Knock Off

info@nutechentertainment.com

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NU-TECH!! Here's a newsflash - We don't like being ripped off!
Not that you give a shit.

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As far as the identical titles in the case of Dinner Party , it should be noted that John T. Bone's Dinner Party proceeded Ultimate's by about seven years. And even though Jim Powers version was probably a blanant attempt to capitalize on the sucess of Cameron Grant's film, one can hardly expect NuTech to simply stop selling a video they have rights to, especially when it's a somewhat decent porno. Perhaps they should consider changing the name, but aside from title protection from the MPAA by member studios, it's fair game to duplicate movie titles.

Finally, I think it's somewhat ironic that a company that has made quite a bit of money through direct mail order by charging extremely high prices for all goods (especially videos & DVDs) can cry fowl about another company trying to deceive consumers who don't know better.

Don't get me wrong, I can see how the practice is misleading and confusing. Also, Ultimate's version of Dinner Party is what immediately comes to mind when someone asks me about Dinner Party . Further, I think Dinner Party is one of the best adult films from the 1990s and I'm glad it's being remastered. And I think Adam & Eve's Ultimate label is one of the higher quality producers of porn today. And I'm no fan of NuTech, considering the majority of their titles are crappy, defective, gimmicky (DTS? Give me a BREAK!), or simply misleading (flipping and resizing the main video does not constitute a "multiple angle").

With that said, however, I hate to see venting like this, especially from a studio. It's the type of thing that I'd expect to see on Gene Ross, Luke Ford, or RAME. I'd like to think that this site offers a more positive approach to consumer relations than just airing dirty laundry and revealing just how nasty the politics in adult can be.

Nothing personal to JKRULL, and I apologize if I'm being an ass, but I'm not going to jump on this bandwagon. Nor do I condone businesses disparaging competitors--it's unprofessional, childish, and will turn this forum into a massive warzone if unchecked.

Off my soapbox now,

Saki

Edited by - Saki on Dec 16 2000

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Edited by - dvdman101 on Dec 16 2000

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If the roles were reversed we would be getting slammed as taking advantage of the little guy. Bet on it.

Read Dumbblondes comment, she is not dumb! That is for sure.

Out

Edited by - jkrull on Dec 17 2000

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1) Probably everyone who's ever bought porn has been burned by cheap ripoff's. That being the case, JKrull is correct in taking a few minor steps in protecting his interests. Whether etailers listen to his requests or not is up to them and the same goes for Steph. NuTech is so hit or miss in their product, it's not like any informed customers are going to buy much from them anyway.

I know if someone started reviewing movies here under the name HoustonDan-I'd express my displeasure to Steph. She would not be obligated to change the name or do anything else but I would not be a happy camper.

2) Saki: Dinner Party: sure, Mr Bone made one in the 80's with the same name. If it was like 85% of his other stuff, the title was the best part of the movie. However, your point is well taken. While JKrull may not look like he's taking the high road so many of us have come to expect of him and his company-allowing such blantant attempts probably impact his business more than he would like. The span of time between the 87 movie and the 94 movie was a lot different than the immediate release in 95 of another so called "Dinner Party". By actively trying to get free advertising at another company's expense, NuTech is poised to lower sales of the advertised product and increase their own. Legal? Probably but indicative of a lesser companies efforts. So while I agree they CAN do it, we shouldn't encourage them in any way.

3) "Finally, I think it's somewhat ironic that a company that has made quite a bit of money through direct mail order by charging extremely high prices for all goods (especially videos & DVDs) can cry fowl about another company trying to deceive consumers who don't know better."

Mail order is an expensive business. Until the last few years, most of us had to buy porn via the local store. I've told you people how much movies cost that way-even today. MSRP is the floor, not the ceiling around my area. Comparing apples to oranges (A&E's mailorder prices were actually a lot cheaper for me) isn't fair. Look at what happened when I had a defective JM Productions dvd-they charge a lot more than the affiliates here do yet tell me how any purchase made elsewhere is probably bootleg.

A&E, as well as others, know that selling directly to customers is a lot more expensive than selling to a distributor/etailer. As such, I won't take them to task for it. After all, the advent of the price search feature here at ADT was brought on by high prices-even online.

4) DVDMan, I'm sure you mean well but I've found that people who claim to be lurkers yet decloak to make such statements are usually shills. I'm not saying that you are one-just that it looks that way. I agree that you should buy whatever products you want to buy, from whomever you want to buy them from (as long as they are legal). ;)

While studio's generally don't "badmouth" other studio's in public, they do so all the time in private. At least he's doing so without being hypocritical.

5) JKrull, in a sense, making such remarks about other companies, even sleazy ripoff companies, in public is generally considered bad etiquette. You're so much better than that and lowering yourself makes little sense (I'm referring to NuTech-not the others here). Further, such criticism is generally my area of expertise. Please don't invade my territory. ;)

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JKRULL - I didn't call you a child--your behavior in this particular case is childish. I understand that you're probably losing money over what I agree was a blatant rip-off. But rather than take the professional approach and stick with your generous offer to exchange the title at no charge, you had to air your beef with NuTech publically. To me, it sounds like sour grapes. We certainly don't need to know that you're "asking" retailers to stop selling a competing title, nor that you've asked Steph to give you relief in the price search. By dragging this dispute into this forum, you're just begging representatives from all the studios to use it to take potshots at rival studios.

If the roles were reversed, I would be slamming on NuTech just as hard as I'm slamming Ultimate, and I doubt that Ultimate would react much differently than NuTech has. I've never seen an adult company willing to give up sales to "do the right thing," especially if it was vis a vis a competitor. I think the attitude would be "Sure it's not fair, but it's legal, so tough..."

And as far as dumbblonde's comment, you're right, she's not dumb, but she's not dumb in your book because she happens to agree with your position. As a matter of fact, I agree with you too--I hate ripoffs and deceptions, and it's not fair. But unfair is not illegal, and it does little good to boo-hoo about it. And I don't agree with approach of disparaging the competition.

Finally, it does happen all the time. I didn't see Disney releasing a press statement criticizing Madacy for releasing a cheap knockoff of "Mulan" months before the Disney DVD was released (exact same story & title, also animated, and produced at about the same time). James Cameron didn't campaign against the Image, Simitar, and Pioneer DVD titles that sought to capitalize (if not mislead) on the fame of "Titanic." Certainly there were lots of consumers who thought they were getting the blockbusters when ordering the $5.99 discs.

HoustonDon: All good points, and well taken. My biggest concern is that AdultDVDTalk, in my own opinion, should not be a place where studios feel they can come to take shots at other companies, nor lobby for consumer support. There are plenty of other venues to do that. The value of this site is that it allows the consumer (who could give a rat's ass about the internal politics of Company X or which studios are bitter enemies, etc.) to get relatively unbiased information about adult DVDs primarily from other consumers.

I value the contributions so far from the studios and stores--they have demonstrated true concern for their customers on this forum. There have also been some who have felt they could use this site to push their own agenda, and they are no longer here. This is the first post in a long time that I've seen that is toeing the line between what I would consider acceptable consumer advice and self-interested attacks. Not the end of the world, but it's a slippery slope I'd just as soon avoid.

As far as the mail order issue, I apologize for the cheap shot. In general, I stand by my statement (and I think the facts back me up), but it wasn't relevant or mature of me.

Saki

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Overall, I guess the only person I can really disagree with in the thread is dvdman101. If he can't see that JKrull is trying to look out for consumers (and admittedly his own company), that's his loss. He's going to miss out on some of the best DVDs out there.

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I remember a quote from another thread "Calling our customers and (Vivids) "unsavvy" in terms of technology and content" both insulting many folks on the site and the production companies. I took the high road, did not even address that kind of insult. I keep a copy of it.

Today, because I make a mistake regarding another matter, Adam & Eve is again insulted and accused of all kinds of unrelated issues. Instantly. Amazing how that Happens all the time,I don't complain. Suck it up and be honest. do not throw stones without reading your own recent posts.

I deserved being ridiculed, but my company and our customers don't deserve to have cheap shots taken at them at every opportunity.

Edited by - jkrull on Dec 17 2000

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Edited by - dumblonde on Dec 17 2000

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Icon 1: "NEEgee neegeee..Ole jas..ole jeeaa!
Icon 2: "Faster papi..OMEee goo!!"
Icon 3: "No comment."

"I once mixed a Bulldog with a Shitsu. I got a Bullshit."

-sonic

Edited by - sonic on Dec 17 2000

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BTW Sonic - Cute, but I believe that would be called an ORGY, not a GANG BANG!

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Edited by - The Wanderer on Dec 17 2000

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With that said, I fail to see how my comments were excessively unfair or hostile to either Ultimate or JKRULL. I fully admit that the rub against A&E was cheap, and I acknowledged and apologized for that. I could have gone back to my original post and edited out my cheap shot, but I'm against rewriting history for my own benefit.

But aside from that, I still think that my responses weren't out of line. I certainly wasn't ridiculing anyone or resorting to personal attacks. We're all adults here, and just because I play devil's advocate or say that something is unprofessional shouldn't make me the bad guy.

I guess I'm a bit irritated that I'm taken to town for saying anything remotely uncomplementary about A&E, but yet no one seems to take much issue in the original charges that NuTech is intentionally deceiving consumers or that NuTech doesn't give a shit. Am I the only one that thinks there's a pot and a kettle involved here? Does that mean that we can only say good things about companies we like and bad things only about companies we all agree we hate?

I wasn't looking for JKRULL to concede, nor defend NuTech's position. I was trying to keep the studio politics out of this forum. Over the past 13 months I've been participating in this site, I'm happy to say that I've found it to be a relatively unbiased source of information, much more refreshing than the gossip columns or newsgroups. Let's keep it that way!

Saki

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I'll admit it's easy for me to side against NuTech. They put out an anime dvd without subtitles (no english track) and didn't respond to my requests either by phone (I called them several times) or email (same). Further, someone who's been very helpful at Dvd Empire told me how lousy Nutech was responding to them as well. On top of that is the often quality challenged nature of their dvd's.

JKrull, on the other hand, has been helpful a number of times. I like a lot of what his company puts out-sometimes movies, sometimes toys, etc-and have been a customer with his company for over 15 years. When they have a problematic dvd, I let them know about it and they are in touch with me on the same or following day. Maybe I expect other companies to be so responsive-A&E have spoiled me.

No one is above criticism here but due to the nature of the internet it's sometimes easy to forget that this isn't a perfect form of communication. No one is telling anyone else that they must choose sides or villify a particular company in order to maintain harmony. Saki is often very articulate and informative. So is almost everyone else on this thread. As gentlemen (and ladies), we can agree to disagree on certain aspects of the Universe.

I would love to know some of the inside scoop on which companies hate each other-there's usually a good story behind it. I read some of Gene Ross's stuff of late only because he reaffirms so much of what other people have said for years. I called him on a few things a week or so ago and he explained them fairly well. I also read Mike Quasar's site and a few others for the glimpse behind the camera.

All that said, let's all go back to being friendly with one another and leave the negative comments to the lousy dvd's in our reviews.

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NuTech has potential. Until they focus more on the basic's, and a big part of that is becoming more consumer friendly, they will be another "wannabe" producer. I honestly hope they change their ways.

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It is a shame that people only picked up on the griping (negative) part of his message rather than this extremely positive announcement.

I know that when Evil Angel did the same thing a few months ago, it certainly increased my faith that any Evil Angel title that I buy will be first quality, or they will make good on it. I can safely say that this announcement gives me the same positive attitude about buying A&E titles without waiting on a review about the quality of the disk.

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