Lesbian Students - review by Danielmayu33216| Author | Post |
|---|---|
| pandoras box Member  step inside the box 6 Posts 11/07 |  Posted - Nov 5 2007 : 2:40PMIs there still a solid market for porn features? It seems as though feature production has been declining (forgive me if I am stating the obvious) since gonzo became popular. I would have to assume there are still viewers out there interested in a good storyline with hardcore sex. Personally, I think the build-up is hot. Topic Moved by - steph on Nov 5 2007  [Link] |
| pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04 | Posted - Nov 5 2007 : 3:31PM I like features because they're usually glossy compared to grungy gonzo, and the actors have a little more time to build up a rapport, so the sex scenes are more fun. However I would also say most features suffer from too much sex (!) for my liking, they quickly become repetative and dull. I would prefer shorter scenes but with more punch.  [Link] |
Savoy  All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Nov 5 2007 : 4:00PM People blast PT for his short sex scenes, but there has got to be a middle ground. [Link] |
| Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Nov 6 2007 : 12:08PM I'd much rather see features that had maybe ten shorter scenes than five long ones, but the received wisdom among porn directors, even those who do features, seem to be that costumers want long scenes. Of course, if you have shorter sex scenes it puts higher demands on the editing (the area where I feel PT's movies tend to fall short), so maybe people are just taking the easy route. [Link] |
| pandoras box Member step inside the box 6 Posts 11/07 | Posted - Nov 6 2007 : 1:56PM I have written feature scripts for porn before and it is frustrating having to add in that 5th sex scene if it doesn't flow. Even watching a sex scene in porn where it gets to the point when you think "okay when is this going to end" because it keeps going on to the point where it isn't hot anymore. [Link] |
| pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04 | Posted - Nov 6 2007 : 2:52PM In most sex scenes when you see a cock go into a cunt it's exciting, when you see it again and again the impact is lessoned. However, saying that, cutting a scene where a couple with genuine chemistry go at it with gusto is a crime and yet happens all too often for my liking. But this raises another question: should sex scenes be choreographed, or should the performers simply be allowed to get on with it while the camera watches with impartiality? Probably a mixture of the two would be better. I remember reading some time ago that Michael Nin always regarded the censored version of his movies (18 rated in the UK) to be better than the uncensored... but maybe he was just trying to flog the censored DVDs. [Link] |
| Robert Member My past is a foreign country. Most things are different there, including word usage. 503 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Nov 6 2007 : 3:49PM I can also appreciate Pandora's Box comment "..."okay when is this going to end" because it keeps going on to the point where it isn't hot anymore." Filtering porn features is all about removing the parts that are a turn-off and leaving the parts that are a turn-on. I nearly always have to shorten the 'Cum Shot' when the male is desperately strokin (and strokin) to achieve orgasm. Of course, those parts can vary from person to person (couple to couple) but I think it would be fairly easy for a director/producer/writer to filter to the point where sales of a filtered version would excede those of a censored version and with a filtered version available, it might even beat the sales of the uncensored version. It certainly would increase total sales (and probably profits). Just MHO. [Link] |
| Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Nov 6 2007 : 4:02PM I suspect that there might be a real couples market for features that would break the current mould and where there would be genuine build-ups to the sex (instead of what we see in the sorry excuses of couples movies that seem to be about making something that is bland enough so that guys can get away with watching them together with their wifes or girlfriends). Good build-ups can be really sexy, but standard by-the-numbers porn build-ups are more like an insult to people's intelligence. Not hot. [Link] |
| HarryWild Member Make me believe 622 Posts 2/05 | Posted - Nov 9 2007 : 12:50AM [Link] |
| caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07 | Posted - Nov 12 2007 : 2:11PM produced, WICKED, Digital Playground, Vivid etc. But its true, if you take it in relation to the whole market, its declining, because zillions of mindless gonzo fuck-suck-"take this!" movies are produced. [Link] |
| Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Nov 12 2007 : 10:28PM [Link] |
| Derek117 Senior Member 1605 Posts 1/06 | Posted - Dec 2 2007 : 1:53PM There are other reasons we get so few features: they cost more (sets & locations, clothing & props, etc.), plus they require "some" ability to handle dialogue--and "portray" a character--by the performers. But, mostly, features require a director who can do more than point a camera and say "everybody fuck." He/she needs to be able to tell a story. Paul Thomas use to be the Porn Master at combining storytelling with erotic sex, but he has lost his touch. He hasn't been able to tell a coherent story since about 1999; and as both "Emperor," "Sextet," and his remakes of "Debbie Does Dallas" and "Devil & Miss Jones" prove, he no longer films erotic sex--but is competing with the "hard sex" element of the biz. Which is disappointing considering Thomas made some of the best erotic features in porn history, like: "Things Change," "Letting Go," as well as "sexvid novellas" like "The Brat" series. But, there is hope. Porn keeps changing...often going back to "older' genres, when the fans are tired of the current trend. And there are many signs that the days of gonzo are over. So, if the industry can attract a few new talented directors (or if Thomas gets his "mojo" back)features can make a big come-back. My guess is that there are plenty of non-gonzo porn girls (Stormy, Monique Alexander, Kayden Kross) who would welcome a return to features. [Link] |
| Eli Cross Member What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06 | Posted - Dec 2 2007 : 4:58PM Fact is, those are just tough to do and produce something good. When you're trying to shoot an entire movie in two days, time is money, and there's never enough of both. Also, the industry simply isn't attracting directors anymore. The current industry qualifications to direct are a camera and an opposable thumb; if you've got those, you're a director. As a rule, for gonzo that's fine. But to create a feature that works structurally at all, it helps to have some idea how to make a movie, and there are very few people who can do that coming into the business. Those of us who have had that training (not saying I'm any good at it, just that I'm supposed to know what I'm doing) are just getting older and dustier. [Link] |
| Derek117 Senior Member 1605 Posts 1/06 | Posted - Dec 2 2007 : 9:26PM Plus as the adult industry becomes more and more "internet-based," directors possessing professional training in film-making techniques, screen-writing, editing and acting will be even fewer. The glimmer of hope in all this is if fans continue to flock to the internet for their gonzo and non-feature porn fix, the porn studios that survive may decide that their niche in the biz is story-driven features. And since, as you say, the industry is not attracting film-school trained directors, my hope is that studios will begin pairing promising directing talent with experienced pros who can teah them the ins-and-outs of directing features. Afterall, Clint Eastwood learned to direct by acting/observing in several films directed by Don Siegel (Dirty Harry), who learned his craft in 1950s television. In porn, David Stanley got his hands-on experience working under Paul Thomas at Vivid. Could be the way to train new directors in porn. [Link] |
| Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 4:19AM Of course, gonzo directors can evolve from glorified camera-men into feature directors, but the ability to tell a coherent story is not anything you learn by shooting close-ups of gapes. [Link] |
 | |
| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 9:02AM Nobody directed that much feature classics. But nobody directed that much run-of-the-mill features either. If I were him I would concentrate on directing two big productions per year and leave the monthly stuff to new directors.I don't consider Stormy middle-aged. [Link] |
| Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 9:39AM [Link] |
| Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 9:51AM Edited by - tristram on 12/3/2007 10:01:21 AM [Link] |
| Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 10:01AM . So I can understand how someone would perceive Wicked as middle-aged. Their talent pool is older. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Not taking artistic risks, not growing as a director, losing your creative ambition and repeating the same dreck over and over is far more offensive to me. Guess that's why David Stanley is my favorite out of the whole lot. Edited by - Savoy on 12/3/2007 10:05:22 AM [Link] |
| Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 10:21AM I completely don't agree with the older man/young woman thing. Yes it happens, but I've seen more younger male performers in her titles than any of the other Wicked directors. She does tend to direct the girlier stories she writes so I guess that would explain the daytime soap feel, but it's not that bad. Jeez. I can't stand daytime soaps and I can watch a Stormy-directed flick from start to finish. I for one would like to see her direct a feature that is a little darker, a little more mature, more layered, more emotionally complex and not a romantic comedy. But her work fills a void. It is incredibly female-friendly. I can only imagine how many husbands are grateful to her for making porn that their wives will watch. [Link] |
| Eli Cross Member What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 2:18PM Even PT, who no one would argue is the industry's 800 pound gorilla of feature directors, doesn't get to call all of his own shots. He has to make x number of shows per year, and most of them will not be big-budget films. Having shot for virtually every feature company, I can tell you what's really at issue here is company persona. Vivid will allow you more story leeway (within limits -- nothing too dark or serious) as long as you can tell that story within the budget you've been given. Yes, PT gets to break more rules than the other directors, but he still gets told "no" quite often. Also, Vivid saddles you with one or more contract girls, some of whom are extremely difficult to work with for a variety of reasons, and you have to make them work in the story. Then, to make matters worse, Vivid takes the movie away and gives it to their in-house editors who allow very little director input and who are, IMO, very poor. The best editor they ever had -- Sonny Malone, who PT used to have cut all of his important shows -- is gone. Wicked used to allow the occasional dark storyline, but they've become the happy, fluffy, good, clean family porn company in the last few years. They have managed to out-do Adam & Eve at the soap opera porn game, and that's saying something. I've said before that to my mind, Wicked is very much targeting their product towards a "couples market" aesthetic that no longer exists. It's porn for 70-year-old who didn't grow up watching softcore on cable. Even for the contract directors, getting any project moved through Wicked is a chore, and if it doesn't fit a very narrow "tone" that the company wants to project, it's unlikely it will get made, and if it does, it certainly won't get heavily promoted. You'll notice David Stanley -- who is definitely the odd man out over there -- frequently sees his projects languish in obscurity. [Link] |
| Robert Member My past is a foreign country. Most things are different there, including word usage. 503 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 4:15PM [Link] |
| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Dec 3 2007 : 7:18PM Don't Steve Hirsch and Steve Orenstein run their studios like the Hollywood moguls back in the old days?I have noticed that he often shoots films without the Wicked contract girls. Always wondered what's the reason. I like his inventive stories and intelligent dialogues. Would be great if Steve Orenstein gave him bigger budgets. [Link] |
| Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 3:09AM [Link] |
| Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 3:33AM Now, I can understand that her work is female-friendly in that from what I've seen it tended to be largely free from all those little annoying things that male directors tend to litter their stuff with. But for me it still felt like the type of porn that would be tolerable to half-reluctant wives rather than porn that is bona fide female-friendly. But, I'm a man, so I might have missed something and it would be interesting to hear more about what differentiates Stormy's work from that of her male peers at Wicked. Edited by - tristram on 12/4/2007 3:34:34 AM [Link] |
| caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2007 : 4:33PM " I never thought, that porn movies had a story and real dialogues ", a german women said to me last week. "I dont liked the story, but I was able to watch the movie to the end. I wouldnt even dare to enter the porn section in a videostore. I am not a big fan of this, but I will try to watch another of these feature movies - on TV" If I would direct porn movies, they would be in the style of japanese or korean art porn. Together with the easyness and joy that was inherit in the dutch porn movies of the 80s and 90s. [Link] |
| pil008 Member 138 Posts 12/04 | Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 5:57AM I would have thought that a company like Wicked would have tried to make a "The Dreamers" style movie and got it a theatrical release. Maybe they don't think there will be a market, or maybe distribution will be a problem. I agree with you, Caroline-NL. I haven't seen any Korean art-porn, but the Japanese stuff can be very good. [Link] |
| backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 9:50AM [Link] |
| caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07 | Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 3:55PM (South)-Korean porn movies are either crap ( cheaply made amateur movies or "porn" movies that are at least "NC-17" ), or little masterworks. Hardcore was forbidden until a few years ago in South-Korea. It is in a grey area now. Sometimes the government confiscates amateur porn, but they dont do this with "art porn". Sophisticated and intelligent porn hasnt the problems normal porn has. Photoplay and camera work are fantastic. Very attractive actresses, who really can act ! Some movies remind me of the "Bildsprache" (picture speak) of Wong Kar-Wei. ( The german word "Bildsprache" is the most correct one to describe it. I dont know a dutch or english word that would be 100% adequate. ) Its a sin, that so many excellent japanese and south-korean porn movies arent distributed in the USA or Europe. [Link] |
| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 4:16PM [Link] |
| Use the code below to link to this topic or a specific post. |
| URL of this thread |
| Link to this post with HTML |
| Link to this post with Forum Code |
