Being a member of this community for almost a year, I have seen what has lead up to this problem. I think that a combination of both of the major ideas presented here could be the best action to the problem. The creation of a new Extreme Porn forum in conjunction with the banning of members that frequently can't behave themselves. I don't think that the creation of the new forum should be viewed as banishment since it isn't. Banishment would be if Steph or Drew emailed members telling them they could only post in the new forum and could not view and post in existing forums. Instead the creation of the new forum would allow for a more specific place for discussion of a genre of adult film that has caused a massive amounts of posts in the general forum. The creation of this new forum will probably not solve all the problems currently being experienced, but if the frequent problem makers are banned after being warned as well, I feel that most of the current problems will be eliminated. This way when people view the general forum they don't see that 75% of the posts are dealing with Extreme Porn and become afraid to post regarding a different topic.

As to which post should go where? I think a little common sense would go a long way into determining the proper location. For example, I think Tricia's posts would most likely be fine where she has been putting them but posts like "Has Actress X done any DAP?" would be best put in the new forum.

All communities have to evolve as they grow. It appears that this community has reached to point where it must evolve as well. The creation of the new forum can make ADT a pleasant place online again and help it remain the #1 online resource regarding adult oriented DVDs.

Sorry for coming into the discussion so late and possibly reiterating what has already been said, but as I said I just moved to a new home and as a result was unable to come online for a while and still wanted to be able to put my 2 cents in.

Flash

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ob-New Forum for Extreme Porn Talk? Aye.

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Can we stop this debate already. Drew and Steph make a decesion and the decent folks on the board will abide by it and continue to contribute. Even if you make the wrong decision and split the forum.

Get rid of the RUDE people!

Boat Drinks!!!

RoccoFan
The Madman Cumeth!!

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Spesedy was one of our most rational, intelligent posters whose tastes were also for the harder/extreme stuff, but we enjoyed friendly email exchanges as well. A perfect example of how our personal tastes in porn should not interfere or preclude dialogue with others - sometimes we can learn from each other. I miss him, and understand his frustration, but perhaps he will come back if the new forum is implemented. Spesedy and I were in total agreement, as we both enjoyed a rousing debate - heck, even a nice flame war from time to time keeps things exciting, though I do understand why they strive to keep this from happening.
For the record, I do think Scipio has him confused with someone else - I don't recall Spesedy being obsessed with anyone, or any one idea.

I've been torn about this issue, but I think perhaps the time has come. It's worth a try anyway, and it's not like it can't be undone, should the need arise. It is bound to attract more members from each end of the spectrum and everywhere in between, but the only reservation I have is this: there are many other forums here as well that are open to all. Given the high noise ratio from this group, which no doubt will increase in number, this could have a negative effect on the site as a whole. I think Phallusee's point about their shock value dropping in such a forum was dead on, but I don't suppose there is any way to contain them to just the main forum.

I personally don't care if someone enjoys watching midget lactating she-males fist each other - the problems arise because the fisting midget lactating she-male contingent tends to be an aggressive, rowdy bunch hellbent on increasing their ranks by intimidation and insinuation that any studio who doesn't produce fisting midget lactating she-male product in abundance is substandard, and anyone who doesn't find midget lactating she-males all that arousing are boring, vanilla, clueless porn consumers.

So, although I don't envy the moderators, and share Whiplash's vision of a seething pit of depraved wankers and assorted deviants "not that there's anything WRONG with that" when can we get started?

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Splitting is a dumb idea. Lets not get too carried away with catering to the 'sensitivities' of the porn loving community. Double penetration isn't any more extreme than a sloppy facial. Steph, while you may not be a fan of the double penetration, it doesn't make it extreme. It just means you prefer not to read it. You don't have to as banner headlines clearly indicate the contents of the thread.

P.S. Steph, I think your cute :)

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What is important to her and Drew is keeping the site and forums a friendly place for everybody. If you've been reading the threads, you have noticed that this friendliness that used to be an integral part of ADT, has been lacking lately. This has been commented on and noticed by almost everyone else.

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Another idea is to have a bunch of forums for each porn company. I would really like that and it would make search for topic I like really easy. Also some cookies would be nice so I don't have to login everytime would be sweet. you could have couples section too if there would be too many.

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Thanks for your reply. If your motive is to enhance the 'community' and etiquette of the site, offering forums for each specific fetish aint gonna do it. The only way to solve the problem is active moderation. I think this can be accomplished with minimal effort, without ostracizing the double penetration lover's community. I think we also need to be careful at what we unilaterally and whimsically label 'extreme'. In any case, I would hate to see the forums here splinter into a million and one different boards. It's hard keeping track of just one! I wish you lots of luck in whatever you decide.

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That aside, what is the objective of splitting the present forum into two forums? This is clearly a commercial site and Drew and Steph would like to get some return on their investment and rightly so. Participation in the site allows interested individuals to discuss adult material and access useful information. Will this split help the site become more viable and promote increased usage? If there are many potential members who would feel more comfortable with the split, and the split will increase the commercial viability of the site, then the decision is clear -- split the forum into 2 separate forums. Splitting the forum into two separate forums then serves the objective of increasing participation by members who would otherwise feel threatened by the so-called extreme group. If the reason is to provide a band-aid solution to the current flame wars, then the proposed solution will not resolve the matter, nor increase its commercial viability. In my opinion and experience, band-aid solutions rarely work. Not having inside information on the feelings of the silent majority, I cannot provide a conclusive answer. The solution to the flame war problem is to insist that all posters be considerate and not insult others at a personal level. Providing one's viewpoint, discussing a topic, providing information about questions, and critiquing problems all seem to be relevant to me as long as posters are civil and treat each other with respect. There is no place in this friendly forum for sniper attacks. The world has enough problems as is.

The current forum is getting big and receives more messages than some of the other forums in this site. Other splits might result in better dissemination of information. Increased dissemination of relevant information is, I believe, a goal of this site, and one that can provide it with commercial success. One possibility is to split the forum into two (or three) new forums. One new forum can deal with questions about talents, problems with dvd's, questions for industry insiders (one of the nice things I like with this site), questions for experts, and so on. I have been and will continue to be happy and willing to provide whatever expertise and knowledge I have that might help other members. A second forum can be about comments, discussions, unsolicited information, and so on. We can happily discuss the merits and demerits of a particular director, etc. We can even discuss whether the editor has been sufficiently double anally retentive (pun intended -- I had to get that in somewhere) in making sure that no mistakes were made. A possible third forum (I know I will get flamed for this) is a strictly video forum. Yes, this is a dvd talk site, but many manufacturers have not upgraded their production capabilities for simultaneous releases. I would guess that video still outsells dvd’s by a large margin for most companies solely because it is a more established format and has a larger base. While having a video forum may seem to detract from the mission of this site, such a move could increase its commercial viability if the site gets a commission from sales of video directed from its links.

Ultimately, the decision is for the administrators of the site. An "extreme" forum would not be a bad choice if it promotes increased inclusiveness. Otherwise, I think it is a bad idea. If the administrators decide to have separate "extreme" and "mainstream" forums, I would not like to see "extreme" forum titled Extreme. Extreme is a name of an adult video production company and such a name will be confusing. A better title might be niche versus mainstream, where niche could include lesbian, anime, weird stuff, hard stuff, and other ilks. I think that splitting this forum into separate forums is a good idea, but I would vote for a split along the lines of questions and commentaries, rather than niche versus mainstream. I think that would enhance the viability of this site and promote ease of usage.

I have some ideas about how to increase the viability of this site, but that topic would be better in another thread or even by e-mail. If others start such a thread, or if the administrators e-mail me, I will be happy to provide my thoughts and ideas.

Let us work toward making ADT the best possible adult site for everyone.

Cheers,

Ron

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/slaps self

scipio

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Someone earlier said "you learn from those who disagree with you" or something to that effect, and they were right. Once, I asked a question about Vivid's multi-angle production and had no idea that they were cheating, and "condensing" the film until those who dislike Vivid stepped up to tell me so. You learn something new every day. There's a chance the "mainstream" section could fall completely by the wayside if the forum was split. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Edited by - Thighmaster on Apr 11 2002

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They want dividing lines, trenches, disharmony and dissension. A splitted forum will be a triumph for them and they will enthusiastically start new flame wars. If the normals and the extremes stick together and continue with the civil, high-minded and intelligent tone of this board the trolls will have lost.

Just a thought

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After all, as a couple of people have pointed out now, if a split doesn't work the forums can always be re-combined.

The general tone and community spirit when I first stumbled upon the forum a while back was amazingly great. I’ve still never come across anything anywhere else that matched it, and the surprise is not that it’s fallen a little, but that it ever happened in the first place!

A final brief rant on forum etiquette generally:

Basically, nobody is at all interested in hearing people say that they don’t like something. Negativity is everywhere and if someone out there hates a person, a certain tv show, a movie, a puppy, a baby or the color red then as a general rule the rest of the world couldn’t care less. The easiest and most common thing in the world seems to be sitting back and complaining about things. There are millions of people out there who hate anything or everything, but the annoying thing is that they think the rest of us are interested in hearing about it! Please stop butting in to threads to tell us that you don't like something!

If people can’t restrain themselves then keeping things general rather than specific helps a lot, as does cutting out the words ‘you’ and ‘your’. Everyone, everywhere values their dignity. Think long and hard before attacking it.

Cheers!

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Boat Drinks!!!

RoccoFan
The Madman Cumeth!!

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cheers,

scipio

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Once we add new forums, we cannot just recombine forums - not an option.

A few issues...
We seem to be getting into what's the purpose of the forum. As I see it the forum accomplishes a few things - a sense of community, a channel of communication between the industry and the consumer, a place to get information.

No, we don't make money specifically on the forum. No website does. But of course the forum stands as a reason that people keep coming back - and as a community we all benefit. Together we are a buying force (whatever kind of porn you like.) We get sales commission, you get kickbacks and discounts.

I think we all agree that what's most important to the success of our community here is respect - that's showing respect for other member's opinions, respect for the producers, stars, and directors who take the time to post here, respect for reviewers, and moderators.

Another issue that I have personally, and this is an issue with porn as a whole not just this forum, is disrespect towards women. There seems to be a few people cheering on misogyny. That makes me question my involvement in a porn site. I will not let my personal issue affect how we run the forum, but I thought I should voice it.

--------- so the decision? ------

In conjunction with all of us showing more respect...

Perhaps a more generic splitting of forums is the better way to go right now. I think a Tech Forum is a fantastic idea. That will make it easy for producers to identify compatibility problems.

Now how do we break down porn talk into categories. A plausible categorization would be All Sex Porn and Feature Porn. But that still leaves some porn that doesn't fit anywhere.

I do not want to isolate direct questions for studios, as I want to encourage studio reps to participate in the forum as a whole, not just answer specific questions.

So how about some more ideas on genre-oriented forums?

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If the decision is to split, then I recommend these categories and descriptions:

1.The Haven or The Harem (For those interested in gangbangs, heavy anal content, minimal storyline/conversation, etc.)

2.Sex Fest (For those who want to discuss lighter fare such as couples, features, masturbation, and instructional DVD's)

3.Production (Discuss DVD production quality, converse with studio reps, cuming attractions, etc.)

Boat Drinks!!!

RoccoFan
The Madman Cumeth!!

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Anyway...

I'm not sure about genre oriented forums actually working very well, it could all become very atomised and confusing, but thinking back over the threads I've read, these are the ones that I remember coming up quite a bit.

• anal heavy


• oral heavy


• all girl


• interracial


• young/barely legal


• plotted features


• gonzo

But there's a lot of potential overlap between those, and you almost have to have an 'Other' forum for a genre based split.

Another way of approaching a split rather than genre would be following through from the 'Technical Forum' idea into other areas where you get a lot of threads. So something like:

• Technical Talk

  All the 'this disk doesn't work', 'what about widescreen?', 'recommend me a player', 'how is mastering done?' type threads.

• Review Talk

  Discussion about reviewing, and reviews. Solicitations for user feedback about reviews, that sort of thing.

• Recommendation Talk

  People recommending dvds, or people asking for recommendations for dvds. I guess this would include unrecommendation and disrecommendations of DVDs but I can't think how to include that in the title.

• Upcoming Release Talk

  All those threads about how you're going to rush out and buy 'Barely Cockless She-Male Blowjob Anals from Heck #23' just as soon as it hits the streets, and then how you've now received your copy and you just put in your player and it rocks .

• Philosophical Talk

  The 'So what's this porn stuff all about' threads. What exactly constitutes 'chemistry'? Crafting the perfect plot, misogny (sp?) in porn, and most importantly all threads discussing the fundamental nature of adultdvdtalk discussion forums...

• The Industry, Happenings and History Talk

  Star X joins company Y. Whose up for awards. Whatever happened to Z? Censorship issues, etc. etc. blah blah blah yackety shmackety

Third possiblity, and you know y'all gonna kill me for even thinking about this is to revisit the idea of forums dedicated talk about porn with particular level of 'hardness' but divied up a bit more sanely with more forums than just that horribly divisive number two.

Here are a few suggestions that would doubtless need a lot of tweaking if y'all went down that controversy fraught road...

• Vanilla

  Disks with just your basic boy/girl vaginal intercourse and oral. Probably not even including girl/girl scenes. (If such things even actually exist!)

• Mainstream

  Disks that are still predominantly boy/girl vaginal intercourse and oral, but in which you can expect to also see girl/girl, some or even quite a bit of anal, and sometimes the occasional DP scene. [Most all girl probably also goes in here, with the remainder in 'Hard', but you might want to split all of that off completely as it's bit problematic categorisationwise].

• Hard
  Disks that are predominantly not vaginal intercourse. Predominantly anal disks for example. Stuff with lots of gapes and DP.

  Also most stuff that's wall to wall a particular kink, blowjobs, gangbangs, fetish, she-males, whatever, probably goes in here.

• Superhard

  As 'Hard' but with added DAP, throat gagging, dominatiom etc.
  

In that sort of setup I guess most traffic would be in the 'Mainstream' and 'Hard' forums, with actual readers following two or more different forums.

Hope those various ideas help

-- yclept

Edited by - yclept on Apr 11 2002

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Cheers!

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One of the biggest reasons I post here is to ask questions and get answers; "What movie is this scene from?" "Which actress fits [this] description?"

If there's a bunch of forums, (and everyone will have their preferences), then my questions won't be seen by as many people, and they'll be less likely to get answered.

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Also, thanks Steph, for mentioning your concern regarding a certain trend. Hopefully, this will not get you branded as a Nazi feminist for even raising the issue, but it does mean more coming from you.

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I know it's difficult to strike a balance. On one hand, you can't just have one or a few forums or else it's anarchy. But on the other extreme, we can't have "Star Crossed - (insert star name here)" or "Adult DVD Talk - Andrew Blake and Similar Directors."

I like yclept's suggestions up to the point of breaking up into genres, if for no other reason than it tends to factionize the community. And in the case of certain people, I'd just as soon we didn't implicitly encourage their behavior by giving them their own sandbox, so to speak.

One needs only to look at DVD Talk to see how hard it is to keep a close knit community when you categorize your forum to death.

Another suggestion may be to also be able to tag posts with an icon or subject line code (maybe as a dropdown) so that it's a little clearer as to what the content of the post is about...

- Saki

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Tennis bracelet
Tuition
Rent
Jag payment
Tennis bracelet
Retirement fund
Lipo
Rome in the Fall

But what do I know?

Boat Drinks!!!

RoccoFan
The Madman Cumeth!!

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Feature talk: discussion on plotted porn
Gonzo talk: discussion on all-sex (non-extreme) porn
Nasty talk: discussion on extreme porn

What's the difference between extreme and non-extreme gonzo? Well, for example hustler's barely legal series, or anabolic's bring um young would be normal gonzo (not focussing on extreme sex acts)...where as ass worship titles and such would be in the nasty section.

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Since I didn't name (or remember) who posted the comment, I don't understand why you appear to be taking what I wrote as a personal attack. I'm not interested in catty sarcasm.

I'll tell you why I brought it up.

Inappropriate remarks aren't just made by the "extreme" or whatever name they're given this week crowd.

Whether BD posts here or not, it's about respect. Respect for our fellow posters and for the performers we watch. Just as I think "vivid sucks" has no place here I also think "Belladonna (or whoever) is an ugly skank" has no place here. (Ron Jeremy jokes aside).

You yourself recently have mentioned that you converse with a number of people via email that are intimidated to post here. As has been pointed out on a number of occasions, performers do on occasion read these forums and comments and DO get intimidated. (Tricia pointed out in that thread that BD does in fact read stuff on the internet and has been very upset by them.) Obviously I can't say whether BD would have chosen to become a member here, or even read your comment, but it's certainly not going to help.

Which is my point. It's hardly the kind of thing that's going to encourage more performers to post here, regardless of WHO types it.

So in my opinion, it's out of line because it lacked respect. Same as other things posted by other people that I've also been pointing out.

cheers,

scipio

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As for 'catty' sarcasm - call it that if you want, it's my style to be sarcastic, though I hope it doesn't come across as catty. Also, are we to be so pc now that we cannot say anything negative about any porn performer, member or not? I don't think Steph and Drew have implied anything of the sort. Given some comments I've heard, I still am quite puzzled by this mountain out of a molehill, but my apologies if I have offended you in any way.

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It seems like not everyone can take that approach, so maybe it has to be done for them.

Whatever the decision, I really believe that there should be no flame posts allowed anywhere on ADT. They don't help anyone.

Would I stop coming here if the negativity continues? I don't know - maybe. I have more important things to do than spending time to weed through comments that have no importance to ANYONE.

I say this knowing that if a certain few people were warned and didn't listen, and subsequently were booted out, then my company would lose posts from some of it's most vocal fans.

I still vote for keeping the forum as is.
Would I stop coming if it got split? NO, of course not. As long as the idiocy stops.

My second vote would be for a Features Forum and non-Features forum (All-Sex is a good term, IMO). A Technical forum would be fine too, but I agree with whoever said that a huge amount of forums is cumbersome to go through.

Sorry, it's been a rough week and I have no tolerance today for immaturity.
For every forum that I have to look at to answer questions, it takes me a little more time away from making DVDs...

I LOVE extreme stuff. I love features. I LOVE PORN.

Here's my suggestion: warn EVERYONE. If they don't listen, kick them out. As far as topics, if threads were labeled better, people would only have to click on the ones that they wanted to read.

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For example, I could say:

Saki, I think you're a buttmuffin and I'm mad that you bashed on my favorite performer so I think you should go eat a cockroach!

Ahhh, I would feel better having vented, and unless Saki wanted to see if someone was flaming him he wouldn't have to read that forum. Then all the negativity and crankiness could be corralled into one radioactive area.

Genius I know...

O.K, so maybe I'm just sick of reading this thread and amazed and disappointed at the same time that it's becoming an example of one of the major problems the forum has developed.

Or, eh...there could just no accounting for my hair brained ideas.

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