : 10:55AM Hate to hear this but keep us informed as to what happens. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2940 Posts 1/08	Posted - Oct 13 2010 : 1:19PM You might want to involve the Better Business Bureau too. My local TV station news dept has a consumer advocate reporter (called The Troubleshooter) who investigates stories like this and frequently expose/shame the culprits into making things right with the consumer. They use 60 minutes-style ambush techniques and everything. So...the police isn't your only option. [Link]
loveporn Member 186 Posts 5/07	Posted - Nov 4 2010 : 10:59AM Any word yet? [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 5:17AM ^^ loveporn, so far, the news is not good. I did send them a letter demanding my computer back at no additional charge and gave them a deadline of close of business Wednesday, 3 November 2010, before I involve the police and possibly a lawyer. They didn't respond (no surprise). So, next, I'm going to indeed contact my local police department, explain the situation to them and see what they say. I'm also going to take advantage of a free initial consultation with a lawyer and get some legal advice and I might shell out the bucks (if the price is reasonable) to have the lawyer send the computer repair company a threatening letter. Furthermore, I'm also thinking of taking them to small claims court, since that's action I can initiate and pursue on my own without involving an attorney. In principle, I do like ninja1's idea of attempting to involve a local TV station. In my area, we do in fact have a station with a consumer advocacy show (or segment) called "3 on Your Side" (meaning Channel 3). The only problem is that I'm a little camera shy and don't quite feel comfortable enough to pursue that approach. However, I might be able to get a similar effect if I can involve a local weekly publication that sometimes runs consumer advocacy stories. But, I've also started to look at this situation on a broader scale. This computer repair company has been in operation for many years. If this is their standard approach in dealing with their customers (which is likely), then basically they have been engaging in fraud, extortion, and the trafficking of stolen property (in other words, racketeering). For example, I'm now convinced (based on what Hardware posted previously in this thread) that they could have fixed my computer at my residence and for a reasonable price. However, they misrepresented the situation in order to take my computer to their "repair shop" and also to exaggerate the nature of the computer problem to justify charging me an inflated price (fraud on both counts) knowing all along that they had no intention of ever returning my computer (theft). But if you ask for your computer back (after paying for the repair/service), then, out of the blue, they inform you that you were charged a special "lower rate" for the repair/service based on the premise that they'd get to keep your computer (even though you never agreed to such an arrangement) and they try to get you to pay hundreds of dollars more just to get back your own computer. That's extortion because, for their own financial gain, they're coercing people into a lose-lose situation: either you lose your property or you lose more money just to get your own property back. I did some research on extortion. Contrary to popular opinion, extortion doesn't necessarily involve the threat of violence or physical force. The essence of extortion is using coercion to gain an unfair advantage over someone (could be financial, could be sexual, could be a lot of different things). Now, multiple the above scenario times an untold number of customers over the course of many years. It becomes clear that this computer repair company is (to a certain extent) using their company as a way to defraud people, steal their property, or extort more money from them if they ask for the return of their property. This is racketeering. They're not a legitimate company. Which means that they might have run afoul of R.I.C.O. laws. For the above reasons, even if I'm able to get my computer back, I still might report this computer repair company to the F.B.I. They really need to be either shut down or forced to change their business practices, otherwise, they're just going to keep screwing over people. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14606 Posts 3/02	Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 2:03PM Pontus, if you involve the feds it is likely to take forever. The TV station is where to go if you want a timely resolution. Either that, or get a lawyer, but that will cost more than your computer is worth. Pontus Maximus wrote: For example, I'm now convinced (based on what Hardware posted previously in this thread) that they could have fixed my computer at my residence and for a reasonable price. Click to expand Better to say that they should have been able to, but there's always the chance that the guy who made the house call didn't have the expertise required. Best not to make claims you can't prove. It's enough that the tech failed to give you a receipt for your computer, that the company subsequently failed to return your computer, and that, when you called them on it, they gave you a song and dance about how it would cost a lot more money to do so and, in essence, refused to return your property. That's so obviously shady that the only question is whether or not the TV guy can make good theater out of it. As for being camera shy, if you don't do well on camera they'll keep the footage to a minimum. It is entertainment, after all, and, compared to what a good lawyer would cost you, it's a bargain. [Link]

ninja1 Senior Member 2940 Posts 1/08	Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 3:28PM Hardware wrote: It's enough that the tech failed to give you a receipt for your computer, that the company subsequently failed to return your computer, and that, when you called them on it, they gave you a song and dance about how it would cost a lot more money to do so and, in essence, refused to return your property. Click to expand And don't overlook this: Pontus Maximus wrote: I should also note that Tommy, the office manager, had quoted me a price of $250.00 for diagnostics and data recovery/transfer (in other words, for the complete job), but when Larry later presented me with the bill, the price came to $490.00 without any prior warning or explanation. I subsequently contacted Tommy and negotiated the price down to $370.00, but that was still $120.00 more than I originally agreed to. Click to expand [Link]
Bornyo Deactivated Member 803 Posts 12/04	Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 10:43PM Public humiliation is definitely the way to go. Call the news channel. It will get much quicker results than using the laws designed to protect you. And if there is one single embarrassing image in that cache, all is lost. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 4:02AM Bornyo wrote: And if there is one single embarrassing image in that cache, all is lost. Click to expand Although most of my porn was (is) on external hard drives, unfortunately, my computer in their possession does contain some (adult) hardcore porn (but I have copies of all of those files on my external hard drives, so I don't need my computer back for the porn). I admit that the presence of hardcore porn on my old computer does, indeed, cause me some degree of apprehensiveness in pursuing the case (plus the fear that they might, themselves, put some illegal porn on my machine to set me up for a fall). However, to the very best of my knowledge, there are no nude images or embarrassing pictures of me or anyone I know on that computer, just professional porn performers over the age of 18. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 4:56AM Hardware wrote: Pontus, if you involve the feds it is likely to take forever. Click to expand Hardware, I wasn't just planning to use one approach, but rather a multi-pronged approach in dealing with this company. However, the idea of involving the F.B.I. had to do more with protecting consumers in my local area long-term against an unscrupulous company, and not as leverage to get my own machine back. Even then, I think I'd feel more comfortable already having my computer back before contacting the F.B.I. in the interest of protecting other consumers from future harm. The TV station is where to go if you want a timely resolution. Either that, or get a lawyer, but that will cost more than your computer is worth. Click to expand Some of the data on the machine is worth much more to me than the dollar value of the computer itself. The biggest loss to me was my FireFox bookmarks. I had been using that browser as my primary browser for many years and had accumulated a lot of great bookmarks (most porn-related) that I just hate to lose forever. Ironically, they were able to recover all of my IE favorites (bookmarks) from the browser I didn't use nearly as much. Another huge loss was years worth of email. But beyond all of that, I just hate the idea that some asshole company is going to be unscrupulous enough to (essentially) steal my computer, especially when, in retrospect, I realize that that was their intention all along. Better to say that they should have been able to, but there's always the chance that the guy who made the house call didn't have the expertise required. Best not to make claims you can't prove. Click to expand Hardware, trust me as someone who dealt with the technician (Harry) personally (along with other members of his company), he knew exactly what he was doing. He, in concert with other members of his company, basically ran a scam on me (even though they did give me back some of the data from my old computer). Harry never had any intention of fixing my computer at my residence. The reason is obvious in retrospect: all along they never intended to return my computer. I think this is their standard operating procedure. This company really does need to be investigated by local authorities to find out to what extent this has been happening and to determine if they are (as I suspect) running a racket under the guise of offering computer repair service. It's enough that the tech failed to give you a receipt for your computer, that the company subsequently failed to return your computer, and that, when you called them on it, they gave you a song and dance about how it would cost a lot more money to do so and, in essence, refused to return your property. That's so obviously shady that the only question is whether or not the TV guy can make good theater out of it. As for being camera shy, if you don't do well on camera they'll keep the footage to a minimum. It is entertainment, after all, and, compared to what a good lawyer would cost you, it's a bargain. Click to expand Hardware, I will certainly give all of that due consideration if I decide to contact "3 on Your Side." [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14606 Posts 3/02	Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 5:01AM Good luck; I hope you're successful. [Link]
Bornyo Deactivated Member 803 Posts 12/04	Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 9:54AM now that I think about it- they could say your computer had felching 12 yr olds fucking donkeys on it, and it wouldn't matter because the stuff has been in their possession. They couldn't really prove anything on the computer was yours, and not planted. So, no worries there, mate. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 2:27AM Pontus Maximus wrote: Some of the data on the machine is worth much more to me than the dollar value of the computer itself. The biggest loss to me was my FireFox bookmarks. . . . Another huge loss was years worth of email. Click to expand You can save yourself heartache in the future by committing to a regular back-up schedule for your e-mail, bookmarks, and important files. I back up my Outlook and document files on a daily basis, both to a separate internal hard drive and to an external hard drive. This takes me less than 5 mintues a day. Periodically, I back up those same files to a DVD. You can put together an external hard drive very cheaply -- easily for less than $100 -- by choosing an internal hard drive you like and mounting it in an external enclosure. Newegg.com is your friend. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 12:27PM Bob wrote: You can put together an external hard drive very cheaply -- easily for less than $100 -- by choosing an internal hard drive you like and mounting it in an external enclosure. Newegg.com is your friend. Click to expand Hell, even very large external hard drives from major manufacturers are available for close to $100 (or less when they are on sale) Seagate Expansion 2TB USB 2.0 External Hard Drive - $109.99 Western Digital Elements 2TB USB 2.0 Desktop External Hard Drive - $119.99 [Link]
Robert Member My past is a foreign country. Most things are different there, including word usage. 503 Posts 12/06	Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 2:58PM I have had great price/performance from LaCie refurbished external hard drives. I own five (5) and the oldest is over five years old. Going strong. All were purchased for under $90. LaCie ==>http://www.lacie.com/products/clearance/products/?id=10007 [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 5:08PM Bill wrote: Hell, even very large external hard drives from major manufacturers are available for close to $100 (or less when they are on sale) Click to expand True. I'm just partial to building my own. What I like is that I can choose exactly the hard drives and interfaces that I want. Plus, if the drive goes wonky, I can just replace the drive; if the enclosure goes wonky, I can just replace the enclosure. And the warranty periods for internal drives are usually longer than those for external drives. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 5:10PM Robert wrote: I have had great price/performance from LaCie refurbished external hard drives. Click to expand T The thing with LaCie is that they don't actually make their own drives, just the enclosures. Their enclosures are very spiffy, though. [Link]

Author

Post

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 12:07AM

Recently, I couldn't get my operating system to start on my old computer and arranged to have it repaired by a local computer repair company.
One of their technicians, Harry, stopped by my residence with the intention of fixing the problem on site. However, after doing some diagnostics, he said that my computer would need to be taken to their computer repair shop for more advanced diagnostics than what he could provide at my residence. I let Harry take my computer to their repair shop.
This computer repair company subsequently informed me that my hard drive had failed but that they would be able to recover and transfer the data from it to another computer. I had been planning to buy a new computer for quite sometime, but kept procrastining since my (then) current computer was still working okay (until the operating system failed to start). So, I bought a new computer with the intention of having the computer repair company recover and transfer the data from my old computer onto my new one.
During these proceedings, I made it clear to the computer repair company (including Harry and one of their office managers named Tommy) that I wanted my old computer returned to me after the data transfer. They agreed that this would be done.
When another of their technicians (Larry) arrived at my residence to do the data transfer to my new computer, he did not bring my old computer (he said no one had instructed him to). However, because Harry had previously backed up the data from my old computer onto one of their own external hard drives, Larry was still able to transfer my data from their external hard drive onto my new computer. I didn't get back all of my data, but I got back most of it.
I subsequently made an arrangement with Tommy (office manager) for one of their technicians to bring back my old computer. However, when this techinician (Larry again) arrived, he only showed up with the actual hard drive itself, but not the hard drive along with the case or tower that it was encased in. Larry claimed that that was the deal, but whether I had used the words "please bring back my computer" or "please bring back my hard drive," I'm pretty sure they knew what I meant. Furthermore, even though it has my name taped to it, I'm not even 100% sure that the hard drive that Larry brought back is actually the one that was in my old computer. I didn't realize this until Larry left. On his last visit, he had given me something called a Belarc Advisor report that provided an extremely detailed listing of all of the hardware and software that was on my old computer. I see nothing on the hard drive he brought me that matches up with anything on the Belarc Advisor report (even the brand names don't match up).
The reason that I want my old computer back has to do with security issues (there's some hardcore porn--nothing illegal--on my old computer, years worth of FireFox bookmarks that I wasn't able to get back after the data transfer, years worth of email that I also wasn't able to get back with the data transfer, possibly a word processing document listing my user names/passwords for various websites, plus many other private/sensitive documents). Along those same lines, another reason that I want my old computer back is because at some point in the future, I might decide to have a data recovery company attempt to get back some of the data off my old computer that the repair company wasn't able to get.
I've already paid them in full for their services and so I can't withhold payment in order to get them to return my old computer. I never told them that they could keep my property (in fact, I said the exact opposite, that I wanted them to bring it back, and made that clear all along--or so I had thought). Again, even if I used the phrase "please bring back my hard drive," I'm pretty sure that, in the context of our conversations, they knew exactly what I meant (meaning, bring back my old computer). I plan to call them tomorrow in an effort to get my old computer back, but I am anticipating that they are going to refuse to cooperate and offer up one excuse or another (for example, they might claim that they no longer have my old computer or that all of the data on it has now been erased). If they make such a claim, and if it's not true, how could I prove it? Plus, even if it weren't true when they made the claim, they could subsequently make it true by physically getting rid of the computer or erasing the data on it.
Here's where I need advice. If I do call them back tomorrow as planned and they refuse to cooperate (as I'm expecting), should I threaten them with going to the police and reporting my old computer as stolen (by them) since I never authorized them to keep it? Or if they don't cooperate, would it be better to seemingly accept whatever they say, not become upset, not mention anything about going to the police, but then subsequently file a stolen property report with the police (and explain the situation in detail regarding my dealings with this computer repair company)? Or should I not call them at all (so as not to tip my hand, but instead go straight to the police, explain the situation to them, and let them investigate the matter--I would love for the police to show up at their place of business unexpectedly to them and with a search warrant)? Or should I just accept the complete loss of my old computer, along with everything that's still on the hard drive, and move on?
I'm thinking that I might need to get the police involved, but I'm a little worried in this sense. Years ago, I remember reading an online article about how some pedophiles have found ways to hack into other people's computers and store child porn in inconspicuous places on their computers (well hidden from the people who's computers have been hacked). I think the chances of this happening are extremely slim, but it has happened to people. If it does happen, legally, it would be almost impossible to prove that you didn't place the child porn there yourself (meaning, you might end up going to prison and becoming a registered sex offender for life for someone else's crime). I'm not very worried about something like this happening (because, like I stated, the odds are very slim), but what if I'm mistaken and I AM a victim of this and find out after I get the police involved in my case against the computer repair company?
At any rate, I started off trusting this computer repair company, but now I don't trust them at all. I now regret that I let them take my old computer from my place of residence. But as they say, hindsight is 20/20.
Should I just let it go or pursue a case against the computer repair company?

[Link]

Harri Patel
Senior Member

#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele
5110 Posts
3/03

Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 5:05AM

Sounds to me like you told them "I want my old hard drive back," and they gave you your old hard drive back. If you want the whole system back, just call them up and tell them. I see no reason to think they would have gone through the ridiculous charade of sending the guy back out to hand you a hard drive that wasn't really yours, and no reason to involve the police in this in any way.

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 5:49AM

Harri, thanks for the reply.
Did you read this part:

On the report, it stated that my old hard drive is a Samsung SP2004c, 200.05 GB, hard drive. The one Larry gave me is a Maxtor 250 GB hard drive. Also, the serial number on the Belarc Advisor for my old hard drive doesn't match the serial number on the hard drive Larry gave me. I'm no techie, so maybe I'm confused. However, the Belarc Advisor is very accurate regarding all of the other information it listed.
Harri, don't people commonly refer to their computer (here, I mean the tower or enclosure itself along with its contents) as their hard drive? In my conversations with them, I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant. Why couldn't they just automatically return what I gave them without my having to be so precise in my language?
Harri, you might be right in that if I call them, there won't be a problem. However, I sense that there might be, which is why I'm seeking advice.
I should also note that Tommy, the office manager, had quoted me a price of $250.00 for diagnostics and data recovery/transfer (in other words, for the complete job), but when Larry later presented me with the bill, the price came to $490.00 without any prior warning or explanation. I subsequently contacted Tommy and negotiated the price down to $370.00, but that was still $120.00 more than I originally agreed to.

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 8:20AM

Here's one possible motive. What if the hard drive didn't really fail but they just lied in order to end up charging me more money? As it turned out, they charged me $120.00 for Harry's initial diagnosis at my place of residence, charged me another $120.00 supposedly for a subsequent diagnosis at their facilities, and then charged me $250.00 for the recovery/data transfer (despite the fact that, initially, Tommy told me that the whole project would cost only $250.00).
If they had been lying all along, then of course, the last thing they would do is return my old hard drive (once again, the brand names and serial numbers don't match).

[Link]

loveporn
Member

186 Posts
5/07

Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 1:02PM

my advice is to use google to search for any repairs you need to do to your computer and do it yourself. you will find many detailed instructions on any repairs you need to do for a tenth of the price.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14606 Posts
3/02

Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 1:05PM

It sounds like you're talking about a hard disk failure, which is not the same thing as a computer failure. A computer may fail because the fan stops working, allowing the CPU to overheat (essentially, allowing it to melt), or because the power supply stops working, or because some other component fails.
If the repair company took your entire computer then they should have returned your entire computer. If they only took the drive out of your computer then they should have returned the drive.
However, there are different types of drive failures, and it may be that the type your drive experienced required the company to physically dismantle the drive in order to extract the ceramic disc that actually has the data written on it. If that was the case then I can understand why they wouldn't think to return the pieces to you - they are completely worthless.
What I don't understand is why you weren't told exactly what was done to recover your data. However, the amount of money they charged you is much less than I would expect had they been forced to physically remove the platter, so I'm guessing that you're just dealing with a small company that isn't very well managed. That doesn't mean they aren't technically proficient, it just means that whatever the guy who dealt with you said didn't get communicated to the guy who actually did the work. Odds are that your drive was out the door in the trash bin before you called to demand its return.
Regardless, I advise against pursuing a case against the company, it would just be throwing good money after bad.

[Link]

Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 2:00AM

You're going to get your best practical result by making a physical appearance at the repair company and personally demanding that they immediately hand over your property. If they say no, pull out your cell phone right there, call the local police at a non-emergency number (i.e, not 911), tell the switchboard person who and where you are, and say that you'd like to report a criminal fraud. That call won't lead anywhere with the police, but it may make the people at the company more responsive.

[Link]

Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 2:05AM

If you didn't pay them in cash, you may have recourse. If you wrote them a check and it hasn't cleared yet, you can call your bank and ask them to stop payment. If you gave them a credit card, you can report the situation to the Cardmember Claims Department and attempt to decline payment.

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 3:37AM

@ Bob: I'm seriously considering your idea of actually showing up there and demanding my property. I think it's pretty presumptious of them to just keep a customer's property without any authorization from that customer whatsoever. Even if they're not lying and the hard drive did fail, I could still replace the hard drive with another one and keep my old computer as a back-up computer. That computer does still have value and I did pay for it. Why should they get to keep it without my permission? The more I think about it, the more sure I am that they should have just automatically returned it without my having to ask for it in the first place.
And while I'm there, I intend to bring the Belarc Advisor report along with the hard drive they gave me and point out to them why I'm concerned that the hard drive they gave me might not be the one that came from my computer (certainly ,the brand names and serial numbers don't match).
I really appreciate your advice, Bob. Thank you.

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 4:06AM

Agreed. They did, in fact, take my entire computer, but only returned the hard drive.

As I mentioned above, Larry (one of their technicians) did bring back a hard drive (though I suspect that it isn't the one that was in my old computer for the reasons I cited above). I spoke with Tommy (office manager) about the possibility of at some point in the future my taking that hard drive to a company that specializes in data recovery (in order to retrieve data from that drive that his company wasn't able to get). Tommy did expresss the opinion that that's a good idea and that I could, in fact, do that (which implies that my hard drive was not destroyed). Then, too, the hard drive that Larry gave me was physically intact and (according to them) was pulled from my old computer.

Hardware, I think they did mention it, but frankly, technical jargon tends to go over my head. The gist of it, though, is that in order to extract the data from my old hard drive they required some type of machinery or tools (or whatever) that was/were located there in their shop (which is why [supposedly] Harry, the first technician who came to my residence, wasn't able to do the work himself on site). Whether Harry was being truthful or not, I simply don't know because I lack technical finesse.

I think I'm going to follow Bob's advice. I don't plan on spending any more money (except the cost of gasoline to drive over to their shop).

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 4:07AM

That's great advice, loveporn. Thanks.

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 4:11AM

Oh, I just wanted to add that NONE of my porn was lost when the old hard drive failed. ALL of that was backed up to multiple external hard drives.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 12:56PM

Like Hardware said, it's kind of weird that they told you it was a hard drive failure and then claimed they were able to save a bunch of your data. I'm not real knowledgeable about that but I was under the impression that this is not something that's easy to do. IOW, they would have to send it somewhere that specializes in recovering data from dead hard drives and it would therefore be expensive. I just can't imagine a small computer repair shop taking a hard drive apart there in the shop for data recovery.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14606 Posts
3/02

Posted - Sep 30 2010 : 5:32PM

^ Assuming the hard drive did not physically fail but simply had a bad boot sector, the drive itself might work fine, but the operating system would not load. Obviously, this is a failure in terms of letting you get work done, but it is not necessarily a failure which requires that the drive be replaced.
However, it would be prudent to run diagnostics on the drive to determine how many other sectors were bad. If a good portion of the drive is unreadable then it is better to just scrap it.
Either way, there's no excuse for a shop not returning your property to you.
When I suggested that Pontus Maximus not pursue the matter I was thinking the shop had his drive, not his entire computer.

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 3:13AM

@ RandomPrecision: Initially, once they had my computer at their shop, they told me that they would be able to recover ALL of my data (they went out of their way to reassure me of this). They said absolutely none of my data was loss. However, once Larry showed up to do the data transfer, then it became apparent that not all of my data was recovered (hence, they breached their initial promise). When I spoke to Tommy, the office manager, he told me that, in order to get the remaining data, that I would have to go to a company that specializes in that and that prices would start at $800+ and could climb well into the thousands of dollars.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that I happened to pick a bad repair company.

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 3:32AM

Hardware, come to think of it, in a subsequent telephone conversation, Harry (the first technician who came to my residence) did, in fact, state that a computer virus had destroyed the boot sector. He told me the name of the virus, but I no longer remember the name of it.

Understood. I plan on stopping by that repair shop on Friday (1 October 2010), around noon. I sure hope I can get my old computer back, along with my actual hard drive (I'm pretty sure the one Larry gave me is not mine).

[Link]

Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 8:20AM

Hardware, before I called a computer repair company, I could have restored my pc myself (without launching the operating system). The only problem was, just before I was about to do it, there was a warning on the screen that doing so would wipe out all of the data put on the machine since it came from the factory. That was unacceptable, and so I called a computer repair company instead.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14606 Posts
3/02

Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 2:55PM

I'm pretty sure the drive you got back isn't your, either.
From the message you describe, it sounds like you were about to reinstall the operating system, which would have overwritten the file system. That would have made your files much harder to get at.
You know, it puzzles me why "Harry" didn't just restore the boot sector. There are utilities you can use to do that. Maybe he tried and it didn't work, but if that were the case I think it would have been worth mentioning the fact to you. Maybe he's gotten used to people's eyes glazing over when he goes into technical detail so he no longer even tries.
At any rate, unless you have such a utility (and are prepared to mess about with it), the best way to recover your data is as follows:
a) take out the old drive
b) install a new drive and load Windows on it.
c) put the old drive back in as a secondary drive.
Windows should see the secondary drive and be able to read the file system.

[Link]

ninja1
Senior Member

2940 Posts
1/08

Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 4:50PM

Or maybe "Harry" is an opportunist who knows he can charge more for a "data recovery/backup/transfer" job than for a "fix the boot sector" job.

(Well it needed to be said)

[Link]

Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Oct 1 2010 : 11:22PM

You're welcome. I hope you get a good result. I'm a big believer in the benefits of non-violent, reasonable confrontation.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 11:27PM

Hardware, Harry is his real name. All of the names I've used regarding the people at the computer repair company are their real names. As I speculated in a previous post in this thread, and as ninja1 subsequently speculated, I suspect that they've been lying in order to make more money off me. I can't prove this, however, and I might be wrong, but I doubt it. This speculation is based on Larry giving me the wrong hard drive (which would prevent me from discovering that all of my data was there all along and didn't need to be "recovered"). Larry giving me the wrong hard drive might have been due to an honest mistake on their part, but I doubt it because, like me, they have access to the hard drive serial numbers and brand names. Also, they should have brought back my computer without my even having to ask them for it. Lastly, the final price that they told me I'd have to pay was double the initial price quoted.
The simple fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people are, like me, not technically savvy with computers. I think companies such as the one I've been dealing with have learned to unfairly exploit this situation to their financial advantage and make it a regular part of how they do business.

Great information, Hardware. Thanks. I wish I had known that all along. I'll NEVER trust another computer repair company.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 2 2010 : 11:36PM

Ninja1, I hear ya. I basically expressed the same sentiment in the fourth post of this thread.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 12:17AM

Bob, I did stop by there on Friday as planned. Here's what happened.
It appeared to be a small office. When you first walk in, you're in a lobby with a large partitian preventing you from seeing the actual office or any of the employees. There was a note on the partitian that states something like "You're being monitored. Please have a seat. An employee will be with you shortly." Those aren't the exact words, but that's the gist of it.
After about a minute, a woman (during the proceedings, I learned her name is Wendi) came into the lobby to greet me and ask why I was there. I could tell from talking to her that she's an honest person and was sincerely trying to help. Thus, I didn't become confrontational as I had planned.
I expressed my concern that I had been given the wrong hard drive and explained the situation regarding the brand names and serial numbers not matching. I also told her that I wanted my computer back and stated that, from the outset, I had expected to be given my computer back.
Wendi told me that my computer was not there because their technicians don't work on computers at or keep them in the office she works at. She said that she didn't know where my computer was, but that she would find out and have it returned to me. If I had sensed, even for a moment, that she was lying, I would have become confrontational, but I'm very convinced that she wasn't lying.
Wendi said that both the technicians who had been involved in my transaction (Harry and Larry) would be unavailable for about a week (Harry is the one in physical possession of my computer and probably my actual hard drive). Wendi cited the reasons that both Larry and Harry were currently unavailable. Regarding Harry, Wendi stated that he was out of town on family business. This made sense because, in a prior conversation with Larry at my residence, Larry happened to mention that Harry was needing to take a lot of time off and go to another part of the country to help keep the business afloat of his brother-in-law who suffered a stroke recently.
At any rate, Wendi said that she would resolve my issues and contact me again as soon as Harry was back in town.
I'm in a wait-and-see mode, but I might end up pursuing legal action against this computer repair company for fraud (if I'm able to determine that they could have restored my pc by simply repairing the boot sector) and possibly theft if they don't return my computer and hard drive or fairly compensate me for the loss.

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loveporn
Member

186 Posts
5/07

Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 9:09AM

Hate to say it but your pc is gone.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Oct 3 2010 : 10:48PM

Pontus Maximus,
I wouldn't get confrontational with a receptionist either, unless I thought she was lying. As they say, "Don't kill the messenger."
Think hard before pursuing a legal claim based upon a minor property loss. Even if you're successful (which is doubtful, I'm afraid), you'll probably expend much more time and energy than the fight is worth.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 4 2010 : 12:49AM

Loveporn, you might turn out to be right, but I'm still hopeful that things might turn out okay once Harry returns. If I can just get my old hard drive back (even if I can't get my computer back), and follow the steps that Hardware outlined above, and retrieve the rest of my data, I'll be content.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 4 2010 : 1:32AM

Bob, you're right, of course. However, my line of thinking is more like this: I'll wait about a week or so and hopefully I'll hear from Wendi. If I don't, I'll call their office and make an inquiry. If that leads nowhere, then I'll send them a letter threatening to take the matter to the police (which I would really do) and allude to the possibility of legal action (even if I have no intention of actually pursuing legal action). But I really hope that I can at least get back my old hard drive with all of the data intact so I can do what Hardware suggested.
I don't see why this computer repair company wasn't shut down a long time ago operating the way that they do.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Oct 4 2010 : 11:44AM

^^^
Best of luck, Pontus. I'm rooting for you.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 6 2010 : 1:12AM

Thanks, Bob.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Oct 12 2010 : 8:18PM

I can now state with absolute certainty that this computer repair company is comprised of essentially con artists masquerading as a computer repair company. They're totally not legitimate.
I just finished talking with someone there named Lisa who was obviously trying to con me out of more money. She said the following:
"In order for me to get my computer back, that I will have to pay much more money than I have so far (she didn't mention a dollar amount, but implied that it would be hundreds of dollars more)."
Lisa claimed that, because they thought they would be able to keep my computer once any repairs or data transfer was made, they charged me a lower rate than they would have had they known in advance that they'd have to return it. She also stated that they "repaired" (wtf!) my computer and that that was another reason that I'd have to pay to get it back. Of course, this is complete b.s. and I told her as much. She was obviously just making shit up in an attempt to extort more money.
Lisa also lied about the situation with my old hard drive. When I told her that Larry brought over the wrong hard drive, she lied and said that there were two hard drives in my old computer and that Larry only brought over the "good" one. The fact is that there was only ONE hard drive in my old computer and the one that Larry brought over was not it. Additionally, had there really been two hard drives on my old computer, the Belarc Advisor report would have listed both of them, not just one of them. There's also the fact that the hard drive Larry brought over was marked "BAD." In other words, Lisa's "explanation" did not jibe with the facts.
This computer repair company is totally not legitimate. I don't think I could have picked a worse company to fix my computer.
Before ending my conversation with Lisa, I told her that I want my computer and hard drive back and that I'm not going to pay additional money to get them back. I also told her that, if necessary, I'm going to get the police involved. Lisa said that she was going to confer with the technicians and get back with me.
What I'm going to do next is compose a letter, stating my concerns and demands, and send it to this computer repair company by certified return receipt.
Epic fail on my part choosing this computer repair company.

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loveporn
Member

186 Posts
5/07

Posted - Oct 13 2010 : 10:55AM

Hate to hear this but keep us informed as to what happens.

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ninja1
Senior Member

2940 Posts
1/08

Posted - Oct 13 2010 : 1:19PM

You might want to involve the Better Business Bureau too.
My local TV station news dept has a consumer advocate reporter (called The Troubleshooter) who investigates stories like this and frequently expose/shame the culprits into making things right with the consumer. They use 60 minutes-style ambush techniques and everything.
So...the police isn't your only option.

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loveporn
Member

186 Posts
5/07

Posted - Nov 4 2010 : 10:59AM

Any word yet?

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 5:17AM

^^ loveporn, so far, the news is not good.
I did send them a letter demanding my computer back at no additional charge and gave them a deadline of close of business Wednesday, 3 November 2010, before I involve the police and possibly a lawyer.
They didn't respond (no surprise).
So, next, I'm going to indeed contact my local police department, explain the situation to them and see what they say. I'm also going to take advantage of a free initial consultation with a lawyer and get some legal advice and I might shell out the bucks (if the price is reasonable) to have the lawyer send the computer repair company a threatening letter.
Furthermore, I'm also thinking of taking them to small claims court, since that's action I can initiate and pursue on my own without involving an attorney.
In principle, I do like ninja1's idea of attempting to involve a local TV station. In my area, we do in fact have a station with a consumer advocacy show (or segment) called "3 on Your Side" (meaning Channel 3). The only problem is that I'm a little camera shy and don't quite feel comfortable enough to pursue that approach. However, I might be able to get a similar effect if I can involve a local weekly publication that sometimes runs consumer advocacy stories.
But, I've also started to look at this situation on a broader scale. This computer repair company has been in operation for many years. If this is their standard approach in dealing with their customers (which is likely), then basically they have been engaging in fraud, extortion, and the trafficking of stolen property (in other words, racketeering).
For example, I'm now convinced (based on what Hardware posted previously in this thread) that they could have fixed my computer at my residence and for a reasonable price. However, they misrepresented the situation in order to take my computer to their "repair shop" and also to exaggerate the nature of the computer problem to justify charging me an inflated price (fraud on both counts) knowing all along that they had no intention of ever returning my computer (theft). But if you ask for your computer back (after paying for the repair/service), then, out of the blue, they inform you that you were charged a special "lower rate" for the repair/service based on the premise that they'd get to keep your computer (even though you never agreed to such an arrangement) and they try to get you to pay hundreds of dollars more just to get back your own computer. That's extortion because, for their own financial gain, they're coercing people into a lose-lose situation: either you lose your property or you lose more money just to get your own property back. I did some research on extortion. Contrary to popular opinion, extortion doesn't necessarily involve the threat of violence or physical force. The essence of extortion is using coercion to gain an unfair advantage over someone (could be financial, could be sexual, could be a lot of different things).
Now, multiple the above scenario times an untold number of customers over the course of many years. It becomes clear that this computer repair company is (to a certain extent) using their company as a way to defraud people, steal their property, or extort more money from them if they ask for the return of their property. This is racketeering. They're not a legitimate company. Which means that they might have run afoul of R.I.C.O. laws.
For the above reasons, even if I'm able to get my computer back, I still might report this computer repair company to the F.B.I. They really need to be either shut down or forced to change their business practices, otherwise, they're just going to keep screwing over people.

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14606 Posts
3/02

Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 2:03PM

Pontus, if you involve the feds it is likely to take forever. The TV station is where to go if you want a timely resolution. Either that, or get a lawyer, but that will cost more than your computer is worth.

Better to say that they should have been able to, but there's always the chance that the guy who made the house call didn't have the expertise required. Best not to make claims you can't prove.
It's enough that the tech failed to give you a receipt for your computer, that the company subsequently failed to return your computer, and that, when you called them on it, they gave you a song and dance about how it would cost a lot more money to do so and, in essence, refused to return your property.
That's so obviously shady that the only question is whether or not the TV guy can make good theater out of it.
As for being camera shy, if you don't do well on camera they'll keep the footage to a minimum. It is entertainment, after all, and, compared to what a good lawyer would cost you, it's a bargain.

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ninja1
Senior Member

2940 Posts
1/08

Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 3:28PM

And don't overlook this:

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Bornyo
Deactivated Member

803 Posts
12/04

Posted - Nov 5 2010 : 10:43PM

Public humiliation is definitely the way to go. Call the news channel. It will get much quicker results than using the laws designed to protect you. And if there is one single embarrassing image in that cache, all is lost.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 4:02AM

Although most of my porn was (is) on external hard drives, unfortunately, my computer in their possession does contain some (adult) hardcore porn (but I have copies of all of those files on my external hard drives, so I don't need my computer back for the porn). I admit that the presence of hardcore porn on my old computer does, indeed, cause me some degree of apprehensiveness in pursuing the case (plus the fear that they might, themselves, put some illegal porn on my machine to set me up for a fall). However, to the very best of my knowledge, there are no nude images or embarrassing pictures of me or anyone I know on that computer, just professional porn performers over the age of 18.

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Pontus Maximus
Senior Member

Man of Steel, meet your match.
1346 Posts
9/02

Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 4:56AM

Hardware, I wasn't just planning to use one approach, but rather a multi-pronged approach in dealing with this company. However, the idea of involving the F.B.I. had to do more with protecting consumers in my local area long-term against an unscrupulous company, and not as leverage to get my own machine back. Even then, I think I'd feel more comfortable already having my computer back before contacting the F.B.I. in the interest of protecting other consumers from future harm.

Some of the data on the machine is worth much more to me than the dollar value of the computer itself. The biggest loss to me was my FireFox bookmarks. I had been using that browser as my primary browser for many years and had accumulated a lot of great bookmarks (most porn-related) that I just hate to lose forever. Ironically, they were able to recover all of my IE favorites (bookmarks) from the browser I didn't use nearly as much. Another huge loss was years worth of email. But beyond all of that, I just hate the idea that some asshole company is going to be unscrupulous enough to (essentially) steal my computer, especially when, in retrospect, I realize that that was their intention all along.

Hardware, trust me as someone who dealt with the technician (Harry) personally (along with other members of his company), he knew exactly what he was doing. He, in concert with other members of his company, basically ran a scam on me (even though they did give me back some of the data from my old computer). Harry never had any intention of fixing my computer at my residence. The reason is obvious in retrospect: all along they never intended to return my computer. I think this is their standard operating procedure. This company really does need to be investigated by local authorities to find out to what extent this has been happening and to determine if they are (as I suspect) running a racket under the guise of offering computer repair service.

Hardware, I will certainly give all of that due consideration if I decide to contact "3 on Your Side."

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14606 Posts
3/02

Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 5:01AM

Good luck; I hope you're successful.

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Bornyo
Deactivated Member

803 Posts
12/04

Posted - Nov 6 2010 : 9:54AM

now that I think about it- they could say your computer had felching 12 yr olds fucking donkeys on it, and it wouldn't matter because the stuff has been in their possession. They couldn't really prove anything on the computer was yours, and not planted. So, no worries there, mate.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 2:27AM

You can save yourself heartache in the future by committing to a regular back-up schedule for your e-mail, bookmarks, and important files.
I back up my Outlook and document files on a daily basis, both to a separate internal hard drive and to an external hard drive. This takes me less than 5 mintues a day. Periodically, I back up those same files to a DVD.
You can put together an external hard drive very cheaply -- easily for less than $100 -- by choosing an internal hard drive you like and mounting it in an external enclosure. Newegg.com is your friend.

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Bill

All-Star Member

5334 Posts
6/00

Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 12:27PM

Hell, even very large external hard drives from major manufacturers are available for close to $100 (or less when they are on sale)
Seagate Expansion 2TB USB 2.0 External Hard Drive - $109.99
Western Digital Elements 2TB USB 2.0 Desktop External Hard Drive - $119.99

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Robert
Member

My past is a foreign country. Most things are different there, including word usage.
503 Posts
12/06

Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 2:58PM

I have had great price/performance from LaCie refurbished external hard drives.
I own five (5) and the oldest is over five years old. Going strong. All were purchased for under $90.
LaCie ==>http://www.lacie.com/products/clearance/products/?id=10007

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 5:08PM

True. I'm just partial to building my own.
What I like is that I can choose exactly the hard drives and interfaces that I want. Plus, if the drive goes wonky, I can just replace the drive; if the enclosure goes wonky, I can just replace the enclosure. And the warranty periods for internal drives are usually longer than those for external drives.

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Bob

All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03

Posted - Nov 7 2010 : 5:10PM

T
The thing with LaCie is that they don't actually make their own drives, just the enclosures. Their enclosures are very spiffy, though.

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