I am sold, say what you want, there will be always someone willing to defend anything no matter how disturbing. Gia and Ashley are serious hardcore girls who can take a licking and if they were truly scared (not acting scared) and upset by the scene, this by default tells us two things. A- They were not fully informed ergo they could not offer fully informed consent B-Khan purposefully went well over the line of safety to hurt/humiliate his talent In many scenes (such as Pureheart's) he even has the girl give their real name and then calls them by their real name. In Taryn's scene he tried to get her to talk about her little sister and give her real name. I could go on and on, and I am sure Lube n Luv or someone will sweep in and tell me and the rest of us how we are all idiots, but two veteran, very hardcore actresses who speak so horribly about their experience with him are enough to sell me that he gets off on this stuff in real life, and it is not a movie to him.
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StillHope Deactivated User
"You didn't say Car Ram Rod" 149 Posts 2/06
Posted - Nov 22 2009 : 9:48PM
I am sold, say what you want, there will be always someone willing to defend anything no matter how disturbing. Gia and Ashley are serious hardcore girls who can take a licking and if they were truly scared (not acting scared) and upset by the scene, this by default tells us two things. A- They were not fully informed ergo they could not offer fully informed consent B-Khan purposefully went well over the line of safety to hurt/humiliate his talent In many scenes (such as Pureheart's) he even has the girl give their real name and then calls them by their real name. In Taryn's scene he tried to get her to talk about her little sister and give her real name. I could go on and on, and I am sure Lube n Luv or someone will sweep in and tell me and the rest of us how we are all idiots, but two veteran, very hardcore actresses who speak so horribly about their experience with him are enough to sell me that he gets off on this stuff in real life, and it is not a movie to him.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 2:42AM
To clarify, Gia didn't say that Khan stepped over any lines with her, she is a friend of his and said that the scenes where the girls breakdown on Meatholes are not faked.
Hello Everyone. If Khan Tusion is no longer producing porn, I sure won't miss it. He is self-conscious about the size of his manhood à la Max Hardcore.
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StillHope Deactivated User
"You didn't say Car Ram Rod" 149 Posts 2/06
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 12:13PM
Hmmm... thanx for the clarification on Gia. Let me clarify my position as to hopefully halt arguments that I already agree with... I have no problem with the S&M lifestyle I have no problem with rough sex The issue at hand is this: Khan is degrading, verbally and mentally abusing the actual woman, not the actress nor the role she is playing. Hence, the use of the real first names, the talk of real family, their real life, etc... "But...but...she signed up for it" No, she signed up for a rough sex scene, it is clear from the testimony of actresses involved and even Khan himself that they had no idea it was going to be the way it was. Khan says in many of his videos "You didn't expect it to get so serious, did you?" and the genuine look of distress, anger and confusion is a dead giveaway. "But...but...some people like that stuff" If by some people, you mean the women, yes a select few do. But my research has shown me that over 60% didn't like it, they hated working for him and would never work for him again "But...but...are you trying to say all porn stars are victims?" No, but being put in a situation where you don't have all the facts and then being mentally abused as a person (again, not an actress) does indeed make you a victim, regardless of the amount of pay. "But...but...they could stop the scene at any time" True, and I agree they do bear some culpability for not saying stop using my real name, stop talking about my family, etc... Most actresses just want to get it over with. I could go on and on, but my final point is this: I used to be a General Manager of a movie theater. I supervised 25 employees and 5 assistant managers. Most of those employees and am's still call me today and visit me and tell me I was a great boss. I still got them to work hard and ran a good theater. That is the kind of boss I wanted to be. I didn't want to be the kind of boss where people hated me, talked bad about me and my company, etc... because in the end it only hurt me and my company. Khan is that guy, yes he gets people to work for him because of the money, but he has very few repeats and most people in the biz seemed truly genuinely upset by the experience. Call it what you want, buyer's remorse or whatever, the truth is that if these girls knew 100% what they were getting into and what to expect, they would have hardly any problem with him. "Oh Khan, he is pretty hardcore but I enjoyed working with him. He was very professional and made sure I felt comfortable every step of the way." Can you imagine how much more thriving his Meatholes series would be if that was the attitude of the majority of the people that worked with him? Just sayin'
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 5:09PM
Good points Stillhope, I think even in porn a bad reputation has a way of catching up with you, that's why Max was reduced to working with third-string talent or the occasional newbie who went on to being more successful (eg. Rebecca Linares). Perhaps the same thing happened to Tusion? Or did the shrinking market drive him out? When we have Jake Malone and Mason I don't see why anyone would settle for the likes of Tusion or Max.
Look. You can't expect people who don't have all the information to go on a crusade against Khan Tusion. The clip that was posted earlier was the first time I've actually heard anything straight from one of the girls who worked with him who said she hated it and probably was not prepared for what happened. I didn't research it. I haven't been all over the internet looking for evidence of what I already knew (That KT wasn't a nice man). I assumed the girls could take care of themselves. I assumed that if I could guess that he was a shady character just from watching a few sample clips, the girls would be able to see it even more easily than I. If that isn't true, porn has a big problem that's only going to get worse. Your post addresses a lot of things very well and I can't argue with most of it but it doesn't touch on what I think is the most critical point. How is it that girls who worked for KT and had a really bad experience didn't warn other girls about him? You'd think it would take only so many and nobody would work for him anymore. At the end of the day, the performer's last line of defense against someone like Khan is their own discretion. Edited by - randomprecision on 11/23/2009 5:23:58 PM Edited by - randomprecision on 11/23/2009 5:24:51 PM
If the Taryn Thomas and Ashley Blue scenes still freak people out, I can't believe no one has mentioned the one by some lesser-known performer, Railee. To me, that's the scene that defined the site. I'm pretty sure this chick likely checked into the nearest mental institution and probably slit her wrists immediately after her shoot. [Link]
^ That scene is disgusting.Jake Malone ought to be ashamed of himself for being involved in that.
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StillHope Deactivated User
"You didn't say Car Ram Rod" 149 Posts 2/06
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:56AM
Random, Thanks for your response, I appreciate you reading what I had to say. Nikki Hunter I believe, is another one who said she was pretty freaked out over the scene. The point, as aforementioned, is that yes, the girls absolutely bear some culpability, but in the long run I think Khan, as a person, gets off on this stuff. I do not believe for one second he is doing it simply for the name of art, mainly due to his methodology. As far as girls warning each other, there are a plethora of factors as to why that doesn't happen. Models don't all talk to each other for one. Two, I have seen Khan go lighter on some girls than others (which, if I was a conspiracy theorist, would say is so he can get upper end talent in his studio i.e. if he goes light on girl a, then girl a will tell girl b it is cool, and then Khan is 1 hex harder on girl b) Three, spite; four, girls don't want to report this kind of stuff because just like in other biz's they want to seem like team players and get bookings. Five, like Ashley said in her video, I just don't like to talk about it, etc... I mean, once again let's look at this logically. He literally choked her (Ashley Blue) into unconsciousness while yelling at her to put her hands behind her back. She wasn't acting, it wasn't special effects, he choked her out. That's not normal nor should it be acceptable by any standards, even the S&M, hardcore fetish crowd; furthermore, he mentally degrades and abuses women to the point of emotional eruption. No acting involved, these women are breaking down and loosing it on camera. Finally, before the avengers fly in, I once again say I have no problem with rough sex or degradation style porn as long as everyone knows what is involved and everyone is cool with it and they are made to feel like actual actresses. Huge difference between made to feel like you are acting the part of a cheap whore than actually being treated like one and told u are one. Edited by - stillhope on 11/24/2009 11:58:03 AM
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Goudah Deactivated User
15 Posts 11/09
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 12:07PM
I'm new and all that but my 2pence is that meatholes is wrong, I don't understand who wants to watch it, and more so who get's off on it. who wants to choke a woman? I don't know who wants to do the majority of the ugly stuff that apparently renders it niche, it's niche because no one wants it. The footage all speaks for itself, you can't defend it by saying it's acting. It's in my opinion just shameful. I know there's probably all types of things that someone somewhere will enjoy, but that doesn't make it right.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 12:30AM
^It's not right to you. But that doesn't make it wrong to everyone else. To the rest of us, it's just porn. Nothing I have seen so far is grounds for all this outrage. If we were watching legitimate actresses give the same performances in a mainstream movie, no one would care. But because there's sex involved, then let's all grab our torches and stampede up to Khan's castle.I don't know whether she is or not. Maybe what she said is true. Maybe it isn't. Maybe it's true in some cases, but not others. How does she know? Was she there? Did the girls share this information with her themselves? Maybe if it's true that she's a friend of Khan, then she was only saying it to garner publicity for the site by making people think that it's "real." Who knows? I just happen to believe that people are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves.Here is my response. Those are two girls, out of several, giving their opinions. As Ashley said in her interview (if it's genuine and not just done for publicity of the scene), she can't speak for all the other girls, only for herself. Porn girls perform scenes that they don't enjoy, and later regret, quite frequently. It's not uncommon. We hear about almost every girl who has ever worked in the indusrty having atleast one horror story about being in porn. I don't see anything unusual about the interview, other than my skepticism of its veracity. I'm not saying it's not true. But publicity sells. After all, the other guy who choked her in that video (I think her boyfriend at the time) sounded like the same guy filming the interview. They both have performed for Khan in more than one scene. Thus, my skepticism of its sincerity. I just don't understand why people feel the need to fully believe everything they see, especially when it comes to entertainment and those who publicize it.That accounts for almost all of the world's population. Fortunately, that's why we have mouths. Nobody has to be able to read your eyes (or your mind) when you can just tell people what you're feeling. When someone's choking you, and they stop to ask if you're OK, and you say "It's OK," then who do you have to blame for someone not being able to read your eyes?Jake Malone has filmed some really extreme scenes of his own. Again, why should he be ashamed? There are many who would say that Jake and Khan, along with everyone else in the industry, should be ashamed for making porn at all. Do you agree with that?
The girl in that scene is obviously in great distress. She is bawling uncontrollably. To continue fucking her as if there is nothing wrong is simply inhuman. To have total disregard for other's feelings is something to be ashamed of, and if you can't see that I don't know what else to say.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 2:15AM
Jordan told me this in the same breath that she said Khan was no longer working. It was in a conversation about why I didn't like Khan's material, so by telling me that in a private conversation for a site that pretty much doesn't exist anymore, for somebody who no longer works in the industry, I can't see how your rationale makes any sense.As I figured, nothing will convince you. Your rationalizations are transparent. How would Ashley Blue's interview, for a director she never worked for again, be a form of promotion for the scene? It's not like she's collecting royalties or is out to do Khan any favours. Also the other guy who choked her in the video was clearly not the same guy filming the interview, that was the fat out-of-shape body of Khan Tusion. How you could claim otherwise is beyond me, his hands are much larger and hairier than the male performer. You can hear Khan talking off camera while the male performer is on camera, is he also a ventriloquist?
I'm amazed this is still generating debate. There must have been a dozen threads on the same theme beginning when the site launched (back in 2003. I think). The Ashley Blue clip was pulled from the site at a certain point. And I think it was exactly that sort of fare that attracted the FBI ... Khan, not a dumb guy, was wise enough to reel it in rather than follow Max and Rob Black into the prison system and spend a fortune on legal fees. Interestingly, he's the only one of the three who actually might have killed somebody. And he's the guy who isn't in jail. Just sayin'. Edited by - skronker on 11/25/2009 2:48:52 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 2:50AM
You're right, this is old news, I just thought that realtip's claim that it was all made-up, according to pretty much anyone who was involved, just wasn't true. Khan definitely always struck me in interviews to be fairly well spoken and intelligent, so it's not surprising that he saw the writing on the wall before others.
Well... it's porn. Nuff said, really. The industry is known to deceive and prey on the naive and insecure. Real world logic doesn't seem relevant in this context.
^ Some in the industry are known for that. Not all. And some of the girls are smarter than I am (And smarter than at least half of their fans). I think there must be more to it. I don't think a girl must be totally devoid of common sense to do porn. All I know is that if I choked any woman into unconsciousness in my bedroom, I'd be in jail by tomorrow.
Anastasia Blue, who worked for Max several times, committed suicide a while back. And his sidekick Catalina checked into an institution. They're all quite the ladies men.
When Mortal Kombat came out and the fanfare over that started, the video game industry decided to police itself by using a rating system. The same holds true for the MPAA, the industry decided to police itself. The issue is that porn is not policing itself. If it was, you may even see a return the golden age of porn. But instead, you are seeing people like Khan, Max, Rob, etc... Also, someone said there is sex involved and that is why we must grab our torches; what a sophomoric retort. That has nothing to do with it at all, it has to do with the level of consent involved and also the fact that there is real physical action involved, not cgi effects. A good example would Haley Scott's Donkey Punch Scene. Yes, she knew she would be donkey punched, but no, she did not know it would be so many times. How do I know this? At the end, the guy donkey punches her 3-4 times. After the 4th time she holds her hand over the back of her head as to indicate enough. She doesn't want to break character during the money shot, so she says nothing. She lifts her head to look at the camera and wham, he punches her again (#5) and she again puts her hand over her head, but this time she breaks character and says very forcefully "ST...OP" The male performer totally ignores her (and yes he could hear her, trust me her body lang alone was enough, but she said stop loud enough for everyone in the room to hear it, including the directors Grip and Cram). He whacks her again, she literally has to jump away from him, stand up and get in his face for him to stop. That is beyond ridiculous that a performer has to go to such lengths. How come the director wasn't like "Ok, we got enough punches, chill out" or "Ok, 3 punches was enough, we don't want to cause brain damage, etc.." no, he just let him keep punching to his heart's content. What if it had been a more weak willed performer? Khan falls into this category of letting things get way out of hand and not policing himself. The less vocal the porn community is about how this is out of bounds, the more the government will be vocal for you. Just sayin'
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 9:30PM
^What do you mean by "police itself?" The video game and mainstream film industries instituted ratings criteria so that people will know the content of they material before they view it. There is no rule barring certain acts from being shown, only that people must be warned about them. There's a difference. There are still plenty of violent and sexualized video games and movies on the market. They just let you know about it before you buy them. Porn already does the same thing. Khan made no attempt to conceal the type of porn he was making. One glance at the site was all it took to know that it was rough extreme gonzo porn. Thus, if you don't like, then why watch it only to later complain about it? It's like going to a rated-R slasher flick and then complaining that there's too much blood and gore, despite the fact that you already knew that before going in. Plus, the government attack on porn has nothing to do with porn not "policing itself." Porn can do all the "policing" it wants, and it won't stop people from demanding that it eradicated. From what I understand, much of the porn made during the "golden age" was enough to make Khan and Max look like Disney movies. In all areas except race, porn has only gotten more politically-correct since then, not less so. Therefore, the attacks are nothing more than political tactics done to appease the large segment of the population that is opposed to porn- all porn. I agree that the porn industry should be more vocal, but not in regards to attacking others within the industry. This type of division only makes the industry appear fragmented and weak. Regardless of whether it's vanilla porn, or whether it's appealing to a particular fetish or niche, as long as it involves consenting adults, then the government needs to leave all of it alone. This is the issue where the industry, and those who support it, needs to be more vocal, regardless of who you like or don't like.If you say so. BlackSix, Whatever private correspondence you have with a pornstar is between you and that person. I cannot comment on it since I'm not privy to it. Perhaps she told you something that the rest of us don't know. Maybe whatever she told you is true. Maybe it isn't. Quite frankly, it's not something I find all that important to try to figure out. I don't look that seriously into it. To me, porn is simply entertainment to be enjoyed. I'm as convinced that this stuff is real as I'm convinced that there are munchkins in a land called Oz. If the girls don't want to do it, then they don't have to. Simple as that. Also, in the chkoing scene with Ashley Blue, there is another guy who enters the scene later (not Khan) to choke Ashley after Khan does it. I was saying that this is the same guy who I suspect is filming Ashley's interview where she talks about Khan.While I am inclined to agree with you, your comment is heresy to some people here. Apparently, these adult women are all too stupid, fragile, and helpless to be able to make their own decisions. It is obviously the responsibility of men on a porn forum, who don't know anything about these women aside from what we see in a few moments of footage, to come to their rescue and save them from the perils of evil pornographers. It's absolutely unbelievable that these women have managed to survive this long without us holding their hands and playing "Big Brother" to them their whole lives.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Nov 25 2009 : 9:53PM
I don't know how you manged to pull off a MK reference in a Khan Tusion thread (probably cause I haven't seen it), but that's pretty impressive. The only pseudo-association I can think of is the final MK-II boss (Shao Kahn)
Fair enough but when a guy like Khan or Max comes along who is determined to do what he wants, what is the rest of the industry supposed to do about it? I'm guessing that it's not that difficult to start your own web site (since there are so many of them) and just bypass the industry altogether. I may be a little naive about it but it seems to me that as long as the guy can sell his stuff to somebody, he doesn't even really need the industry. What are they supposed to do? And how do they get people who don't give a damn to help?
So Max made them insane? Msybe they were already insane, which is why they flocked to Max? [huh?] My point waa that Khan taped a potentially criminal act -- and put it online. I don't think anything Max or Black put out on tape was pushing that line. Whether you liked it or not. Yet, the Feds found ways to get them. I merely found that interesting. Edited by - skronker on 11/26/2009 3:24:10 AM
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 5:54AM
^Emphasis on "and put it online." I've asked the question here repeatedly as to why pornographers who fear prosecution don't just stick to keeping their content on-line rather than shipping it. Remember, the Feds got Max and Rob on shipping videos, not on making videos. The reason they probably didn't get Khan is exactly for the reason you mentioned, which is that he was smart enough not to ship to places where he would likely encounter trouble. You can't be accused of violating a "community standard" of a place if you don't mail anything there. Edited by - realtip on 11/26/2009 6:02:58 AM
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StillHope Deactivated User
"You didn't say Car Ram Rod" 149 Posts 2/06
Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 9:58AM
Classic, love it. The rest of you make good points, I think what you are saying is we have no right to draw any lines at all, and that there is no line. I retort that when you whole point in life is to cause women to have a mental breakdown and them film it, you have crossed a line. As Billy Preston said, "Will It Go Round In Circles" , and so it will. I believe a person's mental and physical health come before the consumer's enjoyment.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 2:18PM
That is a pretty big assumption to make based on, ohhhhh, nothing. The guy in the scene is Trent Tesoro, who has no director credits. The guy who was interviewing Ashley is the former porn-director Sam Benjamin. I don't know Benjamin's porn pseudonym but he is clearly not Tesoro, as they don't look alike. So your theory is shot to shit right there.In other words, you never cared if the story was true or not anyway, as long as you can get your nut off. Nothing will convince you that anything that happens in porn is real, ever. You could have saved us all a lot of time by just being honest with yourself and saying that upfront. For someone who doesn't care, you apparently don't mind inventing your own elaborate back stories, with zero evidence and odd conjecture, in an attempt to cast doubt on the Ashley Blue interview.
This is exactly what I was thinking - dismiss those irritating little voices that have the courage to speak up about their experiences so it doesn't spoil your porn. You know, you can acknowledge traumatic and abusive situations in porn without tarring all studios/scenes/movies with the same brush, just like in other industries.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 2:38PM
I've never understand why one would bother watching the likes of Khan or Max when there's quality, hot and clearly consensual rough sex being shot by Silvera, Rocco, Mason, Malone and Belladonna. Edited by - BlackSix on 11/26/2009 2:42:49 PM
And on that fateful day, the hatred consumed me... 1423 Posts 3/09
Posted - Nov 26 2009 : 2:56PM
^Well, if it's been made, it'll find an audience. That's just the nature of porn... Pushing the edge of legality/consent also has its appeal to some. The self-justifying in evidence by some of its audience I find fascinating.
Indeed. I don't have a problem if people admit they like this kind of thing. That's their business. But things like the delusion of 'everything in porn is fake' is some whacked out nonsense of holocaust-denial proportions. It's a scary league of insanity.
The ugly truth is there are quite a few porn watchers who get off on non-consensual degradation The shady aspects of Khan Tusion, Max Hardcore etc. makes the material more appealing to them, not less so It is a bitter irony. Sex scenes that are not sex-positive...
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Nov 27 2009 : 11:40AM
Thanks for pointing out who shot the Ashley Blue interview. Now that you've told us who it was, I can put my suspicions to rest. As for whether or not some things that happen in porn are real, it stands to reason that some things are, just as it stands to reason that there are probably some actors who get hurt while performing their own stunts for movies. That doesn't change the fact that it's still only entertainment. Yes, I watch porn only to get off. For what other reason does anyone watch it? I also explicitly said several posts ago that I find porn to be only fantasy, and not reality. So I never skirted around that fact. No, you haven't managed me to convince me otherwise. I wish it weren't so important for you to feel like you have to do so. As for the Ashley Blue interview, I pointed out my skepticism of it, and explained why I doubted it. But other than that, it was never a point to try prove to anyone whether or not she is telling the truth. People can make their own decisions about that. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's false. Either way, people are still going to watch what they enjoy watching. I know I will.Why do people bother being vegetarians when there is an abundance of delicious steak and poultry available? Who do people bother watching foreign films when there are so many good American films they can watch? Why do people bother listening to rock music when hip-hop is so much more popular? I like some of the guys you mentioned too. But just because someone likes Rocco and Malone doesn't mean they can't also enjoy Max or Khan. Or maybe they just simply like one and not the other because that's just what they like. You know, everyone doesn't have to like the same things you like.Who's dismissing anyone's experiences? I'm all for performers in the industry speaking honestly about their experiences, if they so choose. But again, why should that affect what I choose to watch? Would you stop watching a mainstream movie if an actor/actress in it later said that they regretted starring in it? Maybe it's true that a performer had a negative experience. But that's life. It has nothing to do with enjoying porn.If one feels guilty about something as trivial as watching porn, then he shouldn't be watching it at all. I see no reason to feel guilty about it, neither do I find any reason to be bothered by finding a sexual fetish stimulating. That's just stupid. If it turns you on, then so what. It's not that those of us who enjoy it feel guilty about it or question the morality of how stimulating it is. To the contrary, it's the people who don't enjoy who feel that way. But, for some reason, you feel the need to project your own potential guilt and self-reproach onto the rest of us. Maybe you should stop watching porn.Not nearly as insane, or irritating, as people who compare everything they don't like to the Holocaust. To which other horrendous historical atrocities can we exaggerate a comparison to porn? For someone who talks about "real world logic," you don't appear to have much of a reasonable grasp of the real world.
And on that fateful day, the hatred consumed me... 1423 Posts 3/09
Posted - Nov 27 2009 : 2:05PM
No, you've missed the point of my post entirely. Over the course of this thread, you've gone to great lengths to (initially) convince the world that in porn 'none of it is real' (your words - page 1 of this thread). When faced with the reality that indeed, some of it was real, we came to the real crux that YOU DO NOT CARE either way, as long as it provides sexual relief (after all, porn's just "trivial"). That's absolutely fine. I do not care that you do not care. It's your business. You should just have admitted that to begin with, as that was never the point of the argument. I was merely pointing out why somebody who potentially did have a conscience about what they watch to get themselves off, would aim to carry out the mental gymnastics needed to justify to themselves and others how something that may be morally dubious/reprehensible is of no real consequence, to make themselves feel better in case it went against their general moral code in most aspects of how they normally see themselves. This was some of the behavoiour you seemed to display, given the lengths you went to prove your point. As for bringing it back to me... Are you serious???! I have ABSOLUTELY NO GUILT about what I watch! Understand: I love porn (and sex - when it comes my way)... I do however (like most other people) possess a level of objectivity in what I choose to watch. I do not watch anything, if it's not to my liking or is something that makes me uncomfortable (acknowledging that yes, some things are real, and actually quite nasty), I won't go ahead and whack off to it. It's called being responsible for your own viewing habits, and applies to everything that a person is exposed to. The whole reason why everyone's jumped on you, is that you came with the notion that, for whatever reason (your genuine motives are your own), the action in porn isn't real... No-one else here agrees with this point. Ma Meeshka's Holocaust analogy - whilst extreme - is comparable in the same manner that some people (religious zealots for example), will shut out all voices of reason and evidence that goes against the idea/agenda they're pushing.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Nov 27 2009 : 4:39PM
Evidently, it's not something that I find relevant to the same extent that you and some others do. When I wrote that "none of it is real," it was a generalized expression applying to porn as a whole; no different from you saying that "everyone's jumped" on me, or "No-one else here agrees" with me, when it's actually only about three or four of you who bothered to make a fuss over it. That's hardly "everybody." I guess we both were speaking in general terms. Nonetheless, in making such a fuss, you went through much greater lengths than I did simply to prove that my opinion has to be the incorrect one. You are right about one thing though. I should never have said that porn isn't real. Had I known that acknowledging the fact that porn bears no resemblance at all to real-world situations would be such a controversial statement, I would have reconsidered my statement. I must have forgotten where I was for a moment. People are entitled to their opinions, and the fact that some of you disagree with mine doesn't bother me. I'm absolutely cool with that. Also, I believe that this must be the first time I've ever heard anyone mention having a "conscience" about watching porn. We're not watching live executions here. It's just sex- legal consensual sex. I do have a moral conscience which dictates my life and decisions. However, my conscience is not at all violated by the viewing of sex scenes between legally consenting adults. I don't know where you got the idea that it would be, or should be. Thus, the only reasonable answer was a projection of your own feelings onto me. I also like porn and sex. Hell, I'm here on a porn forum, aren't I? Like you and, according to you, most other people, I also do not watch anything, or that which makes me uncomfortable. But I watch what I like. It's not because I want to go into deep profound thought on the authenticity of what I'm watching. I've already stated my view on that. But only because I like it. That's the only reason. Likewise, if I don't like it, then I simply don't watch it. I feel no need to perform a thorough background investigation into the director, or search the Internet looking for Q&A sessions with performers to hear their personal reflections. I don't find any of that necessary. If I don't like it, then I just won't watch it. Simple as that. Just as you insist on being responsible for our own viewing habits, so let everyone else be responsible for theirs. Additionally, while I agree with your final point about zealots who push their own agendas, I will also point out that there are always people like that on both sides of an issue. The analogy you give of the type of ignorance we often see exemplified in all types of fanatics is comparable to those who advocate the idea of censoring anything which simply makes them uncomfortable.
I appreciate that instead of denying that you're delusional you implicitly acknowledge your insanity. My comparison wasn't to porn, it was to you. Your perspective is upside down. You also seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Nov 28 2009 : 8:25AM
There's no reason for me to deny or implicitly acknowledge anything about myself, atleast not to you. As I've said before, your opinions are yours. I don't care enough to try to change them. It's yet another thing that I consider trivial and unimportant. According to you, the mere acknowledgement that porn is fake (i.e., not real) is in on the same level as denying the Holocaust. Wow! Since I always find it funny when mindless people call other people insane, I should be laughing my ass off right now. But this is just way too sad to find funny. The fact that I even have to address this point to explain how stupid this whole thing is to another adult (you are an adult, right?) is really quite depressing. Hopefully, you'll grow up one day. Pornography: 1. Formally defined as "the depiction of explicit sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual excitement." 2. As the most graphically sexualized genre of entertainment currently legally available, video pornography hires paid professional sex workers to perform illicit sexual acts for the enjoyment of the viewer. 3. It is fiction, reflecting only sexual fantasy. 4. Performers must legally give consent to enage in any acts either performed, filmed, or distributed for commercial purposes. 5. Like all other forms of mass entertainment, pornographic scenes always either follow a script, or use improvised dialogue. 6. Almost always requires performers to lie about their names, ages, first sexual acts performed, etc. Some girls even claim to be virgins when they are not. 7. If you think porn is real, then try using it as a model for real life. Become a pizza delivery boy, or a mailman, or try to pick up cute girls in a van by telling them you're filming a documentary. Then, please share with us how successful all these acts were in achieving the same results seen in porn. In other words, porn is as "real" as reality TV, or professional wrestling. The people are paid performers, the situations are fictionalized, and everything we see has been consented by a legal adult capable of making his/her own decisions. Even the sex doesn't reflect the sex that people actually have in real life. And more than that, people have the choice not to watch it. If you still choose to think it's all real, then that's up to you. If you don't like Khan Tusion, then that's also up to you. But to say that pointing out that porn is as fake is like denying the Holocaust? That's just pathetic. There must be something seriously wrong with you.
Exactly - this is all true, as is the fact that sometimes things don't go according to plan, and people are hurt/taken advantage of, but they signed a consent form or a release, so there's nothing they can do about it (except talk about it, which some performers have done). Your comparison between porn and reality tv/wrestling is astute, and I think this should help you understand that even though it's all set up to a degree, there is always room for unexpected and "authentic" moments, as we have witnessed in reality tv, wrestling, and porn. I think you do understand this, so I'm wondering why you don't concede that sometimes terrible things happen in porn (just like in many different types of entertainment work) - doing so doesn't mean the entire industry is inherently abusive, or that you can't still enjoy your particular tastes in porn. It just means that you're an aware consumer who cares about the well-being of performers.
SHAO KAHN WINS