Paycheck Syndrome

Author	Post
ADF Deactivated User Insert something clever here 4 Posts 7/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 6:04AM We've all seen the "paycheck syndrome"; performers who just lie there looking bored and zoned out, barely pronouncing the odd "oh yeah". Has anybody any ideas on how to discourage this? Personally, i'd say paying a lot less (call it a deposit) and including "points" (a percentage of the movie's profits), which may encourage the performers to put a bit of effort into the scene, knowing the hotter the scene is, the more it will sell, the more moolah they get back from the profit. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 7:23AM The trouble is there's no criteria everybody will agree upon for what makes a good performance. [Link]
Festus Member Don't let me stop ya. I just likes ta watch. Heh...heh...heh. 95 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 10:21AM To get animals to work harder is just train them proper from startings. Keep them caged up and feed them only minimums amount before they work. Just enough so they not starve or die of sick. Then give them a hard day of taskings to do. Then feed the ones that work hardest more and let the other lazy animals see this. They will feel angry with they're jealous nature and try to bite at you or whimperings but be strong and only give up to them them minimums again. Do this for many times over days and weeks to come. Then after some time they will learn that hard workings mean more better feedings and they will work hard for you. ---- "You cannot blame porn. When I was young, I used to masturbate to Gilligan's Island." Ron Jeremy [Link]
JEWEL (imposter) Jewel De'Nyle 736 Posts 1/06	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 10:28AM I cannot stand it when these girls come to set get top rate then ask how much longer??? They should be thankful they make the money they do and that the phone is still ringing as one day that will stop as well because someone hotter then them charging the same rate will come along and take their place. I think directors should pay a girl a bonus based on his/her performance and I know you'd see a huge change in attitude then. Start out with a low base rate and if he/she does an awesome job you pay him/her more. I remember getting bonus money for doing a good job if the director felt I was under paid or making the same amount as a girl who was lame they'd kick me a couple hundred extra. But now sadly todays talent has no idea what it's like to want to be a true performer. [Link]
messhuga Member Stop the Swedes!!!!! 824 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 11:20AM You are right Jewell. There is just far too many Chicks who are Dud performers but demand top cash based on their Looks or Boob jobs. I could mention a name,but I know she's a member of this Board, so I will with-hold her name. Her performances are rather depressing,she Gives Nina Mercedes a run for her money in terms of Yawnfest performances. End of rant. [Link]

Rasfor Member 23 Posts 5/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 11:36AM More cooperation between directors in pointing out good performers might work. But the basic problem is that the producers doesn't exactly have an incentive to produce a good scene, but a scene that sells. Which puts much more emphasis on how hot the girl manages to look on stills and in short clips than how well she performs overall. So even including points on the profits wouldn't help good performers, but mostly pretty girls. Of course, it's also a little unfair to solely blame the female talent. Clearly the male performer and director matters a lot as well. As can be seen by the women's reaction when working with a really talented guy who works hard to turn them on and bring out a good performance. Similarly how the director does his job should matter a lot as well. Edited by - Rasfor on 7/9/2007 11:37:31 AM [Link]
TheLoneGunman Member 400 Posts 10/03	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 12:04PM ADF wrote: Has anybody any ideas on how to discourage this? Click to expand The bottom line is you just don't hire them again, and you don't recommend them to your fellow filmmakers. [Link]
JEWEL (imposter) Jewel De'Nyle 736 Posts 1/06	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 1:09PM Believe me I've had times where I'm pulling out my hair on set stopping and starting just to get a hot scene and when this happens I never forget it and I never hire those guys or girls again. I will say I am happy with some very recent scenes I shot and the girls were worth every dime. Mya Luanna Katarina Kat Brooke Belle Sinnamon Luv very underrated performer she's amazing one of the best in the biz. Adriana Deville a true porn whore love her. And these girls I don't mind paying extra but when you have someone do a half ass job it sucks forking over the cash in fact it makes me sick when I sign their checks. Edited by - hardware on 7/9/2007 1:11:52 PM [Link]
SinnamonLove Member 376 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 3:41PM Thank you Jewel! I really appreciate the compliment... I loved shooting for you.. you just let us go at it and do our thing - making it easy to play. :) I think a lot of directors get stuck on the "new" and stereotypically "hot" girl that they don't acknowledge the chicks that actually love what they do. Take for example AVN giving Mika Tan the "Underrated Starlet of the Year" Award but not actually presenting it on stage... It was like the most ass backwards compliment ever! ;-) Sinny [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 5:12PM Festus wrote: To get animals to work harder is just train them proper from startings. Keep them caged up and feed them only minimums amount before they work. Just enough so they not starve or die of sick... Then after some time they will learn that hard workings mean more better feedings and they will work hard for you. Click to expand Sounds like this was copied right out of Chico Wang's How-to Pornography Manual. Edited by - hardware on 7/9/2007 10:11:42 PM [Link]
Festus Member Don't let me stop ya. I just likes ta watch. Heh...heh...heh. 95 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 5:42PM Chico Wang may has written up a how to guide that say the same thing as me but I haven't read on it before and that for true. I would never copy nothing what spmeone else wrote without I say so in the writing or I put some quote marks on it for all to see. Not even in school subjects I had trouble in would I copy off of someone elses thoughtings without I first give a attribute. If I write it then it my idea by golly! I aint no cheat! ---- "You cannot blame porn. When I was young, I used to masturbate to Gilligan's Island." Ron Jeremy [Link]
nightowl Member 51 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 6:21PM this thread reminds me about another i started some time ago about nina mercedez, one of the ultimate 'quick, pass me the tissue' performers as far as i'm concerned. i doubt if the problem will be solved because there are obviously many consumers who put looks above sexual performance. an example of this is vivid which sells lots of dvds and has some beautiful women but in sex scenes that are often a cure for insomnia. the fact that people keep buying the product obviously confirms the looks over performance argument. it's disappointing when you buy a film and find that the performers aren't interested but i guess the only way around it is to avoid buying anything featuring that person again. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 7:27PM I'm completely opposed to anything that aims to force them to put on a better performance. It would be nice if what was described didn't happen but unfortunately, it just does and realistically, it just can't be prevented. Fortunately, those women usually only stick around long enough to make enough money to get themselves out of porn. Or until they just get bored or tired of it. Of course, as soon as they exit, they'll be replaced by another "Oh God! Oh Shit! Pay me!". It's just life. A better question might be - How can the industry do a better job of finding the genuine performers? Because basically, if she ain't liking it, no amount of money is gonna change her mind. And trying to force her to is a bad idea all the way around. [Link]
ZeroCool007 Senior Member I'm going to stab you in the throat with a spork!!! 1048 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 8:36PM i agree about mika, because ive always loved here scenes and got to meet her at AEE 07...it's true that most consumers value looks over performance...there are a great many actresses out there who are able to combine the two...jewel, your one...adriana sage is one...and Kat is another... [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 9:14PM SinnamonLove wrote: Take for example AVN giving Mika Tan the "Underrated Starlet of the Year" Award but not actually presenting it on stage... It was like the most ass backwards compliment ever! ;-) Click to expand Damn never heard about that, now that is messed up! Edited by - hardware on 7/9/2007 10:10:55 PM [Link]

Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 9:28PM JEWEL wrote: Believe me I've had times where I'm pulling out my hair on set stopping and starting just to get a hot scene and when this happens I never forget it and I never hire those guys or girls again. Click to expand Wow interesting stuff! Could you give an example of what you mean by stopping and starting to get a hot scene? I'm just curious what is so bad that it makes you want to pull out your hair? This topic reminds me of a Mike Quasar quote. "Everybody loves to fuck but not everybody looks good fucking." Or something along those lines. I know it gets played out with people saying it so much but Jules Jordan seems to really bring out more in the women he films. And as much as people would like to believe it's all up to the pornstars (which I believe it partly is)...I think the director has to have a vision that is on the same page as the performers. I don't believe in the whole caged theory mentioned above about inciting jealousy about what other stars are paid/given. I think you have to work with what you have and some girls, like some people in life, need more attention/direction than others. It's frustrating at times I'm sure but who's fault is it really if a girl gives a bad performance on film? We've seen it TONS of times. Is it the girls fault? Or is it the director who pumps that garbage out without hesitation? So I think a lot is in the directors hands as far as if it's passable as porn. The director can always say I don't like that, let's try it this way...or let's start over. And like Jewel mentioned above she IS doing that..to the point of wanting to pull out her hair in some cases. :) So ultimately I think the directors out there need to be more mindful of "their film". I personally wouldn't let any pornstar fuck my film up. I wouldn't sit back and let them do that. I would work with them to the point of wanting to pull out my own hair to make sure it's a better scene. Just my thoughts. Edited by - hardware on 7/9/2007 10:12:54 PM [Link]
Mitch Cumstein Member Putting at night 28 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 9 2007 : 10:29PM Does drug use have any effect on this? I am referring to illegal drug use. And if so which makes a better scene with or without drug use? Would this depend on the person? MC [Link]
JEWEL (imposter) Jewel De'Nyle 736 Posts 1/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 8:38AM I've stopped and started scenes before either because the girl was laying there loaded on pills and looked like she was falling asleep or on who knows what. Most of the problem with lame scenes is drug use. Or the girls have what I call the hooker mentality and they just want to hurry up and collect and have zero passion in their scenes and look like they are fucking a jon. Stuff like this makes me pull my hair out. [Link]
SexyHard Member 673 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 10:24AM The person who started the topic mentioned the possibility of paying girls on points. I've thought of the same thing, but for a different reason. I like jerking off to classic movies, and I think it's a shame that the producer is still making money, but the girl got her $200 thirty years ago, and hasn't seen a dime since. It would be great if porn could become a source of residual income for the girls. (And some of these girl's grandkids would still be getting checks.) The problem is that even publicly traded companies that have to release outside audits to the public cook the books. It would be easy to say, "Oh we only sold 20 copies this month, when in fact they sold 200." Jewel, do you think the adult business has matured to the point that a girl could trust a company to actually send her checks for the next thirty years if the DVD sold for that long? How would you have felt about being paid on points back when you were performing? How would you feel about paying points today? P.S. I said that some of the girl's grandkids will still be getting checks: My guess is that Jenna Haze is the Betty Page of our generation. She will still have a cult following in 50 years. (Though she doesn't have Betty's magical combination of innocence and sluttiness, Jenna is all slut!) [Link]
Rico Shades Member www.mydeepdarksecret.com 295 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 10:59AM Jewel...The last time some bitch showed up on my set and asked "how long is this going to take"? I said, "oh sweetie, we're already done. Call your ride and enjoy the rest of your day. They're probably only at the corner so you should be able to catch them if you run." Her face was in shock and she couldn't believe I killed it because she was such a "star". My point is, if you don't want to work then fuck it. Don't waste my time. There are plenty of girls who do. I refuse to let some chick look at this as an "inconvenience", especially when they're getting 4 digits for a few hours of their time. You know what blows my mind more than anything though is that they bitch and moan about a gonzo scene that typically takes on average about 2 hours (counting the stills and all) but they'll go sit on a fucking feature "quietly" for 12 hours one day and then have to come back two or three more times (dialogue/script, box cover shoot, etc.) for the same amount of money that the gonzo scene paid. WTF!? Producers unite and keep helping each other filter out the bullshit. [Link]
Rico Shades Member www.mydeepdarksecret.com 295 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:06AM messhuga wrote: I could mention a name,but I know she's a member of this Board, so I will with-hold her name. Click to expand IMO withholding her name is part of the problem. I'm not saying blast her, but criticism can be done in a very objective and innocent way. If no one is calling her on the rug, she may think what she's doing is "acceptable". If the jobs start to dry up maybe she'll get the message that whatever she's doing, or not doing in this case, is not cool with producers and ultimately it's going to cost her money by not getting hired. At the end of the day, if they don't want to do what the producer is paying their hard earned money for, then there are plenty of slots available for them at bellamodels where they can fuck for 20 min and not have to worry about taking direction (a vice cop maybe, but no direction). Edited by - hardware on 7/10/2007 1:48:07 PM [Link]
Rico Shades Member www.mydeepdarksecret.com 295 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:09AM BTW...I've hired Mika twice and she is definitely a professional in every sense of the term. Very beautiful, a kick ass performer and none of the bullshit. She really should write a book on porn etiquette for newbies, and frankly some veterans, to follow. [Link]
Rasfor Member 23 Posts 5/07	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:32AM Or the girls have what I call the hooker mentality and they just want to hurry up and collect and have zero passion in their scenes and look like they are fucking a jon. Stuff like this makes me pull my hair out. Click to expand Hey, just imagine how their johns feel. Edited by - Rasfor on 7/10/2007 11:35:46 AM [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 1:51PM Rico Shades wrote: IMO withholding her name is part of the problem. Click to expand I'm not sure that I agree. She has an agent, doesn't she? What is an agent good for if not helping to manage a performer's career? If I were an agent then I'd be calling the director to find out how things went, and I think that's the relationship where this kind of problem should get handled, not on a fan forum. Edited by - hardware on 7/10/2007 1:51:17 PM [Link]
Rico Shades Member www.mydeepdarksecret.com 295 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 2:18PM Hardware...oh no. sorry for the confusion. definitely not in a fan forum, but somewhere more appropriate like PSP for instance. a message board exclusive to directors. [Link]

Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 2:23PM Thanks for the clarification. While discussing a 'problem performer' amongst yourselves may save you time and money it doesn't really tell the performer why there's a problem. Granted, some wouldn't get it, or care, if you took out a billboard in downtown LA, but considering the age of these gals I suspect many just haven't been hit by the realities of work yet. [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 2:46PM This syndrome is not exclusive to porn. [Link]
Mitch Cumstein Member Putting at night 28 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 4:33PM JEWEL wrote: I've stopped and started scenes before either because the girl was laying there loaded on pills and looked like she was falling asleep or on who knows what. Most of the problem with lame scenes is drug use. Or the girls have what I call the hooker mentality and they just want to hurry up and collect and have zero passion in their scenes and look like they are fucking a jon. Stuff like this makes me pull my hair out. Click to expand This shows in many scenes. I've often wondered if the male talent's penis is a tranquilizer dart! This to me is obvious that they are on drugs, and you have confirmed what I have always thought. By the way I have noticed the male talent at times as well has the same look. MC [Link]
JEWEL (imposter) Jewel De'Nyle 736 Posts 1/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 4:39PM Theres nothing better in a scene when a girl is alert and happy to be getting laid. [Link]
mulletastic Member Business in the front, party in the back. 117 Posts 7/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 6:10PM Clam Digger wrote: This syndrome is not exclusive to porn. Click to expand On the other hand, most of America does not get paid 4 figures for a couple hours of work. If I got paid that, my work would reflect the graciousness I felt. Would most of these girls be close to making that kind of money in a real world job? Yeah right, most of them would probably be working in a restaurant or retail job. [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 9:57PM Rico Shades wrote: Hardware...oh no. sorry for the confusion. definitely not in a fan forum, but somewhere more appropriate like PSP for instance. a message board exclusive to directors. Click to expand Hey Rico, is there a board for adult directors? And what is PSP? [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 12:27AM Porn Star Performance Click [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 12:49AM That's awesome, thanks Kimi! I was close to starting a website like that and wasn't sure if one existed. I will check it out. :) Edited by - hardware on 7/11/2007 1:13:30 AM [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 9:31AM mulletastic wrote: On the other hand, most of America does not get paid 4 figures for a couple hours of work. Click to expand I take it that you have never hired an attorney. Edited by - hardware on 7/11/2007 12:22:05 PM [Link]
mulletastic Member Business in the front, party in the back. 117 Posts 7/06	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 4:02PM Clam Digger- Thats why I said MOST in America don't make that kind of money. Also, lawyers are not exactly the biggest part of the workforce either and very few lawyers have the stature/prestige to charge those kinds of rates. Edited by - mulletastic on 7/11/2007 4:06:28 PM [Link]

KatarinaKat Member 250 Posts 11/06	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 5:32PM JEWEL wrote: ... Katarina Kat Click to expand Thanks babe...It was such a pleasure to shoot for you and I would love to shoot for you anytime you want me to...you're awesome in every way! Thanks for the opportunity! XOXO Katarina Kat mod: snipped the quote - see the Forum Etiquette Edited by - hardware on 7/11/2007 5:52:08 PM [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 6:28PM mulletastic wrote: Clam Digger- Thats why I said MOST in America don't make that kind of money. Also, lawyers are not exactly the biggest part of the workforce either and very few lawyers have the stature/prestige to charge those kinds of rates. Edited by - mulletastic on 7/11/2007 4:06:28 PM Click to expand Now I'm really convinced that you have never hired an attorney. PS - lightened up a little - just trying to inject a little humor here. [Link]
Hypermastia Deactivated User These R The Buttocks Of Ryan Star: No Butt Can Compare 248 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 6:54AM In movie review after movie review, I've read that Allie Sin was too frigid. Bullshit. I hate girls who scream and moan to the point that you wish they'd just shut up and get fucked. Allie Sin (before those ugle implants) didn't perform like that........aside from being Gorgeous, That's what made her movies the absolute best. [Link]
adriana1978 New Member 1 Posts 7/07	Posted - Jul 17 2007 : 12:09PM Jewel Thank you for the compliment. I just want to say that i really loved shooting for you. I hope to shoot for you again soon. Kisses.... Adriana Deville [Link]
Royal Tee Member 665 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 18 2007 : 2:52AM Hypermastia wrote: In movie review after movie review, I've read that Allie Sin was too frigid. Bullshit. I hate girls who scream and moan to the point that you wish they'd just shut up and get fucked. Allie Sin (before those ugle implants) didn't perform like that........aside from being Gorgeous, That's what made her movies the absolute best. Click to expand That's what I also loved about Allie. [Link]