All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 842 > PAL vs. NTSC and how they relate to DVD
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Drew Black
broken crankshaft


8011 Posts
9/99
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 5:26PM
This subject has been touched upon before in this thread but I don't have a clear understanding of PAL, NTSC and how they relate to DVD. I'm sure it's been discussed plenty of times on some of the mainstream newsgroups. Maybe someone here is familiar with it and can shed some light on this for me.

I understand the PAL and NTSC signal encoding formats. I understand why they matter on video tape. (Video tape is an analog format that magnetically encodes a representation of the signal to be sent to the TV tuner.) DVD's on the other hand are a digital MPEG data stream. I don't think that a video signal format such as NTSC or PAL is actually encoded into the MPEG stream. I'm not sure about this though.

I assume that DVDs are video format independent. It's the player that generates the PAL or NTSC signal from the MPEG data stream, not the DVD media as in the case of VHS tapes.

Am I correct?

sonic
Deactivated User

1178 Posts
12/99
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 5:34PM
All I know is that PAL outbeats our crappy resolution. Those countries that use PAL anamorphic DVDs get such a crisp image! Don't know if they have HDTV though.
lazenby
Member

London, United Kingdom
274 Posts
12/00
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 5:36PM
sORRY TO STEAL YOUR THUNDER sonic but NTSC discs can be as sharp if not better than PAL

It is usaully down to the quality of the mastering that matters on DVD

lazenby
Member

London, United Kingdom
274 Posts
12/00
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 5:43PM
sorry about the CAPS on my last message i wasn`t shouting.
sonic
Deactivated User

1178 Posts
12/99
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 5:48PM
lazenby

Stealing my thunder?

Where is it?

What is your name tell me where it is!

What you have done is illegal, and in this State you can be fined or spend up to 25 years in a correction facilolllllity.

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...................

lazenby..I heard the opposite..I heard PAL is 600 lines of resolution. Many of their mainstream DVDs outbeat ours by a mile compared to the image. That is what I heard.

 
five_star
Five Star DVD

Tempe, AZ
167 Posts
11/99
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 6:10PM
Drew-

There are 2 types of DVDs, NTSC and PAL. Most DVD players sold in PAL countries will play both PAL and NTSC DVDs without any problems. However, NTSC machines generally will not play PAL discs unless you have a special adapter or a special machine.

Ken Graham
Five Star DVD

Clubber
Member

186 Posts
4/01
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 6:23PM
PAL is much clearer then the NTSC format.
All I know is that some years back PAL was kind of like an upgrade in most of Europe. This didnt happen in the USA because it was believed that Americans wouldnt be prepared to switch from the NTSC to PAL signal as it would mean buying new TV and VCRs.
Not only does this mean the USA has the poorer format, But it also means that they can only get R1 discs (unless their prepared to pay a small fortune on a new TV set, cables, etc).

Bizarrely, most people in the UK constantly moan about the way in which mainstream movies are released on DVD in the US a good 3 months in advance. While over looking how Great DVD is in Europe as we can handle both the PAL and NTSC formats, and pretty much have muti-regional players as standerd.
So if you want to buy the latest Japanise martial arts film (thats only releaced in Japan), it isnt a problem. Where as in the US, your stuck with the problem of not being able to play the Pal format, and not being able to play any other region than 1.

tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 6:41PM
PAL does indeed have a few more lines of resolution than NTSC, but not THAT many that it makes that much of a difference. (I think it's 540 Vs. 600)

Hi Ken (haven't talked to you in awhile!) I originally typed something different than is here now, because my authorer told me something different. (We thought PAL and NTSC only referred to video tape players, not DVD players, but Drew, I actually have the book DVD DeMystified, and thanks for doing all the research).

But to address what Clubber was talking about:
REGION 1 is the DVD problem that makes mainstream US DVDs non-playable outside of the US. For instance, when I was in Europe last year, Scream 3 was just arriving in their movie theatres, while here, it was already available on DVD. If the standard player in Europe could play the DVD, why would people go to the theatre after the DVD was already available to them. Of course, they can buy an American player, but at least it's a deterrent to help the domestic sales not interfere with foreign screen sales.
Adult DVDs are different in that they DO NOT have regional coding. This is possible because we do not have to worry about theatrical release dates. If you ever do see regional coding on adult DVDs, it is probably because another country bought foreign rights, and is trying to protect their investment.


Edited by - tricia_devereaux on Apr 17 2001

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8011 Posts
9/99
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 6:44PM
OK, I did some research and looked at the DVD decoder chip specs from a few manufacturers. (I used to design computer hardware in a past life.)

It's hard to argue whether PAL or NTSC are better on DVD from a specification standpoint. High quality DVDs are encoded in the CCIR601 format which supports 72 hex 480 pixels at 30 frames per second for NTSC and 720 x 576 pixles x 25 frames for PAL. PAL has more resolution but a slower frame rate on DVD. These numbers only apply to DVD. (Not VHS)

Here's the part that confuses me:

Motion video on DVD is encoded using MPEG2 data compression in CCIR601 component video format. (not composite video like VHS and Laser Disc.) CCIR601 is a digital format the represents luminance and chrominance data. (brightness and color) There is a chip in your DVD player that DEcodes this format into a digital image frame by frame and stores it in high-speed memory. There is a seperate function that takes the image from memory and ENcodes it into NTSC/PAL/RGB format for playback on a monitor or TV. This seperate function is usually performed in a second dedicated chip.

I still contend that the digital representation of the image on the DVD is video format independant. Motion video on DVD doesn't become PAL or NTSC until it's ENcoded in the player from the unit's internal memory. It should be that the player is PAL or NTSC specific and not the DVD from a purely technical standpoint. It may be true that DVDs are marketed as PAL or NTSC versions but that may just be to a carryover from the VHS days or an attempt to maximize profits.

I'm going to look around for some more info.

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8011 Posts
9/99
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 6:55PM
Here's an interesting link that states I'm basically wrong:
DVD DeMystified.

(Thanks Ken.)

spesedy
Member

Germany
238 Posts
8/00
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 8:53PM
Hi, I remember once having read an article about NTSC that said that a much bigger problem wasn't the resolution but the colours. Many people I know joke that NTSC stands for "Never the same colour", and they say that the colour-encoding and decoding of NTSC isn't as precise as with the PAL-format. I'm not sure what that means for DVDs though.
Evil_Rip
Senior Member

Power overwhelming
1117 Posts
12/99
Posted - Apr 17 2001 : 9:13PM
oh you can't forget about another problem with NTSC..

when a video does 3:2 pulldown.. it stretches a 24fps (23.91fps but who's counting) to 29.97fps during playback..

of course I don't know anything about TVs and VCRs
but i know when i watch a PAL or NTSC video/DVD on my computer.. there aren't anyproblems cuz they both go full screen just the same..


Evil_RIP

absinthe
Member

Finland
66 Posts
9/00
Posted - Apr 18 2001 : 4:21AM
Everything cleared then? PAL or NTSC doesn´t exist on discs, only differencies in resolution, field rate and "shape" of pixels are in digital stream, but we still like to call dvd´s "PAL" and "NTSC".

I always thought I could just by looking at the picture tell if it was PAL or NTSC. The differencies in resolution, 625("576") and 525("480") is nearly as big (20%) as between anamorphic and non-anamorphic (33%), which I suppose everyone notices. But now I seem to have few Private movies which aren´t PAL as I´ve thought, and I´d like to check if this is for sure. So does anyone know a pragmatic way to check if a certain disc is PAL/NTSC? A PC software player perhaps? This would also propably be beneficial to those from NTSC part of the world querying about GGG and such Euro titles.

ookz
Member

251 Posts
1/01
Posted - Apr 18 2001 : 5:53AM
PAL=Perfect At Last .
All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 842PAL vs. NTSC and how they relate to DVD

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