Porn is not as hard core as it was a decade ago?

Author	Post
Chenzen94 New Member 2 Posts 8/18	Posted - Aug 3 2018 : 7:01PM So I started watching porn once I got old enough to around 2003 and regularly watched until around 2014. I still watch on occasion which usually involves checking naughty America and Brazzers two or three times a month. I noticed over time when I first started in 2003 that many of the vids I was watching was very Gonzo and extreme. It was very off putting and I watched out of morbid curiosity. However in 2006 I discovered Naughty America and Brazzers and their videos actually excited me. The vids were more sensual and the women seemed alot older at the time and this excited me. Actually I would describe 2006-10 naughty America and Brazzers very vanilla. I noticed naughty America and Brazzers started getting more of A variety as 2010 arrived and many other porn companies now have a variety of the vids they do. I do not see the extreme videos that repulsed me in the early 2000,s any more. Also I noticed the male talent in the early 2000,s were usually pretty ugly and alot older. Did anyone else notice this trend or was my age making me think at the time that this era was more hardcore and Gonzo? [Link]
chessmaster Member 768 Posts 6/12	Posted - Aug 3 2018 : 7:23PM Like you i prefer brazzers and naughty, more vanilla porn. And yes it was more gonzo and extreme porn early 2000s from what i have seen. But the "extreme" is making a comeback. Maybe not in america but definitely abroad. Idk. I dont follow the gonzo studios except for ir scenes. But here on this very forum the first couple pages are always cluttered with variations of anal/dp/gb/dap/tap threads. But yeah for vanilla porn and brazzers and NA i think 07 or 08-15 was the best years. [Link]
mrhector Senior Member 5084 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 3 2018 : 9:22PM When DVD sales dropped and tube sites started, around 2006, porn started to suck. Also the world has become much more PC. Lower tolerance for mysogony. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 4 2018 : 11:16AM I think it's wishful thinking to connect the change in style to a lower tolerance for misogyny (although mrhector seems upset at the relative loss of woman hating. Don't worry mr, misogyny is thriving in all sectors). I think the shift is due to a variety of influences. The more extreme shoots cost more money and the industry has less of that. The audience for porn has rapidly shifted, meaning producers can diversify content more. They also have to consider how to appeal to a more varied set of prospective viewers. The producers have changed somewhat, so they are producing different kinds of content on different kinds of platforms. Also, people get bored and/or worn out and/or grossed out. Trends shift. It's normal. Then you have all the obscenity cases which I'm sure tamed the more dedicated extreme producers. In my opinion, those crazy early Internet days were like when kids find a new toy--they go crazy for a bit a then settle down. The internet offered up a playspace of fantastical proportions and producers had the money to do some whacky stuff. Then things changed and people settled down. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Aug 4 2018 : 3:56PM I tend to think porn is probably more "hardcore" now that it's ever been. But these days it's all about niches. I think sites like BRAZZERS and NAUGHTY AMERICA have their audience and plays it safe by not straying too far away from their formula. Their sites are more about short scenarios (set-ups) for mostly big breasted glam type pornstars to have more tame sexual encounters (with BRAZZERS being a bit "harder"). EVIL ANGEL is a harder studio with an emphasis on anal. BLACKED is all about interracial with scenes that lean more toward the "erotic" and stylish side. LEGAL PORN and KINK are both pretty hardcore. Anything more harder than those two in my opinion stop being about sex and is probably just exist to show women being abused. But those types of sites exist. So...there's hardcore stuff out there but it's probably on a specialized site instead of a bunch of studios occasionally doing it. I constantly see people here complaining about sites that don't do or do enough of whatever kink/fetish or thing they're into. Those sites won't and probably shouldn't worry about trying to please everyone because it's a losing battle. They should always do what their core audience responds best to. If the site you're subscribed to isn't doing what you want the chances are there other sites doing what you want to see. Move on. [Link]

pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 4 2018 : 5:35PM ^I tend to agree with you that in many ways porn is more hardcore now than a decade ago but in return there are significantly less studios shooting porn in general that it might be why the OP and others think the porn is less hardcore. I mean sites like Facial Abuse, Legal Porno, Hookup Hotshot and all Kink sites are examples of sites that shoot a type of porn that is in many ways extremely hardcore. There are more artsy(some might say vanilla) type of porn sites now and that might skew the perspective of some people. All I know is that after seeing so many studios die. We are seeing a resurgence of new sites slowly carving a place for themselves and that is good news. [Link]
LPee23 All-Star Member Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15	Posted - Aug 5 2018 : 12:16PM ^ I agree with you too. Recently more niche sites have been testing the waters with more extreme content, and they seem to be getting away with it. I get the impression that there is more extreme porn out there than a decade ago, you just don't come across it unless you look for it because there is such a massive sea of porn in general today. In all fairness, the trend mentioned by Chenzen94 does apply to Brazzers and Naughty America, just as he says. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 5 2018 : 2:25PM I guess now is the time to ask what we mean when we say hardcore and what we mean when we say extreme. [Link]
DP_to_mouth Senior Member #1 Chloe Amour fan / More blowbangs! / #DPTM = Suck the cocks clean after a DP 1013 Posts 7/18	Posted - Aug 5 2018 : 3:24PM Sorry for the long post: On the margins I'd say no, its way more hardcore than ever. But theres a much wider variety and more niches to appeal to. if you want hardcore/extreme/weird stuff, its out there. Softercore storylines with higher production values are too. But to appeal to more people and make back those budgets they end up pumping the breaks on the hardcore action. We're more open minded about watching porn these days, but plenty of people don't like watching the ultra hard stuff. The big companies are ceding ground to the more hardcore/niche sites that have smaller overhead, who they know cannot have the same reach as their "friendlier" offerings. Also it kind of feels to me that women in porn are becoming more savvy and aware of their position. Being 20 years old today is a lot different than being 20 years old in the 90s. Previously it really felt like some of these women were kinda desperate and hollow inside. The job really was getting railed for cash. There weren't conversations about consent like we have today. I think directors/agents/male performers got off on pushing girls to the edge and some beyond. The actresses knew if they didnt do a "good scene" they wouldnt continue to get jobs. Thats an incredibly motivating factor to keep taking hardcore work, keep your mouth shut and normalizing what some consider to be abuse. They understood that and accepted it (or sadly, were too desperate to quit). 10/20 years ago I feel like the women took direction really well (basically did whatever they were told). Now I'm not so sure directors have the stomach to bully performers to get the hardcore performance they want. I suspect they are pushing performers less and being more upfront about what they want. I'd bet the late 90s early 00s are full of sex acts on set (especially firsts) that hadn't been discussed before shooting began. People forget how small of a voice the average person had back then. If something happened on set, there wasn't social media to publish your experience. The consequences of pushing a performers envelope weren't anywhere near as certain or quick or even existant sometimes. One of Jenna Haze early scenes she literally says no to a DP (maybe her first?) and they convince her, she says Ok, then says no too big, then says Ok after more convincing. Several "ows" later, she says herself that she is "such a fucking slut" and finishes the scene and appears to enjoy it and cums a bunch. It was hot and I loved the scene. I used to fool myself and just say this was the fantasy they "wrote," but now I think that was naive. Lets not forget that both inflation and housing costs have eaten away at what we have to live on, and the porn industry isnt immune to this. Even compared to a decade ago, $$$ for 1 scene doesnt buy what it used to. Thus, the internet birthing of secondary markets; camming in general, onlyfans, manyvids, premium snapchat, connecting with (ahem) "clients". Its funny because I think dedicated fans are keeping these girls afloat thanks to the internet, but on the other side of things, the internet (piracy) is hurting them in mainstream films. If you have a direct line to your fan (intimacy) you don't need to do the more hardcore stuff just to pay the bills. Just like how tipping keeps restaurant staff afloat, even as inflation robs them of their (below) minimum wages. I'd say more hardcore stuff today is coming more from people who actually enjoy/want to do it, or at the least have a high tolerance for it. Not that there aren't abuses going on today, but overall the trend is there. There are stars out there willing/wanting to do hard stuff, they just need to be paid well, treated fairly, and have informed consent. Girls dropping out of the industry because of abuse isn't good for any of us. I'd say its time for a pornstar bill of rights / union kind of a thing, with best practices for consent and such. I'd love to see more women owned/operated hardcore companies, we'd end up with more variety which in my opinion is the best thing for everyone. Maybe I'm wrong about some/all this, just my own opinion as a porn fan from the outside. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Aug 5 2018 : 3:25PM Gore Gore Girl wrote: I guess now is the time to ask what we mean when we say hardcore and what we mean when we say extreme. Click to expand That's a good question. Of course everyone's answer will be different but in my mind "hardcore" is wilder sex that may or may not include anal, DP, gangbangs, and over the top sex most normal couples wouldn't normally do. It can also include sex that looks like it could be painful for the woman. I consider most of EVIL ANGEL's output as "hardcore". "Extreme" to me is all previously mentioned turned up to 10 with the goal being just how much can the woman take or what can be done to her. I think most extreme porn sex has an element of male anger to it. [Link]
LPee23 All-Star Member Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15	Posted - Aug 5 2018 : 4:54PM ^^^ Draxxx summed it up pretty well for hardcore. What I mean by extreme is content that pushes the limits of what is allowable in the industry. It could be rough sex with an element of male anger, in which case I am not really a fan of it. It could also be really hard BDSM scenes. Male anger doesn't come into play if you've got a really rough femdom scene with a male sub. What I've definitely noticed is more sites being more open with golden showers and pee drinking. I got the impression many sites were shying away from that after the mid-2000s obscenity trials, but some sites feature it pretty prominently nowadays. They don't seem to have run into trouble with payment processors either. Edited by - LPee23 on 8/5/2018 5:13:29 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 5 2018 : 6:19PM I have a rating system that's broken into four levels. Softcore, midcore, hardcore, and extreme. That last one can in some rare instances be upgraded to ultra extreme but these are quite rare and usually involve very fringe things. -Softcore is any porn that involves one or two people touching/kissing but no visible penetration or oral sex. -Midcore is basically the same as softcore but you normally have some minor penetration(no toys or dicks) and if there is any oral sex then it can't be visible(ie: shot in such a way that the oral sex is ambiguous). -Hardcore is any type of porn where you see actual penetration(this includes vaginal, anal and double penetration) using either fingers(no fist), toys, strap-ons or dicks. -Extreme is any porn where there is fisting, DAP, DVP or TAP. [Link]
Chenzen94 New Member 2 Posts 8/18	Posted - Aug 5 2018 : 8:20PM Wow thank you to everyone for their insightful responses! To be more clear, when I was younger in the early 2000,s the stuff I am talking about is Rob black produced content and gangbangs featuring male talent such a Brian surwood. This stuff just made me feel totally uncomfortable and still does tbh. I am not sensitive and am in no way someone who gets offended. For some reason the mid 2000,s Naughty America and Brazzers content brought me so much joy it shaped my idea of what I enjoyed and what I did not. To this day I will usually only watch more vanilla stuff. In real life I love affection during intimacy and I honestly could not see trying to emulate stuff I saw in the Rob Black videos 🤣 I am all for free speech and beileve the extreme stuff has a right to exsist, it's just not for me so I avoid it Edited by - Chenzen94 on 8/5/2018 8:22:01 PM Edited by - Chenzen94 on 8/5/2018 8:22:32 PM Edited by - Chenzen94 on 8/5/2018 8:22:56 PM [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Aug 6 2018 : 1:05AM Chenzen94 wrote: Wow thank you to everyone for their insightful responses! To be more clear, when I was younger in the early 2000,s the stuff I am talking about is Rob black produced content and gangbangs featuring male talent such a Brian surwood. This stuff just made me feel totally uncomfortable and still does tbh. Click to expand I think you're talking about the EXTREME STUDIOS stuff that existed back then. I tend to think of that stuff as "shock porn" because they seemed to be more concerned with being shocking with their sex and themes more than anything else. Yeah, the sex was hardcore but it was the themes/set-ups/senarios that they purposely aimed for poor taste, offensive and shocking to make themselves stand out. I found a lot of that stuff to be just weird more than anything. I am not sensitive and am in no way someone who gets offended. For some reason the mid 2000,s Naughty America and Brazzers content brought me so much joy it shaped my idea of what I enjoyed and what I did not. To this day I will usually only watch more vanilla stuff. In real life I love affection during intimacy and I honestly could not see trying to emulate stuff I saw in the Rob Black videos 🤣 I am all for free speech and beileve the extreme stuff has a right to exsist, it's just not for me so I avoid it Click to expand Studios like NAUGHTY AMERICA, BRAZZERS, NEW SENSATIONS, and the like tend to be more about people having and enjoying sex with each other with a set-up (story) involved. It's well shot and has attractive people in their scenes. I tend to like that kind of porn better I prefer some sort of story/reason for the sex to happen instead of a women just starting with a woman in lingerie or no clothes on posing then a man just appears out of nowhere and they start having sex. I watch that type of porn but I will always prefer some of story and it's nice to see women dressed in normal clothes from time to time. But I will watch almost anything as long as it stars a girl I like watching and she's clearing enjoying whatever type of sex is going on and doesn't appear to be in any pain or distress. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 6 2018 : 12:44PM ^ I think you mean Extreme Associates. That is the kind of porn I consider extreme. And that's the issue here--some people say "extreme" and mean physical extremity (round these parts, that would mean the woman's physicality of course) and others mean thematically, and then there is the misuse of "hardcore" to mean a whole spectrum of things (it was used on ADT recently to mean overtly racial language), arguably different from "hardcore." There are also lots of "extreme" acts that are extreme because they push the boundaries of the industry, and that would mean pushing legality and blurring sexual/gender orientations. Would a blowbang featuring trans women, trans dudes, and cis folks be the ultimate "extreme" scene? For some people, yes. So, by that measure the most "extreme" porn is currently being produced by little indie companies in San Francisco. For others, the most extreme porn was produced by Jamie Gillis in his bathroom and as far as I know involved little to no sex. It's a conversation that, while kind of fun to ponder, ultimately goes around in circles with everyone talking at cross purposes. [Link]

Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Aug 7 2018 : 12:02PM The only emerging spectrum I see (that could be universal) is how clinical a scene is, where the objective is to visually depict the pushing of physical limits. DPs usually qualify as more on the clinical side, but not always. Fisting, more in the clinical side. Giant insertions, clinical all the way. The sociological or emotional or political stuff is more subjective and could fit anywhere within the clinical spectrum. A "rough" scene might be clinical or not. The old word used to be "explicit", as in Playboy versus Penthouse, inner labia versus not. Which was always silly to begin with. And "spread eagle" photos used to be labeled "hardcore"; now I see them referred to as "softcore". Now sometimes "hardcore" refers to more than one person in the shot or scene, and solo penetration is "softcore". So all those old terms seem really diluted to me at this point. [Link]
Zingerbrook Member 580 Posts 3/17	Posted - Aug 7 2018 : 12:16PM To the OP, also realize that online porn was still getting started in 2003. It was not the massive distribution channel that it is now. Most people still got their porn from DVD rental places, and the vast amount of stuff at rental places, that people watched, was not the extreme stuff you're talking about. You have a choice of ONE dvd to rent for the evening. Except maybe people with certain interests or people new to porn, maybe they'd look for the more extreme stuff and actually take the time and money to rent the DVD. And online. smaller distribution channel it was--and cheaper--was a good place for the more extreme stuff. However you want to define extreme. Even though the definition of "extreme" or "hardcore" is shifting....let's call is "socially acceptable" versus "less socially acceptable"...I don't think there is any less or any more necessarily. The ratio hasn't shifted much over time. If that makes sense. I'm writing super casually. [Link]
lsnoop Member 301 Posts 5/09	Posted - Aug 7 2018 : 3:35PM Chenzen94 wrote: Did anyone else notice this trend or was my age making me think at the time that this era was more hardcore and Gonzo? Click to expand Of course. Back in the day each producer had his identity and unique style. Edited by - lsnoop on 8/7/2018 3:40:39 PM [Link]
jackdore Member 512 Posts 6/16	Posted - Aug 8 2018 : 4:50PM There was a lot of Gonzo and 'extreme' stuff in 2003 and still is today. There were a lot more features being made then, now sadly disappearing due to the economics of the industry. Porn of which ever type is really only any good when the people involved on either side of the camera care about the product. [Link]
Digmen1 Member 629 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 23 2018 : 4:36AM I just wish they had HD in 2003 so the hard core stuff would be watchable instead of in 32 hex 240 Also imho Legal Porno are much more hardcore than any studios around in 2003. Facial abuse maybe. But it was just that, facial abuse. Not extreme prolapsing and huge gang bangs and fisting liek LP do. [Link]