New Forum for Extreme Porn Talk?

Author	Post
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:07AM I hope people have been reading this poll. We are considering splitting this first forum into Porn Talk and Extreme Porn Talk. Threads like "Attention Double Penetration Lovers" would obviously go in the Extreme Porn Talk forum. This would leave room in Porn Talk for discussion of anime, classics, all girl movies, basically everything but DPs, DAPs, gapes, etc. Porn Talk will not be called couples porn talk because every porno without DPs is NOT couples porn. Splitting the forum may not solve all the problems with squabbling and rude comments, but it's a start. The individuals who feel the need to post stupid comments on topics that don't interest them (ie when someone is asking about a vivid movie they consistently respond with vivid sucks) will be banned. Consider this the warning. Nobody has time to babysit. I hope this appeases the "factions" and I hope people stop feeling the need to join a faction. [Link]
RoccoFan Member 337 Posts 2/02	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:19AM Hi Steph, I think this will mean 98% of people will have to spend time going between forums. You'll probably get duplicate posts and responses. I think it would be better to repremand the few than to inconvenience the many. It's just another forum you'll have to monitor. Speaking as someone who's gotten out of line and has been spanked for it, it shouldn't take that much to get offenders in line. If they get out of hand then turn them off. Boat Drinks!!! RoccoFan The Madman Cumeth!! [Link]
snowden porn Member London 648 Posts 11/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:33AM I agree with RoccoFan in that everyone will be switching between the two forums which could produce duplicate posts and responces. But I'm more concerned about someone like me - I'm not keen on "couples porn", but in saying that I've never watched an Extreme Associates "circus acts" movie (or similar). I watched Euro Angels Hardball 3 and had to sell it after one viewing. I like the stuff in-between i.e. True Anal Stories, Up your Ass series. Does that mean that I am to be relegated to the "Circus Acts Talk Forum" ? I think its good to have everyone in the single main forum. That way we get views from all perspectives. If there is a thread like "New DAP/DPP release!!!" don't click on it if you don't want to! Just like I don't click on "VCA/VIVID news". "Do you think we can make her asshole gape wide open so we can see her intestines?" - by Layla Jade in Lex the Impaler [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:32AM Rocco - I thought you liked getting spanked? ;) Uh, 98%? Trust me when I say that the emails I get make clear that a lot of people, not just 2%, don't even want to see thread titles about multiple penetrations. I agree with both your points. And I think a large portion of people here like the "in-between" stuff. Yet somewhow we're all being marginalized into extreme and couples factions. If we aren't going to divide this forum, then the intentionally provacative (and I don't mean thought provacative) thread titles need to stop. There's a big difference between "VCA News" and "Attention Double Penetration Fans!!" - the second is clearly intended to offend rather than describe the contents of the thread. It could have easily be titled, "Caution: Your Azz Is In Danger 3 Just Released" [Link]
HoustonDon Member Houston 561 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:33AM RoccoFan wrote: I think this will mean 98% of people will have to spend time going between forums. You'll probably get duplicate posts and responses. I think it would be better to repremand the few than to inconvenience the many. It's just another forum you'll have to monitor. RoccoFan The Madman Cumeth!! Click to expand Rocco, I think her idea makes a lot of sense. Consider that there's already about a dozen forums-each of which address a certain focus-and one more is not going to cause irreparable harm. One of you "extremists" can become the moderator, and therefore be empowered to set the tone of the forum as well. As both Drew and Steph have said, the vocal few (who truly are both vocal and few in number) have shown that they already participate in several of the forums so perhaps giving them a forum to vent on would help others feel comfortable joining in (again) on the main forum while y'all can concentrate on the new forum. snowden porn wrote: I think its good to have everyone in the single main forum. That way we get views from all perspectives. If there is a thread like "New DAP/DPP release!!!" don't click on it if you don't want to! Just like I don't click on "VCA/VIVID news". Click to expand Snowden, that sounds good in theory but how often has someone posted something to the effect of "Vivid Sucks" in a thread where someone asked about the company? Personally, I think the problem isn't about Vivid sucking as much as the responses didn't follow through with a reason-just a hateful little response from a small-minded person. I think there'd be less chance of flame wars starting up when someone in the extreme forum started making idiotic claims about "vanilla" or "couples" porn too. Topics of broader interest could still be posted to the main forum while topics primarily of interest to the extremist crew would be put in the new forum. As for names, Steph's very fair about not stepping on toes. She isn't calling it the "Circus Act Sex" forum, she's calling it what some of you have called it. [Link]

Evil_Rip Senior Member Power overwhelming 1117 Posts 12/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:49AM "I will not let this republic be split in two, my negotiations will not fail." --Palpatine [Link]
RoccoFan Member 337 Posts 2/02	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 12:37PM I just wrote a response to Steph and HD that was lost. I'm too disheartened to type it over...here's the gist.. Overly sensitive people shouldn't be kowtowed to. The vast majority of us with "acquired tastes" are not rude and should not be banished to the nether reaches of the forum. "Attention Double Penetration Fans!!" is not meant to offend...."Weak-kneed limp-dicks who watch Vivid DVD's need not read this!"....now that is meant to offend. Rude, childish people won't change because of a forum seperation....they are always a click away. Boat Drinks!!!!! RoccoFan The Madman Cumeth!! [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 12:55PM Rocco - why do you view adding a new forum as a banishment? We're not catering to overly sensitive people, but many of us are tired of this first forum being dominated by a sect of multiple penetration fans. Creating the Porn Extreme forum could easily be viewed as catering to the extreme porn contigent. "Attention Double Penetration Fans!!" is not meant to offend.... Click to expand That's where we differ. Perhaps my opinion is skewed by the contents of the first post in that thread - but it seems to me that the title is intended to make people take sides in this imaginary battle. [Link]
HoustonDon Member Houston 561 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 12:56PM RoccoFan wrote: I just wrote a response to Steph and HD that was lost. I'm too disheartened to type it over...here's the gist.. Overly sensitive people shouldn't be kowtowed to. The vast majority of us with "acquired tastes" are not rude and should not be banished to the nether reaches of the forum. Rude, childish people won't change because of a forum seperation....they are always a click away. Click to expand Rocco, I lost a long post or two myself this week so I can sympathize. While I agree in spirit about "overly sensitive" people, I also see the borderline behavior that has been reducing participation by the mainstream crowd too. Apparently, some of the extremist crowd is quite guilty of being overly sensitive as well (want a few threads?). No matter, I suppose the alternative to another forum would be banning 3 or 4 people. Would you prefer that? Acquired tastes: We all have acquired tastes. It's not about what acts you prefer to watch but about your behavior towards those who don't "see the light" as you do. When a few of you make claims regarding "vanilla porn" or "couples porn", you drive a wedge into the community. Maybe a few of you would do well to chat amoungst yourselves via email to figure out if you can be self-policing to a better degree. In any case, one more forum won't harm anything, will it? (heck, I'd almost like to see a "reviews" forum where topics relating solely to reviews could be focused on-it's not about dividing the community as much as it's about allowing more freedom within a smaller realm)... [Link]
NuTTy BuDDy Member 133 Posts 4/02	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:03PM "I like the stuff in-between i.e. True Anal Stories, Up your Ass series. Does that mean that I am to be relegated to the "Circus Acts Talk Forum" ?" [Link]
scipio Senior Member 1901 Posts 2/00	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:23PM While I can see the PoV that Steph and Drew have here, I'm not a real fan of the idea myself. Simply because while a lot of stuff is easily-placed, there's a lot of in-between stuff that would potentially fall through the cracks. For example, where would we place a lot of the European stuff? And yes I'm talking about some of Private's stuff, obviously their Superfuckers, etc go in the extreme forum, but what about their plotted stuff (ie Private Gold/Black Label) that often has DPs, etc. Even worse is something like The Private Penthouse, which is a "soft" take on the regular Private formula, but still features DPs and the rest. Then there's the various comps, featuring scenes from all of the above.. despite me using Private as an example, it's not the only one. There's the Marc Dorcel stuff distributed by Wicked in the States. Again, plotted porn featuring DPs and all the rest. Not to mention DPs and anal being pretty common even amongst your standard run-of-the-mill US productions these days? (do any new movies NOT feature at least one anal?) Where do we draw the "extreme" line? I have to say, that people not wanting to even see titles mentioning DPs seems strange to me, considering the genre of the forum we're all playing in. I think its good to have everyone in the single main forum. That way we get views from all perspectives. If there is a thread like "New DAP/DPP release!!!" don't click on it if you don't want to! Just like I don't click on "VCA/VIVID news". Click to expand I have to say that this is the mature, intelligent response to take from posters. Now I'll be quite frank: If someone is trolling a vivid thread with "vivid suxors" then are they really the type of people that need to be posting? My personal opinion is this:~ Don't split the ADT forum. Have a little "rules-set" in small font above the list of forums, mentioning that flamers, trollers will NOT be tolerated at all, and will be banned, fast. Give trollers one warning, after that, ban them. This webpage is not a democracy. - Play like an adult or not at all. If someone can't hold their tongue in regards to trolling or insults, (especially after a warning) then it's their own bad luck. Don't like threads about DAP's? Fine, don't read them. Hate Vivid? Fine, skip their threads. When debate comes up, as it surely will, if posters can remember to act like adults (which we should all be to even be -in- this site) then it can be fine. This means "I don't like vivid stuff because yadda yadda yadda" posts are one thing while "vivid sux, bro. Why would you watch that shit? U must be a lamr" are another. I think this can be taken care of in this way, without too much hassle. In the past I've seen ..questionable posts in other forums that I would have jumped into, but since "my" forum is the Int.Shopping one I've been loath to step on another Mod's toes. I'd gladly volunteer to help out in this forum as well if it's wanted or needed. Well, that's -my- opinion.. Time for people to grow up here methinks. scipio [Link]
Phallusee Deactivated User 61 Posts 9/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:31PM Great strategy, Steph! This should effectively weed out those of us who post to shock, offend, titilate, disturb, disgust, etc. for our own amusement. Because you'll be stealing our fire by relegating our antics to a "ghetto" board. What'll be the point, then? You are the Rudy Guiliani of this forum! Cheers! [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:36PM I like the idea of another forum, at least as an experiment. I see potential for it to work well as a place for posts in a different spirit. I don't see "sex acts" as a dividing line. Rather, it is your perception of them. If you want to discuss Straight to the A, and ask if it was any good, and if there was a problem with playing it, and so on, you could ask where you feel more comfortable. But if you specifically wanted to know all about the sex acts, and where you could find more scenes of this or that actress getting DPed, you could ask on the extreme board, among people most likely to know the answer. It sounds a bit chaotic, but I strongly believe that after a few days, people would find the area in which they are comfortable, and gravitate there. A post that might be out of place on one board would fit in on the other, even if they are about the same thing (anal, for example), but written in a different spirit. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8011 Posts 9/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 2:41PM Phallusee wrote: Great strategy, Steph! This should effectively weed out those of us who post to shock, offend, titilate, disturb, disgust, etc. for our own amusement. Because you'll be stealing our fire by relegating our antics to a "ghetto" board. What'll be the point, then? You are the Rudy Guiliani of this forum! Cheers! Click to expand Thanks for the great example of posts that we would rather not have. [Link]
YogaGrrl self-removed user 757 Posts 12/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 3:11PM I can see pros and cons both ways, but I slightly favor the split, for the same reasons that Speelie has already mentioned. The Adult DVD Talk forum currently contains over 20,000 posts. It encompasses such a broad range of topics that it would probably benefit from a little reorganization. As a reviewer, I also agree with HoustonDon's idea of creating a separate "Review" forum. Obviously, this is going to involve more work for the moderators, who will have to make some judgment calls about moving threads. But as a member who likes many styles of porn, I don't feel that a split would inconvenience me in the least. It only takes a couple of mouse clicks to switch between forums. No big deal. [Link]

BIGmike B-I-G-m-i-k-e 2335 Posts 3/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 3:21PM Give trollers one warning, after that, ban them. This webpage is not a democracy. - Play like an adult or not at all. If someone can't hold their tongue in regards to trolling or insults, (especially after a warning) then it's their own bad luck. -Great idea, I don't care what any one here says, types, or whatever about me. But some people get intimidated easily, so a few comments and then you don't see any more of them, which isn't right. If we can't respect others opinions, thoughts, ideals, or preferences, then why bother to have a forum? My understanding of this forum is to get information, to talk with studios and get information on releases, to talk about anything ADULT, and to help others out (inform them about potential problem discs, to point people in the right direction of what they are looking for, etc...) Am I right or am I wrong? [I can't believe that this forum is solely for excluding others who don't share your beliefs.] ---BIGmike, over and out!--- [Link]
P-Knuckle Member 309 Posts 11/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 3:32PM I think this is a brilliant idea. I would also love to be the forum moderator but am to busy in by personal/professional life; plus my history of being a obnoxious idiot can't help. A seperate forum would hopefully cut down on people saying 'vivid sucks' in vivid info topics and the like. 'Consider that there's already about a dozen forums-each of which address a certain focus-and one more is not going to cause irreparable harm.' houstondon Right on! We have a gay forum, lets have a extreme porn forum. The gonzo/extreme market is much different and deserves a different forum. This will make everyone more happy. A new forum that is more acute to the issues and questions asked by postees can only be more satisfying for all of us. I know I will post and read both seperate forums if it exists. Adultdvdtalk moderators, please seriously consider splitting the forum. Thanks for listening. [Link]
anal_fan Member 104 Posts 12/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:11PM Lets face it, i'm sure EVERYONE who will read the "Adult DVD Talk" forum will also read the "Extreme Forum" so why seperate the two? A person has the option of viewing a thread titled: "DP's,DAP's, Gapes", just like that person has the option of buying a movie that contains this subject matter. It seems to me that most of the discussion here is of the gonzo genre, which does consist of alot of anal antics. We're not catering to overly sensitive people, but many of us are tired of this first forum being dominated by a sect of multiple penetration fans. -steph granted this is your forum (and a great one it is), but why be tired of specific adult discussion? obviously it is a "hot" topic, nothing to really get upset over. I do agree that personal attacks are wrong, and criticizing ones viewing habits is wrong, thats one great thing about porn, there is something for everyone!! and no ones going to change anothers mind. [Link]
Whiplash the suave incubus Member 112 Posts 6/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:22PM A bad and shocking idea. Just suppose what will happen if the true perverts of this board are left alone in a forum of their own with none of the normals left to check them. It will turn into a stinking pit of insults, recommended rape fantasies, insanity, rantings...and Beelzebub and his grandma' drunk dancing on the table. I agree with RoccoFan and I've always found the pig-posts of mr. Phallusee very entertaining. I'm very stupid and I never realized there were factions on this board and that some has been offended by the bad guys of this forum. Since I like n-y porn I must be among the baddies and if I've ever offended anyone I apologize. Nothing is like a hearty row between friends and some rudeness might just be spicy. [Link]
bono-ONE All-Star Member SAMCRO 8571 Posts 8/00	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:23PM I have been posting at this site for almost two years and have yet to see anything really really bad go down, maybe a few instances but those are so rare. I have on many occasions give the to this site for the free discussion and general positive atmosphere of this site for discussing adult material. As opposed to a site like RAME where flame wars are much more prevalent this site tends to have a broad and varied discussion of porn and I would say the vast majority of discussions are posted with thought out opinions by all involved. I don't necessarily agree with the opinions expressed but I do respect the persons right to express it as long as they give what most people would consider to be a well thought out and expressed reason for it and not just a "Vivid Sucks" comment. If I have said that and might have then I too need to give a reason for why I say that. Now as for starting a forum for Extreme Porn I think that is a fine idea since that is probably the niche I like best. I like that type of porn best and I base this on the "Down the Hatch" series of which there are several varieties from Anabolic/Diabolic and then other companies like Private and Evil Angel make the gonzo porn I like to watch. I don't dislike couples porn or features porn as much as I don't watch them because they don't include the type of action the series from Anabolic or Private contain. Not to say these companies like Vivid or Wicked don't make good porn because they do or they wouldn't make the kind of money they do. It seems these type of companies make the films which stress some type of storyline over the aggressive sex which you see in a Lewd Conduct scene. So having two forums separted to discuss each kind of porn seems like a fine idea as long as Steph and Drew want to put the extra work into doing it or if they just want to clean out the people who want to just flame with no reason and keep the forum the way it is then that is fine too. I would suggest maybe calling a new forum Gonzo porn instead of Extreme or Circus porn-- that term I really hate. I would love to volunteer to be a moderator for such a forum but with a Webtv I don't think I could do the proper moderation but I know I would watch what others said and would voice my dislike if I saw something not appropriate or better yet just email the person making the offending remark and asking them to please show a little more class. This forum is a goldmine for the adult community and we seem to get great involvement from stars like Tina and Kimi, owners/ studio people like Tricia and David Crawford, and great reviewers like Houston, Astro, and Rog occasionally. So I vote yes for a Gonzo forum. Let me clarify I think both Vivid and Wicked film some great sex scenes they just don't film it consistently like they do at Anabolic or Evil Angel. Like I said the storyline takes up a lot of scene time so you might get less time seeing the girl give a blowjob and often the cumshots are not of the facial variety or if it is on the face you see a lot of pushouts of the cum and in the Anabolic or Evil Angel scenes the cum seems to stay in or near the girls mouth and you see more playing with the cum than I recall seeing in a Vivid scene. Now I have seen some great gonzo porn from Wicked-- the Laure Sainclair movies from Marc Dorcel which Wicked releases are usually very good showing the gonzo stuff and they do tend to include a storyline with the sex so I have always tended to like Wicked moreso than Vivid. Edited by - bono-ONE on Apr 9 2002 [Link]
RoccoFan Member 337 Posts 2/02	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:25PM Everyone, If this split were done in the spirit of providing another forum for different views, then fine. The spirit of the split is one of.."lets get rid of the trouble makers". If that's the case, and I really think it is, then your problem will not be solved and we'll be at it again in another three months. You have to weed out the trouble makers. People who just want to talk about the quality of an oral gangbang scene or the directorial quality of an anal scene have been doing so and will continue. When you make a split what are you gonna have, one group that writes.."I think Lex was so polite when he ejaculated on the pretty young ladies stomach"..and another forum for people who write...."I love the way Lex pounded that little blonde bitch within and inch of her fucking life, but he bitched out when he only jizzed on her belly instead of making her eat the goo". Think about this people...really stop and think about the feelings that are driving this. The one forum format allows people to get a full range of views. The heart of the matter is decency vs. rudeness. Saying you like to see big butt black women get fucked in the ass isn't rude. Telling someone they're a jerk for liking that is. Find the people who do the latter and weed them out! Splitting the group will not solve that problem. Only weeding out the rude will. Boat Drinks!!!!! RoccoFan The Madman Cumeth!! [Link]
NuTTy BuDDy Member 133 Posts 4/02	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:38PM ^^^ I Thought that Made Perfect Sense & I'm not against a Extreme Content Forum, No Inconvience for me, But... I don't think it will Solve any Problem(if there is one that Big) [Link]
Gabriel Nine Senior Member Firecracker 1273 Posts 8/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:40PM It's unfortunate, Steph, that you feel this way. I must confess that I wasn't really aware of a problem till I read the thread about Latin Psycho etc, now closed. I thought it was a heated, but entertaining little debate, though it got wearing after a while. I am not sure about splitting it in the way you suggest. Maybe you could have an all out unmoderated "bearpit" forum where anything goes. Perhaps on the other hand people could genuinely respect other's right to differ, rather than just saying they do. That seems to be one of the problems with that previously mentioned thread. Perhaps "Adult DVD Talk" could be only about DVDs and attendant matters such as release dates, cast, quality issues and so on. Then the separate forum could be about the CONTENT. From my POV, I actually kinda liked things the way they were. I don't want to read about "couples" porn (whatever the hell that really is) or "extreme" porn exclusively. I don't read the threads about Vivid etc, and I rarely read the ones about DPP etc. So what am I suggesting? Uhm, let me get back to you on that... [Link]
Gabriel Nine Senior Member Firecracker 1273 Posts 8/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:46PM Re-reading some other suggestions, I can't see how you can split it on subject, given that people can't even agree on the definitions. [Link]
-lunacy- Senior Member 1081 Posts 4/00	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:46PM Steph my luv, for once we disagree. I don't think the forum should be split. It's a porn forum, we discuss porn, all types. If someone is so sensitive they can't even read a thread title that mentions something they personally don't like, then they shouldn't be here. As far as the dingleberries that cannot play nice, warn them once then ban them. The rules of play are simple, and most members are good about observing them. If one or two can't, dump them. I think it was HDon that said it...the forum is not a democracy. I know your a darling and just want everyone to place nice but IMHO it's time to take the gloves off sister and kick some tushy! [Link]

qrop Member 163 Posts 8/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:59PM I think is a great idea and Scipio as the moderator of the new forum will be great too, ....bu the name will be a little comfusing because a porn company has the same title "Extreme" why not "Euro Porn Forum", ...one more thing,maybe this is a silly question but if somebody is talking about a Private new release that he just saw,in the regular forum,..will be ok to ask that person an specific question about a specific sex act (anal,dp)? that for instance Michael Wild might be doing in that DVD in Particular or legit questions like that will not be allowed out of the new "extreme"forum. .....Disclaimer: I am NOT trying to offend anyone with my questions,just trying to clarify what everyone is talking about. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 7:31PM I tried to post this and got informed my password was invalid, so if this is a duplicate please forgive me. ----------------------------------------------------------- A forum is a public meeting place for the exchange of ideas. It seems to me that what is being proposed here is to break the forum up into clubs where like-minded people can go to agree with each other. Consider the possibility that, even in porn, more may be learned by an exchange of dissimilar views than by hanging out exclusively with people who agree with you. Perhaps you will hear views that are offensive to you, but in a forum their expression is still legitimate. If you decide you don't care for a discussion, move on. If you feel someone is trying to hijack your discussion, ask them to start their own. Having said that, as moderator, Steph does have the right to set the rules of debate, and I agree with BigMike that banishment is appropriate for those who refuse to follow them. I just hope everyone bears in mind that, lacking personal contact, the intent of the author is something that we inject into the written word; or, in the immortal words of P. Ballswick Wad, "Remember crew..you're only where you think you are!" the Pagfeek Papers Hardware (Sorry, I just had to get that in! (PAF)) [Link]
Sbando Boy Euro Babe Magnet 1839 Posts 6/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 8:07PM Splitting the Forum in two would be very bad, but only for the people (or some of the people) who have been victims of the trolls' attacks, not for the trolls themselves. Steph came to the conclusion that we have to keep threads , and so contents , apart to avoid the fighting and the not going anywhere anymore feel of the main Forum. I want to feel safe every time I log into ADT, I don't want a personal haven. The problem I have with these younger and more aggressive posters is not about their remarks or about their, in the end, harmless and childish trolling: it's the fact the there's no debate anymore! No comments are posted, no thoughts, no buying info (they kept reviewing dvd'd that wouldn't even load in their players). A new Rocco comes out, or a new Nacho, or whatever, and they monopolize the discussion. You try to insert a couple of comments about the movie or the movie-maker and they don't give a damn!. How many others would have contributed with their thoughts but felt intimidated by the aggressive way these people dealt with everything that wasn't their hype? So if you consider that what I like and collect is what you call "Europorn", then you can safely bet that the only way I've left to discuss these subject with decent people, is to mail them privately. Another point: Charlie, one of the quietest and most respected ADT's posters and reviewers is the resident expert on bukkake and fisting. Gabriel's favorite movie is Animal Trainer 4. RonK is a fine esample of how someone can be a fan of "extreme" acts and still be able to post interesting comments about them. Not to mention, of course, my personal friends, some of which are obsessed with stuff like dap or whatever they call them, but are some of the nicer people around here. So the distinction IS NOT between couples vs. freak show acts. As I've said, these little trolls are harmless. They're like those mean kids in High School who would make fun of you because you had separated parents or something like that. Now I knew what to answer them and how to treat them. It's just that I don't care anymore, 'cos now I'm a grown up (and then some) and I simply don't care anymore. Please, my dear, dear friends Steph and Drew: don't take something away from me. And don't let the others think that, somehow, the trolls won. [Link]
delijoe Member 29 Posts 10/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:23PM I think there should be seperate forums. There's a reason why the mainstream porn fans don't post on this forum, it's not only because they feel intimidated, but the posts about anything not considered "extreme" are usually ignored. If you split the forums, you'll not only allow the intimidated people to post, but attract new posters who would have a choice to post a topic in a more narrow category. Personally I would have an "extreme" forum, a "mainstream" forum, a "lesbian" forum, and possibly an "anime" forum. [Link]
delijoe Member 29 Posts 10/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:26PM And a response to the poster who was talking about the "in-between" stuff...I would think a feature that might contain a DP or anal still would be in the main forum (such as the private stuff he mentioned). The extreme is the rocco/evil angel stuff that FOCUSES on anals, DPs, and other extreme acts. [Link]
tricia_devereaux Evil Angel DVD Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:33PM I totally agree with lunacy. I know it will probably mean more work for the moderators, but I would prefer to see the forum stay as is, but with people having better manners. And many people have already made the good point of: if you see a topic you don't want to read, don't read it. My views are partly selfish: where do I post info about a Buttman title? In the non-extreme section, because of all the tease, or the extreme section because it might have some anal sex in it? It gets more confusing when I get to Rocco. Although some women like his DVDs, I wouldn't (in my mind) call it "couples porn". But some of the extreme folks here will most likely soon get bored of even Rocco, as he hasn't been shooting a whole lot of double or triple penetrations. Sorry if I sound frustrated, but as I said in another thread, well... I am. I am very happy that I work for a range of directors as diverse and talented as Jules Jordan, John Stagliano, John Leslie, Joey Silvera, Christoph Clark, Rocco Siffredi, and Randy West. I enjoy my job, and I enjoy discussing my job and thoughts with others. While some may think that the recent threads and posts from certain individuals which read (paraphrase - Evil Angel rules! Vivid sucks! If it doesn't have dap, it isn't good porn!) would be flattering to me, they're not. I'm thrilled that there are people out there who are so intensely dedicated to some of the DVDs which do come from Evil Angel and Anabolic and companies like that. However, I am truly embarassed by the assault that has been taken on people who don't share those views of desiring pushing the envelope so far. As I've said before, I love the friendly atmosphere of ADT. Well, it hasn't been so friendly anymore. [Link]
ELNINO Member 41 Posts 12/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:34PM All good forums change from time to time. This forum might need a little change and if you are losing members because of a material that could be put in a seperate area why not do it. I don't want Gay Porn post in GD so I don't see why everyone is crying about a need change and there might be some good in a small change. The changes can always be undone. [Link]
anal_fan Member 104 Posts 12/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:39PM this is kind of getting crazy, this is all going to come down to definitions what is extreme? What is mainstream? seems to me that 75% of the posts on this forum are "extreme" topics There's a reason why the mainstream porn fans don't post on this forum, it's not only because they feel intimidated, but the posts about anything not considered "extreme" are usually ignored. -delijoe maybe extreme is actually mainstream?, just a thought. maybe the success of this forum is built on "extreme" topics. Maybe we all wouldnt be here now if there was no "extreme" topics to discuss? I always thought the purpose for a forum was for discussion/pros/cons. If you ask me forums were built for questions/answers/discussion/argument, thats all i've ever seen on any message board forum. [Link]
Saki At-Large 2087 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:50PM Tricia wrote: As I've said before, I love the friendly atmosphere of ADT. Well, it hasn't been so friendly anymore. Click to expand That's pretty much why I stopped reading RAME years ago. I am truly amazed at how fanatical some people can be over pornography. It makes me wonder whether these people are like this in real life. The real reason why I keep coming back to this site is because of the community. The reason it's a community is because people care about it. Once we cease to care about it, then you might as well just save the aggravation and just shut down the forum now. While I appreciate the sentiment that this should be a place to freely express one's opinions, I don't think that should be a license to insult, provoke, or forward one's own agenda. I don't think there's anything wrong in Drew or Steph laying down rules since they pay the bills. Those that don't like that can try to create their own community rather than trying to hijack one. I always knew this day would come. Ignoring the problem isn't going to make it better, and certainly encouraging it by legitimizing it isn't going to either. From someone who's seen just about every type of porn there is, I'm of the opinion that "extreme porn" tends to attract the type that doesn't really care about what anyone else thinks. That doesn't mean that everyone or even most of the people who identify with that genre are that way, but when you really look at it, it's not a lot of people who are causing this uproar, is it? - Saki Edited by - Saki on Apr 9 2002 [Link]
delijoe Member 29 Posts 10/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:51PM Well...here's the top bestsellers on Adultdvdempire.com: 1. Briana Loves Jenna 2. Fade To Black 3. Island Fever 4. Flesh Hunter 5. Cum Drippers 2 6. Young Devon 7. Where The Boys Aren't #14 8. Just Over Eighteen #2 9. Cum Swapping Sluts #1 10. Ass Worship 2 half on the titles on this list are not extreme, and there are 3 vivid titles on here. Top 3 are as "vanilla" as they come. I don't agree, there are other (smaller) forums out there where there are many more posts about vivid/wicked stuff. So in essense the extreme fans have taken over this forum, and the only recourse IMO is to split the forums. [Link]

Saki At-Large 2087 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:58PM maybe extreme is actually mainstream?, just a thought. maybe the success of this forum is built on "extreme" topics. Maybe we all wouldnt be here now if there was no "extreme" topics to discuss? Click to expand Well, of course anything's possible. But the AdultDVDTalk existed more than two years before you registered here, anal_fan, and there were plenty of people who participated well before the merits of Rocco or Rob Black were discussed. rec.arts.movies.erotica seemed to do just fine too. As a matter of fact, the organized pornography industry did quite well for more than 20 years before "Rough Sex" and the like came along. And I'll bet everything I own that "vanilla porn" commands the majority of sales worldwide. So just because the recent topics here are "extreme" that necessarily means that's what the majority of people like? - Saki [Link]
Oneloa Member 848 Posts 2/00	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:07PM My 2 cents... I don't think we should split the forums either. I'm surprised that someone could be offended by the title "Attention Double Penetration Fans!!". This is an adult site. If someone is offended by that title alone, then maybe they shouldn't be on an adult site. Or just don't read that topic. There are several topics I don't read, simply because I don't have any interest in them. I just feel that there are too many gray areas in porn to divide them appropriately. There are some movies that aren't "extreme" but may have a DP in it. Also, what's extreme to one person isn't extreme to someone else. I too come here for the community and the friendliness. Making comments or posts just to offend people is more than immature. I'm sorry that a few people have to fuck things up for others. But, I agree with Lunacy... ban those that cause the problems. - [ invalid url ] [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:09PM I'm not sure how splitting the forum stops the "This is what I like, so you must be crazy to like something else" type of arguments. It just seems that they would now exist on two different forums. Would they be settled with "Hey this thread is in the "insert forum here" forum, therefore "insert forum here" opinion must be correct? I think that we are discovering that the "mainstream" vs. "extreme" debate is joining religion and politics as unwinnable debates. How can you win a debate essentially says "I like this, therefore you can't like that". Steph & Drew, if you really want to create a separate forum, maybe it should be some type of a "Debate" or "Opinions" type of forum. Whenever a thread turns into something like the the "Nacho Vidal" thread turned into, then a moderator can move it to that forum. At least the definition of what belongs in this forum would be something that most people could agree upon. This would make it very easy for people to avoid the threads that get heated. Edited by - Bill Broderick on Apr 9 2002 [Link]
delijoe Member 29 Posts 10/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:14PM I think the debate is whether so-called vanilla porn can be discussed when your always shouted down or ignored. The problem with that post "attention all DP fans." was the comments about hating vanilla porn, "no vanilla porn, what we all hate." When I read that, I see that the forum's been taken over and a split into categories would really help. If there's an extreme forum, people could post that they hate vanilla porn all they want, because it won't be discussed in that forum. [Link]
Zatoichi Member Sunny California 414 Posts 1/01	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:19PM What has been happening here at ADT of late is symptomatic of what has happened with every other online forum I've ever been a part of; a large influx of new members, followed by an immediate increase in both the number & severity of the flame wars that erupt. I had hoped that ADT would be immune to this Balkanization, but it appears that was naive. I came here because of the free, open & respectful discussions that I saw taking place. Lately, that seems to be in danger of being lost. Sending the offending parties to their own forum isn't going to help-I've seen it tried, along with the idea of a separate, unmoderated forum (total chaos). From a personal standpoint, I don't want to have to visit another forum simply to discuss material that someone has deemed too "extreme" for the main forum. I mainly buy gonzo titles these days, but my collection ranges from Seymore to Rocco to Jane Hamilton to Andrew Blake. It'd be wonderful if this board could rely on the wisdom of its members to be self-policing in regard to their posts; unfortunately, as with any other collection of individuals, it ain't going to happen. I know that being a mod on any board is a demanding, thankless task. But it's the mods who can restore order here. Estabish a code of conduct that is clearly understood by everyone. Violators get warned. If they can't clean up their act, then they get hammered. Once a few of their buddies get the ax, the remaining trolls, flamers, etc. may see the light. One board that I belong to lists the names of banned users in a separate section as a warning to those with no self-control. In short: I agree 1000% with lunacy. Keep the forums the way they are, just remind people that it's not a democracy around here. [Link]
Saki At-Large 2087 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:23PM Zatoichi wrote: In short: I agree 1000% with lunacy. Keep the forums the way they are, just remind people that it's not a democracy around here. Click to expand Much better than I could of said it...or rather, said it! And kudos for using "Balkanization" in a porn-related discussion! - Saki [Link]
astroknight Questionable Moderator Tastes so good... 4187 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 12:41AM Well, this has taken quite a bit of thought. At first I slightly favored the split, but after thinking about it quite a bit, I'm now favoring leaving it the same. To me, there's just too much grey area. Like somebody said earlier (sorry, it's late and I'm too lazy to go back through 40 or 50 responses), there's the Private stuff, Marc Dorcel, and even Buttman that can fit nicely in either one. Plus, tastes grow and change, and every once in a while we get curious and look for something new. An extreme, or perhaps better put would be "Raincoater Forum" can be very intimidating for people looking to first experiment a little. I first started with a couple Buttman features after hearing so much about them, and both Buttman's Ultimate Workout[/i[ and Buttman's European Vacation are two of the first titles I recommend to couples looking for something that either want something a little different, or something fun, or something without the silly plots and bad acting. I agree that "Attention Double Penetration Fans" was a boneheaded title that sounds like it's meant to shock. It could have just as easily been titled to do with the movie title or even abbreviating it to DP would have helped, but putting it like that looks like just one of those problems that have chased the mainstream porn crowd away. More than anything, I think a good start would be with a little spring cleaning. I think with about six or eight really good swift kicks in the @$$ out the door would solve many of the problems here, and make this all a moot point. [Link]
HoustonDon Member Houston 561 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 1:06AM Wow-I come back from work and look at all the related discussion in a few threads. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that despite my hope that the few "problem children", for lack of a better term, could be saved by giving them their own forum, a number of you have changed my mind. It's evident that a handful have decided that they will use any excuse to hijack various threads and make ADT a less fun place to be, no matter what concessions are made. There's only one solution, as distasteful as it seems to a supporter of the free speech such as myself: AXE THEM! scipio: 01:23:26 PM: Agreed! Phallusee: 01:30:53 PM: Thanks for proving my point. YogaGrrl: 03:11:11 PM: As long as become the moderator, I like it! anal_fan: 04:11:26 PM: I think she's tired because of the way so many unrelated threads get hijacked by the vocal few. Getting rid of them, if they continue their ways, will solve that. Whiplash: 04:21:40 PM: Not all of share the same sense of community. Particularly some of the newer people never learned the rules by which we play nice. When they are gone, most of the troubles will go with them. Oh, and you're not stupid... bono-ONE: 04:23:30 PM: One of the things I find distasteful about RAME is that the moderators play favorites way too often. I stopped posting there after getting cut off several times without a chance to respond to some juvenile remark directed my way. I like their website though. I don't think the real problem has been the sex acts as much as the contempt the vocal few have for the rest of us. That's gonna change-I can almost promise you that their rein of terror is almost over. Watch! Thanks for the kind words though. RoccoFan: 04:24:48 PM: Agreed! Gabriel Nine: 04:39:58 PM: Bearpit...I like it! Would you moderate? Sbando Boy: 08:07:00 PM: This was the argument that swayed my opinion the most (well, along with Tricia's). Well Said! tricia_devereaux: 10:33:11 PM: Lunacy is so right, agreed. I'm a major fan of your companies releases but I draw the line at shilling (as some have thought they were doing). You and I have always been in agreement about the fanatics who thought they were helping you and always will be. BTW, Ias far as I'm concerned, you can post anything in any forum you like. Hugs! ELNINO: 10:33:46 PM: The Gay forums often have some of the best written stuff. I'm straight but I check them out all the time. anal_fan: 10:38:55 PM: You're right, it's not the sex acts, it's the few who need to leave. I wish them well in whatever other forums they screw up. I won't bore you with market demographics but if you truly think "extreme" porn is the best selling, you really need to take a long look. Thanks for the input though. Saki: 10:50:08 PM: IIRC, you warned us a long time ago regarding "this day" coming. We always knew you were right but hoped against all hope that the community would squash any problem makers before they got out of hand. As always, I defer to your wisdom in these matters. delijoe: 10:51:29 PM: Good idea! You should also point out that Empire has the lion's share of the online porn market-I'm told something like 75%. I agree with your later comments too. Zatoichi: 11:18:33 PM: I moderate an unrelated board and noticed that a couple of members are the only problem. They are kept on a moderated status where they need every message approved before posting. The leash is the only thing that keeps them in line. ADT's too big to bother with them so maybe the moderators should start editing the abusive stuff-maybe adding that the person is in violation and is a jerk-a few times before erasing them. Astro: 12:41:24 AM: In my email converstaions with another, lurk only, member, we have been referring to the problem children as the "Foolish Five". There may be more but it seem to be 5 members that cause 98%+ of the problems. At least one of them is a marginal contributor in my favorite area and I have thought it'd be a shame to lose him but if push came to shove, I'd send him on his way too (you had him nailed elsewhere). "More than anything, I think a good start would be with a little spring cleaning." Go get 'em tiger! PS: I answered this way so that everyone knew where I stood in relation to all the comments. I like most of you a lot, a few of you a whole lot, and others I respect, if not like, so consider any ommissions an attempt to minimize my tendency to respond like a DarkMage review. [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 3:26AM I don't know the best answer to the current troubles, but I am certain that I hope to see a situation in which more discussions of various topics are possible. I've been frustrated at watching my last few attempts to get a discussion going meet almost no response. Admittedly, they were somewhat narrow topics, such as "mysogyny vs. trying to provoke some response in a placid actress" and "keeping track of the appearances of the latest hot babes from Prague" but these are the sort of things I discuss with friends via private e-mail, and I hope to get more people involved in the discussion. I can talk endlessly about Euro girls and the philosophy of making movies of the Woodman/Clark.LeCastel/Nacho etc. type, and I want to believe that there are others who share this interest to a greater degree than simply wondering which actresses get DPed. [Link]
Sbando Boy Euro Babe Magnet 1839 Posts 6/01	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 4:02AM Our private e-mails are only a further testament of how well this Forum works. Or better, of all the good things it can lead to outside of the everyday debate. Your thread about misogyny was one of the most interesting and thought provoking of the first 3 months of 2002. As interesting were your comments about Nacho not being ready to pull it off as the new Rocco or your admirable effort (with a little help from your friends) to write this fantastic map (places, facts, names) of the Eastern European porn. Silence is one thing. Many may have read and found the info priceless. Insults sometimes have the effect to overshadow the information, and while the blame is officially on the troll, the impression that a chance was wasted and that the thread was only another messy flame war is what stays in people's minds. [Link]
scipio Senior Member 1901 Posts 2/00	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 7:16AM just delete this one.. I got confused by HD's post and replied to it thinking he was quoting me in chat.. which I found odd since I wasn't in a chat... carry on. On a semi-related note, I could definately see seperate forums for technical DVD posts and for Review discussions. I remember the old tech posts between Bill Broderick, others and the Wicked, A&E authoring guys.. they were quite interesting at times. :) Edited by - scipio on Apr 10 2002 Edited by - scipio on Apr 10 2002 [Link]
Steve K. Deactivated User 840 Posts 11/01	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 8:24AM Well I just wanted to chime in on this one - since I have been here since this site started. Although I went through 3 different screen names and my tough times here at ADT, but I think I am a mature typer now . I would like to see another forum called Extreme DVD Talk. It would really be cool then all the extreme/hardcore fans would be in one area and then the "vanilla" fans would be in another area. If that were to happen then of course you wouldn't see posts saying "Vivid Sucks", "VCA Sucks" becuase no hardcore/extreme fan buys those companies dvds. Just my 2 cents [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 9:31AM I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful comments. I have received more via email. Other people who don't want to post their thoughts here are also welcome to email me. [Link]
astroknight Questionable Moderator Tastes so good... 4187 Posts 11/99	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 10:24AM If that were to happen then of course you wouldn't see posts saying "Vivid Sucks", "VCA Sucks" becuase no hardcore/extreme fan buys those companies dvds. Click to expand Thank you for yet another display of the idiocy we're talking about here. As somebody who has enjoyed every Evil Angel and Private Pirate DVD they've watched, as well as almost every Wicked and a good portion of the Adam & Eve and VCA titles, all of which are hardcore since they show penetration, I have to take a lot of offense at that remark. It's small minded, or perhaps better put as no-minded, remarks like that which are chasing the people who like a little plot with their porn away. [Link]
scipio Senior Member 1901 Posts 2/00	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 12:31PM Though I've largely said my piece in these two threads, there's a final(?) thing I want to bring up for now. I can think of at least one of the "bad boys" of these forum threads that's a frequent reviewer and contributor to ADT in that capacity, as well as being quite knowledable and helpful to others when the porn of their choice is being discussed. I can't help but think that it'd be a shame to lose that contribution, both to ADT in general and to the forums because they were unable to lay off the snide remarks. What it comes down to is that no-one really gives a fuck, truly about the snide remarks. It's boring and unneccecary, especially when everyone already knows what the poster thinks. Better to keep the good stuff posted and not waste the time to type the snide stuff, since the snide stuff will just get the posters booted. I mean, even Spesedy had some interesting things to say and discuss when he could get his mind off that particular performer. If he'd kept to the good stuff it'd be one more person posting good stuff. Instead he's gone and life moves on. There's no "blaze of glory" to go out on anyway. Bullshit posts get deleted, (most people won;t even see them) Bullshit users get banned. Life goes on. Think about it. scipio [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 1:13PM Here's something I've found useful, even if in common with others, I forget my own advice once in a while. But here goes : You don't have to write out (post) everything you think! Sometimes we need to make sure we look before we leap, and if we have have nothing to contribute by posting, let's stay silent! [Link]

Author

Post

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:07AM

I hope people have been reading this poll.

We are considering splitting this first forum into Porn Talk and Extreme Porn Talk. Threads like "Attention Double Penetration Lovers" would obviously go in the Extreme Porn Talk forum. This would leave room in Porn Talk for discussion of anime, classics, all girl movies, basically everything but DPs, DAPs, gapes, etc. Porn Talk will not be called couples porn talk because every porno without DPs is NOT couples porn.

Splitting the forum may not solve all the problems with squabbling and rude comments, but it's a start. The individuals who feel the need to post stupid comments on topics that don't interest them (ie when someone is asking about a vivid movie they consistently respond with vivid sucks) will be banned. Consider this the warning. Nobody has time to babysit.

I hope this appeases the "factions" and I hope people stop feeling the need to join a faction.

[Link]

RoccoFan
Member

337 Posts
2/02

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:19AM

Hi Steph,

I think this will mean 98% of people will have to spend time going between forums. You'll probably get duplicate posts and responses. I think it would be better to repremand the few than to inconvenience the many. It's just another forum you'll have to monitor.

Speaking as someone who's gotten out of line and has been spanked for it, it shouldn't take that much to get offenders in line. If they get out of hand then turn them off.

Boat Drinks!!!

RoccoFan
The Madman Cumeth!!

[Link]

snowden porn
Member

London
648 Posts
11/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:33AM

I agree with RoccoFan in that everyone will be switching between the two forums which could produce duplicate posts and responces.

But I'm more concerned about someone like me - I'm not keen on "couples porn", but in saying that I've never watched an Extreme Associates "circus acts" movie (or similar). I watched Euro Angels Hardball 3 and had to sell it after one viewing.

I like the stuff in-between i.e. True Anal Stories, Up your Ass series. Does that mean that I am to be relegated to the "Circus Acts Talk Forum" ?

I think its good to have everyone in the single main forum. That way we get views from all perspectives. If there is a thread like "New DAP/DPP release!!!" don't click on it if you don't want to! Just like I don't click on "VCA/VIVID news".

"Do you think we can make her asshole gape wide open so we can see her intestines?" - by Layla Jade in Lex the Impaler

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:32AM

Rocco - I thought you liked getting spanked? ;) Uh, 98%? Trust me when I say that the emails I get make clear that a lot of people, not just 2%, don't even want to see thread titles about multiple penetrations.

I agree with both your points. And I think a large portion of people here like the "in-between" stuff. Yet somewhow we're all being marginalized into extreme and couples factions.

If we aren't going to divide this forum, then the intentionally provacative (and I don't mean thought provacative) thread titles need to stop. There's a big difference between "VCA News" and "Attention Double Penetration Fans!!" - the second is clearly intended to offend rather than describe the contents of the thread. It could have easily be titled, "Caution: Your Azz Is In Danger 3 Just Released"

[Link]

HoustonDon
Member

Houston
561 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:33AM

Rocco, I think her idea makes a lot of sense. Consider that there's already about a dozen forums-each of which address a certain focus-and one more is not going to cause irreparable harm. One of you "extremists" can become the moderator, and therefore be empowered to set the tone of the forum as well. As both Drew and Steph have said, the vocal few (who truly are both vocal and few in number) have shown that they already participate in several of the forums so perhaps giving them a forum to vent on would help others feel comfortable joining in (again) on the main forum while y'all can concentrate on the new forum.

Snowden, that sounds good in theory but how often has someone posted something to the effect of "Vivid Sucks" in a thread where someone asked about the company? Personally, I think the problem isn't about Vivid sucking as much as the responses didn't follow through with a reason-just a hateful little response from a small-minded person. I think there'd be less chance of flame wars starting up when someone in the extreme forum started making idiotic claims about "vanilla" or "couples" porn too.

Topics of broader interest could still be posted to the main forum while topics primarily of interest to the extremist crew would be put in the new forum. As for names, Steph's very fair about not stepping on toes. She isn't calling it the "Circus Act Sex" forum, she's calling it what some of you have called it.

[Link]

Evil_Rip
Senior Member

Power overwhelming
1117 Posts
12/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:49AM

"I will not let this republic be split in two, my negotiations will not fail." --Palpatine

[Link]

RoccoFan
Member

337 Posts
2/02

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 12:37PM

I just wrote a response to Steph and HD that was lost. I'm too disheartened to type it over...here's the gist..

Overly sensitive people shouldn't be kowtowed to.

The vast majority of us with "acquired tastes" are not rude and should not be banished to the nether reaches of the forum.

"Attention Double Penetration Fans!!" is not meant to offend...."Weak-kneed limp-dicks who watch Vivid DVD's need not read this!"....now that is meant to offend.

Rude, childish people won't change because of a forum seperation....they are always a click away.

Boat Drinks!!!!!

RoccoFan
The Madman Cumeth!!

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 12:55PM

Rocco - why do you view adding a new forum as a banishment?

We're not catering to overly sensitive people, but many of us are tired of this first forum being dominated by a sect of multiple penetration fans. Creating the Porn Extreme forum could easily be viewed as catering to the extreme porn contigent.

That's where we differ. Perhaps my opinion is skewed by the contents of the first post in that thread - but it seems to me that the title is intended to make people take sides in this imaginary battle.

[Link]

HoustonDon
Member

Houston
561 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 12:56PM

Rocco, I lost a long post or two myself this week so I can sympathize.

While I agree in spirit about "overly sensitive" people, I also see the borderline behavior that has been reducing participation by the mainstream crowd too. Apparently, some of the extremist crowd is quite guilty of being overly sensitive as well (want a few threads?). No matter, I suppose the alternative to another forum would be banning 3 or 4 people. Would you prefer that?

Acquired tastes: We all have acquired tastes. It's not about what acts you prefer to watch but about your behavior towards those who don't "see the light" as you do. When a few of you make claims regarding "vanilla porn" or "couples porn", you drive a wedge into the community. Maybe a few of you would do well to chat amoungst yourselves via email to figure out if you can be self-policing to a better degree. In any case, one more forum won't harm anything, will it?
(heck, I'd almost like to see a "reviews" forum where topics relating solely to reviews could be focused on-it's not about dividing the community as much as it's about allowing more freedom within a smaller realm)...

[Link]

NuTTy BuDDy
Member

133 Posts
4/02

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:03PM

"I like the stuff in-between i.e. True Anal Stories, Up your Ass series. Does that mean that I am to be relegated to the "Circus Acts Talk Forum" ?"

[Link]

scipio
Senior Member

1901 Posts
2/00

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:23PM

While I can see the PoV that Steph and Drew have here, I'm not a real fan of the idea myself.

Simply because while a lot of stuff is easily-placed, there's a lot of in-between stuff that would potentially fall through the cracks.

For example, where would we place a lot of the European stuff? And yes I'm talking about some of Private's stuff, obviously their Superfuckers, etc go in the extreme forum, but what about their plotted stuff (ie Private Gold/Black Label) that often has DPs, etc. Even worse is something like The Private Penthouse, which is a "soft" take on the regular Private formula, but still features DPs and the rest. Then there's the various comps, featuring scenes from all of the above..

despite me using Private as an example, it's not the only one. There's the Marc Dorcel stuff distributed by Wicked in the States. Again, plotted porn featuring DPs and all the rest. Not to mention DPs and anal being pretty common even amongst your standard run-of-the-mill US productions these days? (do any new movies NOT feature at least one anal?) Where do we draw the "extreme" line?

I have to say, that people not wanting to even see titles mentioning DPs seems strange to me, considering the genre of the forum we're all playing in.

I have to say that this is the mature, intelligent response to take from posters.

Now I'll be quite frank: If someone is trolling a vivid thread with "vivid suxors" then are they really the type of people that need to be posting?

My personal opinion is this:~

Don't split the ADT forum.

Have a little "rules-set" in small font above the list of forums, mentioning that flamers, trollers will NOT be tolerated at all, and will be banned, fast.

Give trollers one warning, after that, ban them. This webpage is not a democracy. - Play like an adult or not at all. If someone can't hold their tongue in regards to trolling or insults, (especially after a warning) then it's their own bad luck.

Don't like threads about DAP's? Fine, don't read them.
Hate Vivid? Fine, skip their threads.

When debate comes up, as it surely will, if posters can remember to act like adults (which we should all be to even be -in- this site) then it can be fine. This means "I don't like vivid stuff because yadda yadda yadda" posts are one thing while "vivid sux, bro. Why would you watch that shit? U must be a lamr"
are another.

I think this can be taken care of in this way, without too much hassle. In the past I've seen ..questionable posts in other forums that I would have jumped into, but since "my" forum is the Int.Shopping one I've been loath to step on another Mod's toes. I'd gladly volunteer to help out in this forum as well if it's wanted or needed.

Well, that's -my- opinion..

Time for people to grow up here methinks.

scipio

[Link]

Phallusee
Deactivated User

61 Posts
9/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:31PM

Great strategy, Steph! This should effectively weed out those of us who post to shock, offend, titilate, disturb, disgust, etc. for our own amusement. Because you'll be stealing our fire by relegating our antics to a "ghetto" board. What'll be the point, then? You are the Rudy Guiliani of this forum!

Cheers!

[Link]

Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 1:36PM

I like the idea of another forum, at least as an experiment. I see potential for it to work well as a place for posts in a different spirit. I don't see "sex acts" as a dividing line. Rather, it is your perception of them. If you want to discuss Straight to the A, and ask if it was any good, and if there was a problem with playing it, and so on, you could ask where you feel more comfortable. But if you specifically wanted to know all about the sex acts, and where you could find more scenes of this or that actress getting DPed, you could ask on the extreme board, among people most likely to know the answer.
It sounds a bit chaotic, but I strongly believe that after a few days, people would find the area in which they are comfortable, and gravitate there. A post that might be out of place on one board would fit in on the other, even if they are about the same thing (anal, for example), but written in a different spirit.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8011 Posts
9/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 2:41PM

Thanks for the great example of posts that we would rather not have.

[Link]

YogaGrrl
self-removed user

757 Posts
12/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 3:11PM

I can see pros and cons both ways, but I slightly favor the split, for the same reasons that Speelie has already mentioned. The Adult DVD Talk forum currently contains over 20,000 posts. It encompasses such a broad range of topics that it would probably benefit from a little reorganization. As a reviewer, I also agree with HoustonDon's idea of creating a separate "Review" forum.

Obviously, this is going to involve more work for the moderators, who will have to make some judgment calls about moving threads. But as a member who likes many styles of porn, I don't feel that a split would inconvenience me in the least. It only takes a couple of mouse clicks to switch between forums. No big deal.

[Link]

BIGmike
B-I-G-m-i-k-e

2335 Posts
3/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 3:21PM

-Great idea, I don't care what any one here says, types, or whatever about me. But some people get intimidated easily, so a few comments and then you don't see any more of them, which isn't right.

If we can't respect others opinions, thoughts, ideals, or preferences, then why bother to have a forum?

My understanding of this forum is to get information, to talk with studios and get information on releases, to talk about anything ADULT, and to help others out (inform them about potential problem discs, to point people in the right direction of what they are looking for, etc...) Am I right or am I wrong?

[I can't believe that this forum is solely for excluding others who don't share your beliefs.]

---BIGmike, over and out!---

[Link]

P-Knuckle
Member

309 Posts
11/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 3:32PM

I think this is a brilliant idea. I would also love to be the forum moderator but am to busy in by personal/professional life; plus my history of being a obnoxious idiot can't help.

A seperate forum would hopefully cut down on people saying 'vivid sucks' in vivid info topics and the like.

'Consider that there's already about a dozen forums-each of which address a certain focus-and one more is not going to cause irreparable harm.'
houstondon

Right on! We have a gay forum, lets have a extreme porn forum. The gonzo/extreme market is much different and deserves a different forum. This will make everyone more happy. A new forum that is more acute to the issues and questions asked by postees can only be more satisfying for all of us. I know I will post and read both seperate forums if it exists.

Adultdvdtalk moderators, please seriously consider splitting the forum. Thanks for listening.

[Link]

anal_fan
Member

104 Posts
12/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:11PM

Lets face it, i'm sure EVERYONE who will read the "Adult DVD Talk" forum will also read the "Extreme Forum" so why seperate the two? A person has the option of viewing a thread titled: "DP's,DAP's, Gapes", just like that person has the option of buying a movie that contains this subject matter.
It seems to me that most of the discussion here is of the gonzo genre, which does consist of alot of anal antics.

We're not catering to overly sensitive people, but many of us are tired of this first forum being dominated by a sect of multiple penetration fans.
-steph

granted this is your forum (and a great one it is), but why be tired of specific adult discussion? obviously it is a "hot" topic, nothing to really get upset over. I do agree that personal attacks are wrong, and criticizing ones viewing habits is wrong, thats one great thing about porn, there is something for everyone!! and no ones going to change anothers mind.

[Link]

Whiplash the suave incubus
Member

112 Posts
6/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:22PM

A bad and shocking idea. Just suppose what will happen if the true perverts of this board are left alone in a forum of their own with none of the normals left to check them. It will turn into a stinking pit of insults, recommended rape fantasies, insanity, rantings...and Beelzebub and his grandma' drunk dancing on the table.

I agree with RoccoFan and I've always found the pig-posts of mr. Phallusee very entertaining.

I'm very stupid and I never realized there were factions on this board and that some has been offended by the bad guys of this forum. Since I like n-y porn I must be among the baddies and if I've ever offended anyone I apologize.

Nothing is like a hearty row between friends and some rudeness might just be spicy.

[Link]

bono-ONE

All-Star Member

SAMCRO
8571 Posts
8/00

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:23PM

I have been posting at this site for almost two years and have yet to see anything really really bad go down, maybe a few instances but those are so rare. I have on many occasions give the to this site for the free discussion and general positive atmosphere of this site for discussing adult material. As opposed to a site like RAME where flame wars are much more prevalent this site tends to have a broad and varied discussion of porn and I would say the vast majority of discussions are posted with thought out opinions by all involved. I don't necessarily agree with the opinions expressed but I do respect the persons right to express it as long as they give what most people would consider to be a well thought out and expressed reason for it and not just a "Vivid Sucks" comment. If I have said that and might have then I too need to give a reason for why I say that. Now as for starting a forum for Extreme Porn I think that is a fine idea since that is probably the niche I like best. I like that type of porn best and I base this on the "Down the Hatch" series of which there are several varieties from Anabolic/Diabolic and then other companies like Private and Evil Angel make the gonzo porn I like to watch. I don't dislike couples porn or features porn as much as I don't watch them because they don't include the type of action the series from Anabolic or Private contain. Not to say these companies like Vivid or Wicked don't make good porn because they do or they wouldn't make the kind of money they do. It seems these type of companies make the films which stress some type of storyline over the aggressive sex which you see in a Lewd Conduct scene. So having two forums separted to discuss each kind of porn seems like a fine idea as long as Steph and Drew want to put the extra work into doing it or if they just want to clean out the people who want to just flame with no reason and keep the forum the way it is then that is fine too. I would suggest maybe calling a new forum Gonzo porn instead of Extreme or Circus porn-- that term I really hate. I would love to volunteer to be a moderator for such a forum but with a Webtv I don't think I could do the proper moderation but I know I would watch what others said and would voice my dislike if I saw something not appropriate or better yet just email the person making the offending remark and asking them to please show a little more class. This forum is a goldmine for the adult community and we seem to get great involvement from stars like Tina and Kimi, owners/ studio people like Tricia and David Crawford, and great reviewers like Houston, Astro, and Rog occasionally. So I vote yes for a Gonzo forum.

Let me clarify I think both Vivid and Wicked film some great sex scenes they just don't film it consistently like they do at Anabolic or Evil Angel. Like I said the storyline takes up a lot of scene time so you might get less time seeing the girl give a blowjob and often the cumshots are not of the facial variety or if it is on the face you see a lot of pushouts of the cum and in the Anabolic or Evil Angel scenes the cum seems to stay in or near the girls mouth and you see more playing with the cum than I recall seeing in a Vivid scene. Now I have seen some great gonzo porn from Wicked-- the Laure Sainclair movies from Marc Dorcel which Wicked releases are usually very good showing the gonzo stuff and they do tend to include a storyline with the sex so I have always tended to like Wicked moreso than Vivid.

Edited by - bono-ONE on Apr 9 2002

[Link]

RoccoFan
Member

337 Posts
2/02

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:25PM

Everyone,

If this split were done in the spirit of providing another forum for different views, then fine. The spirit of the split is one of.."lets get rid of the trouble makers". If that's the case, and I really think it is, then your problem will not be solved and we'll be at it again in another three months.

You have to weed out the trouble makers. People who just want to talk about the quality of an oral gangbang scene or the directorial quality of an anal scene have been doing so and will continue. When you make a split what are you gonna have, one group that writes.."I think Lex was so polite when he ejaculated on the pretty young ladies stomach"..and another forum for people who write...."I love the way Lex pounded that little blonde bitch within and inch of her fucking life, but he bitched out when he only jizzed on her belly instead of making her eat the goo". Think about this people...really stop and think about the feelings that are driving this.

The one forum format allows people to get a full range of views. The heart of the matter is decency vs. rudeness. Saying you like to see big butt black women get fucked in the ass isn't rude. Telling someone they're a jerk for liking that is. Find the people who do the latter and weed them out! Splitting the group will not solve that problem. Only weeding out the rude will.

Boat Drinks!!!!!

RoccoFan
The Madman Cumeth!!

[Link]

NuTTy BuDDy
Member

133 Posts
4/02

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:38PM

^^^ I Thought that Made Perfect Sense & I'm not against a Extreme Content Forum, No Inconvience for me, But... I don't think it will Solve any Problem(if there is one that Big)

[Link]

Gabriel Nine
Senior Member

Firecracker
1273 Posts
8/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:40PM

It's unfortunate, Steph, that you feel this way. I must confess that I wasn't really aware of a problem till I read the thread about Latin Psycho etc, now closed. I thought it was a heated, but entertaining little debate, though it got wearing after a while.

I am not sure about splitting it in the way you suggest. Maybe you could have an all out unmoderated "bearpit" forum where anything goes.

Perhaps on the other hand people could genuinely respect other's right to differ, rather than just saying they do. That seems to be one of the problems with that previously mentioned thread.

Perhaps "Adult DVD Talk" could be only about DVDs and attendant matters such as release dates, cast, quality issues and so on. Then the separate forum could be about the CONTENT.

From my POV, I actually kinda liked things the way they were. I don't want to read about "couples" porn (whatever the hell that really is) or "extreme" porn exclusively. I don't read the threads about Vivid etc, and I rarely read the ones about DPP etc.

So what am I suggesting? Uhm, let me get back to you on that...

[Link]

Gabriel Nine
Senior Member

Firecracker
1273 Posts
8/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:46PM

Re-reading some other suggestions, I can't see how you can split it on subject, given that people can't even agree on the definitions.

[Link]

-lunacy-
Senior Member

1081 Posts
4/00

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:46PM

Steph my luv, for once we disagree.

I don't think the forum should be split.

It's a porn forum, we discuss porn, all types. If someone is so sensitive they can't even read a thread title that mentions something they personally don't like, then they shouldn't be here.

As far as the dingleberries that cannot play nice, warn them once then ban them. The rules of play are simple, and most members are good about observing them. If one or two can't, dump them.

I think it was HDon that said it...the forum is not a democracy. I know your a darling and just want everyone to place nice but IMHO it's time to take the gloves off sister and kick some tushy!

[Link]

qrop
Member

163 Posts
8/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 4:59PM

I think is a great idea and Scipio as the moderator of the new forum will be great too, ....bu the name will be a little comfusing because a porn company has the same title "Extreme" why not "Euro Porn Forum", ...one more thing,maybe this is a silly question but if somebody is talking about a Private new release that he just saw,in the regular forum,..will be ok to ask that person an specific question about a specific sex act (anal,dp)? that for instance Michael Wild might be doing in that DVD in Particular or legit questions like that will not be allowed out of the new "extreme"forum. .....Disclaimer: I am NOT trying to offend anyone with my questions,just trying to clarify what everyone is talking about.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14595 Posts
3/02

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 7:31PM

I tried to post this and got informed my password was invalid, so if this is a duplicate please forgive me.
-----------------------------------------------------------
A forum is a public meeting place for the exchange of ideas. It seems to me that what is being proposed here is to break the forum up into clubs where like-minded people can go to agree with each other. Consider the possibility that, even in porn, more may be learned by an exchange of dissimilar views than by hanging out exclusively with people who agree with you. Perhaps you will hear views that are offensive to you, but in a forum their expression is still legitimate. If you decide you don't care for a discussion, move on. If you feel someone is trying to hijack your discussion, ask them to start their own.

Having said that, as moderator, Steph does have the right to set the rules of debate, and I agree with BigMike that banishment is appropriate for those who refuse to follow them. I just hope everyone bears in mind that, lacking personal contact, the intent of the author is something that we inject into the written word; or, in the immortal words of P. Ballswick Wad, "Remember crew..you're only where you think you are!" the Pagfeek Papers

Hardware

(Sorry, I just had to get that in! (PAF))

[Link]

Sbando Boy
Euro Babe Magnet

1839 Posts
6/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 8:07PM

Splitting the Forum in two would be very bad, but only for the people (or some of the people) who have been victims of the trolls' attacks, not for the trolls themselves.
Steph came to the conclusion that we have to keep threads , and so contents , apart to avoid the fighting and the not going anywhere anymore feel of the main Forum.
I want to feel safe every time I log into ADT, I don't want a personal haven.
The problem I have with these younger and more aggressive posters is not about their remarks or about their, in the end, harmless and childish trolling: it's the fact the *there's no debate anymore!* No comments are posted, no thoughts, no buying info (they kept reviewing dvd'd that wouldn't even load in their players). A new Rocco comes out, or a new Nacho, or whatever, and they monopolize the discussion. You try to insert a couple of comments about the movie or the movie-maker and *they don't give a damn!*.
How many others would have contributed with their thoughts but felt intimidated by the aggressive way these people dealt with everything that wasn't their hype?
So if you consider that what I like and collect is what you call "Europorn", then you can safely bet that the only way I've left to discuss these subject with decent people, is to mail them privately.
Another point:
Charlie, one of the quietest and most respected ADT's posters and reviewers is the resident expert on bukkake and fisting.
Gabriel's favorite movie is Animal Trainer 4.
RonK is a fine esample of how someone can be a fan of "extreme" acts and still be able to post interesting comments about them.
Not to mention, of course, my personal friends, some of which are obsessed with stuff like dap or whatever they call them, but are some of the nicer people around here.
So the distinction IS NOT between couples vs. freak show acts.
As I've said, these little trolls are harmless. They're like those mean kids in High School who would make fun of you because you had separated parents or something like that.
Now I knew what to answer them and how to treat them.
It's just that I don't care anymore, 'cos now I'm a grown up
(and then some) and I simply don't care anymore.
Please, my dear, dear friends Steph and Drew: don't take something away from me. And don't let the others think that, somehow, the trolls won.

[Link]

delijoe
Member

29 Posts
10/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:23PM

I think there should be seperate forums. There's a reason why the mainstream porn fans don't post on this forum, it's not only because they feel intimidated, but the posts about anything not considered "extreme" are usually ignored. If you split the forums, you'll not only allow the intimidated people to post, but attract new posters who would have a choice to post a topic in a more narrow category. Personally I would have an "extreme" forum, a "mainstream" forum, a "lesbian" forum, and possibly an "anime" forum.

[Link]

delijoe
Member

29 Posts
10/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:26PM

And a response to the poster who was talking about the "in-between" stuff...I would think a feature that might contain a DP or anal still would be in the main forum (such as the private stuff he mentioned). The extreme is the rocco/evil angel stuff that FOCUSES on anals, DPs, and other extreme acts.

[Link]

tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:33PM

I totally agree with lunacy.

I know it will probably mean more work for the moderators, but I would prefer to see the forum stay as is, but with people having better manners.

And many people have already made the good point of: if you see a topic you don't want to read, don't read it.

My views are partly selfish: where do I post info about a Buttman title? In the non-extreme section, because of all the tease, or the extreme section because it might have some anal sex in it?
It gets more confusing when I get to Rocco. Although some women like his DVDs, I wouldn't (in my mind) call it "couples porn". But some of the extreme folks here will most likely soon get bored of even Rocco, as he hasn't been shooting a whole lot of double or triple penetrations.

Sorry if I sound frustrated, but as I said in another thread, well... I am.

I am very happy that I work for a range of directors as diverse and talented as Jules Jordan, John Stagliano, John Leslie, Joey Silvera, Christoph Clark, Rocco Siffredi, and Randy West. I enjoy my job, and I enjoy discussing my job and thoughts with others.

While some may think that the recent threads and posts from certain individuals which read (paraphrase - Evil Angel rules! Vivid sucks! If it doesn't have dap, it isn't good porn!) would be flattering to me, they're not.
I'm thrilled that there are people out there who are so intensely dedicated to some of the DVDs which do come from Evil Angel and Anabolic and companies like that. However, I am truly embarassed by the assault that has been taken on people who don't share those views of desiring pushing the envelope so far.

As I've said before, I love the friendly atmosphere of ADT. Well, it hasn't been so friendly anymore.

[Link]

ELNINO
Member

41 Posts
12/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:34PM

All good forums change from time to time. This forum might need a little change and if you are losing members because of a material that could be put in a seperate area why not do it. I don't want Gay Porn post in GD so I don't see why everyone is crying about a need change and there might be some good in a small change. The changes can always be undone.

[Link]

anal_fan
Member

104 Posts
12/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:39PM

this is kind of getting crazy, this is all going to come down to definitions what is extreme? What is mainstream? seems to me that 75% of the posts on this forum are "extreme" topics

There's a reason why the mainstream porn fans don't post on this forum, it's not only because they feel intimidated, but the posts about anything not considered "extreme" are usually ignored.
-delijoe

maybe extreme is actually mainstream?, just a thought.
maybe the success of this forum is built on "extreme" topics. Maybe we all wouldnt be here now if there was no "extreme" topics to discuss?
I always thought the purpose for a forum was for discussion/pros/cons. If you ask me forums were built for questions/answers/discussion/argument, thats all i've ever seen on any message board forum.

[Link]

Saki
At-Large

2087 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:50PM

Tricia wrote:

That's pretty much why I stopped reading RAME years ago. I am truly amazed at how fanatical some people can be over pornography. It makes me wonder whether these people are like this in real life.

The real reason why I keep coming back to this site is because of the community. The reason it's a community is because people care about it. Once we cease to care about it, then you might as well just save the aggravation and just shut down the forum now.

While I appreciate the sentiment that this should be a place to freely express one's opinions, I don't think that should be a license to insult, provoke, or forward one's own agenda. I don't think there's anything wrong in Drew or Steph laying down rules since they pay the bills. Those that don't like that can try to create their own community rather than trying to hijack one.

I always knew this day would come. Ignoring the problem isn't going to make it better, and certainly encouraging it by legitimizing it isn't going to either.

From someone who's seen just about every type of porn there is, I'm of the opinion that "extreme porn" tends to attract the type that doesn't really care about what anyone else thinks. That doesn't mean that everyone or even most of the people who identify with that genre are that way, but when you really look at it, it's not a lot of people who are causing this uproar, is it?

- Saki

Edited by - Saki on Apr 9 2002

[Link]

delijoe
Member

29 Posts
10/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:51PM

Well...here's the top bestsellers on Adultdvdempire.com:

1. Briana Loves Jenna
2. Fade To Black
3. Island Fever
4. Flesh Hunter
5. Cum Drippers 2
6. Young Devon
7. Where The Boys Aren't #14
8. Just Over Eighteen #2
9. Cum Swapping Sluts #1
10. Ass Worship 2

half on the titles on this list are not extreme, and there are 3 vivid titles on here. Top 3 are as "vanilla" as they come. I don't agree, there are other (smaller) forums out there where there are many more posts about vivid/wicked stuff. So in essense the extreme fans have taken over this forum, and the only recourse IMO is to split the forums.

[Link]

Saki
At-Large

2087 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 10:58PM

Well, of course anything's possible. But the AdultDVDTalk existed more than two years before you registered here, anal_fan, and there were plenty of people who participated well before the merits of Rocco or Rob Black were discussed.

rec.arts.movies.erotica seemed to do just fine too. As a matter of fact, the organized pornography industry did quite well for more than 20 years before "Rough Sex" and the like came along. And I'll bet everything I own that "vanilla porn" commands the majority of sales worldwide.

So just because the recent topics here are "extreme" that necessarily means that's what the majority of people like?

- Saki

[Link]

Oneloa
Member

848 Posts
2/00

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:07PM

My 2 cents...

I don't think we should split the forums either. I'm surprised that someone could be offended by the title "Attention Double Penetration Fans!!". This is an adult site. If someone is offended by that title alone, then maybe they shouldn't be on an adult site. Or just don't read that topic. There are several topics I don't read, simply because I don't have any interest in them.

I just feel that there are too many gray areas in porn to divide them appropriately. There are some movies that aren't "extreme" but may have a DP in it. Also, what's extreme to one person isn't extreme to someone else.

I too come here for the community and the friendliness. Making comments or posts just to offend people is more than immature. I'm sorry that a few people have to fuck things up for others. But, I agree with Lunacy... ban those that cause the problems.

- [ invalid url ]

[Link]

Bill

All-Star Member

5334 Posts
6/00

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:09PM

I'm not sure how splitting the forum stops the "This is what I like, so you must be crazy to like something else" type of arguments. It just seems that they would now exist on two different forums. Would they be settled with "Hey this thread is in the "insert forum here" forum, therefore "insert forum here" opinion must be correct?

I think that we are discovering that the "mainstream" vs. "extreme" debate is joining religion and politics as unwinnable debates. How can you win a debate essentially says "I like this, therefore you can't like that".

Steph & Drew, if you really want to create a separate forum, maybe it should be some type of a "Debate" or "Opinions" type of forum. Whenever a thread turns into something like the the "Nacho Vidal" thread turned into, then a moderator can move it to that forum. At least the definition of what belongs in this forum would be something that most people could agree upon.

This would make it very easy for people to avoid the threads that get heated.

Edited by - Bill Broderick on Apr 9 2002

[Link]

delijoe
Member

29 Posts
10/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:14PM

I think the debate is whether so-called vanilla porn can be discussed when your always shouted down or ignored. The problem with that post "attention all DP fans." was the comments about hating vanilla porn, "no vanilla porn, what we all hate." When I read that, I see that the forum's been taken over and a split into categories would really help. If there's an extreme forum, people could post that they hate vanilla porn all they want, because it won't be discussed in that forum.

[Link]

Zatoichi
Member

Sunny California
414 Posts
1/01

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:19PM

What has been happening here at ADT of late is symptomatic of what has happened with every other online forum I've ever been a part of; a large influx of new members, followed by an immediate increase in both the number & severity of the flame wars that erupt. I had hoped that ADT would be immune to this Balkanization, but it appears that was naive.

I came here because of the free, open & respectful discussions that I saw taking place. Lately, that seems to be in danger of being lost. Sending the offending parties to their own forum isn't going to help-I've seen it tried, along with the idea of a separate, unmoderated forum (total chaos).

From a personal standpoint, I don't want to have to visit another forum simply to discuss material that someone has deemed too "extreme" for the main forum. I mainly buy gonzo titles these days, but my collection ranges from Seymore to Rocco to Jane Hamilton to Andrew Blake.

It'd be wonderful if this board could rely on the wisdom of its members to be self-policing in regard to their posts; unfortunately, as with any other collection of individuals, it ain't going to happen.

I know that being a mod on any board is a demanding, thankless task. But it's the mods who can restore order here. Estabish a code of conduct that is clearly understood by everyone. Violators get warned. If they can't clean up their act, then they get hammered. Once a few of their buddies get the ax, the remaining trolls, flamers, etc. may see the light. One board that I belong to lists the names of banned users in a separate section as a warning to those with no self-control.

In short: I agree 1000% with lunacy. Keep the forums the way they are, just remind people that it's not a democracy around here.

[Link]

Saki
At-Large

2087 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 9 2002 : 11:23PM

Much better than I could of said it...or rather, said it! And kudos for using "Balkanization" in a porn-related discussion!

- Saki

[Link]

astroknight

Questionable Moderator

Tastes so good...
4187 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 12:41AM

Well, this has taken quite a bit of thought. At first I slightly favored the split, but after thinking about it quite a bit, I'm now favoring leaving it the same. To me, there's just too much grey area. Like somebody said earlier (sorry, it's late and I'm too lazy to go back through 40 or 50 responses), there's the Private stuff, Marc Dorcel, and even Buttman that can fit nicely in either one. Plus, tastes grow and change, and every once in a while we get curious and look for something new. An extreme, or perhaps better put would be "Raincoater Forum" can be very intimidating for people looking to first experiment a little. I first started with a couple Buttman features after hearing so much about them, and both Buttman's Ultimate Workout[/i[ and Buttman's European Vacation are two of the first titles I recommend to couples looking for something that either want something a little different, or something fun, or something without the silly plots and bad acting. I agree that "Attention Double Penetration Fans" was a boneheaded title that sounds like it's meant to shock. It could have just as easily been titled to do with the movie title or even abbreviating it to DP would have helped, but putting it like that looks like just one of those problems that have chased the mainstream porn crowd away.
More than anything, I think a good start would be with a little spring cleaning. I think with about six or eight really good swift kicks in the @$$ out the door would solve many of the problems here, and make this all a moot point.

[Link]

HoustonDon
Member

Houston
561 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 1:06AM

Wow-I come back from work and look at all the related discussion in a few threads. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that despite my hope that the few "problem children", for lack of a better term, could be saved by giving them their own forum, a number of you have changed my mind. It's evident that a handful have decided that they will use any excuse to hijack various threads and make ADT a less fun place to be, no matter what concessions are made.

There's only one solution, as distasteful as it seems to a supporter of the free speech such as myself:
AXE THEM!

scipio: 01:23:26 PM: Agreed!

Phallusee: 01:30:53 PM: Thanks for proving my point.

YogaGrrl: 03:11:11 PM: As long as become the moderator, I like it!

anal_fan: 04:11:26 PM: I think she's tired because of the way so many unrelated threads get hijacked by the vocal few. Getting rid of them, if they continue their ways, will solve that.

Whiplash: 04:21:40 PM: Not all of share the same sense of community. Particularly some of the newer people never learned the rules by which we play nice. When they are gone, most of the troubles will go with them. Oh, and you're not stupid...

bono-ONE: 04:23:30 PM: One of the things I find distasteful about RAME is that the moderators play favorites way too often. I stopped posting there after getting cut off several times without a chance to respond to some juvenile remark directed my way. I like their website though.
I don't think the real problem has been the sex acts as much as the contempt the vocal few have for the rest of us. That's gonna change-I can almost promise you that their rein of terror is almost over. Watch! Thanks for the kind words though.

RoccoFan: 04:24:48 PM: Agreed!

Gabriel Nine: 04:39:58 PM: Bearpit...I like it! Would you moderate?

Sbando Boy: 08:07:00 PM: This was the argument that swayed my opinion the most (well, along with Tricia's). Well Said!

tricia_devereaux: 10:33:11 PM: Lunacy is so right, agreed. I'm a major fan of your companies releases but I draw the line at shilling (as some have thought they were doing). You and I have always been in agreement about the fanatics who thought they were helping you and always will be. BTW, Ias far as I'm concerned, you can post anything in any forum you like. Hugs!

ELNINO: 10:33:46 PM: The Gay forums often have some of the best written stuff. I'm straight but I check them out all the time.

anal_fan: 10:38:55 PM: You're right, it's not the sex acts, it's the few who need to leave. I wish them well in whatever other forums they screw up. I won't bore you with market demographics but if you truly think "extreme" porn is the best selling, you really need to take a long look. Thanks for the input though.

Saki: 10:50:08 PM: IIRC, you warned us a long time ago regarding "this day" coming. We always knew you were right but hoped against all hope that the community would squash any problem makers before they got out of hand. As always, I defer to your wisdom in these matters.

delijoe: 10:51:29 PM: Good idea! You should also point out that Empire has the lion's share of the online porn market-I'm told something like 75%. I agree with your later comments too.

Zatoichi: 11:18:33 PM: I moderate an unrelated board and noticed that a couple of members are the only problem. They are kept on a moderated status where they need every message approved before posting. The leash is the only thing that keeps them in line. ADT's too big to bother with them so maybe the moderators should start editing the abusive stuff-maybe adding that the person is in violation and is a jerk-a few times before erasing them.

Astro: 12:41:24 AM: In my email converstaions with another, lurk only, member, we have been referring to the problem children as the "Foolish Five". There may be more but it seem to be 5 members that cause 98%+ of the problems. At least one of them is a marginal contributor in my favorite area and I have thought it'd be a shame to lose him but if push came to shove, I'd send him on his way too (you had him nailed elsewhere). "More than anything, I think a good start would be with a little spring cleaning." Go get 'em tiger!

PS: I answered this way so that everyone knew where I stood in relation to all the comments. I like most of you a lot, a few of you a whole lot, and others I respect, if not like, so consider any ommissions an attempt to minimize my tendency to respond like a DarkMage review.

[Link]

Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 3:26AM

I don't know the best answer to the current troubles, but I am certain that I hope to see a situation in which more discussions of various topics are possible. I've been frustrated at watching my last few attempts to get a discussion going meet almost no response. Admittedly, they were somewhat narrow topics, such as "mysogyny vs. trying to provoke some response in a placid actress" and "keeping track of the appearances of the latest hot babes from Prague" but these are the sort of things I discuss with friends via private e-mail, and I hope to get more people involved in the discussion. I can talk endlessly about Euro girls and the philosophy of making movies of the Woodman/Clark.LeCastel/Nacho etc. type, and I want to believe that there are others who share this interest to a greater degree than simply wondering which actresses get DPed.

[Link]

Sbando Boy
Euro Babe Magnet

1839 Posts
6/01

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 4:02AM

Our private e-mails are only a further testament of how well this Forum works. Or better, of all the good things it can lead to outside of the everyday debate.
Your thread about misogyny was one of the most interesting and thought provoking of the first 3 months of 2002. As interesting were your comments about Nacho not being ready to pull it off as the new Rocco or your admirable effort (with a *little* help from your friends) to write this fantastic map (places, facts, names) of the Eastern European porn.
Silence is one thing. Many may have read and found the info priceless. Insults sometimes have the effect to overshadow the information, and while the blame is officially on the troll, the impression that a chance was wasted and that the thread was only another messy flame war is what stays in people's minds.

[Link]

scipio
Senior Member

1901 Posts
2/00

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 7:16AM

just delete this one.. I got confused by HD's post and replied to it thinking he was quoting me in chat.. which I found odd since I wasn't in a chat... carry on.

On a semi-related note, I could definately see seperate forums for technical DVD posts and for Review discussions. I remember the old tech posts between Bill Broderick, others and the Wicked, A&E authoring guys.. they were quite interesting at times. :)

Edited by - scipio on Apr 10 2002

[Link]

Steve K.
Deactivated User

840 Posts
11/01

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 8:24AM

Well I just wanted to chime in on this one - since I have been here since this site started. Although I went through 3 different screen names and my tough times here at ADT, but I think I am a mature typer now . I would like to see another forum called Extreme DVD Talk. It would really be cool then all the extreme/hardcore fans would be in one area and then the "vanilla" fans would be in another area. If that were to happen then of course you wouldn't see posts saying "Vivid Sucks", "VCA Sucks" becuase no hardcore/extreme fan buys those companies dvds.

Just my 2 cents

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 9:31AM

I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful comments. I have received more via email. Other people who don't want to post their thoughts here are also welcome to email me.

[Link]

astroknight

Questionable Moderator

Tastes so good...
4187 Posts
11/99

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 10:24AM

Thank you for yet another display of the idiocy we're talking about here.

As somebody who has enjoyed every Evil Angel and Private Pirate DVD they've watched, as well as almost every Wicked and a good portion of the Adam & Eve and VCA titles, all of which are hardcore since they show penetration, I have to take a lot of offense at that remark. It's small minded, or perhaps better put as no-minded, remarks like that which are chasing the people who like a little plot with their porn away.

[Link]

scipio
Senior Member

1901 Posts
2/00

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 12:31PM

Though I've largely said my piece in these two threads, there's a final(?) thing I want to bring up for now.

I can think of at least one of the "bad boys" of these forum threads that's a frequent reviewer and contributor to ADT in that capacity, as well as being quite knowledable and helpful to others when the porn of their choice is being discussed.

I can't help but think that it'd be a shame to lose that contribution, both to ADT in general and to the forums because they were unable to lay off the snide remarks.

What it comes down to is that no-one really gives a fuck, truly about the snide remarks. It's boring and unneccecary, especially when everyone already knows what the poster thinks. Better to keep the good stuff posted and not waste the time to type the snide stuff, since the snide stuff will just get the posters booted.

I mean, even Spesedy had some interesting things to say and discuss when he could get his mind off that particular performer. If he'd kept to the good stuff it'd be one more person posting good stuff. Instead he's gone and life moves on.

There's no "blaze of glory" to go out on anyway. Bullshit posts get deleted, (most people won;t even see them) Bullshit users get banned. Life goes on.

Think about it.

scipio

[Link]

Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Apr 10 2002 : 1:13PM

Here's something I've found useful, even if in common with others, I forget my own advice once in a while. But here goes : You don't have to write out (post) everything you think!
Sometimes we need to make sure we look before we leap, and if we have have nothing to contribute by posting, let's stay silent!

[Link]