Porn Industry is making more money than ever

Author	Post
PornDirector Member 14 Posts 9/13	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 7:13PM I think the porn industry has been lieing to us. I think they are making more money than ever before. I don't see how they couldn't be. They say they aren't, but we then hear how it's still a billion dollar a year industry. Where is all that money going then? Before the internet, people had to buy porn DVDs in brick and mortar shops. The DVDs cost around $30-$40 as many shops marked them up to cover the costs of operating. This meant fewer DVDs were sold because people could only afford so many. Anyone who has ever been in a shop knows they rarely carry the DVDs you actually want. And a lot of people are nervous about actually going into these places. Now with the internet, many porn companies can actually sell their DVDs discreetly to people all around the world. There is less overhead from a brick and mortar shop so they get more of a cut on them as well. I think piracy dips into profits, but the profits are still far higher than they ever could be without the internet. Porn companies are just upset that profits aren't higher, but they are already extremely high. The internet alone is making all these guys multi-millionaires. There are guys who create just one small paysite with a model/pornstar and they make millions off just one website. Let alone these porn companies with their pay site AND their DVD sales of well known pornstars with a huge following. It seems like the best business model is to become a content creator/distributor. If you create enough content, that makes sense. You just hire someone to ship product out for you to all the major online retailers who want copies. If you sell just... 1,000 copies a month x $5 profit = $5,000 profit a DVD title x 12 months = $60,000 a year off of one porno title. That is more than most people make in a year with a 9 to 5 job. Do 10 DVDs and you are averaging $600,000 a year. Some of these porno companies have over 100 titles in their catalog! 100 x $60,000 = $6,000,000 And many are moving far more than 1,000 DVDs a month on average. I would estimate some companies move 100,000 copies of a very popular title and have a profit margin of around $10 a DVD = $1,000,000 off that DVD. Even if a million people around the world pirate it, they are still selling easily 100,000+ copies. Music CDs sell millions of copies, so some porno companies might even be selling a million copies of popular porno titles. We'll never know the truth. Edited by - porndirector on Sep 6 2013 [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 8:22PM ^Great theory but your facts are pure fantasy. You want proof then Google any movie title and see what search results you get. I'm pretty sure they will all be for a Tube or Torrent site. You want more proof then pick 4 of the major studios in business 3 years ago and then tell me if they are still in business. I'd say go five years but the story would be worse. Let me add more proof. Pick 10 performers that started in porn 5 years ago and then tell me when they stopped doing porn and then pick 10 that started a year ago and tell me if any of them are still in porn. [Link]
Macko69 Senior Member Gone for a walk. 1985 Posts 5/08	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 8:28PM PornDirector wrote: 1,000 copies a month x $5 profit = $5,000 profit a DVD title x 12 months = $60,000 a year off of one porno title. That is more than most people make in a year with a 9 to 5 job. Do 10 DVDs and you are averaging $600,000 a year. Some of these porno companies have over 100 titles in their catalog! 100 x $60,000 = $6,000,000 And many are moving far more than 1,000 DVDs a month on average. I would estimate some companies move 100,000 copies of a very popular title and have a profit margin of around $10 a DVD = $1,000,000 off that DVD. Click to expand I think 1,000 sold per month of any one title is wildly optimistic. According to a CNBC article I saw a while ago, the best selling adult dvd of all time sold about 30k copies. Most on the list sold about 10k copies. These are lifetime sales figures. I'd say it's probably more realistic to assume that you'll sell a few hundred copies per month of your more popular titles. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 8:58PM PornDirector wrote: I think the porn industry has been lieing to us. I think they are making more money than ever before. I don't see how they couldn't be. They say they aren't, but we then hear how it's still a billion dollar a year industry. Where is all that money going then? Click to expand Who is 'they'? The overall take from 'porn' may be a billion dollars but if enough of that billion doesn't make it back into the hands of the producers then they have no incentive to make any more movies. [Link]
BlasterDark Member 16 Posts 9/13	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 9:19PM Most porn companies are out of business because of illegal tube sites and pirates. This is really killed the business. We are down to a few select companies that have huge member bases to survive long term. I do believe porn would have a huge market if China legalizes porn. That's a huge cash flow that's waiting happen. pat362 wrote: I'd say go five years but the story would be worse. Let me add more proof. Pick 10 performers that started in porn 5 years ago and then tell me when they stopped doing porn and then pick 10 that started a year ago and tell me if any of them are still in porn. Click to expand I strongly disagree with your theory. Alot of girls quit because they're not getting work. We have to look at why they're not getting work. The most popular girls get so much work that it is hard for a new girl to get work consistently. If a new girl isn't popular then her workload will be small or nonexistent. I will give you plenty of names. Started Porn 5(more) years ago and are still active. 1.Nikki Benz 2.Rachel RoXXX 3.Rachel Starr 4.Lisa Ann 5.Audrey Bitoni 6.Phoenix Marie 7.Jayden Jaymes 8.Puma Swede 9.Angelina Valientine 10.Sara Jay 11.Holly Halston 12.Sophie Dee 13.Capri Cavanni 14.Britney Amber Started Last year 1.Rikki Six 2.Romi Rain 3.Raven Bay 4.Kendra Lust 5.Christy Mack 6.Dillion Harper 7.Casey Cumz 8.Allie James 9.Lolly Ink 10.Rilynn Rae [Link]

jim2 Member 232 Posts 7/06	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 9:19PM Fewer porn movies are being released now than 5-10 years ago. If they were making more money they would make MORE porn movies, not less. Also let's look at the Gangbang genre. Gangbangs are popular, they always have been. Most viewers like to see a decent size gangbang with 6+ guys. These days you see more like 3-4 guys in the gangbang, so it's like a mini-gangbang. Porn studios try to give the viewers what they want so why would they shoot small gangbangs? A small budget is the only reason I can think of. [Link]
BlasterDark Member 16 Posts 9/13	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 10:42PM jim2 wrote: Fewer porn movies are being released now than 5-10 years ago. If they were making more money they would make MORE porn movies, not less. Also let's look at the Gangbang genre. Gangbangs are popular, they always have been. Most viewers like to see a decent size gangbang with 6+ guys. These days you see more like 3-4 guys in the gangbang, so it's like a mini-gangbang. Porn studios try to give the viewers what they want so why would they shoot small gangbangs? A small budget is the only reason I can think of. Click to expand What do you mean by movies? Are you just talking about DVD releases or everything including online sites? [Link]
jim2 Member 232 Posts 7/06	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 11:04PM BlasterDark wrote: What do you mean by movies? Are you just talking about DVD releases or everything including online sites? Click to expand DVD releases. I still visit porn shops in my area and sometimes I see empty shelves. When the shelves are full it's all stuff from 5-10 years ago. I don't know what's available at the online sites but there's all kinds of evidence that shows the porn industry has taken a hit. Torrent sites and the recession the two main reasons. [Link]
BlasterDark Member 16 Posts 9/13	Posted - Sep 6 2013 : 11:47PM jim2 wrote: BlasterDark wrote: What do you mean by movies? Are you just talking about DVD releases or everything including online sites? Click to expand DVD releases. I still visit porn shops in my area and sometimes I see empty shelves. When the shelves are full it's all stuff from 5-10 years ago. I don't know what's available at the online sites but there's all kinds of evidence that shows the porn industry has taken a hit. Torrent sites and the recession the two main reasons. Click to expand Most people don't waste their money on DVDs. You can buy the same scenes cheaper from the official sites. What would you buy a $20 Brazzers DVD with 5 scenes or buy a $9.99(discount rate) one month Brazzers membership with 60 scenes? There are less DVDs because online porn is cheaper. Many online scenes have never been released on DVD. Edited by - BlasterDark on 9/7/2013 12:24:36 AM [Link]
flying_postman Member Europena Fanboy 162 Posts 5/07	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 12:20AM ^ Totally agree there has been a massive shift to web based content in the last 3 - 4 years and as cloud computing gets bigger/cheaper I believe that DVD releases will be a thing of the past in the next 5 years as most (or all) studios release content on sites exclusively thus eliminating costs associated with packaging DVDs, storage, transport etc.. [Link]
jim2 Member 232 Posts 7/06	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 12:48AM BlasterDark wrote: Most people don't waste their money on DVDs. You can buy the same scenes cheaper from the official sites. What would you buy a $20 Brazzers DVD with 5 scenes or buy a $9.99(discount rate) one month Brazzers membership with 60 scenes? There are less DVDs because online porn is cheaper. Many online scenes have never been released on DVD. Edited by - BlasterDark on 9/7/2013 12:24:36 AM Click to expand OK, that may explain the lack of DVD's, but what about my other observation on Gangbangs? It seems in recent years the gangbang scenes from U.S. studios have 3-4 guys. Years ago 6+ was the norm (The Gangbang Girl even had more). Others have complained about small gangbangs also. The standard answer always given was that the studios no longer have the money to spend to shoot big gangbangs. Edited by - jim2 on 9/7/2013 12:50:22 AM [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 3:33AM It is true some years ago a DVD/VHS costed more than it costs now , but there were lots of store where those movies could be rented foe a far lower price, besides back then most people g had Dial up connection , slow on expensive in many cases they couldn't download that much. Today most are with DSL/fiber connections ,a lot of stores went out of business there are sites selling scenes so that you don't need tons of DVD to find your favorite star , you just pick her alone at a much lower cost than before. Furthermore niche markets had grown a lot , the cost to produce a DVD has grown as well but this means less customers for each [Link]
Porno Dan Senior Member Over 150 XBIZ & AVN Nominations Including Studio of the Year 4378 Posts 3/09	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 3:01PM DVD revenue does NOT bring in enough to offset the cost of production. Most companies move around 500 units which wholesale for $10 = $5,000 For the sake of argument say the movie kills it and double this so you get $10,000 You average movie with 4 scenes 4 Female Talent w/ Agency Fee x 1,100 = $4,400 4 Male Talent x 400 = $1,600 Director 4 scenes x 250 = $1,000 Location 4 scenes x 300 = $1,200 Still Photographer 4 scenes x $200 = $800 PA 4 scenes x $100 = $400 The cost of a box cover = $300 Editing and chapter and authoring = $1,000 The cost of printing of the box cover and replication of 500 unites = $700 Total Cost = 12,400 Again these are average costs so like I stated even if a movie does very, very well and sells 1,000 units and I can assure that very few movies sell that many you still lose There are less than 50 scenes a day shot now down from over 200 because it is very, very hard a make profit in porn I am pretty qualified to talk about this as I release more DVDs than any single studio in the US. Edited by - porno dan on 9/7/2013 3:01:48 PM [Link]
PornDirector Member 14 Posts 9/13	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 3:58PM Porno Dan wrote: DVD revenue does NOT bring in enough to offset the cost of production. Most companies move around 500 units which wholesale for $10 = $5,000 For the sake of argument say the movie kills it and double this so you get $10,000 You average movie with 4 scenes 4 Female Talent w/ Agency Fee x 1,100 = $4,400 4 Male Talent x 400 = $1,600 Director 4 scenes x 250 = $1,000 Location 4 scenes x 300 = $1,200 Still Photographer 4 scenes x $200 = $800 PA 4 scenes x $100 = $400 The cost of a box cover = $300 Editing and chapter and authoring = $1,000 The cost of printing of the box cover and replication of 500 unites = $700 Total Cost = 12,400 Again these are average costs so like I stated even if a movie does very, very well and sells 1,000 units and I can assure that very few movies sell that many you still lose There are less than 50 scenes a day shot now down from over 200 because it is very, very hard a make profit in porn I am pretty qualified to talk about this as I release more DVDs than any single studio in the US. Edited by - porno dan on 9/7/2013 3:01:48 PM Click to expand WOW! Thank you so much for taking the time to post this Porno Dan! Very informative info that is so hard to find. My follow up question then is how do you survive and make money? I know you can't share all your secrets, but what advice would you give to the future generations of porno directors who come across your post and still want to give it a try? Edited by - porndirector on 9/7/2013 4:08:42 PM [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 4:37PM Thanks Pornodan. In another thread, he raised the idea of an iTunes-like service. This was also discussed in a thread titled Porn is a dying industry. There seems to be a lot of customer demand. What do you think is holding it up? [Link]

Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 6:30PM There's probably more people watching more porn than ever before and more people are probably making money off of porn than ever but that doesn't mean that money is being made by the porn studios/directors or the pornstars. Lots of people are now making money from porn by putting up sites that features old material and don't actually create new content. There are many new DVD companies that do the same. Plus the obvious fact that there's just so much free stuff out there that of many people's mindset is why pay for it when I can get it for free? Even when people get their porn by legit means it's still not always putting that much money back into the porn studios. I subscribe to VIDEOBOX which I think is a gret site/service but because of I have so much porn at my disposal I probably buy less new content. When I do buy DVDs most of it is older stuff from sellers on a website. That doesn't really fuel money to the studios making new content. There's more people making money from porn but for the porn studios to continue to exist the people producing new content need to make more. Those are the people who truly count. [Link]
MutantMo Senior Member Sleaze Servant 1180 Posts 9/13	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 6:57PM I used to love shopping for porn in brick and mortar shops. There were two stores that I frequented in my area (Orlando) and one was a legit dealer of DVDs. The other was a seedy shop with opened packages and would rent out DVDs then re-sell them as "new". The legitmate retailer unfortunately didn't have a large selection and shockingly the seedy shop had a larger catalogue. My point is we need more establishments out there or force "mainstream" companies to rent and sell porn. Its the same old story of porn being "taboo" regardless of mass consumption and those who deny watching it. Time to put porn on Red Box :) P.S. The seedy shop was loaded with shitty comp DVDs with misleading box art.. [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 8:44PM ^ Fairvilla and the place on OBT between Florida Mall and I-4? Which was the seedy place (not either of these two)? [Link]
MutantMo Senior Member Sleaze Servant 1180 Posts 9/13	Posted - Sep 7 2013 : 11:45PM Goldstein wrote: ^ Fairvilla and the place on OBT between Florida Mall and I-4? Which was the seedy place (not either of these two)? Click to expand Nope neither of those places were the seedy joint I was referring too :) [Link]
TairyHesticles Member 809 Posts 6/13	Posted - Sep 8 2013 : 9:12AM raul cristian said that his dvd sales dropped 95% when he started to shoot agressively in the u.s. but he said that the tubesites made him even more popular and he thinks the future are live sex shows some interesting interviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEiWntrTWuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-YoLZOIxnw [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Sep 8 2013 : 9:50AM MutantMo wrote: I used to love shopping for porn in brick and mortar shops. There were two stores that I frequented in my area (Orlando) and one was a legit dealer of DVDs. The other was a seedy shop with opened packages and would rent out DVDs then re-sell them as "new". The legitmate retailer unfortunately didn't have a large selection and shockingly the seedy shop had a larger catalogue. My point is we need more establishments out there or force "mainstream" companies to rent and sell porn. Its the same old story of porn being "taboo" regardless of mass consumption and those who deny watching it. Time to put porn on Red Box :) P.S. The seedy shop was loaded with shitty comp DVDs with misleading box art.. Click to expand I used to shop at 3 different porn shops at one point but I haven't gone to any of them in almost 2 years. During the last year of my going to those shops the DVD section got smaller and smaller every month. They were all trying to get rid of their old inventory by selling it at cheap prices (but still not as cheap as you could get it online). I'd have to imagine their DVD sections are almost non-existent by now judging by how fast they were shrinking back then. The problem was two-fold. More people were shopping online or watching free stuff the net. And because they made less money from DVDs they ordered less and the remaining customers were disappointed because the store would get in few new releases. I stopped shopping at the brick'n'morter stores because the selection of new titles just got so small. Then I got a ROKU and just started streaming porn to watch on my tv. I have a bigger selection of new stuff that I can stream for about the same price of renting or own it at a much cheaper price than buying it at the shops. All from the home without having to brave the scuzziness of some of the porn shops. Some pornshops are just creepy and look and feel so sleazy and dirty. Sad to see them struggle but happy I don't have to go to them anymore. [Link]
Kink Williams All-Star Member Yeah Jeets! 809 Posts 8/13	Posted - Sep 8 2013 : 9:58AM Great info from Porno Dan - obviously he would know as much as anyone: http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=PornoDan/gender=m/porno-dan.htm Still begs the question (already asked) of how these films will be made in the future with the obvious negative cash flow - even a top-selling film will not even cover personnel costs! Seems as though the name of the game is going to be: Websites - Traffic - Advertising. anyone who has visited any of the previously mentioned tube sites has certainly noticed the proliferation of banners, pop-ups, etc. Maybe this where the money is now. On a side note, I wonder if they still sell mags at the Seven-Eleven-type convenience stores. I could have sworn I have seen a shelf or so not too long ago - not that I am looking to procure any [:p)] - just curious. Old school porn is dead - RIP. [Link]
a9nostic Senior Member 1056 Posts 8/08	Posted - Sep 9 2013 : 12:57AM TairyHesticles wrote: raul cristian said that his dvd sales dropped 95% when he started to shoot agressively in the u.s. but he said that the tubesites made him even more popular and he thinks the future are live sex shows some interesting interviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEiWntrTWuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-YoLZOIxnw Click to expand What Raul Cristian said would be analogous to the music industry, wouldn't it? That the recording is driving convert ticket sales, and that's pretty much how it's going to be from now on, until people figure out how to digitally ( or otherwise ) reproduce the live experience, and then we'll have to find something else again? I'm interested to see how Raul thinks it'll shape up. I don't really see. [Link]
TairyHesticles Member 809 Posts 6/13	Posted - Sep 9 2013 : 1:45AM i think live sex shows are amazing (i enjoyed brazzers live very much some years ago when they took suggestions from the user chat), but the problem is the people can't always be online when they're broadcasting. watching the recording afterwards is not the same. in the video cristian says it's extraordinarily difficult to shoot everything the way he does for the cheapest price at the highest quality. at least raul is optimistic and sees the current situation as a challenge. i think he is one of the best gonzo directors ever, chooses always the best female & male talent and the focus is always on the girls. i wish him much success with the projects. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Sep 9 2013 : 8:40AM TairyHesticles wrote: i think live sex shows are amazing (i enjoyed brazzers live very much some years ago when they took suggestions from the user chat), but the problem is the people can't always be online when they're broadcasting. watching the recording afterwards is not the same. Click to expand I have no interest in "appointment porn". I get that some people may like it but I just don't like porn enough to start planning my day around watching a scene. I don't think one thing is going to help the porn situation. I feel bad for the people who make porn and performers but to be honest it's a great time to be a fan. DVDs are pretty cheap, there are so many options to get porn, there's so many types of porn available, and it so easy to get. And to be perfectly honest...if from this point on no new porn was produced there's enough stuff already out there that the porn industry as a whole would be able to survive. For the casual viewer they don't care about seeing the latest product as long as they can see something they like. [Link]

CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Sep 9 2013 : 8:58AM I think the OP may be correct that the industry may be "making more money than ever", but that the money is being made by the tube sites, the cam sites, millions of individual cam girls, and by the girls when they do feature dancing. A while back, I had an idea for the big producers that would represent a fundamental change in their business model. Why not become corporate pimps? A while back there was an HBO series about "The Bunny Ranch" a Nevada brothel. I'm guessing the brothel got a lot of business as a result of that show. Why not open up "The Vivid Ranch" or "The Playground"? Instead of selling DVDs, use the whole system of distribution and PR that the big studios have built to market prostitution. The girls might sign an agreement to work a certain number of weeks at a studio-affiliated brothel. If the girl wanted to tour places like Amsterdam (and wherever else prostitution is legal), the studio could again take a cut for offering PR and security services when she travels. The studio might require to sign a contract saying that she won't engage in any illegal prostitution, thereby making the contract enforceable, and assuring the studio its cut. I'm sure there are all sorts of legal challenges to overcome, but I imagine that many of them could be dealt with by setting up wholly owned subsidiaries, or exclusive contracts. So Vivid wouldn't need to run "The Vivid Ranch". It might also make sense to make films in Nevada, which would be one way to deal with LA's condom law. I'm sure there would be a slew of legal aspects that would need to be worked out. In particular, I don't know if Nevada has legalized prostitution or merely tolerates it. But I suspect that the state is in such huge economic trouble that if a studio were to approach a casino about going into business together, they could get things moving. I'm describing more of a vision for the future than a business plan, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see prostitution laws going the way of pot laws. The casinos and porn studios seem natural allies to push for legalized prostitution, and I suspect there is a lot of money to be made in pimping. [Link]
vanessadelriolover Member I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 11 2013 : 2:44AM I stopped visiting porn shops to rent DVDs in 2004. DVDs can be purchased cheaply on ADM or eBay and many big time online stores and sometimes produces sell on both marketplaces. If buying discounted DVDs or used DVDs takes away from studio profits? I've always wanted to know. Oh, and to the people that speak of downloads from torrents and tubes, those can serve as advertisements for certain DVDs, no? [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 11 2013 : 9:02AM vanessadelriolover wrote: I stopped visiting porn shops to rent DVDs in 2004. DVDs can be purchased cheaply on ADM or eBay and many big time online stores and sometimes produces sell on both marketplaces. If buying discounted DVDs or used DVDs takes away from studio profits? I've always wanted to know. Click to expand I'm guessing that all legit DVDs are originally bought from the companies/studios and the price they're sold at has to do with the individual sellers. The prices a seller sells them for probably has to do with their overhead and how at what price point they can sell it to make a profit. A brick and morter store will always have to sell at a higher price than some guy selling/mailing DVDs from his garage or storage unit. Oh, and to the people that speak of downloads from torrents and tubes, those can serve as advertisements for certain DVDs, no? Click to expand Some of the stuff on tube sites are actually clips provided by studios to advertise their site. The hope is that you'll like the clip enough to want to see more and go to their actual site. [Link]
vanessadelriolover Member I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 15 2013 : 6:22AM Draxxx wrote: Some of the stuff on tube sites are actually clips provided by studios to advertise their site. The hope is that you'll like the clip enough to want to see more and go to their actual site. Click to expand Draxxx thanks for the response. So when tubes do this they server a useful purpose and I will tell you about another one.....international stuff that is completely inaccessible via domestic online or brick-mortar stores. Take for example all of Laetitia Reinedes amateur things. She did superb amateur stuff in the 1990s, better than Ed Powers (whose early stuff up until 1998 I still like) and others. Used her find her VHS material at adult store in Inglewood, Ca on the way to LAX (Fox something or other). Today, I can't find her stuff anywhere and no major domestic studio has decided to release her classic stuff. However at least on [NO!] you can find lots of her stuff there. I would eagerly buy it if it were available on any site ADE, Gamelink, Xrent...any site, but no such luck all these years. [NO!] keeps her from being forgotten state-side. The third and last productive thing they do is showcase real amateur stuff under sites like BBW lovers or similar. Lots of swingers taping what they do....actually their passion makes up for production quality if you ask me. Kinda like Timlakes Homegrown but way more lo-fi! I know the torrent/tubes do shady and most often shitty rip offs from legitimate producers/directors/talent....but there are some useful purposes and frankly if I ever visit that is the reason why not to "steal" big studio stuff I can easily buy at a discount on ADM or eBay. MOD: You have been here long enough to know the tube site policy, do not mention names! Edited by - flash on 10/15/2013 10:09:19 AM [Link]
WideAngle Senior Member GAMBO192 1367 Posts 9/11	Posted - Oct 15 2013 : 7:28AM Many torrent/downloads sites have advertisings of the main porn producers. This means they know those sites, and they agree on what they do, and they also support them buying ads space. Obviously this makes them more notorious. Think also about many BangBros scenes leaking out on some of those websites: it is clear that they are provided by somebody working at Bangbros, maybe on managers' request. It's not something a regular member can do. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 15 2013 : 8:43AM vanessadelriolover wrote: However at least on xvideos.com you can find lots of her stuff there. I would eagerly buy it if it were available on any site ADE, Gamelink, Xrent...any site, but no such luck all these years. [NO!] keeps her from being forgotten state-side. I know the torrent/tubes do shady and most often shitty rip offs from legitimate producers/directors/talent....but there are some useful purposes and frankly if I ever visit that is the reason why not to "steal" big studio stuff I can easily buy at a discount on ADM or eBay. Click to expand I agree with you on that. I used go to [NO!] and they'd have vids from stars I couldn't find anywhere else. There's stuff they had I'd happily pay for if they were available on DVD or even legit download. I think I said this before here. I don't think all the free porn on tube sites is bad and destroying the porn biz (Torrents is probably a different story, I've never downloaded a torrent file). There's a lot of tube stuff that serves as ads (clips) or enticements for views to go to a paying site and some of the tube stuff allows fans to see scenes/performers they wouldn't be able to see otherwise because it's not offered anywhere else. Tube sites aren't bad in and of themselves, they become bad when people use them as a substitute for paying for porn. I watch stuff on tube sites and have actually bought stuff because I like what I saw and wanted to have a better version to own. I think it's bad when a new releases are up on tube sites or torrents and it's the whole scene or movie in high def before the release has had a chance to make it's money. On the other hand, an old movie or scene from the 90s or before on a tube site isn't as big a deal. MOD: You have been here long enough to know the tube site policy, do not mention names! Edited by - flash on 10/15/2013 10:09:56 AM [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Oct 15 2013 : 10:11AM MOD: Regardless of how you feel about tube sites, both of you have been here long enough to know the policy about naming them. DO NOT name them. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Oct 15 2013 : 10:15AM Gambo192 wrote: Many torrent/downloads sites have advertisings of the main porn producers. This means they know those sites, and they agree on what they do, and they also support them buying ads space. Obviously this makes them more notorious. Click to expand Do you have any proof they agree on what they do or just this conclusion you have drawn? Maybe it is a case where they are forced to try and turn around some of the people going to get their material that they didn't authorize to be there. There are various conclusions that can be drawn, so directly stating they agree without any back up doesn't amount to much. [Link]
GlennKing Member Evil Angel Director and Host of Evil Angel Radio - Every Fri night 7PM PST on SiriusXM 102! 62 Posts 10/12	Posted - Oct 15 2013 : 1:04PM Nice post, Dan.. Good to see someone addressing this publicly. When you see someone talking about how Porn is a Billion Dollar industry (I have seen numbers as high as 10 billion), there are a couple of problems: 1) The number is made up. Most porn companies are not publicly held and don't have to report their revenues. So anyone publishes an article quoting a figure like that has no real facts to back it up. It's pure speculation. 2) There are 5-6 companies who are doing big numbers, and the rest are struggling to break even (see Dan's post to understand why). It is still very possible to run a profitable adult company. You do it by running an efficient business - you start by keeping costs low. And since you can't rely upon DVD revenues as a sole source of income, you diversify revenues via membership sites, VOD, cable/broadcast, foreign rights, live webcasts, custom videos, clips, etc. I don't think of myself as a DVD Producer. I think of myself as a multimedia content Producer. --Glenn King Producer/Director, Evil Angel MeanWorld Edited by - glennking on 10/15/2013 1:05:16 PM [Link]
vanessadelriolover Member I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 5:44AM Flash wrote: MOD: Regardless of how you feel about tube sites, both of you have been here long enough to know the policy about naming them. DO NOT name them. Click to expand Flash sorry about that man, I got carried away. It won't happen again. [Link]

earthwindfire Deactivated User 257 Posts 10/12	Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 9:59PM PornDirector wrote: There are guys who create just one small paysite with a model/pornstar and they make millions off just one website. Let alone these porn companies with their pay site AND their DVD sales of well known pornstars with a huge following. 1,000 copies a month x $5 profit = $5,000 profit a DVD title x 12 months = $60,000 a year off of one porno title. That is more than most people make in a year with a 9 to 5 job. Do 10 DVDs and you are averaging $600,000 a year. Some of these porno companies have over 100 titles in their catalog! Click to expand "Small paysite" with one girl does NOT make millions; I would venture that big name pornstars might only have a few hundred subscribers AT MOST, and below the top tier, less than 100 per month. They are not getting rich on their own paysite. The individual paysites are more like a marketing portal for their companionship services (The real money for most porn girls). It is VERY RARE to see someone sell 12,000 copies of a DVD in a year, probably is zero probability now(you are making up numbers based on 1000 per month!). DVD is a dying industry and not even profitable anymore in all likelihood. You post a whole bunch of calculations as if they are factual; but they are just made up in your head. Fine to do that, but don't expect people to respect the post. Edited by - earthwindfire on 10/16/2013 10:00:27 PM Edited by - earthwindfire on 10/16/2013 10:02:03 PM [Link]
mapofhawaii Senior Member 1050 Posts 3/06	Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 10:42PM How much do companies get from deals with sites like Videobox.com? [Link]
Endless Loop Senior Member Tomatometer 1129 Posts 8/04	Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 11:05PM Porno Dan wrote: DVD revenue does NOT bring in enough to offset the cost of production. Most companies move around 500 units which wholesale for $10 = $5,000 For the sake of argument say the movie kills it and double this so you get $10,000 Click to expand I find it hard to fathom anyone would remain in business, to even finance the production of a dvd to sell at those numbers, much less to hang around absorbing such losses, long enough for those numbers to be considered the industry average. Considering these averages, even 50 scenes a day seems outlandish, or are these primarily website content? Edited by - Endless Loop on 10/16/2013 11:13:52 PM [Link]
Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04	Posted - Oct 17 2013 : 5:51AM mapofhawaii wrote: How much do companies get from deals with sites like Videobox.com? Click to expand Unless you have a premium channel, peanuts. Jacco [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Oct 27 2013 : 11:39AM Of related interest. Where is this all headed? Slaves of the Internet, Unite! Opinion By TIM KREIDER October 26, 2013 NOT long ago, I received, in a single week, three (3) invitations to write an original piece for publication or give a prepared speech in exchange for no ($0.00) money. As with stinkbugs, it’s not any one instance of this request but their sheer number and relentlessness that make them so tiresome. It also makes composing a polite response a heroic exercise in restraint. People who would consider it a bizarre breach of conduct to expect anyone to give them a haircut or a can of soda at no cost will ask you, with a straight face and a clear conscience, whether you wouldn’t be willing to write an essay or draw an illustration for them for nothing. They often start by telling you how much they admire your work, although not enough, evidently, to pay one cent for it. “Unfortunately we don’t have the budget to offer compensation to our contributors...” is how the pertinent line usually starts. But just as often, they simply omit any mention of payment. A familiar figure in one’s 20s is the club owner or event promoter who explains to your band that they won’t be paying you in money, man, because you’re getting paid in the far more valuable currency of exposure. This same figure reappears over the years, like the devil, in different guises — with shorter hair, a better suit — as the editor of a Web site or magazine, dismissing the issue of payment as an irrelevant quibble and impressing upon you how many hits they get per day, how many eyeballs, what great exposure it’ll offer. “Artist Dies of Exposure” goes the rueful joke. In fairness, most of the people who ask me to write things for free, with the exception of Arianna Huffington, aren’t the Man; they’re editors of struggling magazines or sites, or school administrators who are probably telling me the truth about their budgets. The economy is still largely in ruins, thanks to the people who “drive the economy” by doing imaginary things on Wall Street, and there just isn’t much money left to spare for people who do actual things anymore. This is partly a side effect of our information economy, in which “paying for things” is a quaint, discredited old 20th-century custom, like calling people after having sex with them. The first time I ever heard the word “content” used in its current context, I understood that all my artist friends and I — henceforth, “content providers” — were essentially extinct. This contemptuous coinage is predicated on the assumption that it’s the delivery system that matters, relegating what used to be called “art” — writing, music, film, photography, illustration — to the status of filler, stuff to stick between banner ads. Just as the atom bomb was the weapon that was supposed to render war obsolete, the Internet seems like capitalism’s ultimate feat of self-destructive genius, an economic doomsday device rendering it impossible for anyone to ever make a profit off anything again. It’s especially hopeless for those whose work is easily digitized and accessed free of charge. I now contribute to some of the most prestigious online publications in the English-speaking world, for which I am paid the same amount as, if not less than, I was paid by my local alternative weekly when I sold my first piece of writing for print in 1989. More recently, I had the essay equivalent of a hit single — endlessly linked to, forwarded and reposted. A friend of mine joked, wistfully, “If you had a dime for every time someone posted that ...” Calculating the theoretical sum of those dimes, it didn’t seem all that funny. I’ve been trying to understand the mentality that leads people who wouldn’t ask a stranger to give them a keychain or a Twizzler to ask me to write them a thousand words for nothing. I have to admit my empathetic imagination is failing me here. I suppose people who aren’t artists assume that being one must be fun since, after all, we do choose to do it despite the fact that no one pays us. They figure we must be flattered to have someone ask us to do our little thing we already do. I will freely admit that writing beats baling hay or going door-to-door for a living, but it’s still shockingly unenjoyable work. I spent 20 years and wrote thousands of pages learning the trivial craft of putting sentences together. My parents blew tens of thousands of 1980s dollars on tuition at a prestigious institution to train me for this job. They also put my sister the pulmonologist through medical school, and as far as I know nobody ever asks her to perform a quick lobectomy — doesn’t have to be anything fancy, maybe just in her spare time, whatever she can do would be great — because it’ll help get her name out there. Maybe they’re asking in the collaborative, D.I.Y. spirit that allegedly characterizes the artistic community. I have read Lewis Hyde’s “The Gift,” and participated in a gift economy for 20 years, swapping zines and minicomics with friends and colleagues, contributing to little literary magazines, doing illustrations for bands and events and causes, posting a decade’s worth of cartoons and essays on my Web site free of charge. Not getting paid for things in your 20s is glumly expected, even sort of cool; not getting paid in your 40s, when your back is starting to hurt and you are still sleeping on a futon, considerably less so. Let’s call the first 20 years of my career a gift. Now I am 46, and would like a bed. Practicalities aside, money is also how our culture defines value, and being told that what you do is of no ($0.00) value to the society you live in is, frankly, demoralizing. Even sort of insulting. And of course when you live in a culture that treats your work as frivolous you can’t help but internalize some of that devaluation and think of yourself as something less than a bona fide grown-up. I know I sound like some middle-aged sourpuss who’s forgotten why he ever wanted to do this in the first place. But I’m secretly not as mercenary as I’m trying to pretend. One of the three people who asked me to do something for nothing that dispiriting week was a graduate student in a social work program asking me if I’d speak to her class. I first sent her my boilerplate demurral, but soon found myself mulling over the topic she’d suggested, involuntarily thinking up things to say. I had gotten interested. Oh, dammit, I thought. I knew then I was going to do the talk. And after all, they were student social workers, who were never going to make much money either because they’d chosen to go into the business, which our society also deems worthless, of trying to help people. Also, she was very pretty. “Let us not kid ourselves,” Professor Vladimir Nabokov reminds us. “Let us remember that literature is of no practical value whatsoever. ... ” But practical value isn’t the only kind of value. Ours is a mixed economy, with the gift economy of the arts existing (if not exactly flourishing) within the inhospitable conditions of a market economy, like the fragile black market in human decency that keeps civilization going despite the pitiless dictates of self-interest. My field of expertise is complaining, not answers. I know there’s no point in demanding that businesspeople pay artists for their work, any more than there is in politely asking stink bugs or rhinoviruses to quit it already. It’s their job to be rapacious and shameless. But they can get away with paying nothing only for the same reason so many sleazy guys keep trying to pick up women by insulting them: because it keeps working on someone. There is a bottomless supply of ambitious young artists in all media who believe the line about exposure, or who are simply so thrilled at the prospect of publication that they’re happy to do it free of charge. I STILL remember how this felt: the first piece I ever got nationally published was in a scholarly journal that paid in contributors’ copies, but I’ve never had a happier moment in my career. And it’s not strictly true that you never benefit from exposure — being published in The New York Times helped get me an agent, who got me a book deal, which got me some dates. But let it be noted that The Times also pays in the form of money, albeit in very modest amounts. So I’m writing this not only in the hope that everyone will cross me off the list of writers to hit up for free content but, more important, to make a plea to my younger colleagues. As an older, more accomplished, equally unsuccessful artist, I beseech you, don’t give it away. As a matter of principle. Do it for your colleagues, your fellow artists, because if we all consistently say no they might, eventually, take the hint. It shouldn’t be professionally or socially acceptable — it isn’t right — for people to tell us, over and over, that our vocation is worthless. Here, for public use, is my very own template for a response to people who offer to let me write something for them for nothing: Thanks very much for your compliments on my [writing/illustration/whatever thing you do]. I’m flattered by your invitation to [do whatever it is they want you to do for nothing]. But [thing you do] is work, it takes time, it’s how I make my living, and in this economy I can’t afford to do it for free. I’m sorry to decline, but thanks again, sincerely, for your kind words about my work. Feel free to amend as necessary. This I’m willing to give away. ------------------------------------------------------------------- A familiar figure in one’s 20s is the club owner or event promoter who explains to your band that they won’t be paying you in money, man, because you’re getting paid in the far more valuable currency of exposure. Click to expand ^ The tubesite/file-sharing piracy sites of today. See, people stealing your music and movies, instead of buying them, are really helping you succeed [Link]