From AdultFYI.com --- from the book John Holmes: A Life Measured in Inches Paul Thomas offers his thoughts upon hearing of Holmes’ death. “When I found out he had AIDS,” says Thomas, “I was in denial because then I was scared that I had it. I wouldn’t test. It seemed the proper ending for Holmes, or anyone else in this business. It seemed not surprising at all, in fact, it was surprising that we all didn’t have it. That was amazing: not that he had it, but that we all didn’t have it. I’d crossed swords with him many times. He was with a girl and three seconds later, I was with her, so it was surprising that we all didn’t get it. The fact that he got it and died from it was perfect. Tragic, but perfect.” Thoughts ? Would he say the same about the other performers who have since contracted HIV ? Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com
Up to 15% of people from northern Europe carry a gene that gives them resistance against HIV infection. Which could be one of the reasons why Paul Thomas didn't get infected while John Holmes did get infected. HIV resistance article Also, John Holmes was bigger than other studs in the cock department. Which meant that he had more friction and probably more micro-abraisions from having sex that predisposed him to HIV infection. Edited by - Dan on 9/6/2008 6:07:38 PM
IMO, Paul Thomas loves to "shock" in his public statements & actions [Remember the flack he caused at Yale University?]...often making his point in obscure or non-direct ways. On the surface, the jist of what he's saying is that during the era that John Holmes (and Thomas) were performing, they were all pretty reckless--and Thomas realizes it was just luck that he wasn't infected with AIDS. However, there may be a more obscure angle to Thomas' statement beyond the John Holmes bio: it may be his way of acknowledging the danger inherent in the change by his long-term employer (Vivid Video) to "condom optional" sex scenes about a year ago. Vivid had been a "condoms mandatory" studio, then went to "optional" in hopes of appealing to a greater range of porn fans. Another Vivid Contract Director, Chi Chi LaRue, left Vivid in protest--but Thomas stayed. So Thomas may be using his comments about Holmes dying of AIDS to say, publicly, that although he stayed at Vivid he (like Chi Chi LaRue) understands the health hazards to porn performers. Bottom line: with Paul Thomas, there are often "hidden" meanings in what he says or do.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Sep 6 2008 : 8:15PM
I believe John Holmes was a down and out drug addict. He could just as easily gotten the HIV & AIDS from that. Certainly no expert, but beside Dan's comment regarding HIV gene resistance, I think there is also a corollary between anal sex the ease of transmitting ADES. So in any event unless PT was sharing needles or taking it up the ass I think the odds of him getting sick were greatly demised. His comment about perfection do leave me puzzled though.
Isn't Paul Thomas' porn world basically dead? He still is very sad about the demise of the Golden Age. Did anyone notice how forlorn he looked at the AVN awards when he accepted the very last award for Best FILM? John Holmes is a symbol of that earlier time so he being dead from HIV is perfect in much the same way has "Hamlet" is a perfect tragedy. Or at least that's what I get from it...
he used the word 'perfect'. Perfect that Holmes got it and he didn't? what kind of thing is that to say. I dunno, maybe Paul is exhibiting the early stages of Alzheimers!
That was my understanding of it as well--but there wasn't a lot know about AIDS at the time so there was some justification for Thomas' fear. But he really should have gotten himself tested, if his concern was that great. I wonder, though--how did Sharon Mitchell avoid getting any kind of disease from her heroin use? It's my understanding she used to shoot up over a period of fifteen years, and I hadn't heard of her getting HIV or hepatitis, or anything like that? Did she use clean needles every time, or what? ______________________________________________________________ "There can never be too many beautiful women Hypnotized for our pleasure."
I'm still sad about the demise of the Golden Age and also sad that the last award for best film has been given out. It's too bad the amount of adult movies being shot on film has gotten so low that the award isn't being given out anymore.
also john holms was an addict he would shoot up so that could have been a factor of how he contracted HIv from sharing dirty needles... watch wonderland its a great movie it touches on that "im the girl your mother warned you about"
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 7 2008 : 3:14AM
I always read John probably got it from Joey Yale while filming "The Private Pleasures of John C. Holmes". Joey died of AIDS on April 1986.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 7 2008 : 3:38AM
Nah, that's BS that Ron Jeremy has been spouting for years. There's no evidence for any of it. John Holmes was a junkie, and let's face it, a scumbag who knowingly had sex with other performers in Europe when he was infected.
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 7 2008 : 3:53AM
Why would Ron Jeremy lie about that? But Joey did die of AIDS and they did have together in that movie from everything I have read. Yes he continued to perform after knowing he was infected but he wasn't Marc Wallice. He was a hardcore drug user and they all thought everyone in porn would get it back then. But his second wife Laurie knew and she never told anyone in her industry that John had HIV. I'm not making excuses for him but it was a completely different time back then and relatively all new to HIV and AIDS.
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 7 2008 : 3:54AM
And everything I have read about John for years, no one was infected by him.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 7 2008 : 4:36AM
Darrah wrote:I don't think RJ is lying, but the actual statement from him is pure conjecture, he has no real reason to believe it, he's basically guessing. It seems unlikely that Holmes would've contracted AIDS from the one 'gay for pay' performance he ever did on film, instead of his constant and reckless drug use. The idea that 'everyone was going to get it anyway' was a transparent junkie excuse from Holmes, when others like Marc Stevens, Chuck Vincent or John Stagliano contracted HIV they didn't continue fucking others without compunction. Edited by - BlackSix on 9/7/2008 4:39:27 AM
If you read the John Holmes book mentioned above, he abused coke, not heroin. No one, not even those close to him, Sharon, Laurie, Bill Amerson, indicated they never saw him use needles. He actually had a fear of needles. Thus, there's no evidence that he ever shot up but he did work with Joey Yale, who was HIV positive at the time and did die of AIDS 2 years prior to Holmes own death. Also, they tracked his testing and it appears that he definitely did acquire it from his work with Joey Yale. Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com Edited by - pornlaw on 9/7/2008 11:21:15 AM
Of course PT was at risk. He was having on camera sex with the same women John Holmes was having sex with after John was infected with HI-V. Sharing a needle with John, or directly taking John's dick up the ass are NOT the only ways PT could have gotten AIDS from Holmes back in the day. Having "common partners" put him at risk. The performers infected (later) by the Barbara Doll and Marc Wallice cases did not get it by sharing needles or taking it up the ass.
There is a lot of truth in Thomas' quote. I've been told by numerous actors who worked in the 80s that they feared it would be the end of their industry when Holmes died of AIDS. It also was, as Thomas put it, "perfect" that porn's ultimate hero/villain would become the poster child victim of the greatest threat to face porn in the last 20 years. RE: The death of the Golden Age, all good things must come to an end. It's just as great of a shame that non-X filmmakers are shooting FILM less and less as it is that X filmmakers have abandoned the medium. Than again, we live in the era of "post-modernism" where some guy's movie shot on a cell phone is given just as much aesthetic value and exposure as a real film shot on film. It's a shame that art has been turned completely into a product and commodity and an even greater shame that due to the comodification of art, artists aren't being given the tools to express themselves freely.
I thought he got it from filming Italian gay scenes for Paradise Visuals in c.1984. Amazing how Ginger Lynn and Laurie(Misty Dawn) didn't catch anything.
Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07
Posted - Sep 7 2008 : 3:14PM
John Lyons wrote : [/quote] RE: The death of the Golden Age, all good things must come to an end. It's just as great of a shame that non-X filmmakers are shooting FILM less and less as it is that X filmmakers have abandoned the medium. Than again, we live in the era of "post-modernism" where some guy's movie shot on a cell phone is given just as much aesthetic value and exposure as a real film shot on film. It's a shame that art has been turned completely into a product and commodity and an even greater shame that due to the comodification of art, artists aren't being given the tools to express themselves freely. [/quote] Yep, actually you can't label an "age" until that "age" is over. It takes bacwards vision to realize the value of any era in art or otherwise. That's why saying today is the golden age is ridiculous. [ I know that belongs in another thread ]
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 8 2008 : 3:19AM
I've never heard that he was afraid of needles but you're right that he said he was largely hooked on freebasing cocaine. You can't trust Laurie Holmes on anything she says, but Sharon Holmes seems very upfront. I guess it ultimately is kind of a moot point how he got it but I'll still be interested in seeing the new evidence they've dug up for the book.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 8 2008 : 3:21AM
I found what RJ said in The Other Hollywood: "He (Holmes) couldn't really get a job in America; he did a gay movie here. He supposedly go the virus when he was in jail; his male lover supposedly died of it." Lots of 'supposedly' in there and the claim that he got it in jail from a 'male lover' sounds completely false.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Sep 8 2008 : 9:23AM
I was not trying to say that here was no risk, but that the risk was greatly diminished. Obviously we know a great deal more about the disease today, but it is my understanding that the transmission of Aides from female to male is very rare. But I think Pornlaw's latest post pretty much makes my original post moot. Apparently he contracted the disease from Joey Yale.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Sep 8 2008 : 12:41PM
Don't believe half of what's in that book. It's an interesting read for sure, but take a lot of it with a grain of salt.
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 8 2008 : 1:28PM
I read on another forum how Legs Mcneil criticized John Holmes' ex-girlfriend Dawn Schiller and started to viciously attack her and making up lies about her and her family all because she wouldn't bring him into the Wonderland movie. He approached her and wanted to write and be a part of the production. She said no and went with who she did. I wouldn't believe anything Mcneil had to say.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 8 2008 : 9:35PM
If you look earlier you'll see that I was posting the quote to show that RJ was not reliable. Sharon Mitchell tells several dubious stories as well. I don't think anyone would take The Other Hollywood as the gospel truth, the authors quote people directly contradicting each other. Since it's an 'oral history' I think they're leaving it up to the reader to decide who may or may not be telling the truth.
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Knuckle Kids Deactivated User
287 Posts 4/08
Posted - Sep 9 2008 : 5:41PM
Holmes died of AIDS? I thought he had died of Botulism. You know, bad meat in the can! Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I know and that horribly depresses me too. I like that DV has opened up the opportunity for movies to get made, on the mainstream and adult side, that never would have seen the day if they had to be shot on film due to the cost. But I like the look of a movie shot on film. I wish there was still a place for shot on film features.
Sad but true. Hollywood, which has never been all that interested in actually creating good art would love to be able to simply switch to video even though video will probably never be able to replicate the beauty of film.
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 11 2008 : 11:37AM
He plead guilty to a lot of things including conspiracy to commit the murders in 2000. The police never gave up on getting him. They finally did on racketeering in 2000. You need 5 people in order to make a racketeering case I believe. They named Nash, John Holmes, Nash's dead (1995) bodyguard Greg Diles, and two Russian guys. The case is still looked as unsolved. But they wanted some sort of closer on the case and gave Nash this sweetheart deal of three years but he only got to serve about one year. His lawyers said he was in poor health but I don't believe that. But he was out by the time the movie came out. He did a television interview and he said how Detective Tom Lange couldn't get O.J. Simpson but thinks he can get me.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 12 2008 : 2:57AM
Not that Holmes did anything to help close the case either.
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 12 2008 : 3:16AM
Detectives Lange and Souza went to John's VA hospital room just before he died and asked him what happened and to tell them everything considering he was about to die. John still didn't say anything. I and others have thought that maybe John was still protecting his family.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 12 2008 : 3:30AM
No offence, but what family? The teenage girl he was beating up for years? His extremely estranged ex-wife? the slightly loopy lady he had recently married? Do you really think Nash would bother hurting them after Holmes was dead?
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 13 2008 : 1:49PM
His mother, siblings, nieces, and nephews. His first wife Sharon, His ex-girlfriend Dawn. Bill Amerson and his children who John was godfather of. Bob Chinn. Julia St. Vincent. His then wife Laurie. And other friends and business associates. Nash and his bodyguard Greg Diles had two trials. Fist trial they paid an 18-year-old girl about $50,000 to side with Nash and Diles and she was the lone juror and it was a hung jury. Second trial was somehow a full acquittal of both Nash and Diles. Years later they found out about bribing the 18-year-old girl. Even though John was dying, he might have thought whatever he said could make Sharon and Dawn be forced to testify at any future Nash/Diles trials. They did beat it out of John. Liberace's boyfriend Scott Thorson was there when Diles dragged John into Nash's home and they had started beating John. They never portrayed Scott in Wonderland because I think they didn't have enough time to put him in. But Scott was put into the Witness Protection Program for testifying at Nash and Diles' trials. side note but Sharon Holmes has Alzheimer's. She moved in with John's ex-girlfriend Dawn Schiller and Dawn is taking care of her now. After Dawn returned from Thailand and two weeks later John died, she and Sharon stayed friends/family.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 14 2008 : 1:51AM
Again, come on, were Sharon Holmes and Dawn really in danger? If Holmes was so concerned for Dawn why did he beat her on a regular basis not to mention turning her out? To claim that Nash would've gone after Bob Chinn is just silly. Chinn had stopped working with Holmes long before Wonderland, I don't know if they were even talking anymore at that point. Chinn says in the commentary for Exhausted that he had cut Holmes off because of his drug problems. Edited by - BlackSix on 9/14/2008 1:53:24 AM
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Darrah Deactivated User
135 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 12:36AM
Sharon, Dawn, Julia, and Laurie could have all been forced to testify for either the defense or prosecution in the Nash/Diles trial. In defense because in case Nash threatened them. Sharon because she was his wife at the time and could know things. Dawn because she was his girlfriend at the time and could know things. Julia because she dated John on and off for years and visited him while he was in prison and she could also know things. Laurie because she was his current wife before he died and he could have told her things. I wouldn't have told the police anything on my death bed either because I would be worrying what future danger and legal problems I could get them all in just because I talked. John didn't go into the Witness Protection Program because Sharon said no and she was not going to uproot her life and leave her family, friends, and nursing job all because of her loser husband she hadn't even had sex with since the late 60's after finding out what he did for a living. He didn't want to leave Sharon behind with Nash possibly targeting her all to get to John. So he must have loved her enough right? Yes he beat Dawn and pimped her to Nash but why do many of the porn girls and the every day woman stay with their abusive boyfriends/husbands and vice versa? Their crazy version of "love". Dawn was with him since she was 15 and was possibly a virgin. Sharon is Italian Catholic and WAS a virgin on her wedding night. He got two virgins by his side that he knew/thought would never leave him.
What I got from that was it was perfect in the sense that someone got it and died from it and it made everyone in the industry take testing real serious and how to better eliminate the possibilities of getting getting any STD's while being in the porn business. Because if John Holmes does not happen then it could of destroyed the porn industry.
John Holmes @ AEBN
Posted - Sep 6 2008 : 2:00PM
