@ fu_q Apathy... @Zaer -- can you please share your background and expertise in this matter ? You speak as though you are well versed in HIV transmission and epidemiological studies ? I have defended HIV transmission cases in a hosptial setting and I can tell you that its almost impossible to contract HIV even from a needle stick from an HIV infected patient... Our retained expert in those cases determined that at best there is a 1 in 612 chance of getting HIV from such an exposure and at worst its less than a 1% chance. And a needle stick is blood to blood contact. If you dont believe me here is a quote from www.avert.com ...an international AIDs charity.If the industry cut back on anal and especially anal with exceptionally large male performers that could rip a female performer, we could make the possibility of transmission almost non-existent. Also if the testing period were changed from every 30 days to every 15 days that would also cut chances of transmission. There are less restrictive means available to make the industry safer than chilling speech by forcing condoms and dental dams on an industry that doesnt want them. Edited by - pornlaw on 6/1/2010 12:44:25 AM
[sigh] When you talk of things like sweatshops it conjures up imagery of people working in these horrible places where they have no choices and are just stuck there. Nobody is stuck working in porn in 2010. Even living on the streets these days is safer and better living than it would have been way back in the day. Nobody is stuck in any line of work now. There are inherent risks associated with doing porn right. I don't know about you but rubbers do not feature prominently in my sexual fantasies. And if I was going to make a drawing of two people having sex, I would not draw a condom on the man. The reason is obvious. The only people who would want to see a man wearing a condom would be people who have some kind of condom fetish or the same kind of people who would cover up a naked statue because it offends them. You obviously either don't understand this or (more likely) you just don't care about the implications of squelching speech in the name of "public safety" (Which is the biggest crock of shit I've heard in a long time).Right. But we're not talking about the rest of the world. We're talking about the US for the time being. In this country, there is no reason other than sheer laziness as to why anyone would be ignorant about these things. Even if you don't own a computer you can go to a public library and get accurate information on this. Most people do have some kind of access to the internet so if they are ignorant of how HIV is transmitted, they are willfully ignorant of it. And again, this is a choice. I'm sorry. I do feel bad for people who are struggling with this disease but this is a totally different scenario than when people had no idea what HIV was or how to prevent it (And had no way of knowing). Edited by - randomprecision on 6/1/2010 9:22:02 AM
Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07
Posted - Jun 1 2010 : 11:46AM
If the industry cut back on anal and especially anal with exceptionally large male performers that could rip a female performer, we could make the possibility of transmission almost non-existent. Edited by - pornlaw on 6/1/2010 12:44:25 AM
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Clap, clap.. I would expect nothing less from a guy who makes his money from an industry that contains some really scummy and unethical people. People who only care about lining there pockets... Not everyone, but I venture to say the majority. Tell this BS to Darren James and every other HIV+ performer... not to mention every performer who will live the rest of their lives fighting herpes outbreaks. Herpes and other std's are rampant. How about giving us the "to date" total of STD cases amongst performers Mr. Pornlaw? Boo hoo the porn industry doesn't want condoms and protections in place to help prevent transmission of an incurable disease and a host of other STD's. Will this put a crimp in the Bentley payments? BTW.... Did Darren James do anal with a large male? Hmmm.. not sure that's the way it happened. But please educate me since you seem to be an expert in this area... Did you get your medical training the same place Sharon Mitchell got hers? Just curious...
Ahhh... now you show your face. Thank you. No I got my training through hours of research, medical classes, cross examining experts and handling medically complicated lawsuits through-out my career. You do realize attorneys have to be trained in medical sciences in order to handle complex medical issues. I have represented hospitals and have defended several HIV transmission cases, as well as other communicable disease transmission cases. How Darren got HIV, only Darren knows. And I will not speculate about it here. You do realize he was shooting in Brazil and Canada prior to testing positive in the US. I am not here to defend the industry, I do agree that they way the industry polices itself and handles safety and performer health needs to improve. Just not at the cost of effecting the free speech rights of those making and starring in the content. Like I stated there are less restrictive means. Which you do not want to accept. Its condoms or nothing for you. Which begs the question, how involved are you with the AIDS Healthcare Foundation ? From what I understand, AHC could benefit financially from forcing the condom issue on the industry. What kind of car does Michael Weinstein drive ? Lastly, if the blood borne pathogen regulations are forced on the adult industry you can bet that someone will force the same regulations on major league sports, MMA, and boxing. And while the state may not want to, they will be forced to rewrite the law and exclude certain industries from it. This industry will be one of them. Sorry but money usually wins out in politics and Bentleys arent cheap.
For those of you that think porn is unsafe, check out the statistics regarding stuntmen. Porn is way, way, way safer!!! In the last comprehensive study by the University of Illinois (http://www.uic.edu/sph/glakes/harts1/HARTS_library/film1.txt) for the period of 1980 - 1989: Fatalities: The Center for Safety in the Arts has compiled a list of 40 fatalities from 1980-89 in motion picture and television production (from stunt work alone). This includes fatalities in American films and in films shot abroad by American companies or their subsidiaries. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Disabling, Nonfatal, Work-related Injuries and Illnesses. Motion Picture Industry. California, 1980-1988: Year Injuries 1980-1982 2,588 1983-1985 2,962 1986-1988 2,968 Total - 8,518 I suggest, in the interest of safety, that we keep the porn and that the United States Government no longer allow stuntmen to be allowed to perform stunts in movies! j/k
SHYLOCK "Patron of the Tarts" Spieglergirls.com "Vivid girls are the ones your mom warned you about, but Spieglergirls are the ones your cardiologist warns you about!" - jrv
This may be OT, but I remember Nica recently writing about how she sometimes dislikes the externals because they look too alien in an otherwise non-porny scene and therefore break the 4th wall. Haven't seen any Sweet Sinner movies lately, so I can't tell.
"You Wish" is actually far more interesting than this--at least apparently. As she noted in a thread in which she extolled the virtues of Shelly Lubben, she sells porn in her adult boutique(s). While she predominantly limits her stock to companies that she believes don't "hurt" the actresses, she noted some of the companies that she has no moral objections to selling. A better question to her might be to ask whether she sells / profits off of adult fare that involves unsafe sex--given the companies that she sells, I doubt that you would be surprised at the answer.
"I'm not a Doctor, but I play one on TV" 29 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 4:38AM
There are dozens of websites using mostly new Russian talent. They are now working together with upscale European sites like 21sextury and are producing higher quality releases. Whatever happens concerning the demise of US based porn will only increase the cash flow and traffic to these type productions. (my opinion) It is the same argument used on Wall Street... If you regulate "us" in the states then those elsewhere who are unregulated will beat the crap out of us. Most of the pirate sharing sites are also based outside of US legal jurisdiction.... My suggestion? Renew your passport or Take the Larry Flint bailout route.
Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 12:37PM
I know you said you weren't here defending the industry... I appreciate the candor and your opinions... You didn't answer my question... what are the "up to date" STD infection rates amongst performers, including Herpes? Please share this with us? You said you were well versed.. So please give us the current data... Furthermore... this isn't about "Free Speech Rights", so the porn companies need to cut the crap... IT IS about some middle aged predators making the Bentley payments off the backs of kids... yep you're right... they ain't cheap. That is the the truth that people need to know... BTW.. My face is a pretty one and a compassionate one. Ahhh and thank you very much for letting me know where you are coming from... money and politics... Did you ever comfort and hold a sobbing 20 year old girl in your arms, after witnessing her drug induced meltdown... banging her head against a wall while screaming that she is nothing but a useless whore and human being? I have Mr. Pornlaw... Not a pretty site. This girl obviously has more issues than just porn... There are some girls who handle themselves fairly well in this biz... I have met these rare individuals... But there are many others who are just fodder for scummy porn companies. Cmon Mr. Pornlaw you damned well know that most porn companies are lining there pockets without any regard for these young uneducated and naive kids... Yes Kids.. that's what most of them are. What did the industry do for any of the HIV+ performers after the infections were known? Did they help them with medical or financial arrangements? Did they have any health insurance through the porn biz? What does a young kid do after they are slammed in the head with the fact that have an incurable disease? Just ask Darren James and the others that question... What shape were they left in? They were tossed aside like yesterdays trash by this industry... That is the very sad reality...
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 1:08PM
OMG, are you kidding? So people shouldn't take responsibility for their own actions? People are not smart, so we need the government to tell us what to do? Please speak for yourself. If you aren't smart enough to know how to live, you will learn through your mistakes. I don't need the government to tell me to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle, or wear a seatbelt, or don't talk on the phone while driving, that to me is common sense, if you aren't "smart" enough to know simple basic rules of how to survive, you will learn, sometimes the hard way. I surely don't need the government telling me to wear a condom. This is America, If I want to smoke a cigarette and die of cancer, I am allowed too, If I want to drink myself into AA, that is my choice. I choose what is right for me. I have a choice, I will exercise that option.
@You Wish: Do you sell and/or profit off of porn that doesn't involve condom use? From the Shelly Lubben thread, you noted that you sell various companies' material that you find morally-acceptable. Amongst those companies that you listed, most of them typically do not shoot scenes in which condoms are employed. Are you not, then, personally profiting off of the very practices that you are so vehemently condemning? Are you not, then, also a big part of the "problem" that you are fighting against? You make for quite the "intriguing" crusader, indeed. (PS -- what is the obsession with Bentleys... is there some pact amongst porn producers that they must purchase this type of car?)
[edited b/c Woody posted in between my post and the one to which I was responding]
Thank you.I wouldnt know that. That one should be directed to the county health department.Every Employer-Employee relationship is usually a middle aged person making their money off the backs of some young kid. We perfected the pyramid scheme in the law business.Attorneys arent statesmen. We are here to protect private interests.Well if you had done a little research on me... you would know the answer to that question. My former fiance was a 20 year pornstar that committed suicide ... Tiffani Digivanni. So I think I have some experience there as well.I never argued this industry couldnt be better. Every industry can. I have represented mainstream Hollywood studios, US Dept of Defense Contractors, hospitals, agricultural companies with migrant farmer workers, the City of Los Angeles Fire and Police Departments and even a major league baseball team. I have represented basically every type of employer in Southern California. Every industry has it problems. Every industry takes advantage of its workers. It is the basic labor movement that has been around for hundreds of years. This industry is not the worst. Not by a long shot. I am the one that brokered the deal so that the FSC could offer workers compensation and health benefits to the companies in the industry. My uncle and grandfather were union organizers for the AFL-CIO. I grew up in union halls and on picket lines. Please do not approach me with the idea that I do not know both sides of the fence in this matter. I represent talent as well. I am one of the few attorneys that do. Again I ask - for the third time -- what is your interest in this matter ? Why do you keep avoiding the question ?
Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 2:00PM
My only interest is from a Mothers perspective and as moral human who believes in Karma and "Natural Law". Not to be confused with a religious perspective. I am not religious and I do believe in free speech... not exploitation of our children... I am not against erotica.. most porn nowadays doesn't even remotely resemble erotica. It's a bunch of overgrown juvenile delinquents running around with video cameras exploiting and abusing young women. I have said it before... I have no horse in this race. I do not have any affiliation with AHF or Shelley Lubben or any one else. I think the porn industry in its present form is like the ring around the inside of a toilet... I have met only a couple girls who said that they where genuinely and honestly happy being a porn girl. That will change as they mature and grow up in my opinion and experience... I haven't met too many girls that were genuinely PROUD with their decision to be a porn actress... Mr. Pornlaw I am sincerely sorry for your loss... I never heard the story. You know exactly where I was coming from than... I never looked into your background. I just see some your informative posts and read them. FU Q : Plug in a Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar.. what ever you like... is that better? But I thought I read some where that the new breed of porn scum drive Bentleys... My bad. Hollywood : I guess that answers your question...
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 2:11PM
They were not my questions, they were Pornlaws questions. Reading others posts it looks like you sell adult content as well. So it seems somewhat hypocritical of you to post some of the things you are saying. Over the years i have known hundreds of performers, Most that i have known, were happy in the choice to do porn. How many have you known? There are bad apples in every bunch, I tend not to believe that much in generalizations.
MOD: Judging from the above post portions, you aren't a fan of adult movies, yet you come in contact with enough actresses to form these opinions, which indicates that you are somehow connected to the industry so I'm going to take the time to remind you of this portion of the forum etiquette.This doesn't mean you have to disclose your name, just your connection to the industry. If you insist that you aren't somehow connected to the industry then I, like other members here, are probably going to question how you reach a large enough sampling size of adult actresses to make the statements that you are making.
Just bumping a question... I posed two different arguments in other threads (maybe this one) that You Wish completely ignored. I wasn't even saying "you're completely wrong" -- I was trying to instigate a dialogue. After the second response was ignored, I realised she is not interested in dialogue, which I find to be sincerely depressing. A lot of these issues are incredibly important, and I think a lot of us could identify with some of the points being made by You Wish. The rhetoric, however, as well as the refusal to engage in a level manner makes identification near impossible. I would like to know the answer to fu_q's question though. Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 6/2/2010 3:09:39 PM
Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 4:13PM
Sorry wasn't intentionally ignoring you. Yes we do sell movies that are sans condoms. Not my first choice, or my final decision to make the call... My PERSONAL choice would be to sell only condom movies... So am I a hypocrite? I can't change the world.. but I can voice my opinion and hope for changes that I think would be best... Yes these issues are incredibly important to a lot of people... My rhetoric is based on my personal experiences.. I call them the way i see them... Always have... always will... Look... I have a 20 something daughter who is well versed on the porn business also.. I would be honestly horrified if she would choose to be a gonzo porn actress and do some the very risky things contained in a lot of those movies... ass to mouth, facial and bukakes, getting and eating anal cream pies, having their rectums torn up by rough anal sex, with internal ejaculations... I gotta be real here... I don't have to worry about that. She has chosen to go the education route and has a Masters degree in social work... Her and I have always been open and up front about the adult business. I'll say it again.. I am against certain types of porn and abuse against young women. How much more level can I get? Where did healthy sexuality and erotica go? At least make movies that are sexy and the people act like they care about each other... and how about making them safely. Is that to much to ask?
^I get where you're coming from on some of these items, but--in all honesty--making money off of the very material that you are so heavily against...well... It gives the impression that your moral crusade ends where your pocketbook begins.
Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 5:20PM
Hollywood : I have no agenda other than my opinions and experiences. I never said I have met "hundreds" of girls. Those are your words, not mine. I have talked with a lot on very personal and revealing levels... lets keep it there. But I will say this... You would be very surprised to know what I know and whom. Heck I even know some of your story Hollywood, and yes we have met and spoken. Hmm maybe we even had lunch one time when I was with a friend over at Irv's deli? You are a funny and charming guy.. I will say that. I personally have been friends with former and current employees over at AVN and other publications and blogs. Yes, I know a few directors and company owners who are great people. I have been on some porn sets out of curiosity... I don't think I am being misguided or unfair. It is an incestuous business there are no secrets... If it quacks like a duck it must be a duck... Vivid is a top notch company with a great reputation... this is for sure. There are other companies like them. But out of the hundreds of porn and internet companies they are an exception... Porn has turned mean spirited and abusive... I stand by my observations... The movies don't lie... Edited by - You Wish on 6/2/2010 5:21:46 PM
So, if you are in the business for so long, why so mysterious? Howard doesn't hide his identity or connections, neither does Pornlaw, neither do I. This kind of anonymous posting implies one of two possibilities to me: either you are in the industry for real and you have some personal agenda or gripe or you are not in the industry at all (or maybe only slightly, as in working for a retailer) and are 'embellishing', to say it politely. Jacco Edited by - jacco on 6/2/2010 6:12:25 PM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 7:03PM
Thank you for your kind words, but i never ate at Irvs Deli, Brents deli yes, but where is Irvs? I always need a new deli. I just wonder why the generalizations? Every business has there bad seeds, porn is no different. I think the girls that get into it should do a little bit of research first, know who you are dealing with. It isn't as secretive as it was 20 years ago. I would first get a reputable agent, say what you will and won't do. If you are uncomfortable in a situation, leave. Never feel like you HAVE to do something you don't want to. There is no casting couch. If someone tells you you need to do something extra to get into a movie, leave. If you prefer condoms, say that. If you are good looking and do a good job, you will sell. The other porn companies, the small, cheap houses will crumble and fall. Any smuck with a camera today is a producer. You end your post with Porn has turned mean spirited and abusive, another generalization, not for us and plenty of others. You even said it yourself, not all are bad. Wicked, Digital, New Sensations and plenty of others know how to conduct business. I happen to agree with you about the bottom feeders. I personally found and helped a lot of girls, Tori Welles, Devon, I was the first to talk to Savanna Sampson. They deserve, as does every girl, to feel safe and welcome. I think that if there was no market for the "rough stuff", it would not be made, but someone is buying it, and a lot of it. I will tell you I don't like JMs stuff, or Paul Littles stuff, but they have every right to make it. The U.S. has every right to prosecute against it. If they lose, they will end up in jail like Max did. I am not here to judge, I feel like some producers give the whole industry a bad name, but I am sure they feel that way about Vivid. it really isn't as grim as you might think. I hope i picked up the check.
Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 7:29PM
So, if you are in the business for so long, why so mysterious? Howard doesn't hide his identity or connections, neither does Pornlaw, neither do I. This kind of anonymous posting implies one of two possibilities to me: either you are in the industry for real and you have some personal agenda or gripe or you are not in the industry at all (or maybe only slightly, as in workign for a retailer) and are 'embellishing', to say it politely. Jacco [/quote] No mysteries here. I prefer to stay private in this day and age of internet wackos .. Why are my observations and experiences so threatening? You have your opinions and I have mine. Lets discuss them... Yes I do have a gripe... isn't that clear? Geez... Embelishing? Honey... I'm practicing restraint... Maybe I am concentrating on what Woody calls the bottom feeders... I certainly could tell you honestly some unsavory stories... Hollywood: it was Brents in the shopping center... sorry brain freeze.. been a while... and no, my friend picked up the check lol... His treat... You do make some good points that I can't argue with... But as i said it's the rule not the exception... AVN glorifies bad porn and punk kids who are as far away from being professionals as it gets... Not a good combination in my judgment... Anyway the industry needs to clean up its act and take care of the performers much better. A union would be the best way to go IMHO... protect these kids that are making the porn companies rich... That is my gripe... Don't use them unsafely and than just throw them to the curb... I don't know how anyone in their right mind could disagree with this... Edited by - You Wish on 6/2/2010 7:38:24 PM
I never asked for your name, but as Flash mentioned above, if you are connected to the industry, you have to honest about your connections. You were not (your profile still only says 'fan') and you choose to remain anonymous. That's your decision, but I do not give a rat's ass about the opinions of dishonest, anonymous people on the internet. I don't feel threatened at all by the way as that would mean I would care about what you say and I don't. Jacco
Now here is something we can agree about. Most people who produce porn have lost touch with the consumers and have yet to pay the price for certain actions and their treatment of performers. That will change though. However, it shouldnt come at the hands of governmental regulation. It should come from within the industry. If you are truly a part of the industry and it sounds like you are, then you should realize that the government will try to regulate us out of existence not correct the problems that you see.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Jun 2 2010 : 8:35PM
No mysteries here. I prefer to stay private in this day and age of internet wackos .. Why are my observations and experiences so threatening? You have your opinions and I have mine. Lets discuss them... Yes I do have a gripe... isn't that clear? Geez... Embelishing? Honey... I'm practicing restraint... Maybe I am concentrating on what Woody calls the bottom feeders... I certainly could tell you honestly some unsavory stories... Hollywood: it was Brents in the shopping center... sorry brain freeze.. been a while... and no, my friend picked up the check lol... His treat... You do make some good points that I can't argue with... But as i said it's the rule not the exception... AVN glorifies bad porn and punk kids who are as far away from being professionals as it gets... Not a good combination in my judgment... Anyway the industry needs to clean up its act and take care of the performers much better. A union would be the best way to go IMHO... protect these kids that are making the porn companies rich... That is my gripe... Don't use them unsafely and than just throw them to the curb... I don't know how anyone in their right mind could disagree with this... Edited by - You Wish on 6/2/2010 7:38:24 PM
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I have always been raised to take responsibility for my own actions. I, nor anyone can police stupidity. Stupidity is not illegal, nor does stupidity warrant an overseer. This is how people become smart, from doing stupid things. Some people do not learn from their mistakes and are caught in everlasting ignorance for their lives. It is not my job, nor yours, to guide them to the light.You live, you learn. I can recant horror stories too, but these people put themselves in their own situation. I have a 20 year old daughter, she wanted to get in to the business, I helped her. But she is not stupid, she got into international sales, she is doing great. I support her. She never aspired to be a porn star. If she did, I would highly discourage her, but it is her life, not mine. Would i be happy about it, doubt it. But I raised her to make the right decisions. She doesn't drink, smoke or do drugs. Totally unlike me when i was 20. I was involved in the war on drugs, I just worked for the other side. Kids are much smarter today. A union would never happen. People, performers, need to take care of themselves. Porn companies are in business to make money, I started with Vivid when my office was in a garage. Steven has worked very hard to build his business. He has made a lot of porn stars rich too, they just don't know how to handle their money, so do, some don't.
It's not like anybody has to do porn, it's not a job that's a necessity. Pornstars could get a reg job just like the majority of people, and if you're arguing that you want the abuse in porn to stop well you can still have abusive sex with a condom. Bottom line, aids is terrible and I feel for anyone that has it, but if you want to lower your risk of catching STDs then it's probably not the best idea to have sex for a living. Cause I meen u can still get aids with a condom, then what's the argument no penetration in porn?
