I am sort of in the same boat as you,although I am older.I don't know what kind of person you are,but as for the "asshole"you mentioned-I find asshole guys get babes because they have or can fake confidence.And confidence is something women like,not some dude walking down the street with his head down.I am like you,sometimes when I hear guys talk matter of factly about how much poon they get(and this isn't bragging so much,simple fact-some people do get alot of poon!)or people I know who seem to have a new girl every week-I think "What is your fucking secret!"I grew up with a guy like this,he always had a girlfriend(not that that is a good thing always......)or was banging some chick.And to be truthful,he wasn't good looking or very brite,but still...

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1. bitterness
2. referring to woman as bitches or whores
3. lack of self confidence

You want a nice girl? You're obviously looking in all the wrong places. What are you doing going to the bars, then complaining there's no "nice girls" available? Join a church, use up your free time by providing free community services and meet new people, take some extra schooling in the evenings, etc.

There's lots of things you can do to meet new, nice, interesting people of the opposite sex. My suggestion, look for self-improvement and a ton of extra curricular activities and things will fall into place. It sounds cheesy, but it works. You'll lose your bitterness, you'll gain confidence, and everything else will fall into place.

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shark21... don't worry about it. It's not worth the trouble.
just join groups that do stuff you luck and hopefully you'll meet someone.

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Hey Man,

Don't worry about it! You're still young and there's about 3 billion women on the planet.

The previous poster was right - get out and build up an active social life. Forget bars and clubs, at least as a place to score with women! In that respect, for the most part they're such "artificial" places - cattle markets with people just out to put on a show and engage in tiresome "mating rituals". Okay, if you're a night-club predator with a killer line in chat, you MIGHT go out one night and score briefly with some Britney Spears lookalike or a 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer' clone, but is that all you want from life? Besides, from your post you're clearly not that kind of dude.

In my experience, if you go out actively "looking for it", chances are you'll be disappointed. Good things are much more likely to happen when you least expect it. At least that's always been the way it was for me. I met my (gorgeous-looking, by the way) wife quite by chance through her sister who was a work colleague - and the last thing I had on my mind when I went to the office that day was scoring with a hot babe! But there she was hanging around waiting to see her sister, we got talking and the rest - as they say - is history! And before her I had a number of real nice girlfriends over the years (by which I don't just mean good-looking, I mean nice on the inside too), ALL of whom I met by complete chance and when I wasn't particularly "looking for it" - one was working behind the counter in a store I happened to be in, one I helped mend a flat tire (hackneyed but true!!), one was a 'friend of a friend' and another I quite by chance ended up sitting next to to listen to a guest speaker when I was at college.

The point I'm trying to make is that love / romance / passion / hot sex (or any combination of the above) could be just around the corner. And that sooner or later you WILL find someone! And when you do, remember that the most important thing is just BE YOURSELF!! Okay, if "being yourself" includes picking your nose, farting freely in the living room and not brushing your teeth, you could maybe make one or two minor adjustments !! But basically just be yourself. And if you find that the only way you can keep a particular girl is by bullshitting and pretending to be something or someone that you're not, then she's not worth your time and trouble in the first place. So move on!

There's a whole world of hot floras out there, many of them with good hearts too - and not just in bars and discos!

Good luck!!

floraman

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Ya know man, I just got done with 4 years of college and I think I should tell you a few things I already know. First off, you don't have any complex whatsoever. The only thing you are guilty of is being a human being. Secondly, and I'm not saying this in a patronizing sort of way, but you sound EXACTLY like me when I first started college. I was 18-19, started goin out to the bars/clubs, and I couldn't figure out why I could only hook up with women once and a while, and yet my friends were bringing home 2, 3, even 4 different girls per week. I know it's frustrating when you see that kind of shit happen, but if you look at the big picture it will make more sense to you.

And also, the things floraman and DreamWeaver said were 100% right. Bars and clubs really serve only one purpose, and it's not to find girlfriend/boyfriend material. Dude, if you want to know why certain guys get a lot of women at clubs, here's why: women who want to hook up go to clubs. They look for a guy who's "easy", and who's basically looking to hook up, just like them. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that looks really aren't all that big of a deal, but if a woman has to choose between the guy who is smiling, having a good time, and most importantly who is talking to them, and the guy who is quiet, minding his own business and doing his own thing, 99% of women are taking guy #1.

But finally, you're right about one thing. You should be enjoying yourself more. There's two types of confidence:internal and external. The external confidence is what women see when they look at you, the internal is what you see when you look in the mirror. Although they're both important, you can't show off a confident attitude around other people until you feel good about yourself.

Finally, a quick tip that served me well in my second year at school. If you take classes, try and meet as many women as possible in them. Ask them what they are doing on a Friday/Saturday night. If they say they are staying in to watch a movie or do laundry, you should get to know those women better. Most likely, they feel the same way about the bar/club scene as you do, and they're looking for a guy to hang out with.

Good luck my friend!

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The Philosopher

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Just do your thing and when you're not looking she'll be there. Honestly, there is nooo rush.

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Two days ago I turned 33. Today an ex-girlfriend from four years ago told me she's pregnant to a guy she went out with for eight months, doesn't like very much, and has broken up with. She's miserable.

Without any doubt, she was/is the "All Time Love Of My Life", so I'd have to say that right now, tonight, I'm pretty miserable, too!

Going back over the previous posts I'd say that I'm not bitter, don't actually think of women as whores/bitches, and I have more confidence/charm that most average guys.

I'm also unbearably lonely and I can't meet anyone.

Let me expand on that.

I 'meet' loads of women, not in bars/clubs or that scene but through friends/work/hobbies/etc. And I am confident and I can talk to women, and [most important of all] I can make them laugh. And I do take an interest in people, so I like to listen.

But I rarely meet anyone I could fall in love with.

When I do meet someone I want to be with, it tends to go badly for one of four reasons:
1] They are not interested. Which sucks, but is definately the easiest to take. Bam! Instant rejection. Move on.
2] They are involved already, and are a no-go area. Can be difficult to deal with, depending on whether I cross paths with them often. Occasionally, such as for a few weeks this Summer, despite the "Other Man" existing - things still happen and I wind up with someone who's already got a boyfriend. This sucks like you would not believe. On the few, few occasions, I've done this I've regretted it immediately and ended it. Almost immediately.
3] After getting together, I realise it's just a mistake and we are not really gonna work, and I've ended it. This sucks more, because you are dealing with somebody else's feelings and you are putting yourself first, over them, yet trying to salvage a friendship from the wreckage. Difficult because unlike [2] there is probably not one reason I can hang it all on. Just waffle on and on about how I'm not happy, or still lonely, or whatever. Which is basically saying "you have failed, go away". This is beyond sucks. It's painful.
4] Despite the fact that we are both happy with one another, something else happens and it has to end. The lady I mentioned above, was only my girlfriend for six weeks, before leaving to work in another country. The experience ripped my heart out in ways that surprised even me, who'd been heart-broken in exactly the same way twice before. I just crumbled under the pain of losing her, and this "potential" I saw in us. A potential she, at 18, didn't appreciate.

My dating history consists of lots of short-lived romances, all ending for the reasons cited above. Lots of short-lived romances, and lots of "dry-spells" in between.

This past Summer has been eventful. First there was an older lady (friend of a friend) who was wonderful in a million ways, but horrible in one way. It was a biggie. So I ended it. Her feelings were hurt by the whole thing. Mine, too. Then, I became involved with a younger woman (another friend of a friend) who has a boyfriend. We had lots of fun together, but she has a BOYFRIEND! He's in another part of the country and all, but still it just is not going to work and so it is now over. Finally, two weeks back, I met a woman in the same job as myself. She's - wait for it - a friend of a friend!! And, on the two nights I've been out in her company as part of a group, I've become smitten. And we definitely enjoy one another's company. I'm optimistic. I'm hoping to see her next week-end again, and (for want of a better expression) make my move.

But, maybe not. Maybe it is pointless.

Meeting that ex today has made me very, very sad.

She's alone and lonely. Our lives have grown apart. She came back to the country a couple of years ago, but she came with a boyfriend in tow and we didn't really keep in touch. (Okay, I avoided them like the plague!!) Today, looking at her, I knew that no matter how much I love her, or want to be a part of this, it's just not the way things will go. I'm not in her life, and I can't force my way back in. Especially not at a time like this.

I'm in shock. Lonely. Sad. And, um, lonely again.

But, if I want to be with someone for the rest of my life, I have to move on.

So, maybe I will make my move on Friday night.

And, going by the law of averages, I'll be single again in about six weeks. Possibly less. (Assuming, she even takes me on.)

So, here I am, an example of somebody doing it right.
1] I meet women regularly through a varied social life and wide selection of good friends.
2] I'm interesting (not good looking) and funny (not rich) and I know my strengths, and I feel confident about myself and women do respond to that.
3] I'm not bitter or angry. I like women. Most of my friends are women. I don't have a "complex".

And, at the end of the day, it's still impossible to meet Miss Right. I'm having degrees of success, yes. But, anything meaningful continues to elude me. It's impossible.

Completely impossible.

And, yes, I'm still a virgin. I made my mind up at about 18 to wait until I was in bed with someone I was in love with, before going all the way. Thus began a long career in petting, foreplay, sex toys and oral sex. Didn't expect that it would last this long!!! And the fact that I'm still a virgin at 33 doesn't really bother me. Certainly not when compared with the fear of being lonely forever. That really bothers me. I've been lonely all my adult life (expect for six weeks, four years ago) and I don't want to live out my life like this.

Yet, even if you do it right, you can still have zero success.

Zero.

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You got already very good and maybe more sensible answers, Shark, so if this one does not please you: Those bars are full of real sharks. Keep away, if you dont feel save. Girls populating those places want confident guys and money. Bars are meat-trading places. Nothing more. I like it, but its not for everybody!

If the heading, however, is no lie (little below 22 and not fucked yet, I cannot immagine it!!!!) and you dont meet the right girl within the next couple of months, I would strongly advise you to consider ordering an escort girl - just to jump over this wall. I am serious with this!

Edited by - Shameless on 9/15/2003 5:04:36 AM

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Edited for grammatical errors. Maybe I should use sign instead...oh, wait!

Edited by - hardware on 9/15/2003 2:47:42 PM

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On the asshole guys and bitches... maybe I'm abnormal, but I never liked the guys who were aggressive at bars. I liked the guy standing in the corner looking like he didn't want to be there. I think shy is attractive.

And a lot of these guys who talk about getting laid all the time aren't getting laid all the time.

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There's something else going on here, but I can't tell for sure what it is.

If you are hunch shouldered or have dandruff flakes or something, fix it.

I often hear people say that to meet nice girls you should join a church, etc. Forget that. If you liked church, you'd already be there. If you don't, why get involved with someone who does? Follow your own interests. If I had to start over, I'd do what I love, go to used bookstores and vegetarian resataurants, and I'd end up meeting guys who like used bookstores or veg. restaurants. Or whatever. If you don't have any interests -- what can I say...?

Maybe you're just in a bad mood, but it sounds like you don't like the girls, don't like the guys, and are mad if they have any fun. You are after 'getting something' and not trying to offer something. I'm not sure if you want just sex or a relationship -- maybe you don't know yet?

I hope it's just a passing frustration. 21 and a virgin isn't unusual at all, you have plenty of time to relax and decide what to do next. When you get relaxed about it, and you like people and feel like smiling at them and pursuing their interests, things fall into place.

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If you're a nice guy, then women who don't like nice guys are the wrong women for you. There are plenty of women who like nice guys, believe me.

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You're making a mistake if you hold back with a woman because you're uncertain about her feelings. Act on your feelings (within reason), and the woman will communicate how she feels when she's inclined to. It's not as if your feelings or hers are necessarily going to remain static, anyway.

If a woman rejects you, it isn't the end of the world; just ask out another woman that you're attracted to. Romance is a trial-and-error endeavor. You have to keep at it, without obsessing about it too much.

<typos>

Edited by - Bob on 9/18/2003 1:49:00 AM

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Meeting people is often difficult. I know several people who have met (and some who have married) using dating or matchmaking services. The most recent couple I know to have married used one of the online matchmaking sites. (I think it was Yahoo personals, but don't hold me to that.) I joined the emode personals - but I'm not really looking, just curious. I have started up a few new email "penpal" type relationships, though. There are definitely decent, genuine, people out there. Who knows, one of them might be a smart, lonely, porn performer who can cook.

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- Pornmaster Mike, hoping for a Dani Woodward/Penny Flame sandwich!
www.adultdv-depot.com

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The world moves a lot faster now than it did then. In those times what I described was considered "a good life". These days what I described is considered "a boring life".

With all due respect, those girls hanging off the arm of the asshole are more than likely there because they enjoy the fast paced type of lifestyle, and while you may feel that you are judged for the way you have lived your life, does that in turn give you the right to judge others for the way they live theirs?

Now, onto your problem with not having met a girl... why are you trying so hard to meet a girl? This is a mistake I see people making all the time in life, and I simply don't get it, although I admit 10 years ago I felt the same way.

You don't need to look for a girl in every single female that crosses your path in life. The only thing that really matters is if you meet a girl and there is a genuine mutual attraction between the two of you. Anything else and you are just going to end it in tears. To go out actively seeking attraction is inviting disaster. In my opinion from what you have said here, you are looking for love and going to find the one thing you have said you don't want... meaningless sex. Take a chill pill, relax, enjoy life, get your confidence high and the right girl will fall into your lap without all the aggravation you are putting yourself through now. Mark my words!

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The #1, most important, all other things will fall into place if this happens, learn it, live it, and love it:

Do not, under any circumstances, no matter what happens, regardless of what you may have been told in the past, EVER worry about what other people (especially fill dirt like Stern, whom I love, but recognize as a shallow, pompous ass) think about you.

FREEDOM from oppression, insecurity, frustration, self-doubt, <insert other excess baggage of similar ilk here> begins when you free yourself from trying to live up to OTHER PEOPLE'S EXPECTATIONS. Just because they said it on TV, or you read it in a magazine, or you see it in a bar, does not make it right in general, and definitely not right for you.

Confidence, not to mention peace of mind, comes naturally and easily when you realize the only person you have to answer to in the long run stares back at you in the mirror every day.

(Bear in mind, this dynamic changes immediately once you get married).

This ain't no dress rehearsal. You get a few thousand spins around the hot yellow ball in the sky. How you spend it, whether by accepting that you are 100% responsible for your own actions, or deciding to whimper and moan about how unfair it all is, is like one of those corporate slogans that's actually true:

My life is 10% what happens to me, and 90% how I react to it.

You choose, every day, whether to be beat down by the injustice, unfairness, ugliness, decay, and misery of the world, or to meet every challenge head on with the attitude that you may not always win but at least you tried.

Ultimately, if you believe in God, you got one other person (or is it Person) to answer to, and that happens after you die. While you're here -- it's all you, buddy.

(Until, like I said, you get married. Then my advice becomes: how important is winning to you? That important? Get divorced. Learn how concepts like "give and take", compromise, and partnership are now your new life-governing philosophies).

So there it is. Once I stopped worrying about pleasing all the people all the time, my stress level and general satisfaction with my lot in life (because I am 100% responsible for it) levelled out nicely. Everyone should try it. Otherwise, you're a slave to your background, your upbringing, your bosses, your leaders, your friends, your inhibitions, your hangups, your prejudices, all that rot. Slave? Or free? You choose.

Adopt this, and talking to a woman in a bar, or anyone anywhere else, becomes as easy as deciding to open your mouth. You won't always say the right thing, or the good thing, or the popular thing, and I think that's a *good* thing, because what you say will be YOUR thing, and THAT, my friend, is what "being yourself" is all about.

Free your mind, it's the best present you'll ever give yourself.

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I'm figuring 100 trips around the sun tops, and expecting I'll be as useless for the last few as I was for the first few, but I won't be nearly as cute, so I'll have to pay to get my diapers changed.

T.C.

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...Wow, a Lazarus Long reference. May I?

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-- Lazarus Long

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(I have ordered a lot of escort girls, I pick up a lot of street-walkers recently. I am proud to be able to buy girls favours with my wallet. Girls are the most beautiful thing in world - why should I withhold them from my life?!)

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Off course the street bears its dangers, but it is also a lot of cheap fun and lots of choice. Me personally I like driving my car by those girls, seing them standing there selling their body on a authentic flesh market and deciding about my investment right on the spot.
You just need to be sure to always play safe: i.e. CONDOMS ONLY...and keep some spare money ready for the police (just in case)

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Do you ever approach girls in bars/cluds? Or do you just sit down in the corner? It doesn't matter how nice you are, it is highly unlikely a girl is going to jump on you unless you make the first move. Remember women can get it pretty much any time they want, it's up to you to do the chasing.

I've got a couple of friends that are shy and timid, in turn they never approach girls. The longer this happens, the less confidence they have, and the worst it becomes. Get yourself out of this vicious circle.

Last weekend, I was in this club, and one of my timid friends told me to go and join my other mates that were chatting to girls they knew, and introduce myself. I thought good idea...but then why didn't he take his own advice? Well, I didn't do as he suggested becuase I noticed a couple of other girls by themselves. I'm now in contact with one of them...we'll see what happens.

Shameless,

Hope you're well. I've just got back tonight from shagging a nice petite not-so-well known UK porn star, on film on again. Thing is, I rarley ever watch my own work again. It was also only a few days ago when I booked this gorgeous model. I'm now a lot poorer, wish I was in Russia where my money would last a lot longer. Oh well, I'll just have to try and work my charm on this pretty blonde I met last week.

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And as if to make it worse, throwing yourself into the mix doesn't help. Social anxiety does not decrease with exposure as it does with static stimuli.

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ReleaseTheWinnerInsideYou.mp3

Follow the instructions and listen to it EVERY DAY! This one is more designed for getting rid of negative thinking which comes in many different things, including shyness! Obviously if any mods think posting this is inappropriate, please remove!

Hope this helps!

Edited by - sanchez_1960 on 9/27/2003 10:35:32 AM

Edited by - sanchez_1960 on 9/27/2003 10:36:58 AM

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The Philosopher

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i can't even begin to describe what a turnoff arrogance is. most of the guys who come up and talk to women at bars are arrogant, not confident.

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I agree with what you wrote. I am not a very socially successfully person and I'm also very shy, or at least I used to be very shy. But if you don't help yourself, you think the confident guy next to you is going to help you pull the bird he is chasing after?

Steph,

I'm sure there are a number of girls like shy guys. But, you've got to admit you're in the minority. You also don't seem to like guys that approach you in bars.

Imagine a bar where all the guys sat in the corner, and girls did all the chasing. Wow, now that is heaven!!

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...for all others: In West I heard there are courses to overcome shyness. Maybe this could be solution, if you dont want to order escort girl handy by phone or internet.

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Shameless,

Fuck!! I haven't been on this site for a while, and next thing I know you're starting an agency!! Damm, I should have found this out a few months ago...the money I could have saved by travelling to Kiev or Moscow, or wherever.

You shouldn't envy me too much with these UK porn stars...they are nice, but like to told you before, they are nothing special. This latest girl cost me £300 ($500) for 2 hours. No Anal, or cum on face, let alone swallowing. Plus I had to book hotel, so it wasn't cheap. But she was a nice girl and I liked her. But my favourite girl would beat the pants of any porn star...she is in such high demand it took me over a year to book her.

In the last month or two, I must have spent over £1000 ($1500) on 4 escort girls for an hour each. Had I known about your new line of work, I would have saved plenty of money by getting a flight over there.

When I get some money together I will be contacting you!!

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I understood exactly what you meant. You and I will just have to disagree about your moral superiority.

As for whether there's anything I'm afraid to admit to myself, read my posts and report back to me, Mr. Courageous.

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I have no experience of street girls, so I will not comment there. But, not all prostitutes are disease-ridden. The high class escorts I have met are more aware of STD's than a girl you may pick up in a bar.

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